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FuturePastNow posted:It's going in an ATX case. None of those atom boards have nearly enough slots or ports for a real computer. The problem with saying NAS is that you don’t imply the scale. The “atom” SoCs, ie silvermont, goldmont, gracemont, are in a ton of small NAS appliances. So, what kind of storage speed are you looking for? Platters, sata SSDs, nvme?
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Apr 4, 2024 00:39
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shrike82 posted:yeah i'd been vaguely aware of macs running at full speed on battery but an m3 pro on battery running faster than a desktop 13600KF is something special Intel really isn't doing well in efficiency these days
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Apr 4, 2024 07:15
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Speaking of inefficient, a friend gave me his old workstation: a Core i9-7980XE with 64GB RAM and an RTX 3070. Among other things I plan to use it to rip down my media collection en masse, but I assume even at stock that Skylake-X is going to swill power and the actual serving of that media should be reserved for a little ITX machine I was planning to build anyway, right?
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Apr 4, 2024 07:58
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Hasturtium posted:Speaking of inefficient, a friend gave me his old workstation: a Core i9-7980XE with 64GB RAM and an RTX 3070. Among other things I plan to use it to rip down my media collection en masse, but I assume even at stock that Skylake-X is going to swill power and the actual serving of that media should be reserved for a little ITX machine I was planning to build anyway, right? Serving media is only a matter of a few MBps, and can be done on 100BaseTX - so the lower-power the better. EDIT: Picking codec also matters for your media playback device - you'll wanna check that you can offload decoding to save power. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 09:25
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Well, ffmpeg with CRF appropriate for the codec+resolution you're archiving at will be completely CPU-bound, as it can't be offloaded - so at least you're in a good place there. Yeah, I’m targeting the codec to work with the Roku Ultra and iPads that’ll be ingesting most of the video, and I have a PCIe-plugless Intel Arc A380 that’ll live in the completed machine in the event on-the-fly transcoding is needed. I may spring for a 13400-ish chip because the difference in idle power over a quad P-core only chip is trivial, and it’d be a lot more flexible under load. Thanks for the advice. Hasturtium fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 10:02
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hobbesmaster posted:The problem with saying NAS is that you don’t imply the scale. The “atom” SoCs, ie silvermont, goldmont, gracemont, are in a ton of small NAS appliances. A bunch of hard drives with capacity to add SSDs later. The size of the thing doesn't matter, though I'd prefer it not double my power bill.
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Apr 4, 2024 12:46
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Hasturtium posted:Speaking of inefficient, a friend gave me his old workstation: a Core i9-7980XE with 64GB RAM and an RTX 3070. Among other things I plan to use it to rip down my media collection en masse, but I assume even at stock that Skylake-X is going to swill power and the actual serving of that media should be reserved for a little ITX machine I was planning to build anyway, right? Skylake was when Intel introduced the modern CPU-controlled fully dynamic frequency & power states, including parking idle cores. So it shouldn't be that bad. It's not gonna be as efficient at idle as a modern system, and in particular the mobo for a HEDT probably consumes a lot more idle power than an ITX. Putting in a new PSU might help -- idle efficiency is much more of a thing now. So, I dunno but probably only an extra 15-25 watts? Small enough that the ITX will probably never pay for itself in saved power. Big enough that you might still feel bad about it.
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Apr 4, 2024 13:24
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i went for power efficiency and then undervolted my new build because even though the extra few dozen watts dont necessarily directly translate into a huger power bill, they directly contribute to needing additional climate control for me, which is a substantive expense
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Apr 4, 2024 13:35
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FuturePastNow posted:A bunch of hard drives with capacity to add SSDs later. The size of the thing doesn't matter, though I'd prefer it not double my power bill. I’d just buy the biggest, easiest to work with case you can find and add pcie SATA expansion cards to whatever ATX mobo and cpu pairing is cheap. That is unlikely to stress any modern retail CPU.
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Apr 4, 2024 15:39
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hobbesmaster posted:I’d just buy the biggest, easiest to work with case you can find and add pcie SATA expansion cards to whatever ATX mobo and cpu pairing is cheap. That is unlikely to stress any modern retail CPU. Yeah that's why I was looking at combo deals with i3s. Of course used parts are an option, too, but new stuff when there's a good sale isn't much more unless I'm willing to go way back.
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Apr 4, 2024 16:55
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Klyith posted:Skylake was when Intel introduced the modern CPU-controlled fully dynamic frequency & power states, including parking idle cores. So it shouldn't be that bad. 15-25W isn't exactly nothing, especially if you live in a country where electricity costs over $0.50/kWh - it'll depend on how long the system lives, but my last HTPC lasted a good decade.
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Apr 4, 2024 17:01
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Worf posted:theyre gonna have u subscribe to your CPU monthly, trust me Not a subscription, but they essentially did try to sell CPU DLC to consumers 13 years ago (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service?s=31) and appear to have a similar thing going on in their Xeon line now (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-officially-introduces-pay-as-you-go-chip-licensing) canyoneer posted:Every time I hear a news article talking about huge investments in AI and how Nvidia is the world leader supplying silicon for that I think about Saffron Technologies. There's probably a mountain of companies that have been killed off by similar pettiness over the years. Such a waste. 
