|
What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| 🦋 |
|
15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
|
115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
|
12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
|
67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
|
94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
|
14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
|
87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
|
Shogi posted:no please, don't associate me with the falx or the draco or Zarmizegethousa, they're too cool and badass for me!! We joke about it ITT, but it's staggering how far this anticommunism stuff goes, and how engrained it is.   
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 12:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 23:49 |
|
|
Weka posted:Think really hard Ooohhh riiight, the nazis Yeah that was commendable
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 12:58
|
|
|
Soapy_Bumslap posted:"Purged" as an ominous outcome is so funny, Deng Xiaoping got purged more times before noon than most people would be in their whole life and deng corrected course on china being a communist superpower that will make the us look like a joke in less than 50 years. can't argue with results imo
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:04
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:I think the greatest refutation of the 'Great Terror' story is how much of the Soviet population, in Russia, Ukraine, and the other SSRs, gave their all in defense of the Soviet Union during WW2. They persevered under unimaginable duress and banded together to crush the nazis. It's the contrast which really reveals what is true and what ppropaganda.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:11
|
|
|
Soapy_Bumslap posted:"Purged" as an ominous outcome is so funny, Deng Xiaoping got purged more times before noon than most people would be in their whole life I thought this was the whole problem with the "Great Terror" of 1937-38 and the Moscow trials and such, that purging meant being executed instead of just the usual public criticism, firing and maybe having to go away for a while AFancyQuestionMark has issued a correction as of 13:21 on Apr 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:17
|
|
|
Don't forget the stigma it cast on your family! Purge covers a wide range of things. Pretty convenient that "getting fired" and "executed" can be counted under the same category that you can then train people to assume is all executions all the time. To be fair on the Soviets complaining about purges they were pretty rough to deal with on a personal level. It started with firing and then heaped on blacklisting and social stigma that could even affect how your community treated your family members. People lost a lot of friends and support networks that way. So it was pretty harsh to get purged. But it wasn't always what the West likes to portray it as. Phigs has issued a correction as of 13:24 on Apr 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:18
|
|
|
This is further complicated by the mountains of evidence that Trotsky was in touch with people within the USSR, and Poland was infiltrating spies across the border, in addition to whatever Britain and France were up to. It's like how narratives of Warsaw Pact "tyranny" coexist with heroic stories of derring-do by CIA agents parachuted into Bulgaria/Romania/Hungary, including providing arms and support to these "anticommunist resistance networks", Sweden apparently continuously shuttling spies into the Baltics, etc etc
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:24
|
|
|
This probably isn't the right thread for me to be making GBS threads up with this, but I don't believe this whole "the problem with the purges is that they didn't go far enough" narrative. As if removing enough people would eventually leave you with only ideologically disciplined true hardcore stalinists that wouldn't have done liberalization and lead to Gorbachev and perestroika. I think this is incredible wishful thinking and is a pretty anti-materalist understanding of history I don't think the macro historical conditions of the USSR would be majorly different with or without the purges, with or without Stalin at the helm
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:35
|
|
|
AFancyQuestionMark posted:I don't think the macro historical conditions of the USSR would be majorly different with or without the purges, with or without Stalin at the helm 
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:40
|
|
|
Dancer posted:We have discussed at times in the past how a lot of things which pass as "objective truth", "the right way to do science" have roots in anti-communism, like Karl Popper. of course any scientific effort will be influenced by ideology and romanian, as much as any language, will have been influenced by external factors, but the category of 'romance languages' has a (strict) definition that moreover fits with Romanian. the end-result of your reasoning is unfettered relativism and scepticism.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:41
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:referring once again to Losurdo's "Stalin" drat those gulags sound nice
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:45
|
|
|
Maybe I am an idiot and Great Man Stalin really was the crucial factor, but idk, the evolution of actual USSR state policy was a result of experimentation and adjustment to conditions of the ground, brought about by collective planning by the government bureaucracy. There wasn't really any great unifying theory dictated plan imposed from top down. It was my understanding that collectivization, private ownership and markets came in and out of favor multiple times as a response to organic developments
