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Spanish Matlock posted:That's the thing, though, they kill a bunch of bug people in a fight with other Viltrumites. They definitely don't care about killing them, but they also don't go out of their way to do it. We kinda do. In the prison (I think it was the prison in the previous episode) and the supplementary bridge crew on the ship at the end of this episode, there’s a bunch of reddish aliens with blue skin? Beefy looking types doing all of the literal grunt work. From the looks they were aiming at the Viltrumites, they came across as true believer types. Servant races, who serve because they’ve been raised to.
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Mar 31, 2024 06:04
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Let's also not forget that, despite serving as perhaps the most efficient hero on Earth for a long stretch of time, Nolan's go-to strategy for assimilating Earth into the Viltrum Empire wasn't the prospect of some kind of alliance using goodwill he built up. It was executing the world's greatest defenders and then keeping tabs on the backup team just in case he needed to off them, too.
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Mar 31, 2024 06:17
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Spanish Matlock posted:
What do you think makes a fascist a fascist? The uniform? Fascists are fascists because of what they do, or at least want to do. That's what an ideology is.
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Mar 31, 2024 10:12
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Spanish Matlock posted:fascists aren't bad This is the heart of that post.
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Mar 31, 2024 12:50
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"Fascism" isn't even the most directly relevant idea here.* The pitch Anissa is making is very basic civilizing-mission colonialism. You will still hear people today arguing that it was fine that the British Empire conquered and exploited people around the world because being subjects of the empire modernized them and raised their standard of living. *Except in as much as you might describe fascism as colonial rule practiced in the metropole.
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Mar 31, 2024 12:57
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It is fully within Viltrum's capabilities to be a force for good in the galaxy. Like Nolan's original pitch to Mark. Instead they choose violence and demand subservience to reap the benefits of their civilization. I don't... I don't get how this is not a bad thing. a seagull fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 15:22
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GunnerJ posted:"Fascism" isn't even the most directly relevant idea here.* The pitch Anissa is making is very basic civilizing-mission colonialism. You will still hear people today arguing that it was fine that the British Empire conquered and exploited people around the world because being subjects of the empire modernized them and raised their standard of living. Yeah if you step back from the aliens for a moment it is actually ridiculously problematic to argue that a colonizing power is justified if the colonized people are bad. It's literally the same as "everyone was just a bunch of savages before civilization rolled in". mycot fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 15:31
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Interesting that this show and 3 Body Problem end up sharing a theme.
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Mar 31, 2024 15:56
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a seagull posted:It is fully within Viltrum's capabilities to be a force for good in the galaxy. Like Nolan's original pitch to Mark. Instead they choose violence and demand subservience to reap the benefits of their civilization. Have you heard of America? Russia? China? That's what complicates the allegory here. We can't "step back from the aliens" because then we're just talking about actual fascists/imperialists/etc. I'm very glad that everyone here seems like they would agree that fascists are bad. That means we're already in a very select group as far as Americans, many Europeans, and definitely many schoolchildren in Asia are concerned. Are the Viltrumites literally fascists or colonizers? No. They're alien space gods. They're serving as an allegory for fascists and colonizers. That means we need to see the camps, so to speak, so we understand why they are worse for Earth than its own homegrown fascists who are definitely fascists and race scientists and religious zealots and all those other things. I think there is a strong argument that "fascists from space without human prejudices are better than facists from earth with all human prejudices". All the show has to do is demonstrate that the Viltrumites are tyrants to their occupied worlds and bam problem solved. Like we saw the other dimensions where Omniman and Invincible are evil, but they were doing the same kind of poo poo America already does, which is undestandably very bad but it's not worse than the status quo which complicates the allegory. If your takeaway from a piece of media is "Oh I recognize that those look like Nazis therefore I hate them" you don't hate fascism you hate Hugo Boss. TLDR: My point is not "fascism is great". My point is that you have to demonstrate why space fascism is worse than the fascism we already have.
