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Frionnel posted:I just don't see sliders or buttons as really too different, besides people getting riled up that Johan was once again unprofessional and smugly called out his fellow devs for a minor creative difference. it is precisely as important as to whether its called byzantine or the western roman empire. by which I mean it is incredibly important and my opinion on the name is right and others are wrong
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Apr 11, 2024 15:51
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there’s literally 0 choice in a slider based tax system. you would literally just find the Optimal Value and that’s that. boring zzz
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Apr 11, 2024 16:22
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there’s literally 0 choice in a button based tax system. you would literally just find the Optimal Value and that’s that. boring zzz
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Apr 11, 2024 16:25
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“oh you can always pick suboptimally and roleplay” okay then fuckin make those the options instead of a weird analog slider I even like the idea of super flexible tax policies this is just the worst way to do it!! Fight me irl!!!
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Apr 11, 2024 16:25
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GrossMurpel posted:there’s literally 0 choice in a button based tax system. you would literally just find the Optimal Value and that’s that. boring zzz that’s right, that’s why Victoria 3’s system of being able to shift classes impacted by taxation policies, as well as benefit more from rural, vs urban cash, plus friction from moneyed elites, is just an optimal choice machine oh whoops your point is bad!! Suffer the consequences and play two more Victoria 3 campaigns in penance
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Apr 11, 2024 16:27
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The dev diaries have mentioned that there will always be a drawback whenever you move the slider. That could be made interesting. It certainly wasn't in EU3, which is my only reference. I haven't played MEIOU&Taxes so i don't know what they do, but it seems to be another of their influences (the third and final being Imperator).
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Apr 11, 2024 16:28
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Frionnel posted:The dev diaries have mentioned that there will always be a drawback whenever you move the slider. That could be made interesting. It certainly wasn't in EU3, which is my only reference. I haven't played MEIOU&Taxes so i don't know what they do, but it seems to be another of their influences (the third and final being Imperator). MEIOU and taxes has a whole class system in, it whips rear end (and runs like garbage). I’m open to the idea that I might be wrong with this particular implementation, but the implication posters are making that sliders==more viable options is not correct
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Apr 11, 2024 16:31
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Radia posted:that’s right, that’s why Victoria 3’s system of being able to shift classes impacted by taxation policies, as well as benefit more from rural, vs urban cash, plus friction from moneyed elites, is just an optimal choice machine but what if we kept those mechanics but replaced the 5 position low/high tax button with a slider
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Apr 11, 2024 16:31
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Do we even know enough about how everything comes together to know if the system is dumb or not? If there was some sort of system where you could tax the nobles more for an extra 2 ducats a month vs taxing them less and they would instead develop a province they have power in based on where your slider is positioned it could at least give you some sort of decision to make there. Do I want to be richer vs do I want them to develop more for me? Maybe it doesn't work that way at all but I could at least see systems where the "Optimal Slider Value" is going to be different depending on what you are trying to do.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:33
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Yaoi Gagarin posted:but what if we kept those mechanics but replaced the 5 position low/high tax button with a slider then that’s bad ui!!
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Apr 11, 2024 16:35
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Let's have some innovation in this bad boy. It shouldn't just be a toggle for whether the Roman Empire is called it's correct name, or the ERE, or the Byzantine Empire, but if you pick the exonym settings to get Byzantium, it should also call the HRE the Kingdom of Germany, France can be Frankia the whole game etc.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:35
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Let's have some innovation in this bad boy. It shouldn't just be a toggle for whether the Roman Empire is called it's correct name, or the ERE, or the Byzantine Empire, but if you pick the exonym settings to get Byzantium, it should also call the HRE the Kingdom of Germany, France can be Frankia the whole game etc. you say that like it’s a bad thing
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Apr 11, 2024 16:38
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what if I could tell the game that I want to deficit spend at around say 5% of GDP and it auto adjusted taxes or construction speed to stay close to that target so I didn't have to micro that and instead I just could focus on the grand strategy in my grand strategy game
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Apr 11, 2024 16:45
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PittTheElder posted:Let's have some innovation in this bad boy. It shouldn't just be a toggle for whether the Roman Empire is called it's correct name, or the ERE, or the Byzantine Empire, but if you pick the exonym settings to get Byzantium, it should also call the HRE the Kingdom of Germany, France can be Frankia the whole game etc.
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Apr 11, 2024 17:13
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There's no choice in games, the truly optimal move is not to play.A Buttery Pastry posted:The Kingdom of Germany was not synonymous with the HRE, hell, it wasn't even synonymous with the German-speaking parts of the HRE. It should be called the Empire of the Franks, or as a parallel to the Byzantine Empire, the Aachenine Empire. Gotta get in with saying The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor roman, nor an empire, nor a the, nor ovirus, nor SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 17:37
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They should replace the ERE name option with a slider that goes from Byzantium to Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων.Radia posted:MEIOU and taxes has a whole class system in, it whips rear end (and runs like garbage). The important thing with a slider is less that it gives more viable options and more that it allows for "floating" options. You usually want picks similar to what V3 has - minimum, low, medium, high, maximum. But if the middle-of-the-road option is dependent on a floating variable, like in this case estate satisfaction, then you need either a slider or for the discrete choices to have that baked in. But then another player might not want that - for another player the floating point might be the gross income made, like "I want to run x ducats positive balance even if it pisses my estates off somewhat". Sliders let you do that. It's fine.
