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Isn't there a place they could find cheaper tugs? $5000 is a little dear.
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Mar 29, 2024 17:59
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mawarannahr posted:Isn't there a place they could find cheaper tugs? $5000 is a little dear. Something happen in the Stormy Daniels case?
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Mar 29, 2024 18:06
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never change, sa
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Mar 29, 2024 18:09
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Kagrenak posted:Quick lunchtime math from numbers I could find: seems like the tugs cost maybe $5000 average and there are around 300-600 big cargo ship movements in that port in a year (hard to exactly tell what numbers are for what vessel types). The cost estimate for replacement is like $400M so it'd take like 100,000 of those tug fees to reach that cost. So yeah it seems like somewhere on the order of 300 years to reach the same cost. Bar Ran Dun might have a better idea than my quick look though. You’d need to repeat and add up this calculation at all ports with a similar bridge situation tho.
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Mar 29, 2024 18:34
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yronic heroism posted:You’d need to repeat and add up this calculation at all ports with a similar bridge situation tho. Only if you're adding the costs of saving all the other bridges. You have to count tug jobs per bridge.
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Mar 29, 2024 18:42
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Are there any estimates yet for when the replacement bridge will begin erection?
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Mar 29, 2024 18:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Only if you're adding the costs of saving all the other bridges. You have to count tug jobs per bridge. But the cost and benefit nationally/globally is the point. We’re talking about a new rule or at least best practice is for this not to happen again anywhere.
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Mar 29, 2024 18:47
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how many tug jobs are needed per bridge? This could be handy when discussing erection timelines.
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Mar 29, 2024 18:50
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haveblue posted:Are there any estimates yet for when the replacement bridge will begin erection? Press Briefing by Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre, Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg, and Deputy Commandant for Operations for the U.S. Coast Guard Vice Admiral Peter Gautier | The White House www.whitehouse.gov - Wed, 27 Mar 2024 posted:…
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Mar 29, 2024 18:51
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https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1773682369284735076 https://twitter.com/forbesmm/status/1773729463533969906
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Mar 29, 2024 18:52
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mawarannahr posted:Secretary Buttigieg spoke on this Wednesday. The press briefing went on for more than an hour, but to sum it up, it's going to be a long and hard process, to say the least. Most of the nation: 
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Mar 29, 2024 19:00
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haveblue posted:Are there any estimates yet for when the replacement bridge will begin erection? Maybe erection would happen faster if we showed it some pictures of curvy bridges? 
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Mar 29, 2024 19:07
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golden bubble posted:https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1773682369284735076 This story is wild. I buy the argument it advances that the sort of person who battles their way to white house journalism is inherently going to be an ambitious weirdo (or, I suppose, that one Indian-American reporter).
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Mar 29, 2024 19:09
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golden bubble posted:https://twitter.com/samstein/status/1773682369284735076 Gold plates is more than a bit too much for me, but I’d kind of judge someone if they rode on Air Force One and didn’t at least try to steal a pen or something.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:09
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Nervous posted:Maybe erection would happen faster if we showed it some pictures of curvy bridges? That bridge is fake. You can still see the bandages from the implants on the left.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:10
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Following up on Baltimore, the timeline: There was about 90 seconds between people on the ground getting notice and the impact.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:15
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I think it might be time for society to have an earnest conversation about the unreal expectations placed on our bridges and the tugjobs that are performed to maintain these expectations.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:16
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yronic heroism posted:But the cost and benefit nationally/globally is the point. We’re talking about a new rule or at least best practice is for this not to happen again anywhere. Right, but in terms of the value of the rule, you have to count saved bridges against the additional cost in added tug job duration. It's not just the cost of this one collapse, it's thr saved costs of all the bridges that didn't collapse because we all paid for the extra tugging.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:18
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Morrow posted:Following up on Baltimore, the timeline: That’s actually incredibly fast. I’m sure the people in that chain are wishing they could’ve gone even faster, but to go from a problem happening on a boat to a bridge being mostly closed in less than 5 minutes with no warning is incredibly impressive. Most people can’t leave their house in that kind of time.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:23
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yeah jesus thirty one seconds and the pilot had already mayday'd the shore with explicit instructions to close the bridge
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Mar 29, 2024 19:28
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Xiahou Dun posted:Gold plates is more than a bit too much for me, but I’d kind of judge someone if they rode on Air Force One and didn’t at least try to steal a pen or something. It's only human to try to get a souvenir. But there's a difference between the kind of person who sneaks a pen or something that could reasonably missed, and brazenly walking out with so much silverware that every step clanks like a percussion sections.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:30
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I would kind of expect everyone around Trump to also steal everything not nailed down.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:35
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drat why is Biden allowing that to happen.
