[Succ] big fan of liberalism but democracy seems kinda cooked

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Succ] big fan of liberalism but democracy seems kinda cooked

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

In the live action version, isn't Gaston implied to be crippled by PTSD from Louis the XIV's wars? I swear there were articles about that.

this the kinda poo poo that lets you know you're reading an FF post

# ? Apr 16, 2024 13:17

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:04

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

In the live action version, isn't Gaston implied to be crippled by PTSD from Louis the XIV's wars? I swear there were articles about that.

Yeah, about half of the Strasbourg region annexation was done diplomatically (okay through "diplomatic" military pressures) which somehow enraged the German princes because it was unfair, Roussilon was annexed through good old marriage, I believe. Maybe Gaston went mad doing diplomacy. The real wars were the War of Spanish Succession and its useless prequel the 9 years' war. So gaston lost his mind to put a bourbon on the Spanish Throne. Note that the current Legitimist Royalist candidate is a Spanish bourbon, which would break the treaty of Utrecht, which forbids a Spanish bourbon to succeed to the French Throne. Invalidating that treaty would sure be cool for the Spanish, since I believe it's the one giving Gibraltar to the English. Not sure Great Britain would like the idea.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 13:28

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

Waiting for the Beauty and the Beast x Deer Hunter colab

# ? Apr 16, 2024 13:32

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Toplowtech posted:

Yeah, about half of the Strasbourg region annexation was done diplomatically (okay through "diplomatic" military pressures) which somehow enraged the German princes because it was unfair, Roussilon was annexed through good old marriage, I believe. Maybe Gaston went mad doing diplomacy. The real wars were the War of Spanish Succession and its useless prequel the 9 years' war. So gaston lost his mind to put a bourbon on the Spanish Throne. Note that the current Legitimist Royalist candidate is a Spanish bourbon, which would break the treaty of Utrecht, which forbids a Spanish bourbon to succeed to the French Throne. Invalidating that treaty would sure be cool for the Spanish, since I believe it's the one giving Gibraltar to the English. Not sure Great Britain would like the idea.

I can't wait to go over the hills and far away for King Charles lol.

My impression from the costuming is that the live action version is set much later than the animated film, because maybe they could have done something interesting akin to Martin Guerre if it was set earlier. The themes of identity and disguise, as well as the villagers being roused to love or hate by charismatic figures could at least be teased out more if Gaston was a Martin Guerre figure or something, idk. More to the point, at least the opera and film versions are about how the war against the Huguenots affected people, and society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hYXh6CUiN8

Circling back, the relationship between LeFou and Gaston makes more sense if they went through the war together, but the live action film just reduces this to a crush LeFou has on him? Or something?

I'm very confused the more I read about this live action version: "the Villagers' admiration of him is partially out of obligation to his wartime heroics.", and more confusingly, the chronology which makes no loving sense:

Evans: "I saw massive potential to create backstory and layer him up with intention and objectives. The fact of the story is that Gaston is a war hero and an army captain, and the only reason he�s got this celebrity status in Villeneuve is because when he was about 16, he protected the town from a pack of Portuguese marauders in 1740."

Evans: "Don�t ask me, but that sort of s� went on in France quite a lot. [Laughs] Villages and towns were besieged, they lost their mayors, but he defended them. But if you�re 16 and doing that, you might be suffering from a little PTSD. So we played it dark. When I first met [director Bill Condon] he asked me to play him darker. There was a lot of anguish inside him, bubbling away. And he wasn�t happy that Belle had rejected him. Instead of being this petulant pouting child needing to be fluffed up by his fans in the tavern, there was a much darker side to him. And we sent that to Disney, and� there was a delay."

Evans: "Also, the best villains are not villains from the beginning. They turn into villains. He probably does suffer from PTSD, which he manages to keep under wraps because he has people like the villagers and LeFou and the girls who puff him up and make him feel sexy and wanted. But below that is a broken human being. He�s jaded, and the second he realizes that he�s not going to get what he wants, this military creature comes out of him."

Evans: "Josh had a huge arc to create with this character which involved my character. He became a very sensitive guy who understood the right and the wrong, even if he was slightly blindingly following Gaston. But they have a history. They were at war together. LeFou was with him during those conquests, protecting the town. Only through LeFou are Gaston�s heroic moments from 20 and 30 years ago kept alive. They work symbiotically with each other and this is what I love about their relationship: they wouldn�t work without each other."

:psyduck:

So it's set in 1770? Gaston was away, but also defending his own hometown? He's just back from the wars, but also it was 20 or 30 years ago? What?

