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welp that'll show me for giving microsoft the benefit of the doubt
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Apr 7, 2024 17:29
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repiv posted:to be fair those apps do rely on hacky patches which might stop working after a major windows update Exactly. The latter. Microsoft needs answers to the add-ons, not just block them.
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Apr 7, 2024 18:14
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HalloKitty posted:Exactly. The latter. Microsoft needs answers to the add-ons, not just block them. The answer to the add-ons would be providing a stable API to users to customize aspects of Explorer and the way it presents itself - window decorations, buttons, and other functionality. But as was discussed pages ago, they don’t want to because Microsoft insists upon clamping down on the shell, both for uniformity and so they can do things like embed ads, change the Address Bar to show off OneDrive capabilities, and never stop hoping the 14,000th effort to remind people Edge exists will finally pay off, all without users being able to steer away from those anti-features.
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Apr 7, 2024 19:48
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Klyith posted:if that were the case, they'd be looking at the version of the app to block: I’ve never seen this sort of info before but don’t those screenshots literally show that the block applies up to some version number? So all the devs need to do is to rebuild with a higher version number, after hopefully fixing whatever bugs are causing MS to block them? The dev is focusing on the *startallback* entry while ignoring the very next line that says “block up to version 5.x.y.z” And MS allows devs to subscribe to crash reports for their apps. I don’t know if it’s their responsibility to be contacting everyone whose apps are unstable or not, but I’d imagine if I was building software that relied on mucking about with internal undocumented operating system data it would be in my best interest to keep track of if my software is breaking users machines or not. People are going to respond to this saying that MS added the app to their blocklist so they could have contacted the dev at the same time. I’m pretty sure that block list is a) huge and b) derived from crash report telemetry which just has raw executable and process info in it, which doesn’t contain helpful info like the authors email address.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:45
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beuges posted:I’ve never seen this sort of info before but don’t those screenshots literally show that the block applies up to some version number? So all the devs need to do is to rebuild with a higher version number, after hopefully fixing whatever bugs are causing MS to block them? The dev is focusing on the *startallback* entry while ignoring the very next line that says “block up to version 5.x.y.z” The first screenshot shows a version-specific block that's used for safety reasons. The second screenshot shows a block that just checks for executable name and does not check version at all, which is what's in effect now.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:53
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I'm gonna bet it's because it's a russian guy
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Apr 7, 2024 21:00
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Arivia posted:The first screenshot shows a version-specific block that's used for safety reasons. The second screenshot shows a block that just checks for executable name and does not check version at all, which is what's in effect now. When every version of an app (one that relies on undocumented apis) leads to crashes it safer to block by file name and not bothering with tens of specific version blocks.
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Apr 7, 2024 21:00
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beuges posted:I’ve never seen this sort of info before but don’t those screenshots literally show that the block applies up to some version number? So all the devs need to do is to rebuild with a higher version number, after hopefully fixing whatever bugs are causing MS to block them? The dev is focusing on the *startallback* entry while ignoring the very next line that says “block up to version 5.x.y.z” The left side is startisback, the previous version for win10. I'd guess that this is an example of how previously MS has done blocking of old problematic versions when they broke an update. The right side, with no version number, is how the current block is being applied to startallback. No version info. (Yeah it's confusing as just a single tweet, because twitter loving sucks now. I actually had to log into musk's shithole to get the rest of the context when I first posted it. If you develop software get on mastodon or something!) And sure, it's totally possible that this half-assed block is just for MS's own convenience while debugging the RTM version of 24H2 where this is in effect. The actual release of 24H2 isn't for months and this could totally vanish. But it's yet more MS half-assing of anything that's not AI bullshit. The AI bullshit is also half-assed but that's just the fundamental nature of this AI tech. MikusR posted:When every version of an app (one that relies on undocumented apis) leads to crashes it safer to block by file name and not bothering with tens of specific version blocks. Weird, all the people saying you can make it work by renaming the exe don't add "and then it crashes!"
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Apr 7, 2024 21:04
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It would have been nice if at some point in the 2.5 years since Windows 11 was released, the company behind it that collects $220bn of revenue each year had assigned a team to "letting you move the taskbar".
