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Murgos posted:Maybe this is dumb but if SCOTUS were to rule that the president enjoys even modest immunity to criminal prosecution due to implied article II powers then that seems to be also potentially enjoining the power of congress to impeach a president. If SCOTUS rules that there's presidential immunity in any of the trials he's currently involved in then then the US is in purely Calvinball territory and there's no point trying to divine what the Constitution means anymore.
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Apr 9, 2024 21:02
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socialsecurity posted:Yeah like if you are immune to crimes unless this group of 100ish people vote to stop you, what happens if you just kill those people. The main issue is that Dark Brandon would have to do it himself. The plumbers he hires to machine gun his political opponents would presumably still be able to be tried at the state level. Unless they do the murders in DC, in which case he can pardon the lot.
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Apr 9, 2024 21:21
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socialsecurity posted:Yeah like if you are immune to crimes unless this group of 100ish people vote to stop you, what happens if you just kill those people. As an example, in Germany the president and all members of the national and state parliament are immune from crminal prosecution or arrest unless a vote passes to nullify that immunity. However, this happens routinely whenever a parliamentarian is being investigated for a possible crime. Also, they can be arrested if caught red handed. The problem with Trump is that the Republicans are enabling him.
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Apr 9, 2024 21:33
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Just have to very carefully instruct your minions to only commit federal crimes. Kill your congressperson as part of an act of terror, not just murder
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Apr 9, 2024 21:34
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Fart Amplifier posted:If SCOTUS rules that there's presidential immunity in any of the trials he's currently involved in then then the US is in purely Calvinball territory and there's no point trying to divine what the Constitution means anymore. "the constitution is whatever 5 federalist society weirdos decide is best in their interests that point in time"
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Apr 9, 2024 21:35
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socialsecurity posted:Yeah like if you are immune to crimes unless this group of 100ish people vote to stop you, what happens if you just kill those people. I have a hard time imagining a hypothetical where a president can slaughter the entirety of Congress without any problems, but can be stopped by a single federal prosecutor.
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Apr 9, 2024 22:17
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Main Paineframe posted:I have a hard time imagining a hypothetical where a president can slaughter the entirety of Congress without any problems, but can be stopped by a single federal prosecutor. What if the prosecutor was Batman?
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Apr 9, 2024 22:21
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Batman is a detective not a prosecutor
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Apr 9, 2024 22:22
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haveblue posted:Batman is a detective not a prosecutor Obviously. That's why we just hire his close friend, Bruce Wayne, to prosecute Trump.
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Apr 9, 2024 22:27
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Main Paineframe posted:I have a hard time imagining a hypothetical where a president can slaughter the entirety of Congress without any problems, but can be stopped by a single federal prosecutor. Sounds like a job for the Pinkertons. 
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Apr 9, 2024 22:28
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Homer, it’s not Batman.
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Apr 9, 2024 22:29
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Caros posted:The main issue is that Dark Brandon would have to do it himself. The plumbers he hires to machine gun his political opponents would presumably still be able to be tried at the state level. Bad news regarding the murder of Congressional representatives...
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Apr 9, 2024 22:43
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Caros posted:The main issue is that Dark Brandon would have to do it himself. The plumbers he hires to machine gun his political opponents would presumably still be able to be tried at the state level. Or national parks. OH! Assassin bears that kidnap congress then take them to Yellowstone.
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Apr 9, 2024 23:10
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Caros posted:
Conveniently, this is where they have to be to impeach him!
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Apr 9, 2024 23:23
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Ravenfood posted:Conveniently, this is where they have to be to impeach him! *starts blasting*
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Apr 9, 2024 23:43
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A heist or chase movie but it's Congress that has to find a way into the Capital and vote on impeachment before the death squads get them Like that Tag movie, but Democracy!
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Apr 9, 2024 23:46
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DTurtle posted:As an example, in Germany the president and all members of the national and state parliament are immune from crminal prosecution or arrest unless a vote passes to nullify that immunity. But does that continue to apply in perpetuity after they have left office?
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Apr 10, 2024 00:24
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Bunch of loving clowns https://twitter.com/frankrunyeon/status/1777811975914897412 https://twitter.com/frankrunyeon/status/1777814057489158240
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Apr 10, 2024 00:34
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OgNar posted:Bunch of loving clowns Trump Legal Troubles: PPS - i'm keeping the fifteen dollars
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Apr 10, 2024 00:38
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   I'm assuming hotlinking Twitter flies here.
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Apr 10, 2024 00:39
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OgNar posted:Bunch of loving clowns This poo poo would be so funny if he didn't have such a solid chance at winning in November.
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Apr 10, 2024 00:43
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it's still funny to me because that aforementioned "Real Chance Of Winning" keeps getting holes punched through it through comical ineptitude and own goals his legal dumbshittery could have come at little actual consequence if he'd just stuck to certain levels of it. instead he's making own goals that take his campaign cash away and slowly drain away general voter enthusiasm for him silently in the background
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Apr 10, 2024 00:49
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This is like the legal version of the Four Seasons thing
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Apr 10, 2024 00:52
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Yiggy posted:Yes actually during the engoron trial he got pretty lippy and tried to grandstand after repeated denials from the judge. Tried to pull a speech out of his pocket and launch into it.