# ? Apr 16, 2024 13:53

Jon Carbuncle: Sep 21, 2002; Soiled Meat

y�all put way more thought into the live version of beauty and the beast than the people made it

also if we are heaping scorn onto that movie belle�s dress is absolutely terrible

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:04

PoundSand: Jul 30, 2021; Also proficient with kites

Strangelet Wave posted:

we do this insane thing where we administer the welfare state through the tax system. my wife and I hosed up our withholdings (?) (maybe?) (i feel like we had this problem last year and fixed it!) and owed thousands of dollars at tax time. we got the child tax credit but it didn�t feel like we did because it got dwarfed by the big check we wrote to the government. feels like we might as well have got nothing at all.

conversely on years where we had large tax returns, we didn�t have that tax credit, yet it was as if we got paid nevertheless

its like welfare is supposed to be invisible, undetectable, certainly not anything the government can just *go and give* to people. actually its all just about how well my wife and i can do accounting. skill issue. go pay someone at H&R Block about it if you don�t like it

did they do something weird with w-4�s in the past couple of years?

I swear I�ve heard more and more stories about surprise tax bills these last few seasons and I don�t really get how it happens because that�s all stuff that happens on the backend that you don�t really have to worry about if you get the bulk of income through payroll. My boss has zero dependents, doesn�t really get any money from investments or such, allegedly claimed nothing on his w-4 and in fact tells me he has it set up so they withhold an extra chunk per paycheck and still he ends up owing a couple grand. Considering our payroll is the same, I actually owed a bit on 1099�s this year and I still ended up slightly positive on my return it just doesn�t make sense to me.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:05

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

Forget it FF, it's Disney slop designed primarily to maintain their IP protections

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:17

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

SixteenShells posted:

reminds me a little of Brotherhood of the Wolf, but in reverse I guess

Beauty and the Beast of G�vaudan

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:23

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

In the live action version, isn't Gaston implied to be crippled by PTSD from Louis the XIV's wars? I swear there were articles about that.

quote:

Gaston Glock was probably the most influential handgun designer since John Moses Browning. Glock products revolutionized handgun designs, and even how those handguns were used. Barely four decades after the first Glock 17 pistol, Gaston Glock�s firearms dominate the law enforcement and civilian handgun markets, while maintaining a significant military presence as well.

quote:

The gun we see Gaston carrying is obviously a blunderbuss, but there is much more to it that that. The gun is a historical, locative, and economic statement that sheds new light on the world of 'Beauty and the Beast'. Let's over-examine that, shall we?

The basic definitions of the blunderbuss are that it is a muzzleloader [the powder, wadding, shot, and over wadding are loaded and seated into the chamber one at a time], which has a short barrel, and flared muzzle.

It was never a very common arm. All arms could be divided in two lots, military and hunting, with a good deal of overlap between the two, esp. amongst civilians using salvaged, abandoned, and take-home guns from military sources. The guns that would have been more common in the hands of civilians would have been trade muskets. A trade musket was a non-flared smoothbore gun, normally of 20 bore, and with a 32in. barrel or longer. During the colonial era of North America, 90% of all guns, of all types, were trade muskets. The fact that Gaston is using a blunderbuss, originally a cavalry weapon, tells us that there is a strong possibility that Gaston doesn't just hunt for fun - he was a game warden for the state.

In the ancient regime of France, only the nobility could hunt. Serfs were mandated to agriculture, or illegal poaching in hard times. Gaston carries his trophies around with him - highly dangerous should he not be allowed to do so without a warrant.

The flared muzzle of the blunderbuss was NOT to spread the little pellets of lead [called 'shot' - hence the word shotgun], the bell was to help a semi-stable horseman load the powder from a pre-wrapped cartridge, which would have been homemade, and to help pour the shot down the barrel. To get an idea of how hard this is to do - stand on your bed and walk in circles. Pour sand into a half inch PVC pipe segment with spilling any sand, and pour a handful of beads onto the sand. Now try the same thing into a funnel over the pipe, and you'll easily see how the bell end of the blunderbuss was so desired.

But why would a man like Gaston carry a cavalry weapon, esp. when he is never seen mounted on a horse? Well - money. Muskets cost cash, so why not reuse a blunderbuss from the armoury? It's not hard to use, and you loose nothing with the grant of the arm, so why not reserve the muskets for the army/militia, and give the Game Warden something that was not more than a toss away? The gun also had a band - whereas most had pins to secure the barrel to the stock. The gun was probably made of a cut down musket, and a saved blunderbuss barrel. Perhaps a horse stepped on the original and snapped the wrist? We'll never know.

