|
Koos Group posted:Whether Netanyahu's statement is to be taken as good faith, however, is debatable. Whether the statement is truthful or not it can be up for debate... but never take a statement from the Israeli government in good faith.
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 14:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 07:30 |
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:I don't really see a difference between "as a society they absolutely wanted them [the aid workers] dead" and "Israeli society is lusting for aid worker blood". The former is a direct quote from punishedkissinger. Yeah I was specifically addressing that as a motivation for the attack, sorry if that wasn't clear. Israeli society probably does want them dead (ever heard of the pancake parties for Rachel Corrie?), but i think that probably does not have as much effect on military decisions as strategic factors (I mean it probably does influence the reasoning somewhat, but I think they are primarily concerned with their war objectives). My point was that there are more possibilities than "Israel did it because they want aid workers to die" and "the IIDF was just shooting at anything that moves without intent to kill these specific people". It's not as simple as scoffing at the former and concluding the latter must be more plausible by process of elimination VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Apr 9, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 14:30
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:But yeah, also humans are not necessarily rational especially in wartime. It wasn't logical to build pyramids of naked Iraqis at Abu-Ghraib, but well... I think it’s hard for people to picture all the nasty comments and hooting and hollering that can go on behind the scenes in a rotten unit, and then connect the dots to see that all the clinical language and passive voice allows people who really really suck to maintain a facade of professionalism that they don’t deserve. It’s just providing cover for a person that needs to be punished and fired. Maybe a more relatable analogy would be the guy who cheers when protestors get run over by a truck on the news. Then you check his social media and he’s got posts about god’s wrath and pancake protestors all over his feed. I wouldn’t believe anything along the lines of oh my foot slipped if there’s some incident with someone like that, who also happens to have a history of running over people himself. It’s just very credulous.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 14:32
|
|
|
not a value-add posted:I think it’s hard for people to picture all the nasty comments and hooting and hollering that can go on behind the scenes in a rotten unit, and then connect the dots to see that all the clinical language and passive voice allows people who really really suck to maintain a facade of professionalism that they don’t deserve. It’s just providing cover for a person that needs to be punished and fired. Yeah I agree. The IDF very much gets the American cop treatment by western media. No matter how much brutality they commit, and how many cops turn out to be members of white supremacist groups, and how many times cops literally say that the public are their enemy, they are always assumed to have pure motivations when they shoot someone and their statements always taken at face value, unless there's video of them shooting a guy in the back and planting a gun. But my point is more like, this isn't like the typical killer cop where there's no real motive for the murder beyond cops being generally violent, so an assumption that cops have pure intentions is enough to conclude it must have been an accident. This is more like the cop shooting an activist who is making trouble for them, pretty obvious motive. Oh and the PD holds a party every year to celebrate their favorite memory of killing an activist. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Apr 9, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 14:48
|
|
|
If in their hearts of hearts cops see all black people as violent criminals, it doesn't really 'purify their motivations'. The same goes for the IDF soldiers. The fact that they (and a considerable part of the Israeli society and establishment) see all Palestinians and everyone who helps them as terrorists is the problem here.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 14:54
|
|
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Has anything been able to be verified about exactly what happened at Al-Shifa? Many different accounts describing mass summary executions were reported by Palestinians who escaped/fled the area but I've seen almost nothing beyond that mentioned about it and little followup in "mainstream" western media sources, and it doesn't seem like there has been much investigation of the grounds even though Israel left a week ago, other than a couple people from WHO. It seems like at best the IDF was allowing troops to kill as they pleased, but based on some descriptions of survivors it sounds like the IDF may have had some sort of organized process of summary executions. The New Arab's English site has one of the most complete reports I've seen, including eyewitness interviews and on-the-scene journalist reports. It's incredibly grim. quote:On Monday, the Israeli army withdrew from the Shifa Medical Complex, west of Gaza City, leaving behind enormous destruction and hundreds of bodies scattered inside the hospital and around it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 15:11
|
|
|
