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i hope the dsa can continue their good work of supporting real socialists like Bernard Sanders and AOC in their work of keeping Joe Biden in office.
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Mar 30, 2024 15:01
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A lot of business unions have this problem where elected leaders, managers, and even a lot of the staff think that they know how to "organize" because they've run a meeting before and so there's no need to pay people just to do that, that would be silly.
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Mar 30, 2024 15:04
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Id 100% start going to meetings and paying my dues again if it was a Socialist Rotary Club. Especially if we get tiny cars and wear ushankas while driving them
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Mar 30, 2024 15:23
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Honky Mao posted:I'm awarding a point to the anarchists
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Mar 30, 2024 15:34
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Smythe posted:the catering bill isnt really that big in my professional nonprofit worker opinion. plenty of other more egregious sins to get "het up" about. Give me a job touching your donor management system
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Mar 30, 2024 17:50
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jarofpiss posted:shocking that the pandemic created problems for organizing, better go ahead and commit as many ulp violations as possible in 2 months to dismantle the org infrastructure actually, the pandemic created a large membership growth and a virtual convention in 2021 that cut expenditures significantly and the previous NPC then budgeted as if that was sustainable so hired a bunch of staff that were more than the org could afford.
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Mar 30, 2024 17:59
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Pomeroy posted:I'm surprised to see them named here, as far as I was aware, their SoCal supporters had all split to form the "Internationalist Group," who I've had the displeasure to encounter twice, once when they tried to hijack the Q&A at an ANSWER Coalition Korea Unification conference to denounce the WPK as capitulationist, and once when one of them tried to call me an antisemite (self-hating, I suppose) for disagreeing with their delusional worker-ist line on Palestine. See this is why I don't read books People tell me "Oh you should read theory" and it's like, why so I can know what an ortho-Trot is? What if I read it wrong and become an ortho-Trot? PostNouveau has issued a correction as of 18:03 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 18:01
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PostNouveau posted:See this is why I don't read books
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Mar 30, 2024 18:06
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PostNouveau posted:See this is why I don't read books
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Mar 30, 2024 18:13
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fermun posted:actually, the pandemic created a large membership growth and a virtual convention in 2021 that cut expenditures significantly and the previous NPC then budgeted as if that was sustainable so hired a bunch of staff that were more than the org could afford. This does not seem to be addressing the ULP stuff.
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Mar 30, 2024 18:26
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PostNouveau posted:See this is why I don't read books I appreciate the bit, but I really don't think anyone could come to their views independently, without being coached as an impressionable student. Even a person had only ever read their bible, Trotsky's "Transitional Program," would be extremely unlikely to interpret it as describing a world economic and political situation identical to that of the present day.* *ie, they justify an ineffective focus on trying to poach members from relatively tiny organizations today, on the grounds that Trotsky wrote, in the 30s, that all the most advanced workers were already in the official Communist Parties. Pomeroy has issued a correction as of 19:20 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 18:59
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Pomeroy posted:I appreciate the bit, but I really don't think anyone could come to their views independently, without being coached as an impressionable student. I'm gonna become an ortho trot just to prove you wrong
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Mar 30, 2024 19:12
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Second Hand Meat Mouth posted:I'm gonna become an ortho trot just to prove you wrong That'd be a good bit, they do like doing silly things to try and prove MLs wrong.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:26
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The DSA, or as I like to call them the Domesticated Society of Anarchists 
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Mar 30, 2024 19:56
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Jon Pod Van Damm posted:The DSA, or as I like to call them the Domesticated Society of Anarchists makes sense why membership is down - they are all aging out
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Mar 30, 2024 20:05
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So how did this NPC get elected? Seems like they have at least some good ideas (pro China) but are just wildly impractical, is that a fair read?Pomeroy posted:denounce the WPK as capitulationist, What in tarnation?! Not sure what their general point was in making GBS threads up your meeting but it's possible they may have been ahead of the curve as the WPK now opposes peaceful reunification. fermun posted:yes, you said british. that's like saying a south african branch was racist or an australian branch liked beer It's a small idpol niggle (but what better thread for that) but I'm pretty sick of seeing "South African" as a synonym for "white South African"
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Mar 30, 2024 22:22
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Weka posted:It's a small idpol niggle (but what better thread for that) but I'm pretty sick of seeing "South African" as a synonym for "white South African"
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Mar 30, 2024 22:31
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https://twitter.com/cleanbreaknow/status/1774126511534043370
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Mar 30, 2024 22:48
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lemme guess, WSWS member right
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Mar 30, 2024 22:55
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lol
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Mar 30, 2024 22:57
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Weka posted:
Essentially, the DPRK’s willingness to discuss one country / two systems or negotiate over weapons testing was supposed to prove that the political leadership were opportunists, plotting to betray the Korean revolution and sell the country to US imperialism. The panel and the audience were, shall we say, unreceptive to this line of argument.