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Mar 31, 2024 19:05
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Let's also not forget that, despite serving as perhaps the most efficient hero on Earth for a long stretch of time, Nolan's go-to strategy for assimilating Earth into the Viltrum Empire wasn't the prospect of some kind of alliance using goodwill he built up. It was executing the world's greatest defenders and then keeping tabs on the backup team just in case he needed to off them, too. That was mostly because of Mark. All of this, in fact, is mostly because Mark exists. If he'd never had Mark, Nolan would have been able to simply cultivate the planet for Viltrumite rule over time. People don't live that long, in a few generations Omni-Man being the singular ruler of Earth wouldn't just be accepted, it would be the norm. Mark complicates things because of how long he will live. That's why Omni-Man was so upset when he got his powers, because he now had to work on an accelerated, messy timescale.
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Mar 31, 2024 19:45
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Adder Moray posted:That was mostly because of Mark. One of those people was The Immortal, who is both literally immortal and the man who freed the slaves. That seems like a way bigger wrench in Nolan's plans than his son. No matter what, Nolan's plan leads to the biggest superhero group of all time exploding, and while that's probably less messy than having to kill all of them it's still going to cause a lot of fuss. And again, we see what happens when even a single person refuses Viltrumite occupation; they get dealt with, painfully and decisively. I think the issue with Mark was less because of his long lifespan, and more because his Viltrumite powers would be of great interest to the empire. Nolan was blatantly kicking the can down the road when it came to pulling the trigger. Once he realized Earth was the key to a new Viltrumite golden age, single-handedly solving the issues of their tiny population and birth rate, he couldn't justify doing that anymore. Whether that was due to his loyalty to Viltrum, or due to fear of what they'd do to "his" home if he didn't serve it to them on a silver platter, who can fully say? The Bee fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 20:05
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You might want to spoiler mark that latter part, this wasn't spelt out yet in the show.
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Mar 31, 2024 20:11
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kiminewt posted:You might want to spoiler mark that latter part, this wasn't spelt out yet in the show. Was it not? I thought it was explicitly mentioned in the Season 1 finale that they purged a ton of their population, to the point where once they started expanding it was getting harder to maintain their empire. That's why they switched strategies in the first place instead of just angrily flying into any planet in their way. And since the Viltrumites we've seen seem a lot more accepting of Mark than Nolan implies they would be of Oliver, it seems he "passes" enough for it to not be a huge issue. The Bee fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 21:57
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There's been subtle hints (and, of course, anyone who's read the comics knows what's coming) but nothing has been explicitly spelled out outside of Thadeus being all "oh poo poo, there are more Viltrumite rebels like me? This changes things!"
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Apr 1, 2024 00:48
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The only thing I wonder about now is why viltrumites need a space ship.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:49
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ikanreed posted:The only thing I wonder about now is why viltrumites need a space ship. It's where they keep their prisoners.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:56
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No pockets in their skin tight outfits.
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Apr 1, 2024 01:57
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ikanreed posted:The only thing I wonder about now is why viltrumites need a space ship. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
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Apr 1, 2024 02:00
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I remember a similar conversation happening in the Peacemaker thread how we should let the brain eating butterflies take over society, and it has the same fundamental flaw of putting absolute trust in people who have already demonstrated incredibly poor judgement.
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Apr 1, 2024 02:29
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The bugs are gross and take over the brain though and kill the host
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Apr 1, 2024 04:29
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ikanreed posted:The only thing I wonder about now is why viltrumites need a space ship. Convenience. Beyond carrying around supplies and prisoners in large quantities, you can also probably just set the ship to auto-pilot and sleep instead of having to manually fly around.
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Apr 1, 2024 04:57
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Convenience. Beyond carrying around supplies and prisoners in large quantities, you can also probably just set the ship to auto-pilot and sleep instead of having to manually fly around. That and while it never comes up as a big issue for most of them, Viltrumites can't breathe in space, they can just  while they fly to the next world with an atmosphere.
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Apr 1, 2024 06:40
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I can hold my breath for a long time... haha... you know, just for laughs... haha...
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Apr 1, 2024 07:17
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GateOfD posted:The bugs are gross and take over the brain though and kill the host Let the butterflies take over your brain and see if you still say that
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Apr 1, 2024 12:55
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The same reason humans use cars, I would assume.
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Apr 1, 2024 14:23
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Collateral posted:The same reason humans use cars, I would assume. They're scared of minorities?