To Gaston's credit, he's not a dummy. He's a swarthy dick, but not stupid. Guns are easy to use, esp. when you get store bought ammo, but Gaston would have loaded his own cartridges, and cast his own shot and ball, and maybe knapped his own flint.

Different types of shot are used for different game animals - small 9,8,7,or 6 shot is used for game like rabbits, partridges, dove, grouse, etc. Bigger shot like 0, 00, and 000 buckshot would have been used for medium sized game and dangerous animals like deer, wolves, and mad dogs. [ps- Gaston was the guy who would have had to risk his life putting down rabid feral dogs that often roamed the street of French cities, which was probably why he was popular.] And large singular spheres, literal musket balls, would have been used for the biggest animals, like boar, and bears. The same balls were made with 10% tin, and 90% lead - which gives us the word 'hardball.' Gaston would have had to know which alloy went to which game, and how dangerous things would have been at any given time. That's a hard skill to learn.

Notice that the barrel is grey, which means it's lower cost wrought iron [not cast iron], and not the shining yellow of a bronze/brass barrel. This was a cavalry weapon, as only the naval forces got copperic alloy barrels that could resist sea water corrosion. The normal calibers would have been 16 or 12 bore [aka 12 gauge], which are still in use today. A pound of pure lead was divided into segments, shaped like perfect spheres, and whichever size would fit into the bore of the gun, without a light gap, would have been it's listed caliber. A 0.729 inch ball of lead is 12 to the pound, so it's a 12 gauge, and so on, The smaller the number, the bigger the gun, and visa versa.

And finally note how much of a flare the gun is making in the tavern [very unsafe to shoot indoors, but whatevs], and how the entire tavern isn't a solid cloud of smoke. Black powder, real black powder, gives off bilious clouds of smoke. His gun had a lot of flare due to a short barrel, and unburnt powder not burning inside of the bore before the shot left the muzzle. But very little smoke meant Gaston was either re-corning standard military powder [probably twice over with his own urine], or making his own powder outright. There would have had to have been a big charge of powder to get any shot or ball to a killing speed with that inefficient, short barrel. Gaston was more a scientist/ physicist that Belle's father!

So yeah, the bravest, most responsible, and really the smartest man in the entire provincial town was a government employee with a crappy gun that he made the most of - and he would have been a great husband if he would have quieted down a bit, which he may have, if we would have socialized more and been in the loving woods less.

quote:

I'll admit right up front that I've always been a Gaston fanboy. I went into this movie with some expectation that they'd make Gaston more villainous (since he was said to be darker), but, in my book, they actually made him vastly more sympathetic than the 1991 version. To be sure, he does take a very stark turn, but I'm most interested in his character before that point. Let us judge the 2017 Gaston on his own merits: (I'll refer to the animated version as Gaston 91, and the live action one as Gaston 17)

Unlike Gaston 91, Gaston 17 approaches Belle with civility and downright chivalry. After making his way through the crowd of villagers (politely asking them to let him by), he greets her, attempts to cater to her interests (books) without denigrating them, without bringing in his own as more important (hunting). He offers her flowers and asks to have dinner with her, again, very politely. When she bluntly shoots him down (perfectly in her right to do so), he accepts it with grace, even if his body language betrays some heartbreak.

While discussing Belle with Le Fou, Gaston 17 explains that what he finds so outrageously attractive (his own words) is that she has dignity. Gaston 91 never expresses any reason for wanting her other than that she is the most beautiful (Gaston 17 also cites this as a reason, in all fairness).

When the villagers mistreat Belle for daring to teach a young girl to read, Gaston chooses Belle over the villagers that, to a man, adore him. He goes to her to comfort her, and (aside from stepping on her garden), is considerate of her once more. He doesn't go into Gaston 91's diatribe about how terrible it is for women to read or think. He doesn't try to convince Belle to accept his life plan of pumping out 6 boys. He does make it clear he wants a family with her, but does so relatively tactfully, without any other expectations set. In other words, no stated preference for boys over girls. No indication that he would have a problem with her teaching a hypothetical daughter of theirs to read. Just reasonable (if self interested) proposition. He wants her to marry him, he wants to raise a family with her, and he wants to take care of her in her old age (referencing the spinster Agathe). Hardly a superficial misogynistic proposal like Gaston 91 barging into her home.