There is functionally no difference between "we have no policy punishing this behavior" and "we have a policy encouraging this behavior." If no penalty is specified or applied, then the behavior is de facto permitted and encouraged, just with plausible deniability. If soldiers are doing it, and being recorded doing it, and not being punished or prevented from doing it again, and are in fact given more bombs and bullets, then does a lack of explicitly admitted intent really give you doubt as to the military's intentions?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 15:21
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:
Yeah, you can use postimages 'temporarily', until something better comes along. Someone wrote an ios shortcut for it: https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/05a19d6803b444a98e1f5577e693d9d1
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 15:22
|
|
|
CNN has a new expose in the Flour Massacre. Seems pretty clearcut that the IDF opened fire with a 600rpm MG on a breadline of unarmed civilians. https://twitter.com/katie_polglase/status/1777668775761834164 https://twitter.com/katie_polglase/status/1777668782426578993 really underscores that the goal of the IDF is genocide
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 16:04
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:CNN has a new expose in the Flour Massacre. Seems pretty clearcut that the IDF opened fire with a 600rpm MG on a breadline of unarmed civilians. Matthew Miller: *smirks* uh, well, as we've made it clear, Hamas is hiding behind women and children. It's our stance that Israel is acting in full accordance with international law. *chuckles* We're continuing to express concern that we want them to take more care to limit civilian casualties. But we want to stress that Israel has a right to defend itself
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 16:15
|
|
|
mrfart posted:Yeah, you can use postimages 'temporarily', Just FYI, there is a privacy risk using this shortcut -- it does not strip metadata from the image you upload, and neither does postimages. If you upload a picture that you took on your own phone, you may be giving away your location as well as other information.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 16:40
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:Matthew Miller: *smirks* uh, well, as we've made it clear, Hamas is hiding behind women and children. It's our stance that Israel is acting in full accordance with international law. *chuckles* We're continuing to express concern that we want them to take more care to limit civilian casualties. But we want to stress that Israel has a right to defend itself Has anyone who's emphasised that Israel has a right to defend itself also emphasised to the same degree that Palestinian has a right to defend itself?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 16:45
|
|
|
Outrail posted:Has anyone who's emphasised that Israel has a right to defend itself also emphasised to the same degree that Palestinian has a right to defend itself? This has been asked a few times, and the State Department spokesfolks always dance around it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 17:14
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:This has been asked a few times, and the State Department spokesfolks always dance around it. Yeah, this is why Israel goes to great lengths to hide what they've been doing in the west bank forever, and get western journalists to downplay kneecapping hundreds of unarmed Gazan protesters, etc. If everyone is ignorant about that, every time Palestinians strike back, it's not "defending themselves," it's just "terrorism." Also, the IDF having their HQ between a hospital and a community center is not using human shields, it's different Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 9, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 17:27
|
|
|
I mean after the 2000s I'm surprised anyone thinks America or any of its vassal/associated states genuinely care about things like the right to defend itself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:18
|
|
|
It's also absurd that they talk about Hamas using civilians as 'human shields' when Israel has made it clear for decades that they will slaughter infinite Palestinian civilians without one second's hesitation. You can only use civilians as human shields if your enemy has a conscience - for example the way IDF members do things like chain Palestinians to their vehicles or force Palestinian children to stand in front of them, knowing that their enemies actually will refrain from attacking them through civilians.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:27
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:Also, the IDF having their HQ between a hospital and a community center is not using human shields, it's different
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2024 22:31
|
|
|
HazCat posted:It's also absurd that they talk about Hamas using civilians as 'human shields' when Israel has made it clear for decades that they will slaughter infinite Palestinian civilians without one second's hesitation. Thanks to that 972 article we have confirmation that they are intentionally targeting people identified by their lavender system at home with their families using another system they named "where's daddy." Every time you saw a report of an entire family killed to the last member, that was why. They don't even know why they were targets, just that 1. The computer gave them a score above a cut-off and 2. The target was confirmed to be male (the only human involved step).