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:46
|
|
|
it’s less great man Stalin and more that of the batch of alt-history proposed replacements for him probably wouldn’t have pursued industrialization as ruthlessly as he did which turned out to be necessary later for winning ww2. stalin’s industrial program was necessary for the union’s survival but not necessarily Stalin himself per se
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:55
|
|
|
oscarthewilde posted:of course any scientific effort will be influenced by ideology and romanian, as much as any language, will have been influenced by external factors, but the category of 'romance languages' has a (strict) definition that moreover fits with Romanian. the end-result of your reasoning is unfettered relativism and scepticism. I could very easily believe you that that is how it is in reality. But we have been repeatedly surprised in the past by just how deep cultural hegemony can colour our analysis of the world. I wonder how actually strict that definition is and what ideological assumptions it might rely upon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:58
|
|
|
Kersaw explains this in detail, but Stalin wasn't a top down dictator anyway. He was a bureaucrat, a product of the party. He was the chairman, the boss, in a meaningful sense. So, in terms of leadership that could carry out the Soviet project, at the direction of the party, Stalin was the perfect person to hold the executive. Compare with Khrushchev or more devastatingly Gorby. It's not that Stalin was a great man who was deciding the destiny of the nation, it's that he was a loyal and competent administrator who was dedicated to seeing projects through, where other people winced away.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 13:59
|
|
|
the world revolution failed so Stalin created an ideology to justify the existence of commodities and the law of value in the USSR, he was also 100% aware that he was just making up bullshit to justify whatever he was doing at the time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:04
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1780174248213950479
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:09
|
|
|
Love that guy
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:12
|
|
|
evolution is amazing
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:14
|
|
|
Battle Barn
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:15
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:How many people did Stalin really send to prison, and how does it square against the current US mass carceral state? J Arch Getty says about 2.5mn at any one time  
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:17
|
|
|
the ukraine's going to claim to have destroyed this thing every day for the next year
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:23
|
|
|
What's the deal with this shed on wheels?Ardennes posted:Tell me first, get the calculator out >4 million Nazis op
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:35
|
|
|
DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Kersaw explains this in detail, but Stalin wasn't a top down dictator anyway. He was a bureaucrat, a product of the party. He was the chairman, the boss, in a meaningful sense. So, in terms of leadership that could carry out the Soviet project, at the direction of the party, Stalin was the perfect person to hold the executive. Compare with Khrushchev or more devastatingly Gorby. I remember reading Karl Schlögel's Moscow 1937 (which at the time I read it 10 years ago I thought was pretty fair for someone who obviously was anticommunist, but now I'm doubtful) where he tells a story about how Stalin would do personal passes on some Mosfilm productions.to make sure they were ideologically acceptable and would make the Politburo act scenes out, which I thought was 1) hilarious and 2) made him out to me to be someone who just was constantly working. Though now I guess the intent wasnto present him as this totalizing top down dictator. I also remember from the book he made the argument that the creation of a Soviet identity happened inspite of Stalin and his oppression and that making the 37 census a state secret showed just how many people died between the famine and the purges., which I'm willing to believe at least about the famine because well yeah a State is gonna try and down play that, like how the Dust Bowl is down played in American history
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:38
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:How many people did Stalin really send to prison, and how does it square against the current US mass carceral state? How many of them had it coming? Think of it like this. Imagine an alternate timeline in which the communist revolution in Germany in 1918-1919 succeeded, and Luxembourg takes power or whatever. And then in the next decades she sends millions of Germans to prison for reeducation. Sounds horribly totalitarian right? Except we know what those millions of Germans were ideologically prepared to do. Maybe they really did need reeducating? Maybe that would've been a net benefit to humanity? Well, we also know what a lot of people inside the USSR proper were ideologically prepared to do. Because when the German Nazis arrived, they did it! Not to even mention the poo poo the Whites got up to. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 14:45 on Apr 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:43
|
|
|
AFancyQuestionMark posted:This probably isn't the right thread for me to be making GBS threads up with this, but I don't believe this whole "the problem with the purges is that they didn't go far enough" narrative. As if removing enough people would eventually leave you with only ideologically disciplined true hardcore stalinists that wouldn't have done liberalization and lead to Gorbachev and perestroika. I think this is incredible wishful thinking and is a pretty anti-materalist understanding of history the cultural Revolution was a huge success for China so idk if you are right. to your last paragraph : does Stalin even win ww2 without putting liberals in reeducation in the 1930s? he seemed to think it was necessary