When Belle shoots him down again and in no uncertain terms, he still takes it gracefully and does not yell at her. He goes to drink at the tavern without so much of a 'Belle will be mine!'

When Maurice comes barging in raving about the Beast, in a huge departure from Gaston 91, Gaston 17 goes out with Maurice to save her. Yes, it is clear that he is doing this to impress Belle, though that seems entirely reasonable to me.

While out in the woods with Maurice, Gaston is confronted by the magic of the Enchantress which causes the road to the castle to be overgrown and hidden, and, on top of that, revives the downed tree that forced Maurice off the normal path. Gaston is confronted with a physically impossible scenario, and still humors Maurice for a bit longer. He admits that he is helping Maurice because he wants to marry Belle, which Maurice takes offense to, where Maurice taunts Gaston (the guy trying to save his daughter) by telling him that he'll never marry Belle. Gaston finally loses it, decks Maurice, and goes full mustache twirling villain. From here on out, Gaston 17 is pretty much on par with Gaston 91, quite possibly more evil, but it took quite a bit to get there.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:28

Clip-On Fedora: Feb 20, 2011

I think the real beauty and the beast is the one inside all of us

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:28

Excelzior: Jun 24, 2013

nobody gets over-analyzed like Gaston

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:30

Scarabrae: Oct 7, 2002

it�s unfortunate that any legitimate criticism launched at a film these days comes off as anti-woke chudisms

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:30

RandolphCarter: Jul 30, 2005

Nichael posted:

I love birds.

ok usidore.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:30

StealthArcher: Jan 10, 2010

Scarabrae posted:

it’s unfortunate that any legitimate criticism launched at a film these days comes off as anti-woke chudisms

Thank Sony and all the idiots who bought in for that

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:41

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

https://twitter.com/tungpusten/status/1780229999619944508

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:42

SixteenShells: Sep 30, 2021

Wait but wrought iron is more labor intensive to create and has better tensile strength than cast iron. I don't think you'd ever use cast iron for a musket barrel unless you really had to?

Are they thinking of the lovely iron railings or something that we call "wrought iron"?

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:47

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

Clip-On Fedora posted:

I think the real beauty and the beast is the one inside all of us

I think the real beauty and the beast is the 80s tv series with Linda Hamilton and Ron Perlman

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:51

HashtagGirlboss: Jan 4, 2005

PoundSand posted:

did they do something weird with w-4�s in the past couple of years?

I swear I�ve heard more and more stories about surprise tax bills these last few seasons and I don�t really get how it happens because that�s all stuff that happens on the backend that you don�t really have to worry about if you get the bulk of income through payroll. My boss has zero dependents, doesn�t really get any money from investments or such, allegedly claimed nothing on his w-4 and in fact tells me he has it set up so they withhold an extra chunk per paycheck and still he ends up owing a couple grand. Considering our payroll is the same, I actually owed a bit on 1099�s this year and I still ended up slightly positive on my return it just doesn�t make sense to me.

There�s all sorts of ways to gently caress withholding but anecdotally the people who I know who get the biggest surprise tax bills are people who work multiple jobs and each job is only withholding based on what it�s paying but when you aggregate all the income you were withholding in the wrong brackets

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:56

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

SixteenShells posted:

Wait but wrought iron is more labor intensive to create and has better tensile strength than cast iron. I don't think you'd ever use cast iron for a musket barrel unless you really had to?

Are they thinking of the lovely iron railings or something that we call "wrought iron"?

Bronze guns could be cast, but iron has to be worked or reinforced to withstand firing. If you look at civil war era iron guns, the cast parts needed reinforcing bands of wrought iron so they wouldn't burst.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 14:57

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

It's obvious Luke Evans did the classic thing of, "Come up with an unspoken backstory for your character," but instead of that not showing up in the movie paper, they just let that inform the movie which inadvertently says, "People with PTSD are doomed to be put down like dogs." Now, in the A24, you make him win, kill the Beast, but get yelled at by Belle that there was good in the Beast, and you have a morally ambiguous ending - that's pathos, baby. Can the rich truly have good on them? Are they all monsters? Have these inhuman times made us all human monsters?

# ? Apr 16, 2024 15:03

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

please take Disney chat to the cspam Disney adult thread

# ? Apr 16, 2024 15:19

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

post hole digger posted:

please take Disney chat to the cspam Disney adult thread

THIS IS ~~CETI ALPHA FIVE~~ the disney adult whatever you said

# ? Apr 16, 2024 15:23

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018; Can't post for 11 hours!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Or put the slightest thought into how other people's problems come to exist.