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Apr 4, 2024 17:58
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I'm waiting for NVidia to "allow" people to upgrade DLSS versions across card generations for a scaling fee depending on which card you have
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Apr 4, 2024 20:32
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The current pay-to-unlock features in the Xeons are kind of specific to certain purposes (DLB, DSA, AAI, QAT). There are very few applications that make use of it, so it makes sense to let those customers pay extra to unlock. It makes more sense than making even more SKUs.
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Apr 4, 2024 20:49
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Beef posted:The current pay-to-unlock features in the Xeons are kind of specific to certain purposes (DLB, DSA, AAI, QAT). There are very few applications that make use of it, so it makes sense to let those customers pay extra to unlock. It makes more sense than making even more SKUs. Can you unlock them after buying a vanilla SKU though? I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that Intel fused off the fancy features.
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Apr 5, 2024 08:38
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I honestly don't see the issue with unlockable CPUs. The alternative is the situation right now, where they just permanently fuse off the features instead without the option of upgrading in place.
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Apr 5, 2024 08:55
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Yes, most skus support on demand upgrade. The fact sheet mentions you can upgrade one time, either as you buy or after. Monthly license is also possible if you go through HPE or something.
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Apr 5, 2024 09:00
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Does anyone know why sometimes my CPU won't downclock itself when its idle or in low activity? Its making it stay pretty hot. It fixes itself for a few days if I restart the computer, but eventually it gets stuck fully sped up again. I'm on Windows 10, cpu is an i7-12700kf, motherboard is a MSI MPG Z60 Edge. Not sure where the best place to ask this is.
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Apr 5, 2024 09:50
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Node posted:Does anyone know why sometimes my CPU won't downclock itself when its idle or in low activity? Its making it stay pretty hot. It fixes itself for a few days if I restart the computer, but eventually it gets stuck fully sped up again. I'm on Windows 10, cpu is an i7-12700kf, motherboard is a MSI MPG Z60 Edge. Not sure where the best place to ask this is. Pretty much has to be software, not hardware. Either something is running on the CPU with enough load to up the clock, or windows has been switched to use the max power profile or set to 100% CPU. You could check your BIOS version and update if a new one is available, just on the off chance, but I'm 99.9% sure it's software / OS. edit: note that in task manager a program that's only using 5% of CPU can still be running a core at max -- with 20 cores it's only using 1/20th of the "whole" CPU. Klyith fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 13:25
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BurritoJustice posted:I honestly don't see the issue with unlockable CPUs. The alternative is the situation right now, where they just permanently fuse off the features instead without the option of upgrading in place. I definitely agree with this. We are currently considering upgrading the CPU on an older server. The server is working perfectly fine, but people want to use it with a software that requires significantly more cores. Upgrading the CPU or replacing the server are both options with annoying expense and hassle.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:05
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Klyith posted:Pretty much has to be software, not hardware. Either something is running on the CPU with enough load to up the clock, or windows has been switched to use the max power profile or set to 100% CPU. Task manager is also very deceptive for CPU usage, it's scaled relative to base clock. If your CPU is running over base clock, you'll be at 100% usage displayed in task manager well before you actually hit 100% usage in the way that most software will report.
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Apr 5, 2024 14:25
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Beef posted:Monthly license is also possible if you go through HPE or something. drat that would actually be useful if you just wanted to try something out without committing to a long-term purchase.
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Apr 5, 2024 18:40
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BurritoJustice posted:I honestly don't see the issue with unlockable CPUs. The alternative is the situation right now, where they just permanently fuse off the features instead without the option of upgrading in place. Right now, they have to leave enough features enabled on the CPU to make it attractive to everyone who they want to buy it. With on-demand features, they will lock everything not needed for the lowest possible target and you'll be buying 40 pieces of DLC just to get to the level of functionality you have now. Hardware microtransactions are as inherently bad for consumers as they are in software. In the commercial market where hardware is being bought for a very specific purpose, it may be a good thing, but in the consumer market it we should resist it with vehemence. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 19:19
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Can't wait to be able to jailbreak an Intel motherboard to turn an i5 into an i9
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Apr 5, 2024 20:32
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I think DLC for CPUs in the consumer space is a pretty unlikely thing: it would have to be stuff that costs little to no silicon real estate. Selling me a $200 CPU where I can pay $50 to unlock 2 more cores and $25 for AVX-512 is a complete non-starter because all that silicon has to be present and working. The current trend across the whole space is using chiplets to reduce production inefficiency. It works in the enterprise space because the economies of scale are different, but even for xeons that literally have DLC I bet the features are relatively small in physical size.