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Apr 11, 2024 17:52
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The true solution is to call the Constantinopolitan state Romania, the Italian location "Roma," and reserve the term "Roman Empire" for the formable. I'd be good with the HRE being "Das Reich (Deutscher)" or if that's a bit too sensitive in its echoes, "Imperium (Germanicae)," "Heiliges Römisches Reich," or simply "The Empire," and HRE for short. If there are multiple claimants to Roman-ness, that gives a really fun condition for forming the classical formable: state needs to have a "Roman" claim, and no other state may possess a "Roman" claim (i.e. no HRE and no Romania, and maybe no other states in the Roman zone are of Imperial rank).
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Apr 11, 2024 17:55
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this roman empire derail is so tedious because we all know the proper name is دولت عليه عثمانیه
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Apr 11, 2024 18:01
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A slider for how many Romes can be active at once
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Apr 11, 2024 18:02
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Every possible Roman successor state should be called Rome, including Wales
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Apr 11, 2024 18:13
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The player should be able to rename all states in single player so they can make the decision as to who is Rome. (No one. No one is Rome.)
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Apr 11, 2024 18:25
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Formable Judean People's Front, please
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Apr 11, 2024 18:52
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 DrSunshine posted:Formable Judean People's Front, please
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Apr 11, 2024 19:14
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Rename Byzantium to The Wholely Roman Empire.
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Apr 11, 2024 19:25
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Taxes should be as high as possible for a given state's ability to enforce its will on its subjects. "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy". What are you gonna do about it, rebel? Declare independence? Overthrow your rightful king?
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Apr 11, 2024 19:58
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Enjoy posted:Taxes should be as high as possible for a given state's ability to enforce its will on its subjects. "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy". so said Charles I of England, who very much wished that he had some tax sliders
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Apr 11, 2024 20:10
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Vizuyos posted:so said Charles I of England, who very much wished that he had some tax sliders Head on/off toggle?
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Apr 11, 2024 21:28
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Groke posted:Head on/off toggle? perfect use for a slider though
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Apr 11, 2024 21:55
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StashAugustine posted:Every possible Roman successor state should be called Rome, including Wales I absolutely love that there are Welsh king lists which start have a bunch of random nonsensical Latin titles as people's names in the "30+ generations ago" section, because people remembered that those things were associated with powerful people but the meaning of the words were totally lost. They also have poo poo like kings being descended from Julius Caesar and / or Jesus  p.s. sliders bad don't do sliders. Discrete options with major differences between them are just more interesting.
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Apr 11, 2024 22:01
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Actually, sliders good, hope this helps
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Apr 12, 2024 00:06
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reignonyourparade posted:Actually, sliders good, hope this helps
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Apr 12, 2024 00:08
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reignonyourparade posted:Actually, sliders good, hope this helps 
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Apr 12, 2024 00:17
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The Kingdom of Germany was not synonymous with the HRE, hell, it wasn't even synonymous with the German-speaking parts of the HRE. It should be called the Empire of the Franks, or as a parallel to the Byzantine Empire, the Aachenine Empire. No I know, that's just what the Romans generally called it from the Ottonians forward. Exonyms for everyone! Aachenian Empire would be hilarious though. Johan please make it happen
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Apr 12, 2024 00:25
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All Empires are now named after their home regions. Londonian Empire. Columbian Empire. Beijingian Empire. Tokyoen Empire.
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Apr 12, 2024 00:29
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Sliders and sets of buttons are both fine, they're basically the same experience anyway. What I don't like is when the game makes you reconfirm your actions on a timer, like the Spanish Flu event in Vicky 3 that makes you go into your decisions every six months and pick whether you want a full, partial, or no lockdown, or the artifacts in CK3 that degrade over time unless you go into the menu and keep restoring them. I just don't want to have to do busywork. Why do you have to manually promote every general and admiral in Vicky 3? Why not just auto-promote the generals I've picked until they can cover the capacity of the army they're assigned to? More game mechanics should be like merchants in EU4 where you can set them once and not think about them again until you actually have a reason to change your strategy.
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Apr 12, 2024 00:38
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reignonyourparade posted:Actually, sliders good, hope this helps
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Apr 12, 2024 00:45
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One of the major issues with Vicky 3 is not enough sliders.
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Apr 12, 2024 00:46
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The Franks spoke frankish, a germanic language. "France" speaks "french", a romance language. The Franks were from modern day Belgium. "France" does not control Belgium. The Franks were polytheists. "France" is christian. Therefore, the true successors of the Franks are the Flemish. Rename France to Lutetian Kingdom. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 00:55
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What about buttons to move a slider
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Apr 12, 2024 01:40
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I've never actually eaten sliders. Are they common in the US? How large are they normally, compared to a regular burger? How many would a person eat in one sitting? If you order them at a restaurant, do they all have different toppings, like a little sample selection of the different burgers on the menu?
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Apr 12, 2024 05:30
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