(Thread IKs:
muscles like this!)
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Movies are independent units of story, not serials
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Apr 17, 2024 01:30
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hrmm i think a little series called star wars would disagree with that
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Apr 17, 2024 01:36
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Star Wars movies are built to recapture the feeling of a serial in that they generally start in medias res with minimal establishing context, but they still tell more-or-less complete stories in each installment and have complete arcs on character/emotional/narrative levels. We have a word for movies that don't have arcs: "bad." There are rare exceptions, but yeah.
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Apr 17, 2024 01:39
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To be clear, a good episode of television will do much the same thing on a smaller scale, but we're not expecting a single episode of a television show to wrap up most major running plot threads
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Apr 17, 2024 01:46
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Don't know if it is a Disney Plus issue or what but the episode of X-Men with Captain America has really terrible sound mixing.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:02
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The question was why is it ok for shorter forms of entertainment to have self contained mysteries that get discussed or digested after the fact but but discussing a show season after the fact, rather than while in progress, kills all reason for there to be mystery? To be clear, i certainly understand that some people want to discuss the stuff as it's unfolding, but that desire does not give validation for the existence of a mystery in a show.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:14
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bull3964 posted:The question was why is it ok for shorter forms of entertainment to have self contained mysteries that get discussed or digested after the fact but but discussing a show season after the fact, rather than while in progress, kills all reason for there to be mystery? For me, it is about the "event" aspect. You go see a film opening weekend, it is a singular event. It is a singular piece of media. You can go talk about it afterward with people and discuss the film and pick it apart and that's great. With modern TV shows, you have 8-10 pieces of media that combine to make a whole. With a weekly model, each of those pieces of media become an "event." Each week, you're given another piece. And you're given time to think about it and digest it. When you release an entire season at once, instead of getting 8-10 events, you get one. Each individual episode isn't given space to stand on their own. You are only able to see the whole. Granted, if you come to a show years later, you're dealing with the whole. But with the binge model, viewers aren't given options. You can be pro-binge, and that's fine. Wait and watch it after the final episode airs. Pro-binge model is basically saying "my way is right and everyone should have to adhere to my model." Weekly model allows weekly viewers to enjoy it and binge viewers to also enjoy it - just at different times.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:26
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I prefer a show drop all at once because that means less chance they start dicking around with release schedules in countries that aren't the US
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Apr 17, 2024 02:38
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bull3964 posted:The question was why is it ok for shorter forms of entertainment to have self contained mysteries that get discussed or digested after the fact but but discussing a show season after the fact, rather than while in progress, kills all reason for there to be mystery? It doesn't kill all reason for there to be a mystery. The reason there is a mystery is always because that is what they wrote and shot. The difference is how it is ingested and enjoyed along the way. When a show is first airing weekly, viewers can wonder what's going to happen next week and talk about it and speculate on a way they cannot when everything is already out. Either someone who already knows can just answer and snappily suck the air out of the suspense and intrigue, or they have to pretend you don't know or pretend you only knew what you knew when you hadn't seen the rest yet, or just ignore them to avoid inadvertently spoiling in response. We already have infinite media dumped on streaming to occupy everyone for the rest of their lives. Live performances and entertainment of all kinds are dwindling. People have always loved to sit around a source of light and experience stories together while seeing seemingly moving images, whether paint and fire light dancing on wall or figuring out how to watch survivor live as it first airs
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Apr 17, 2024 02:42
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Mordiceius posted:But with the binge model, viewers aren't given options. That's where I fundamentally disagree. That has ALL the options. If there is a community where you want moderated discussion, do it. I don't think the mods around here would have trouble with a [Weekly] discussion thread on a show that dropped all at once that had a watch schedule. People hold live watch parties of stuff all the time. There are rewatch threads, first time watcher threads for decades old shows. Literally nothing is stopping you from watching and enjoying the show the way you want, you don't need someone else's schedule to decide that for you.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:55
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You're right, we should build an entirely separate internet where people watch only one episode of Netflix shows a week so they can actually savor them instead of structuring television the way we've been doing it for eighty years.
