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Ulio posted:I liked how Bloodborne handled shields, it made them into a joke item and mocked the player. Augus posted:that’s a game about being a hunter, so you’re meant to play like a hunter.  The problem of the whole 'Bloodborne is good because it shuns the shield' argument is that there are major differences in how BB plays and how DS/ER plays. BB is a much faster game, where you're far more agile. Whenever you lock onto an enemy, press Circle/Dodge has you do a quick-step instead of roll, which is faster and keeps you oriented towards the enemy. If you do get hit, the Rally system makes it so you can immediately retaliate and recoup some of that health that you lost. The Hunter Weapons aren't as flexible as they are in DS/ER. BB weapons are set where you've got the melee weapon in the right-hand, and the ranged weapon in the left hand. You can't dual-wield/powerstance weapons, and you can't really mix-and-match things. In Dark Souls, you can dual-wield shields if you want (it's not very effective, but you have the freedom to do it). There's also far fewer weapons in BB than in DS/ER, with 26 melee weapons and 11 ranged weapons. Where this is offset is in the weapon transformations. Weapons like the Kirkhammer or Ludwig's Holy Blade are just simple swords, but when transformed, they becomes hard-hitting heavy weapons. Some have modes that change the reach of the weapon or the type of damage it does. However, weapons can be transformed during a quick step or a combo. You can hit an enemy twice with the regular blade of the Kirkhammer, then hit L1 and follow up with a third attack where you slam the stone onto and transform the weapon. It's not the same as two-handing in DS/ER, which can't be chained like that. The big thing, though, is equip load. Bloodborne doesn't have an equip load*. You can equip the Kirkhammer and Cannon together, but it doesn't affect your movement or stamina. In DS/ER, the overall weight of the gear you have equipped affects how quickly you can roll, and how fast your stamina regenerates. So what kind of gear are you using? Do you prefer being fast and attacking with quick, light attacks? Then you'll want to keep your equip load as low as possible with weapons like daggers and light armor. However, if you're wanting a setup where you wear full plate and attack with a greatsword or something, then that's going to weigh you down, and (unless you use a ring or something that increases equip load), you're going to have a slow roll. In that case, a shield or greatshield compensates for that. You aren't as fast, but you can absorb a lot of damage. Or rather, that's how it should work. I've never felt that you could do a true tank build in a Souls game, because even with something like Havel's Armor, you still take a good amount of damage, and so having the light/mid roll is necessary to dodge. My point though is that shield and greatshields are tailored towards setups where you're wielding slow, hard-hitting weapons. What I advise to people regarding shields is not to forsake it entirely, but figure out when you can find opportunities to two-hand your weapon and go in for harder (and in some cases, faster) hits. *Technically, BB did have an weight system (which affected stamina regen) at one point, but it was removed in a patch.
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Apr 19, 2024 22:35
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Epic High Five posted:I played DS2 and DS3 after I beat Elden Ring, and of course have replayed DS1 since (great Switch game), and it's funny because the #1 thing I missed from ER in all of them was guard counters. It solved turtling so thoroughly that they could make shields their own fully developed thing in ER, and the ability to shield up for a breather and leverage that into a devastating strike if you're paying attention and know when to strike is all the advantages of turtling without ever feeling like the dance of battle has been interrupted. It's also a whole rear end extra move for weapons that are big enough or if you don't mind taking a bit of damage because strictly speaking it goes off blocking with anything, even fist weapons i think in dark souls 1 and demon’s soul’s, simply using a shield provided you new attack windows when enemy strikes would bounce off, so a special move that does extra damage would be unnecessary. plus, dark souls has the opposite technique for breaking shields, and the move that i miss the most in elden ring: the universal kick
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Apr 19, 2024 23:29
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scary ghost dog posted:the move that i miss the most in elden ring: the universal kick What about a shadowless kick, would that count? 