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Mar 30, 2024 23:24
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oof
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Mar 30, 2024 23:26
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lmao i read this bottom then top
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Mar 30, 2024 23:29
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lemme guess, WSWS member right Technically not, but basically yes. From what I understand there are at least 3, and likely more US Trotskyist organizations, with seemingly indistinguishable politics, that take this line.
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Mar 30, 2024 23:29
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Second Hand Meat Mouth posted:lol right on cue: I’ve heard of “I am Spartacus”, but “you are Spartacus”?
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Mar 30, 2024 23:33
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uh
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Mar 31, 2024 00:17
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DSA nambla caucus
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Mar 31, 2024 00:27
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Libertarian socialism
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Mar 31, 2024 00:57
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I'm assuming this is the "Alan R." that got thrown out per the other screenshot 
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Mar 31, 2024 02:01
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Ytlaya posted:This does not seem to be addressing the ULP stuff. Weka posted:So how did this NPC get elected? Seems like they have at least some good ideas (pro China) but are just wildly impractical, is that a fair read? this npc came into ther term with a massive deficit and without full accounting information and the books have basically had to be redone from scratch, so it was 3 months of getting things up to date then an "oh poo poo" moment in january. the npc minority (comprised of socialist majority caucus and groundwork) has said that they do not want to compromise on the number of layoffs and are only going to advocate for 0 layoffs and moralize the issue to win a larger share of npc seats at the 2025 convention, which has caused the npc majority (comprised of red star, marxist unity group, and bread and roses) to have to decide amongst themselves what is needed to make sure there is still an organization in 2 years, which has been met with accusations that they're just doing whatever they want without regard to compromise either. one member of the npc minority did finally offer a compromise at the thursday night meeting of 6 layoffs instead of 8, but that would force a virtual convention in 2025 or project a very optimistic viewpoint of member retention and fundraising growth, and since the layoffs take 45 days to actually go into effect, there's time to see what the fundraising from the last month actually were before the layoffs happen so time to cancel a couple of layoffs if needed. Weka posted:It's a small idpol niggle (but what better thread for that) but I'm pretty sick of seeing "South African" as a synonym for "white South African" Pentecoastal Elites posted:DSA nambla caucus the sparticists do actually support nambla, and people were worried about kicking some people out over "substantial political disagreement" in the dsa bylaws over something dsa has never actually had to say before, so the three caucuses that want to get rid of the "no demcent members" clause in the bylaws are using the "no demcent members" clause to get rid of these particular people as quickly as possible without arguing about anything else in the bylaws, though i think being pro-pedophilia should automatically count as having a "substantial political disagreement" with the org even if the org has never outright stated that it is against pedophilia fermun has issued a correction as of 04:25 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 04:18
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fermun posted:even if the org has never outright stated that it is against pedophilia drat, wonder why that is...
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Mar 31, 2024 04:28
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Second Hand Meat Mouth posted:I'm gonna become an ortho trot just to prove you wrong
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Mar 31, 2024 05:07
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https://twitter.com/cleanbreaknow/status/1769871156612407544 https://twitter.com/cleanbreaknow/status/1770536971812651015 https://twitter.com/cleanbreaknow/status/1773023933932933640 lmao
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Mar 31, 2024 05:43
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rudecyrus posted:https://twitter.com/cleanbreaknow/status/1769871156612407544 drat I guess the pedo is at least right about something
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Mar 31, 2024 06:07
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Anyone who lmaos at the perfectly responsible actions of my virtuous org is hereby guilty of revisionism
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Mar 31, 2024 06:25
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fermun posted:a lot of people join dsa pretty politically incoherent in their ideology, Hey thanks for taking the time to respond Off hand how many hours would you say being in the npc takes? Do you think there is something about how the dsa superstructure (like the process for electing the npc and the processes by which it functions) is set up that makes it prone to these sort of internecine conflicts? === Especially given this support for PSL, I am forced to wonder if these sparticists are an op. Of course idiots abound in nature too...