The problem even comes from how boys aren't really raised so much as kept alive and vaguely presentable to adulthood.

I think a bigger issue is that if you start dating a 20 year old man, when you break up with him three years later he�s probably going to be significantly better at taking care of himself than when the relationship started no matter what you did, because he�s not 20 years old anymore.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 15:26

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://x.com/SenSchumer/status/1780240173684433075

# ? Apr 16, 2024 15:35

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/SenSchumer/status/1780240173684433075

We're going to keep [...] even more Americans burdened by student debt.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 15:42

PoundSand: Jul 30, 2021; Also proficient with kites

You know I never really considered that taking steps to improve the life of your SO was debt that needed to be paid back.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 15:46

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

PoundSand posted:

did they do something weird with w-4�s in the past couple of years?

I swear I�ve heard more and more stories about surprise tax bills these last few seasons and I don�t really get how it happens because that�s all stuff that happens on the backend that you don�t really have to worry about if you get the bulk of income through payroll. My boss has zero dependents, doesn�t really get any money from investments or such, allegedly claimed nothing on his w-4 and in fact tells me he has it set up so they withhold an extra chunk per paycheck and still he ends up owing a couple grand. Considering our payroll is the same, I actually owed a bit on 1099�s this year and I still ended up slightly positive on my return it just doesn�t make sense to me.

Your boss makes far more money than you do and now has to pay taxes on it. He's flexing on you when he complains like this.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:01

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/SenSchumer/status/1780240173684433075

this is a transparent ploy in secure support 7 months out from the election and it will work

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:10

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

I'm not so sure it will if under 30s are as furious about Gaza as they seem to be. It all hinges on how seriously people intend to carry through with their uncommitted votes.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:12

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

forgive the loans, don't forgive the loans, doesn't matter to me as i am no longer able to pay them

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:13

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

I'm not so sure it will if under 30s are as furious about Gaza as they seem to be.

you are correct. given gaza will stuff like this be enough? bear in mind this is just in reference to biden talking about doing things. I don't expect him to actually do anything w/r/t student debt, abortion, drug legalization, etc.

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:13

HallelujahLee: May 3, 2009

bedpan posted:

this is a transparent ploy in secure support 7 months out from the election and it will work

why it would work when it wont actually happen

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:14

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

bedpan posted:

you are correct. given gaza will stuff like this be enough? bear in mind this is just in reference to biden talking about doing things. I don't expect him to actually do anything w/r/t student debt, abortion, drug legalization, etc.

Probably not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQbK4OUsk0

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:14

HallelujahLee: May 3, 2009

its going to take months to supposedly put it into action (they double counted the numbers its much lower than 30 mil) and thats not even touching the point it already got sued and gets sent to scrotus and thats an auto dismissal

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:15

Automata 10 Pack: Jun 21, 2007; Ten games published by Automata, on one cassette

so what happens if you just don't pay your student loan anyways

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:16

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

idk if it will or not. I mean I didn't think anyone young would vote for him in 2020 and i was wrong then. people are pissed off about Gaza and everything else but idk if enough of them are "over" the two party system to say gently caress it and stay home. we'll see I guess!

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:16

HallelujahLee: May 3, 2009

turnout has been way down since 2023 so who knows

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:18

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

HallelujahLee posted:

its going to take months to supposedly put it into action (they double counted the numbers its much lower than 30 mil) and thats not even touching the point it already got sued and gets sent to scrotus and thats an auto dismissal

oh I have little doubt that this is all smoke that will never amount to anything. the entire thing is to shore up support from liberals and progressives who just want to hear the liturgy

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:18

HallelujahLee: May 3, 2009

bedpan posted:

oh I have little doubt that this is all smoke that will never amount to anything. the entire thing is to shore up support from liberals and progressives who just want to hear the liturgy

fair point at minimum the liberals will

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:19

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:04

Automata 10 Pack: Jun 21, 2007; Ten games published by Automata, on one cassette

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/SenSchumer/status/1780240173684433075

lol it's fun reading the explainer because it points out how hosed the program is anyways and this is just a few bandaids on the whole process. reduced unpaid interest on borrowers who owe more in interest than what they borrowed and a "relief" program for those who have had debt for decades.

things that needed to be done with the interest rate hikes

Automata 10 Pack has issued a correction as of 16:23 on Apr 16, 2024

# ? Apr 16, 2024 16:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Succ] big fan of liberalism but democracy seems kinda cooked

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