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Apr 5, 2024 21:45
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K8.0 posted:Right now, they have to leave enough features enabled on the CPU to make it attractive to everyone who they want to buy it. With on-demand features, they will lock everything not needed for the lowest possible target and you'll be buying 40 pieces of DLC just to get to the level of functionality you have now. Hardware microtransactions are as inherently bad for consumers as they are in software. No, what's bad in this situation is them making the products poo poo independent of the option to unlock them. A theoretical situation where they release the exact same CPUs, with the option of tiering them up later, is both technically possible and a straight upgrade for consumers. It's also better for ewaste, because instead of throwing away your old low end CPU when it becomes a bottleneck you just unlock it to a higher tier one and keep it for longer.
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Apr 6, 2024 02:41
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FuturePastNow posted:Can't wait to be able to jailbreak an Intel motherboard to turn an i5 into an i9 That's been around for ages, even if you discount overclocking in general we've had the Athlon XP and the disabled third cores that you could connect with a pencil trace on whatever the thing was after that. People even worked out how to put sticky tape on certain pins (out of thousands) on a CPU to get them to work on sockets that aren't supported, and to flash Intel chipsets that had the same socket but wouldn't let you use them. The consumer side is the worst possible case for Intel to try and rent-seek with CPU features since there's a huge market willing to try to backdoor whatever they implement.
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Apr 6, 2024 14:54
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People doing that doesn't even raise to the level of noise in Intel's sales. A fraction of a fraction of a percent of consumer revenue. If they get 0.5% of the best buy 14100 units to upgrade to 14400 at $30 or some hp desktop sales guy sells a fleet upgrade to a few thousand desktop hospital system to an it manager they'll dwarf the ten dorks who snip pins.
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Apr 6, 2024 15:34
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Klyith posted:[...] That's the case with the accelerators behind the unlocks. They are relatively tiny and sit outside the cores, behind a PCIe interface. The cost for Intel is more the in testing and continuous software support than the transistor budget. A feature like QAT used to be a DLC as well, as a separate card. They just moved it on-chip and kept the purchasing model. I think that internal politics is another factor to consider. Each of those accelerators has a separate team that needs to justify their existence. Direct licenses carry more weight than diffuse benefits when bundled with another product.
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Apr 6, 2024 17:14
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i got this little 2-1/detachable tablet to mess around with, it has a 10th gen i5 in it. i understand it has locked voltages etc, but i can still disable turbo and put a multiplier limit on it if i want right? i used throttlestop to try this situationally while using it for some older games and it seems like its working as expected
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Apr 8, 2024 16:19
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I don't know about 10th gen i5s specifically but even on locked Atom/Celeron I've successfully used ThrottleStop to cap the frequency yeah.
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Apr 8, 2024 16:46
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The socketed Meteor Lake-PS for the edge has launched, essentially the laptop parts in a socket. These aren't going to be consumer available (for example, search for the prior gen Alder Lake-PS i7 12800HL ...), but these are the first socket LGA1851 chips with Arrow Lake to follow later this year. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-launches-first-core-ultra-cpus-for-lga-1851-socket-featuring-meteor-lake-architecture-for-the-edge  Although these aren't gonna be something you and I will probably ever see... I sorta think they would be amazing for a plex/jellyfin box. The 15W 165UL specifically is 2 P-core, 8-E, 2-LPE, but has the full dual AV1 decode/encode stack. Could make a really nice power efficient box with beefy AV1 transcode. Guess we're gonna have to wait for Arrow Lake to fill that niche.
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Apr 9, 2024 17:06
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If it's socketed there will probably be some weird Aliexpress motherboard for it in a year or two
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Apr 9, 2024 19:33
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FuturePastNow posted:If it's socketed there will probably be some weird Aliexpress motherboard for it in a year or two You won't even need the socketed one, there will absolutely be weird aliexpress itx motherboards with mobile cpus soldered onboard.
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Apr 9, 2024 20:26
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Speaking of MTL, Chips and Cheese has an analysis of the iGPU: https://chipsandcheese.com/2024/04/08/intels-ambitious-meteor-lake-igpu/ tl;dr seems to be that it's very similar in performance to the 780m except for higher latency and slower INT addition.
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Apr 9, 2024 20:52
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Cygni posted:The socketed Meteor Lake-PS for the edge has launched, essentially the laptop parts in a socket. These aren't going to be consumer available (for example, search for the prior gen Alder Lake-PS i7 12800HL ...), but these are the first socket LGA1851 chips with Arrow Lake to follow later this year. SPI w/ THC 
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Apr 9, 2024 21:05
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turning a big dial taht says "amps" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1778920540901941482
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Apr 13, 2024 13:57
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repiv posted:turning a big dial taht says "amps" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right 
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Apr 13, 2024 16:44
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It’s gotta suck being a motherboard maker, because outside of your spec sheet the only way to differentiate your product meaningfully from your competitors is to play catty-corner games with electrical tolerances to juice out extra performance. And for a while that worked, but CPUs are being built to such increasingly rigid tolerances that those old tricks increasingly impede system stability or even impact component lifespan. I had a feeling there might be a repeat of the AMD issue from last year that was killing some percentage of x3D chips, and while this seems less serious the old “throw amps at the problem” paradigm needs to die.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:03
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No different than GPUs now and Nvidia/AMD have figured out to lock down their cards pretty well/tell their card manufacturers to stop it.
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