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Apr 7, 2024 21:30
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Man, I'm still on 22H2, W11 never gave me the option to upgrade lol
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Apr 7, 2024 21:51
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Cross-Section posted:Man, I'm still on 22H2, W11 never gave me the option to upgrade lol Is your CPU not officially supported by 11? I only found out that windows update won't do the big upgrades when I noticed my surface was still on 21H2 lol
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Apr 7, 2024 22:11
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What does startisback do that everyone wants anyway? I basically have zero interaction with the start menu so genuine question
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Apr 7, 2024 22:17
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Skarsnik posted:What does startisback do that everyone wants anyway? Are you really asking about startisback, or did you mean startallback? Because startallback is what people are actually concerned about, the Win11-specific one that's going to be blocked regardless of version number. It lets you use a sane start menu instead of the awful Windows 11 one. It also lets you show text in taskbar items, like in the old days, and/or use less huge icons. These are options Win11 straight up doesn't support. Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 22:29
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I use neither so assumed they did similar things, but i meant the one being discussed
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Apr 7, 2024 22:31
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Skarsnik posted:What does startisback do that everyone wants anyway? startallback lets me have a win 11 centered, win7 styled taskbar; windows 10 start menu and explorer ribbons; with win 11 notifs
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Apr 7, 2024 22:39
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Are you really asking about startisback, or did you mean startallback? Because startallback is what people are actually concerned about, the Win11-specific one that's going to be blocked regardless of version number. 
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Apr 7, 2024 22:51
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kirbysuperstar posted:Is your CPU not officially supported by 11? I only found out that windows update won't do the big upgrades when I noticed my surface was still on 21H2 lol I have a 5800X3D which is supported. I do have StartAllBack running (I use it mainly for the explorer ribbons) but I doubt it's actually preventing system updates. This is what my Update screen looks like lol 
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Apr 7, 2024 22:54
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This wasn't available at release. Not actually sure when they patched it in. Glad they did, though.
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Apr 7, 2024 22:57
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Blue Footed Booby posted:This wasn't available at release. Not actually sure when they patched it in. Glad they did, though. True
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Apr 7, 2024 22:59
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Blue Footed Booby posted:
Ah OK, I guess I'm not really fussed about any of that
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Apr 7, 2024 23:08
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Maybe its because I've been a cog in various corporations in some kinda software capacity most of my career is why Im neutral to postivie about w11? Like windows launching with features missing I'm like oh darn and then I proceed to use actual nightmare software from hell
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Apr 7, 2024 23:16
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Blue Footed Booby posted:This wasn't available at release. Not actually sure when they patched it in. Glad they did, though. Yeah, I was using explorerpatcher for a while (and having it cause crashes after updates occasionally), but some team at Microsoft apparently got the hint and at least partially unfucked the taskbar and start button so it is easier to tolerate and I don't need or use explorerpatcher anymore. The action center from 10 is still superior to the notification slider in 11, the clear notifications button being moved to the top of the screen is a UX change that seems to be the whole pattern of Windows 11: seemingly random and incomprehensible. Here is hoping a quick turnaround to Windows 12 that will hopefully be more like 10.
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Apr 7, 2024 23:20
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Indiana_Krom posted:more like 10. please no, 10 was an apology for 8. And there was nothing wrong with 7. Y'all are crazy
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Apr 7, 2024 23:26
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Vic posted:Like windows launching with features missing I'm like oh darn and then I proceed to use actual nightmare software from hell Like Teams (New (school or work)), yeah. I of course also use it to run all sorts of software and it mostly stays out of the way. But the shell is just what everyone interacts with all the time so its really bizarre that they just removed functionality, refuse to implement it, and then sabotage 3rd party solutions. It's a huge complex system made up of probably billions of lines of code to make it all work, but let you move the task bar? gently caress you!
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Apr 7, 2024 23:27
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mobby_6kl posted:Like Teams (New (school or work)), yeah. I ran the side taskbar since windows 95 until windows 11. It wasn't a big deal for me. 
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Apr 7, 2024 23:38
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Cross-Section posted:I have a 5800X3D which is supported. I do have StartAllBack running (I use it mainly for the explorer ribbons) but I doubt it's actually preventing system updates. Well that's odd! I guess if you want to update you can just use the MCT but.. Yeah, weird huh
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Apr 7, 2024 23:42
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Vic posted:please no, 10 was an apology for 8. And there was nothing wrong with 7. Y'all are crazy No, I also liked 7 better. Just hoping 12 is a rollback of at least the majority of poo poo that is wrong with 11.
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Apr 7, 2024 23:43
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Basically, every other major Windows version is good.
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Apr 7, 2024 23:45
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In the course of checking which features had been added back in, I've discovered that the control panel doesn't honor dark mode if startallback is disabled. 