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 00:08
|
|
|
Adenoid Dan posted:Thanks to that 972 article we have confirmation that they are intentionally targeting people identified by their lavender system at home with their families using another system they named "where's daddy." Every time you saw a report of an entire family killed to the last member, that was why. They don't even know why they were targets, just that 1. The computer gave them a score above a cut-off and 2. The target was confirmed to be male (the only human involved step). Also, ten civilian casualties are acceptable for killing a suspected militia member, and 250 casualties are acceptable for killing a suspected officer. So yeah, good luck living in the same neighbourhood as someone who the AI says is a Hamas colonel.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 00:35
|
|
|
Nah, that can't be right. I have it on good authority that Israel's civilian to evil terrorist kill ratio is between 4 and 2 to 1, so there's no way they could be killing a whole family of people to kill just one guy, let alone a block. Also please do not compare and contrast that number that Israel says is fine to the ratio on October 7th.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 04:08
|
|
|
Adenoid Dan posted:Thanks to that 972 article we have confirmation that they are intentionally targeting people identified by their lavender system at home with their families using another system they named "where's daddy." Every time you saw a report of an entire family killed to the last member, that was why. They don't even know why they were targets, just that 1. The computer gave them a score above a cut-off and 2. The target was confirmed to be male (the only human involved step). The Where’s Daddy system also seems almost tailor made to kill every single hostage on purpose, and I don’t know how you wouldn’t have a hey wait a minute moment as an intel analyst or commander. It really seems like they just don’t care.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 07:59
|
|
|
It is pretty blatant that they don't actually see these as "acceptable costs," they just don't see it as a cost at all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 12:46
|
|
|
not a value-add posted:The Where’s Daddy system also seems almost tailor made to kill every single hostage on purpose, and I don’t know how you wouldn’t have a hey wait a minute moment as an intel analyst or commander. It really seems like they just don’t care. I suspect the Israeli leadership mostly wants dead hostages to retroactively justify their actions. They'll ignore the fact their own side killed (some of) the hostages and instead focus on Hamas letting their captives die, to give themselves sound reasons for the brutal attacks on everything in Gaza. If they really wanted them back they'd not have soldiers shoot first, maybe ask questions (but we don't really care) later.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 12:48
|
|
|
Israel's (and I mean that both in the sense of their political leadership and the prevailing sentiment among Israelis) first priority is not and never has been to rescue the hostages. They want to obliterate Hamas and brutalize Gaza as revenge and to make an example. Killing hostages is if anything a bonus for them since it reduces Hamas' leverage in ceasefire negotiations. Concern for their countrymen is a far, far weaker motivationVitalSigns posted:Yeah I was specifically addressing that as a motivation for the attack, sorry if that wasn't clear. Yawgmoft posted:Nah, that can't be right. I have it on good authority that Israel's civilian to evil terrorist kill ratio is between 4 and 2 to 1, so there's no way they could be killing a whole family of people to kill just one guy, let alone a block.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 14:28
|
|
|
I don’t understand how someone could join the armed forces of whatever nation they grew up in and not care about protecting citizens from harm. Imagine your parents getting kidnapped and instead of using intel for a rescue attempt your “defense force” uses the grid to incinerate them, all so they could kill a few extra five year olds sheltering in the basement. The conduct of the IDF is just so far gone from anything I’ve ever seen. America should’ve pulled the plug on this poo poo long ago.
not a value-add fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Apr 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 15:34
|
|
|
not a value-add posted:I don’t understand how someone could join the armed forces of whatever nation they grew up in and not care about protecting citizens from harm. Imagine your parents getting kidnapped and instead of using intel for a rescue attempt your “defense force” uses the grid to incinerate them, all so they could kill a few extra five year olds sheltering in the basement. The conduct of the IDF is just so far gone from anything I’ve ever seen. America should’ve pulled the plug on this poo poo long ago. it's worth watching interviews from American soldiers in Vietnam. if you can't find "the enemy," you kill the people you can find (five year olds).