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Apr 2, 2024 04:04
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Weka posted:Hey thanks for taking the time to respond so i've known two npc members personally. on average in a normal week, maybe 5 to 10 hours, in weeks where there are npc meetings (usually once a month), double that, in times where there is some kind of crisis or appearance of one then somewhere around 30-40 hours a week. prior to this current npc, to save on some of that time, some of the npc would have the staff assist with various things up to asking them to help set npc meeting agendas and write the proposals that would be voted on in the meetings, which hasn't happened with the current npc both because they were opposed to that entire idea and the national director that was helping with that in the past, maria svart, has retired (her original date of retirement was supposed to be october 13th but she stayed on until january even though she had really checked out because she didn't want to have her retirement announcement immediately after the dsa statement in support of palestine). i think that it's the tyranny of the structurelessness that causes these dsa conflicts. dsa saw its biggest recruitment drives being pushed through social media, primarily twitter, while the pre-2016 bernie growth of dsa was woefully lacking in ways to communicate internally, especially between chapters. it's my opinion that this resulted in individual chapters often becoming strongholds of specific caucuses that had good or charismatic organizers and no way for people in minority caucuses or uncaucused members to really air their voice to the rest of dsa except through public posts on twitter. even when dsa released their members-only forum in 2019 it had a hard time catching on and many people still refuse to use it because they see it as dominated by particular caucuses, so they post on twitter and make the entire drama of things worse than they really are or need to be. i also think that dsa has a real problem with it from the fact that the majority of people in dsa are in their 20s and 30s and they haven't ever had real political disagreements with people before where they still majorly agreed enough overall to want to keep working together, so individuals often pick up on minor differences and exaggerate them and spread the small differences around to the rest of their caucus. another thing that happens is that some people just don't and won't ever like each other on a personal level but because it is happening in the context of a political organization, they assign political reasons to their dislike instead of just admitting that they dont get along personally. if dsa were to ever have a stronger national structure and better member-to-member communications between chapters, i think a lot of these conflicts would be less severe, but i've actually been largely encouraged by how most have acted during this budget crisis. we're generally yelling at each other instead of just sniping past each other on twitter and i strongly believe dsa will get through this without too much more trouble so i'm hopeful people will just see each other as posting enemies instead of as people they can't work with
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Apr 2, 2024 08:14
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fermun posted:if dsa were to ever have a stronger national structure and better member-to-member communications between chapters, i think a lot of these conflicts would be less severe, but i've actually been largely encouraged by how most have acted during this budget crisis. we're generally yelling at each other instead of just sniping past each other on twitter and i strongly believe dsa will get through this without too much more trouble so i'm hopeful people will just see each other as posting enemies instead of as people they can't work with in my stupid little corner of local organizing & politics ive found that these issues are ideally resolved by getting drunk together irl and are simply artifacts of Online, which is imo Turbo Aids to politics.
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Apr 2, 2024 09:58
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fermun posted:so i've known two npc members personally. on average in a normal week, maybe 5 to 10 hours, in weeks where there are npc meetings (usually once a month), double that, in times where there is some kind of crisis or appearance of one then somewhere around 30-40 hours a week. prior to this current npc, to save on some of that time, some of the npc would have the staff assist with various things up to asking them to help set npc meeting agendas and write the proposals that would be voted on in the meetings, which hasn't happened with the current npc both because they were opposed to that entire idea and the national director that was helping with that in the past, maria svart, has retired (her original date of retirement was supposed to be october 13th but she stayed on until january even though she had really checked out because she didn't want to have her retirement announcement immediately after the dsa statement in support of palestine). I don't think the conflicts are about age, or any other psychologizing thing. When I joined in 2016 at the very first surge, DSA was already pretty young. But it was mostly like, community college drop outs who understood DSA worked well supporting other orgs rather than having to be the be all and end all. What happened was that with the success of AOC, of Chapo, and of a bunch of DSA related people it attracted the sort of striver that, wittingly or not, is all about self advancement. So I left because that is when DSA started to take all your energy and direct it at internal petty bullshit drama.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:50
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massive lol that right after people complain about the anti demcent rules they get a perfect demonstration why they're in place
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