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Apr 19, 2024 23:38
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Been trying to figure out how best to BB-ify Elden Ring, sans mods. By which I mean, aggressive and fast gameplay. It’s hard without quickstep, but I’m thinking it would have to be a character with high-END, so as to wear 60 poise kit and be maneuverable. A buckler or shield w/ Carian Retaliation, but also a fast weapon with decent stagger and, ofc, bleed affinity. So that’s basically what, bloodhound’s fang and / or spikeball fists? Rally’s unfortunately a wash — apparently the only way to even come close is a very specific build.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:46
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Always wear gear that rewards health/fp on backstab and critical, perhaps. Certainly in the spirit of it. Malenia's Great Rune? Literally Rally in the game, problem is you're done NG once you get it. Set yourself up for the NG+1 run? Cheat it in, though dunno if you can force the tower activation on... also it's pretty much a weaker Rally with a crappy trade off but Rally had a lot of the same flaws in BB so pretty on point lol. "Ah, this guy just kicked my rear end, I'd better throw myself back into his danger zone to recover HP while vulnerable to being finished off." Obviously Rally rules for the good BB player, take a hit, get your head back in the game, Ultra Instinct dodge and recover for free. I'm heavily biased to more pragmatic low-risk play myself. Considering the short range of claws and fists they are ideal for forcing you to get in there and hack ankles to death.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:55
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Basic Chunnel posted:Been trying to figure out how best to BB-ify Elden Ring, sans mods. By which I mean, aggressive and fast gameplay. Playing with mods atm and Bloodborne Quickstep is surprisingly tepid as an option anyway, the enemy tracking being so aggressive makes repositioning much less decisive than it in in Bloodborne. That was basically my last build though, running Eleonora's Poleblade with a parrying shield on a light equip load. If you wanted to you could try and make that work as a pseudo-rally build too with the godskin swaldling cloth too?
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Apr 20, 2024 00:02
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Basic Chunnel posted:Been trying to figure out how best to BB-ify Elden Ring, sans mods. By which I mean, aggressive and fast gameplay. bloodhound step and dual whips.
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Apr 20, 2024 01:07
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the main thing preventing you from playing Elden Ring much more aggressively is how difficult it is to make enemies flinch. you could pseudo-BB-ify Dark Souls 3 because just hitting enemies with a big hammer was enough to make anything but a boss enemy, some of the tougher knight NPCs, or a couple of stupid DLC additions not be able to hit you back with that in mind, the closest i got to replicating that freedom was using a bleed + frost weapon (this narrows your options a bit, i used a scythe) since either one of those effects proccing forces a flinch no matter what
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Apr 20, 2024 01:14
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the dark moon greatsword clips through the snow witch hat  this is seriously bugging the poo poo out of me
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Apr 20, 2024 01:26
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Epic High Five posted:Those two either just aren't great or are outclassed by others of the same type which isn't the worst because despite being worse they may cost less or cast faster, I think my biggest "God I wish this were better" spell is Ice Lightning, which is totally neurotic in how it reacts to geometry on the ground and is super expensive to cast, but like 20% of the time it will hit for absurd damage and a ton of frostbite so you just keep trying to figure out how to make it work without ever succeeding I felt this post on a visceral level
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Apr 20, 2024 01:33
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Gologle posted:I felt this post on a visceral level 
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Apr 20, 2024 01:37
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I'm thinking I'll leave my current, DLC-prep game right in front of Maliketh, just in case the DLC changes something pre-burning.
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Apr 20, 2024 03:46
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I beat absolutely everything in Fringefolk Hero’s grave but the little pointing statue icon is still superimposed on the cave icon on my map. Is that just a glitch or do I have to do something else to finish it? I beat the boss and got the little blue tendril thing that leads you back to the entrance.
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Apr 20, 2024 14:05
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It's not pointing to the Hero's Grave.