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Apr 17, 2024 03:01
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The binge model is categorically worse for discoverability, discussion, hype, speculation, and audience-building. Hell, I'd even wager it creates perverse incentives that make the shows themselves worse. The sole benefit is that impatient viewers don't have to wait between episodes, but those waits are part of the design. It's bizarre that people say "you can just wait a week between episodes if it's that important to you" because no, you really can't, it doesn't work like that, the moment has passed by then. Ironically, bingewatchers can actually wait until the show is entirely out and then watch it all without losing anything, which is why this argument is so dumb. Just wait if you can't bear the suspense.
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Apr 17, 2024 03:10
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bull3964 posted:That's where I fundamentally disagree. That has ALL the options. It's also where you're fundamentally wrong. If a show is dropped all at once you are literally prevented from the experience people value with weekly releases. You aren't prevented from whatever nonsense you're suggesting that nobody is interested in, but nobody is really interested in that or talking about it. People here and elsewhere do sometimes do schedules group rewatches of things, it's a secondhand smoke way of huffing to recreate an original experience that can only ever happen once in history per show - where something is equally new to everybody who cared to watch and nobody knows what is going to happen next and can't do anything about that until next week. They get to have a fleeting feeling of anticipation and excitement in a way that helps boring work days pass faster. Whereas a big ol pile of media for you to dig through at your own pace will always be there once those premieres have occurred. Someone on this page was saying they were so excited for the finale of a show they were watching they wanted to see it right now but can't -- and that's good and cool. Delayed gratification is not inherently a bad thing, and having something frivolous to look forward to can be itself a good feeling.
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Apr 17, 2024 03:22
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bull3964 posted:That's where I fundamentally disagree. That has ALL the options. Are you not familiar with goons? I often avoid show threads if the show is based on a book that I haven't read yet, because it's impossible for some goons to not constantly drop a bunch of super obvious nudge-nudge wink-wink spoilers regardless of any rules. You can either constantly report them and listen to them endlessly whine about how everyone's a huge baby snowflake over spoilers, or just accept that you're going to know how the entire show will end by page 5 at the latest. Plenty of the assholes who used to proudly buy avatars full of spoilers for the lols are still around, you think they're going to just respectfully accept the rules of your special weekly thread?
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Apr 17, 2024 03:27
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Any good streaming documentary recs for any of the main services?
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Apr 17, 2024 03:28
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counterfeitsaint posted:Are you not familiar with goons? I often avoid show threads if the show is based on a book that I haven't read yet, because it's impossible for some goons to not constantly drop a bunch of super obvious nudge-nudge wink-wink spoilers regardless of any rules. You can either constantly report them and listen to them endlessly whine about how everyone's a huge baby snowflake over spoilers, or just accept that you're going to know how the entire show will end by page 5 at the latest. For what it's worth, I think the no-spoilers containment thread worked pretty well for the new dragons and incest show, although admittedly I'm not that invested in GRRM lore so I wouldn't have been irritated by accidental wink wink nudges revealing something. I liked that Fallout dropped all at once since I did have time to just sit down for 8 hours with it, but right now the thread for the show is a horrible REDACTED mess that's barely readable and I'm afraid to post there since, as you say, there is a huge amount of source material and it's impossible to know what could be a future spoiler  Conversely, I watched the first episode of Shogun when it dropped and decided to wait until it's done to binge it, since I know I would go nuts with weekly cliff-hangers in a show like that.
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Apr 17, 2024 04:06
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I will say I haven't kept up with the Fallout thread because I'm enjoying it at my own pace and I have assumed (I could be wrong!) that now it has been about a good week or so people are being less stringent about putting earlier episodes behind tags, and I don't want to risk being spoiled on stuff. On the flipside I wanna say again how appreciative I was that for the two years I was doing a blind first time watch of Mad Men, the thread I made for it was super careful and managed to not spoil a single thing that happened in all 7 seasons. Goons can be really wonderful sometimes 
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Apr 17, 2024 04:14
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I really do not miss following threads dedicated to weekly shows. Between goon face blindness, lack of basic attention, lack of patience with plots, and just general pessimism about every single thing, it’s never worth it. The only real exception I make is the Doctor Who thread because nearly everyone who posts in it is easygoing.