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Apr 7, 2024 23:46
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HalloKitty posted:Exactly. The latter. Microsoft needs answers to the add-ons, not just block them. I don't have a strong longing for the Win7-style start* menu, but it is truly pathetic that this little app can give you consistent dark mode across Explorer when MS hasn't been able to do that for what, 10 years now? *There is a big advantage for it though - the ability to perform the full explorer-context menu actions on start menu search results, up to and including drag and drop. Win10/11 is open file location, and launch.
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Apr 8, 2024 00:53
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Thanks Ants posted:It would have been nice if at some point in the 2.5 years since Windows 11 was released, the company behind it that collects $220bn of revenue each year had assigned a team to "letting you move the taskbar". How about 'no', with a dose of, 'And if you try, we'll probably just block your app because how dare you'.
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Apr 8, 2024 01:11
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If start all back stops working, I’m gonna be pissed,
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Apr 8, 2024 01:35
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KDE is such a better desktop than Windows it's not even funny. Microsoft cribbed from KDE a lot with Windows 10, but Windows 11 seems like they were trying to copy the Chromebook experience while also being more like Apple, resulting in what I think can reasonably be called, in my humble estimation, an abomination.
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Apr 8, 2024 01:43
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kde is pretty good though plasma 6 is uhhhh buggy granted I'm saying that in the windows thread,
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Apr 8, 2024 01:49
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Vic posted:Maybe its because I've been a cog in various corporations in some kinda software capacity most of my career is why Im neutral to postivie about w11? This is a totally healthy attitude and in the long run probably much saner -- forcing yourself to be adaptable to the changes means you aren't relying on weird software to still have a win95 start menu in 2024. And liking the 11 UI is just fine. I'm way more on this for what I'd call the "user rights" issues. That's the poo poo that is bad for everyone regardless of preferences, and it's the area that MS has been on a real downslope recently. MS deciding what software people can or can't run is hosed. IMO even the acceptable type of compatibility block should be as limited as possible, and MS should be making all reasonable attempts to notify devs what's up. (And even the acceptable block should have an opt-out. Nobody who runs this poo poo is confused about why their system is less stable and complaining to MS.)
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Apr 8, 2024 02:02
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Klyith posted:MS deciding what software people can or can't run is hosed.
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Apr 8, 2024 02:21
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Klyith posted:(And even the acceptable block should have an opt-out. Nobody who runs this poo poo is confused about why their system is less stable and complaining to MS.) Hard disagree. Every other article or thread about W11 invariably has a “you should install start*back immediately to unfuck the idiot pathetic win11 taskbar, trust me don’t even bother with that standard garbage, you’ll thank me later for keeping your sanity” comment somewhere. And loads of clueless people are just gonna install it based on recommendation without even knowing what it does even if they would be perfectly happy with the default taskbar. They will absolutely not realise that this software that was recommended to them by the trusty commenters on the internet is what is causing their system to crash all the time, and they will guaranteed assume it’s just crappy microshaft with another version of winblows.
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Apr 8, 2024 05:28
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The funny thing is in Win 7/10 I would hack in an empty taskbar object on the left in order to center my taskbar icons, so I got the bizarro experience of everyone else who wants everything exactly the same as it was in 2003. I don't really care about the start menu itself as long as there are no ads or annoying animated tiles that pop up, because i just press the Win key and start typing.
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Apr 8, 2024 05:38
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beuges posted:Hard disagree. Every other article or thread about W11 invariably has a “you should install start*back immediately to unfuck the idiot pathetic win11 taskbar, trust me don’t even bother with that standard garbage, you’ll thank me later for keeping your sanity” comment somewhere. And loads of clueless people are just gonna install it based on recommendation without even knowing what it does even if they would be perfectly happy with the default taskbar. They will absolutely not realise that this software that was recommended to them by the trusty commenters on the internet is what is causing their system to crash all the time, and they will guaranteed assume it’s just crappy microshaft with another version of winblows. Looping back to, 'It'd sure be nice if MS just supported some goddamn options in their desktop OS these days'. E: Or just make a start menu that doesn't suck.
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Apr 8, 2024 06:46
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned Start11 at all, since it also brings the previous generations of the taskbar/start menu back (plus extra features). I tried it out. It seemed fine enough. I'm one of the few people who's okay with the current Windows 11 start menu, lack of ability to change the theming/background aside, but if you want a program that would let you still change the taskbar, Start11 works well.
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Apr 8, 2024 06:57
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