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Apr 1, 2024 15:49
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TaurusTorus posted:I remember a similar conversation happening in the Peacemaker thread how we should let the brain eating butterflies take over society, and it has the same fundamental flaw of putting absolute trust in people who have already demonstrated incredibly poor judgement. Hah - I was thinking the same thing. I’m fairly sure the pro butterfly guy was legit and not just trolling tho unlike the “Stormfront is NOT a nazi” guy from the Boyz thread. Guy from the Boyz thread was more than likely a nazi too, but his main goal was trolling. Poor butterfly guy just wanted a friend…in his head. Collateral posted:The same reason humans use cars, I would assume. ikanreed posted:They're scared of minorities? loving lol.
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Apr 1, 2024 16:12
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DogsInSpace! posted:Hah - I was thinking the same thing. I’m fairly sure the pro butterfly guy was legit and not just trolling tho unlike the “Stormfront is NOT a nazi” guy from the Boyz thread. Guy from the Boyz thread was more than likely a nazi too, but his main goal was trolling. Poor butterfly guy just wanted a friend…in his head. They thought Stormfront wasn't what now.
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Apr 1, 2024 16:45
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Dawgstar posted:They thought Stormfront wasn't what now. Like, up until they find a big box of Stormfront's old poo poo that shows her hanging out with the Nazis, that guy was in the thread every week like, "There isn't enough evidence to say she's a Nazi. Maybe she's just a jerk." People were using "Nazi" to mean like groyper troll in the thread, but it was  that she was literally a Nazi.
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Apr 1, 2024 16:57
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As you can tell from the name, the show was not even a little bit subtle about hinting at it.
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Apr 1, 2024 17:41
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PostNouveau posted:Like, up until they find a big box of Stormfront's old poo poo that shows her hanging out with the Nazis, that guy was in the thread every week like, "There isn't enough evidence to say she's a Nazi. Maybe she's just a jerk." Some people might have been. Those of us who had read the comics were using "Nazi" to mean "Nazi", because the character named after the Nazi web forum was created by Nazi scientists during World War II and was indeed a devoted fan of the most famous resident of 1 Bunkerstraße, Berlin. Yet as I recall, even after we saw the pics of Stormfront shaking hands with Hitler some of these dipshits were still saying "well it's not like Captain America believes in everything the government do!"
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Apr 1, 2024 17:49
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The most leeway I can give people is that I don't know how infamous the Stormfront website is in every country.
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Apr 1, 2024 17:54
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RareAcumen posted:The most leeway I can give people is that I don't know how infamous the Stormfront website is in every country. Well people don't need to go to forums like that anymore and hide their identities when they can just post on social media under their real name instead.
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Apr 2, 2024 23:39
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Did Vidor and Thula survive the fight with Nolan previously? We see that Viltrunites are incredibly resilient. In addition to being virtually impervious to injury from ion cannons and whatnot, even grievous wounds seem survivable. They also seem to have technology that can allow them to recover from severe injuries.
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Apr 3, 2024 01:16
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Panfilo posted:Did Vidor and Thula survive the fight with Nolan previously? We see that Viltrunites are incredibly resilient. In addition to being virtually impervious to injury from ion cannons and whatnot, even grievous wounds seem survivable. They also seem to have technology that can allow them to recover from severe injuries. Probably, neither of their life threatening injuries looked as bad as Lucian’s and he was seen being carted off in what looked like medical tech.
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Apr 3, 2024 01:35
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if they can survive having all their guts punched out they're probably going to be ok. edit i read a book with space aliens that could regenerate their heads but they got a new personality in the process. uber_stoat fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 02:58
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I don't know, Vidor got his head smashed pretty badly. Gonna take all the kings horses to put him back together again.
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Apr 3, 2024 03:36
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We never get clear rules to what they can and can't take, just imagine each of them as a separate Wolverine who's survivability is based on Plot.
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Apr 3, 2024 04:20
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uber_stoat posted:edit i read a book with space aliens that could regenerate their heads but they got a new personality in the process. That's why you keep a backup brain in your chest.
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Apr 3, 2024 04:26
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Just assume it's like Mortal Kombat in that most things are survivable except severe dismemberment. That usually does the trick.
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Apr 3, 2024 04:28
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