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 17:21
|
|
precious
|
It does come across as frustration of being unable to engage Hamas in open battle. So instead they just kill any Palestinian they can. Supposedly Hamas was using IDF propensity to attack children by setting up traps and having a device play back the sound of children playing to lure them in.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 19:13
|
|
|
I haven’t seen this posted yet, MSF has a complied a detailed timeline of what went on at Nasser hospital. Besides the general destruction, the IDF sends a Palestinian prisoner dressed in white coveralls inside to deliver a message, and then executes him after they’re done using him. https://msf.org.uk/article/explained-how-israeli-army-attacked-gazas-nasser-hospital The videos in the article don’t auto play, but if you watch them all there are some serious injuries and dead bodies as a warning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2024 20:56
|
|
|
For anyone interested: Lead Army vessel for the JLOTS Gaza pier is north of Algeria.  Lopez turned off AIS on April 4 (so just after I looked last) they’re probably off North Africa (my estimate). Bobo has completed loading based on AIS and my estimate of an eta for them is 18 to 20 days. Doesn’t look like anything has turned around. Any one that wants to follow it themselves just search the vessels on marine traffic. I’m thinking the Lopez will switch AIS back on one it’s in the Med.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 02:08
|
|
|
Marenghi posted:It does come across as frustration of being unable to engage Hamas in open battle. So instead they just kill any Palestinian they can. lol where did you hear this?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 07:01
|
|
|
Grip it and rip it posted:lol where did you hear this? https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hk99jusva quote:Added to this last week was a more sophisticated method by the terrorists: they place loudspeakers in alleys that have already been attacked by air force or artillery fire, which play conversations between children or boys, in Arabic, in order to confuse the forces approaching them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 07:19
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1778314628432621656 Literally just murdering small children for the sake of it. And knowing your average Zionist, they’ll scream blood libel at anyone who says this to them. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Apr 11, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 15:43
|
|
|
Some missing context here if you're unfamiliar with him is that Ismail Haniyeh is the political head of Hamas, rather than a military leader, and is heavily involved in the ceasefire talks. One might think that assassinating his children and grandchildren on a holiday would indicate that the Israeli government is, perhaps, not fully on board with the prospect of a ceasefire.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 16:20
|
|
|
Marenghi posted:It does come across as frustration of being unable to engage Hamas in open battle. So instead they just kill any Palestinian they can. As lovely as israel is your take doesn't really seem like an accurate communication of the reporting. Anyway, a UN + World Bank report on Gazan infrastructure damage dropped last week: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2024/04/02/joint-world-bank-un-report-assesses-damage-to-gaza-s-infrastructure quote:The cost of damage to critical infrastructure in Gaza is estimated at around $18.5 billion according to a new report released today by the World Bank and the United Nations, with financial support of the European Union. That is equivalent to 97% of the combined GDP of the West Bank and Gaza in 2022. Full report is linked in the article. It's not great. Methodology seems about as solid as it can reasonably be
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 16:26
|
|
|
Goatse James Bond posted:As lovely as israel is your take doesn't really seem like an accurate communication of the reporting. The source I linked is dogshit, it's just the origin of the loudspeaker story. The penchant the IDF has for attacking children is more than well documented in text and video from a wide array of sources.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 18:03
|
|
|
Stringent posted:The source I linked is dogshit, it's just the origin of the loudspeaker story. you're right that I flubbed media literacy tbh I could ramble some about Hamas tactical reasoning assuming the story is accurate but eh, honestly not worth the bother, I'll just take the L and/or assume the tactic is Israeli propaganda in the first place Seeing if I can find a little more about the water situation but if the 5% output estimate is accurate that's... bad. It was something like 25% end of January iirc, which was also bad but not dehydration bad, "just" waterborne illness and poor hygiene bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 18:24
|
|
|
shimmy shimmy posted:Some missing context here if you're unfamiliar with him is that Ismail Haniyeh is the political head of Hamas, rather than a military leader, and is heavily involved in the ceasefire talks. One might think that assassinating his children and grandchildren on a holiday would indicate that the Israeli government is, perhaps, not fully on board with the prospect of a ceasefire. Even, one might say, actively working against it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 18:51
|
|
|
The ADL just gave Harvard and several other universities an F on their Anti-semitism policies. quote:The Anti-Defamation League has graded 85 American universities for their policies to protect Jewish students from antisemitism on campus. It gave Harvard and 12 other schools an “F.” Just two schools got an “A.” Going to the ADL website and reviewing the report brings up this: https://www.adl.org/campus-antisemitism-report-card/harvard-university  Glad we can share the antisemite label for pointing out modern Zionism is a load of BS.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 23:55
|
|
|
Jewish Currents has several good articles on the ADL, its internal rifts, and its nutjob CEO https://jewishcurrents.org/top-executive-leaves-adl-over-ceos-praise-of-elon-musk
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 01:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 07:30 |
|
|
Nebalebadingdong posted:Jewish Currents has several good articles on the ADL, its internal rifts, and its nutjob CEO of course he loves musk lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 02:12
|
|