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Apr 17, 2024 04:23
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Jerusalem posted:I will say I haven't kept up with the Fallout thread because I'm enjoying it at my own pace and I have assumed (I could be wrong!) that now it has been about a good week or so people are being less stringent about putting earlier episodes behind tags, and I don't want to risk being spoiled on stuff. Rewatches of old stuff are pretty good about it because the folks still hanging around are just happy to see someone getting to see it all for the first time. Folks will go from untagged spoilers to spiking considerately if there's someone who is like "I just started DG-1 and --" Helps that X years later the people who hate a thing, aren't hating it in a way others commiserate with, don't even enjoy hating it and seem mad at having chosen to watch it, but won't stop watching and posting about it among people who generally seem to be enjoying and discussing it normally have moved on by then.
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Apr 17, 2024 05:01
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I figured it was coming, but the ending of this week’s Shōgun was devastating.
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Apr 17, 2024 06:22
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bull3964 posted:That's where I fundamentally disagree. That has ALL the options. Sorry, but this is where you are objectively wrong.
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Apr 17, 2024 06:26
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I figured it was coming, but the ending of this week’s Shōgun was devastating. Gonna be even more devastating after next week when there is no more of this beautiful show 
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Apr 17, 2024 06:35
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I don't have a strong opinion regarding releasing all at once or weekly, but talking about weekly shows was a bit more fun back when tv shows had more than 8-10 episodes, and didn't take two years to make a season.Mordiceius posted:Some of my favorite times were in threads for LOST and Glee. The Glee ones were especially fun as everyone turned from enjoying the show to absolutely loathing it and hate watching it. To this day no show has disappointed me as much as Glee did, it started out so great and became so bad at the end.
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Apr 17, 2024 07:03
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Arist posted:The binge model is categorically worse for discoverability, discussion, hype, speculation, and audience-building. Hell, I'd even wager it creates perverse incentives that make the shows themselves worse. This is unfortunately true. Netflix encourages its creators to construct their shows in certain ways, essentially to compell viewers to watch entire seasons in as few sittings a possible. Hence the by and large absence of separate episode types on their shows, replaced by what are essentially movies with seven to twelve piss breaks. You can tell when one of their shows was made by someone who started in television (YOU, Santa Clarita Diet, Orange Is The New Black) because they resolutely do not do that.
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Apr 17, 2024 07:15
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Arist posted:The binge model is categorically worse for discoverability, discussion, hype, speculation, and audience-building. Hell, I'd even wager it creates perverse incentives that make the shows themselves worse. You don't have to wager. Showrunners have come right out and said that Netflix demands specific pacing structures for episodes, down to the minute, where certain dramatic beats are expected to happen per episode to keep people watching a season. Want a nice slow burn to let the dramatic tension in your show build? Nope. Something crazy has to happen in the first four minutes or you don't get to keep your show. The SR for Blue Eyed Samurai said that Netflix only counts views in the first two weeks of a show's release to determine whether or not a season gets picked up. Hope you picked the right ending for your season or people will curse your name forever if you ended on a cliffhanger or tied things up too neatly. A binge-released season is Netflix's answer to the irrational demand that people want to know if they'll like something or not in its entirety before they watch it. Within a day, you can safely know if a certain media product will satisfy your expectations or not and that's a pretty terrible way to experience something that is purportedly art. Binge releases are also miserable for second screening. Human attention spans simply can't withstand more than a couple hours of watching at a time, so out come the phones. Netflix doesn't give a poo poo if you're on Instagram the whole time, because you'll still post your opinions the same way a rapt viewer will. A lot of people complain in this very forum that acting has become less subtle, that central plots and themes are overtly and repetitively stated, that there are too many blatant flashbacks, and that every joke gets lampshaded to death. This is done deliberately by producers so that second screeners will whine less about plots being confusing and hard to follow and the problems are compounded by dropping a whole season at once.
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Apr 17, 2024 07:42
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I really do not miss following threads dedicated to weekly shows. Between goon face blindness, lack of basic attention, lack of patience with plots, and just general pessimism about every single thing, it’s never worth it. Yeah there's some real rose tinted glasses in here about weekly threads. There are some exceptions but the vast majority of weekly threads consist of pages of reactions on the day of the viewing, then from a day or two onwards it's mostly just boring theory crafting that turns into posters arguing with each other over and over again trying to outsmart each other, with the occasional post about wishing the new episode would air so everyone would shut up.