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Apr 10, 2024 01:16
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Craig K posted:Trump Legal Troubles: PPS - I'm keeping the fifteen dollars 
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Apr 10, 2024 01:25
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The Islamic Shock posted:Congress is now in recess motherfuckers Ted Cruz gulps as all of his colleagues pull out knives and look the other way at the same time.
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Apr 10, 2024 01:52
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Murgos posted:Maybe this is dumb but if SCOTUS were to rule that the president enjoys even modest immunity to criminal prosecution due to implied article II powers then that seems to be also potentially enjoining the power of congress to impeach a president. The main moon logic bit that Trumps trying for is the idea that an ex-president with no duties can't be prosecuted either. If a president is trying to avoid impeachment by jailing or assassinating congress, you've already left the land of "what is legal or not" and are in the land of "how many soldiers do you have?", it's not really a situation the legal system needs to handle
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Apr 10, 2024 01:59
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If Debbs actually won one of his jailhouse runs, would the government had to have let him out then
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Apr 10, 2024 02:03
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Caros posted:The main issue is that Dark Brandon would have to do it himself. The plumbers he hires to machine gun his political opponents would presumably still be able to be tried at the state level. I've said it before, but President Mass Shooter would be pretty on-the-nose for America right now.
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Apr 10, 2024 02:04
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Foxfire_ posted:A sitting president probably does have a bunch of immunity while they remain in office. Some immunity from civil suits has a settled case that I don't feel like tracking down and the reasoning there maps fairly straightforwardly to criminal stuff. Like if the president committed a DUI, they probably can't be jailed until their term ends (by time or by impeachment) because it would interfere with their constitutionally mandated duties. The funny thing is that he has a vague sort of point. Rome had a severe problem where some elected officals had immunity from Prosecution which meant in practice that your opponents would wait till you were out of office then rake you over the coals for things you did in office. It also meant that the goal for a lot of politicians became to find a way to stay in power indefinitely. Consul to proconsul or to censor etc. It creates a very real issue that politicians want to keep power (even going so far as to March an army into Rome) because if they don't their lives are ruined. Thing is, in America this was largely a solved problem. Things you do as president as part of the job of being president are pretty much immune from review. No one is going after Obama for drone striking an American, even if that is technically murder.
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Apr 10, 2024 02:30
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cr0y posted:Stick him in one of those glass boxes like they do in Russia but make it sound and smell proof. Like Lenin...? I'm okay with that.
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Apr 10, 2024 02:35
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Caros posted:Things you do as president as part of the job of being president are pretty much immune from review. No one is going after Obama for drone striking an American, even if that is technically murder. The established consensus has been that criminal acts by a president can be charged after they're no longer in office; everybody thought that Nixon would be prosecuted without a pardon
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Apr 10, 2024 03:25
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One would think any immunity would be voided by the commission of a crime, especially one that isn't part of your duties. But the mere fact that scotus decided to take up the question is a national shame.
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Apr 10, 2024 04:03
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Asproigerosis posted:One would think any immunity would be voided by the commission of a crime, especially one that isn't part of your duties. But the mere fact that scotus decided to take up the question is a national shame. That doesn't really make much sense, does it? An immunity from prosecution for crimes wouldn't be worth much if it automatically stopped applying as soon as a crime was committed.
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Apr 10, 2024 04:13
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Main Paineframe posted:That doesn't really make much sense, does it? An immunity from prosecution for crimes wouldn't be worth much if it automatically stopped applying as soon as a crime was committed. Reminds me of that guy in Mystery Men with the superpower to turn invisible, but only if no one is watching him, including himself.
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Apr 10, 2024 05:04
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The craziest part for me is how everyone, every side of the political aisle believes Trump is The Islamic Shock fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Apr 10, 2024 |
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Apr 10, 2024 05:58
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The last decade has obliterated the faith I had in humanity as an innocent lil babe.
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Apr 10, 2024 06:07
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It clearly isn't a threat to democracy since that's what ~40% of Americans want. I would say that the rule of law has been obliterated by the cowardly executive and judicial branches by using the softest gloves possible to allow trump to run circles around all of these indictments when he should have been immediately locked up for sedition and incitement Jan 6 or their second chance with the classified documents when he is a blatantly obvious national security risk.
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Apr 10, 2024 06:17
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So if an ex-president is immune to the law, does that mean only another ex-president can stop one?
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Apr 10, 2024 06:20
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Asproigerosis posted:It clearly isn't a threat to democracy since that's what ~40% of Americans want. Whether or not something is a threat to democracy has nothing to do with how many people want it. 43.9% of the German electorate voted for Hitler in 1933, was that not a threat to democracy because a large number of citizens voted for it?
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Apr 10, 2024 06:24
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