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:48
|
|
|
PawParole posted:the world revolution failed so Stalin created an ideology to justify the existence of commodities and the law of value in the USSR, he was also 100% aware that he was just making up bullshit to justify whatever he was doing at the time. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:50
|
|
|
my hot take is stalin is no better or worse than most US presidents and as such i don't really give a gently caress in 2024. nearly anything i can read in english is only going to be so far removed from cold war propaganda anyway.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:53
|
|
|
PawParole posted:Natbol fascists think that Stalin was the reincarnation of the Slavic iron-working god Svarog (basically Vulcan) they're right
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:55
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:How many of them had it coming? alternatively, the nazi collaborators existed because the soviet regime had murdered their friends and family a few years prior
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:55
|
|
|
euphronius posted:the cultural Revolution was a huge success for China so idk if you are right. to your last paragraph : does Stalin even win ww2 without putting liberals in reeducation in the 1930s? he seemed to think it was necessary I mean, all the main backers of the Cultural Revolution ended up removed post-Mao, and Deng managed to get himself reinstated and institute market reforms and "30% wrong" assessment too, and it ended up working fine so idk how much the Cultural Revolution really mattered in the very long run
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:55
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:56
|
|
|
Weka posted:What's the deal with this shed on wheels? The official numbers on the great purge were about 680,000 in terms of executions, and dekulakization was maybe 250-350k. Otherwise, there is the Great Famine and the the deaths during the war including the high death rate in the Gulag, but arguably there is a lack of intention there. The moving barn is suppose to draw fire either on the field or back at base. It seems like it had become a direct nemesis to the Ukrainian state if not the entire free world. —— Arguably the Soviet state and its direction was much bigger than Stalin, but he was also the central figure that took the state through the 1930-1934 crisis, the purge (which probably was going to happen), the war and then the 1946-47 famine. Basically the five year plan and dekulakization would have happened (and so would have the famine) but in an alternative scenario the country may have just broken down into civil war or economic collapse at multiple points even before 1941. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 05:49 on Apr 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:57
|
|
|
It's all class relations and material conditions anyway
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:57
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:it’s less great man Stalin and more that of the batch of alt-history proposed replacements for him probably wouldn’t have pursued industrialization as ruthlessly as he did which turned out to be necessary later for winning ww2. stalin’s industrial program was necessary for the union’s survival but not necessarily Stalin himself per se What's Stalin's Wins above replacements number compared to, say, Tzar Nicholas or Peter the Great? That would be a useful metric to judge his success by.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:58
|
|
|
Enjoy posted:alternatively, the nazi collaborators existed because the soviet regime had murdered their friends and family a few years prior Doesn't explain Germany.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:58
|
|
|
Enjoy posted:alternatively, the nazi collaborators existed because the soviet regime had murdered their friends and family a few years prior A lot of them were in newly acquired parts of the USSR that had never experienced the purges, like, for example, western Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:59
|
|
|
More details on the guy's death Ukraine's Telegram was kinda mad about. https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/107840 quote:🇺🇦 Last night, Ukrainian sources raced to report on the grim news from the front, hinting at the passing of the well-known Ukrainian figure. However, it was soon clarified that they were referring (https://t.me/boris_rozhin/120335) to Pavel Petrichenko, a volunteer and sergeant in the 59th Motorized Brigade. If that's true, then many of Ukraine's soldier are pissing away their soldier pay on top of fighting a losing war.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:59
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:Doesn't explain Germany. are you saying that there is some essentially nazi trait that flares up in a proportion of all humans and has to be violently purged because that's a completely anti-materialist take
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 15:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 23:49 |
|
|
continued from hereSplitSoul posted:You're using another NED-funded nazi outfit to debunk her, though. splitsoul if you can find a better or more complete transcription of that speech I'm happy to hear it. I noted I couldn't vouch for the translation myself, I just found it more plausible
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 15:01
|
|