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Apr 17, 2024 08:21
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Weekly releases forever for like 90% of shows
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Apr 17, 2024 08:34
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Escobarbarian posted:Weekly releases forever for like 90% of shows What's in the 10% that you would exclude?
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Apr 17, 2024 08:52
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Pretty much just sitcoms that aren’t focused on plot and it’s fun to veg out and binge a ton at once. Ones where the weekly discussion isn’t gonna be much more than “this was funny / this wasn’t funny” and that are lower stakes than say a Community or whatever
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Apr 17, 2024 09:00
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With all the content that's out there I rarely ever follow a weekly schedule anymore, and just end up watching like 2-3 episodes a session of a show whenever I get around to it. I rarely binge an entire season at once, but still, forming your viewing habits around weekly discussions seems entirely alien to me at this point, even if I still post on these dead gay forums.
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Apr 17, 2024 09:42
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SimonChris posted:I think shows should be released like Twitch streams with live chat functionality. I miss live posting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiheRTcwkc4 See, this is what I'm talking about. Live reactions make it so much better. You can even re-release old shows this way. See also the Bob Ross marathon a few years ago that made him a phenomenon all over again.
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Apr 17, 2024 10:29
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I think the whole weekly/dump debate also hinges on season length. If we still had 26 season episodes like in 2008, dumping them all at once simply wouldn't be feasible. Not from a production point of view, but that's just too many to binge. I feel like all the streaming platforms kind of settled on 10 eps being the maximum length for binging, and that will take most people at least two but likely three sessions.
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Apr 17, 2024 10:46
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Holy poo poo X Men 97 inject it straight into my veinssss
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Apr 17, 2024 12:24
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Arist posted:The binge model is categorically worse for discoverability, discussion, hype, speculation, and audience-building. Hell, I'd even wager it creates perverse incentives that make the shows themselves worse. I think the surf Dracula effect has at least something to do with dropping shows all at once, too.
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Apr 17, 2024 12:49
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IRQ posted:I think the surf Dracula effect has at least something to do with dropping shows all at once, too. They're built for one climax, rather than a series of smaller, weekly stories. So a lot of drop shows build to a single show concept, where weekly shows have a clearly defined premise that they can play with week to week. Even something like Severance has a wacky office situation of the week, or a loosely character focused episode here or there.
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Apr 17, 2024 12:53
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Yeah as much as I enjoy having a show to binge on a lazy weekend, I am 100% on board with weekly being the better way to watch something if you want to discuss it. I can't imagine something like Severence or The Curse having the same effect on me without having a week to think about the crazy poo poo that happened.
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Apr 17, 2024 13:04
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We're a very biased sample. We're here because we like the chat. That opinion is gonna dominate.
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Apr 17, 2024 13:37
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SimonChris posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiheRTcwkc4 Their celebration of Space Ghost did bring up a really depressing fact that Andy Merrill, the creator of Space Ghost C2C, The Brak Show and voice of Brak is currently a loving Amazon delivery driver. Also Netflix's obsession with their binge model destroyed their version of The Soup when they insisted on filming a bunch of episodes at once instead of doing it weekly.
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Apr 17, 2024 14:24
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I haven't watched any of Shogun because I like to binge shows, so I just wait until the whole thing is out. It's pretty easy to avoid spoilers (also I've read the book so I can't really be spoiled per se). Only time I watch things week to week is if I'm watching it with other people. I think that there are advantages and disadvantages to both release schemes.
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Apr 17, 2024 14:59
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Open Source Idiom posted:We're a very biased sample. We're here because we like the chat. That opinion is gonna dominate. It's true IRL too. Tentpole shows like Fallout are going to interest me and my friends, and it makes it hard to talk about until everyone finishes, which takes away a lot of fun conversation and speculation. It's not very easy to chat with someone who is on episode 2 and you're on 4, or finished. Particularly if you binge it, because then the whole drat thing runs together.
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Apr 17, 2024 15:21
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