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Mar 29, 2024 19:46
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https://youtu.be/uErKI0zWgjg?si=3gWvcLQGwA1agyJs
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Mar 29, 2024 19:49
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Staluigi posted:yeah jesus Even more impressive because a lot of those 31 seconds are probably covered by the radio not working because the ship power was out
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Mar 29, 2024 19:51
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haveblue posted:Even more impressive because a lot of those 31 seconds are probably covered by the radio not working because the ship power was out ianabrd but i would assume the pilot has their own communication equipment or something
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Mar 29, 2024 19:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Far longer. They already have to pay the tugs. This would just be the tugs going slightly farther. The consequential costs are also staggering. The RORO and container terminal being closed for a couple of months, pants making GBS threads expensive. Not have a bridge for several years pants making GBS threads expensive. Wreck clearing will be pants shittingly expensive. The ship will be off charter, it’ll have to goto ship yard, the general average claim will take years, expensive as all hell. Tugs are a fart in the wind. Even better they’re stimulative spending. A stimulative fart that the shipping lines would bear. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 20:01
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Staluigi posted:ianabrd but i would assume the pilot has their own communication equipment or something I would also assume that the ship radio must be able to work independently of the general power system exactly for power outages.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:17
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Early on people were mentioning handheld radios, of which the pilot almost certainly would've had one of their own. And it's not like they need to use a lot of power to get the message out, handheld VHF radios can easily be heard clearly a few miles away and can go much farther in the right conditions. I'm sure the ship had higher powered long-range radio systems for communicating while at sea but they probably wouldn't use those close to shore anyway, not least because of potential interference issues with putting that much power out. Also there seem to be standard channels for this kind of thing so you probably don't want your mayday to get picked up in Norfolk or whatever.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:21
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Nenonen posted:I would also assume that the ship radio must be able to work independently of the general power system exactly for power outages. SOLAS convention requires the emergency power source to automatically start and fully power critical systems within 45 seconds. There's no requirement for any truly uninterruptible power supply. I saw elsewhere (the Washington Post I believe) that the pilots bring their own handheld radios for exactly this sort of situation.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:25
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Xiahou Dun posted:Gold plates is more than a bit too much for me, but I’d kind of judge someone if they rode on Air Force One and didn’t at least try to steal a pen or something. You used to see this stuff pop up for sale from time to time. One of the more interesting Ebay auctions I ever saw was for an Air Force One ashtray. Meaning it not only was stolen from AF1, but it was stolen during the Reagan years or earlier. This was circa 2004 or 2005, before counterfeiting these items would be have been easy (or even necessarily worth it).
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Mar 29, 2024 20:25
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Don't those people have phones? smh
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Mar 29, 2024 20:26
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Xerol posted:Early on people were mentioning handheld radios, of which the pilot almost certainly would've had one of their own. And it's not like they need to use a lot of power to get the message out, handheld VHF radios can easily be heard clearly a few miles away and can go much farther in the right conditions. I'm sure the ship had higher powered long-range radio systems for communicating while at sea but they probably wouldn't use those close to shore anyway, not least because of potential interference issues with putting that much power out. Also there seem to be standard channels for this kind of thing so you probably don't want your mayday to get picked up in Norfolk or whatever. There are specific VHF channels for marine emergencies. With a radio tuned to those they could have found out a bit quicker. But it still might have taken a bit to figure out that they needed to get off the bridge.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:28
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The ship would also be helmed by the harbor pilot at that point, so presumably prepared that this might be a possibility and who to contact for an emergency
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Mar 29, 2024 20:32
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Vessel will have charged hand held radios in the bridge, just because and then some required by SOLAS on the bridge stored too.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:57
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Morrow posted:Following up on Baltimore, the timeline: That's impressive, so is the pilot going from the lights going out to figuring they have to make the call to close the bridge in 31 seconds, especially if they had no reason to think everything wasn't normal just beforehand.
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Mar 29, 2024 22:43
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DynamicSloth posted:That's impressive, so is the pilot going from the lights going out to figuring they have to make the call to close the bridge in 31 seconds, especially if they had no reason to think everything wasn't normal just beforehand. From what it seems, from the initial mayday call everything went as well as it could have. There's the obvious exception of the workers on the bridge but given the timeframe I don't think there's any way they could have been saved, even if they had also been able to receive the mayday call and immediately leave.
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Mar 29, 2024 23:16
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Yeah, the only reason everyone else got off the bridge is because they were already in the process of driving across it. The bridge is more than a mile long, so the last cars that got on before it closed probably just got off it in the minute+ that they had. Like maybe they could've run to their personal vehicles, jumped in, and drove out of danger in two minutes, but for that timeline to work they would've had to be very high up the chain of messaging.
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Mar 29, 2024 23:23
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Kagrenak posted:Quick lunchtime math from numbers I could find: seems like the tugs cost maybe $5000 average and there are around 300-600 big cargo ship movements in that port in a year (hard to exactly tell what numbers are for what vessel types). The cost estimate for replacement is like $400M so it'd take like 100,000 of those tug fees to reach that cost. So yeah it seems like somewhere on the order of 300 years to reach the same cost. Bar Ran Dun might have a better idea than my quick look though. I gotta say 400mil for a whole new bridge seems cheap
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Mar 29, 2024 23:33
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SixFigureSandwich posted:I gotta say 400mil for a whole new bridge seems cheap yeah that's only like 4 F-35s (I know that's not how budgets work but still)
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Mar 29, 2024 23:40
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