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Apr 20, 2024 14:09
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John Murdoch posted:It's not pointing to the Hero's Grave. What’s it for? I beat the game already so not worried about spoilers.
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Apr 20, 2024 14:39
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a primate posted:What’s it for? I beat the game already so not worried about spoilers. Some catacomb dungeon I think. Look it up on the map on fextralife.
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Apr 20, 2024 15:11
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SHISHKABOB posted:Some catacomb dungeon I think. Look it up on the map on fextralife. Fextralife map icon looks the same. Weird, guess it’s just supposed to look that way.
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Apr 20, 2024 16:23
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a primate posted:Fextralife map icon looks the same. Weird, guess it’s just supposed to look that way.  One of these statues with the blue arrow? Thats the only thing I remember like that. They're all pointing to various catacombs. Fake edit well I can't figure out screenshots sorry SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 16:36
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a primate posted:Fextralife map icon looks the same. Weird, guess it’s just supposed to look that way. Post a screenshot? I've never ever had one of the icons of the statues pointing at a dungeon fail to disappear. You know you can actually go to the statue and there will be a little trail going to the direction of the dungeon, in case that helps.
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Apr 20, 2024 16:37
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Apr 20, 2024 17:42
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That's just the icon for the dungeon on the map, it's not gonna go away. The statue pointing you towards the dungeon looks different. I found looking at the fextralife map that it doesn't have them lol sorry
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Apr 20, 2024 17:44
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yeah hero graves are a special kind of super-catacomb that get their own icon
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Apr 20, 2024 17:45
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:yeah hero graves are a special kind of super-catacomb that get their own icon Ah I see, makes sense. Thanks, it’s been driving me nuts
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Apr 20, 2024 19:24
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Watching some neat cut content videos. Looks like you could legitimately decline Melina’s accord and have Varre take you to the round table as long as you could reach the castle. Maybe the eponymous round table would’ve let you level up?
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Apr 20, 2024 21:38
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Ulio posted:I liked how Bloodborne handled shields, it made them into a joke item and mocked the player. This guy is spittin, shields are soy
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Apr 21, 2024 00:39
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Man Melania folds like wet cardboard when faced with the Blasphemous Blade.
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Apr 21, 2024 01:43
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I used Lion’s Claw with the fire monk curved greatsword, she doesn’t exactly crumple to it but the fight is a LOT more doable than it’s probably supposed to be when she’s constantly being pancaked with a flame art weapon.
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Apr 21, 2024 02:18
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Shields is my preferred character archetype in RPGs and usually they're dogshit so having them actually be viable is a not insignificant reason I like Elden Ring.
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Apr 21, 2024 02:25
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Bloodborne was the game that broke me from my shield addiction in other Fromsoft games. Elden Ring made shields awesome again, which is a win-win for the gameplay. I still prefer no-shield in most of my playthroughs, but it's great that its a good option again.
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Apr 21, 2024 03:55
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Just finished DS1 and picked up DS2. 1 does the shield decent but not great. Parry is a nice risk/reward. Definitely encouraged you to turtle with how much damage your shield can soak without getting stamina dry. Plus everything moves in bullet time compared to Elden Ring. DS2, at least so far, seems like they way overcorrected in trying to prevent turtling. Enemy combos drain your juice faster so you can't just block, wait, cheap shot the recovery. The tradeoff is it's easier to roll into attacks and rewards aggression. Plus I've found only one 100% phys block shield so far and it was behind a boss designed to teach you how to roll into the attacks. ER shield play is great imo. You can turtle well but get the satisfying clink on guard counters to keep the battle flowing. Plus a variety of shields that play into it. Some are even decent weapons with cool effects/ashes.
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Apr 21, 2024 05:17
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I love having a tiny shield with Carian Retaliation strapped to my back while 2-handing big bonks or greatswords, because being able to quickly 1-hand and parry comes in clutch against a lot of humanoid enemies (and other players). Ice Crest shield might be my favorite because it looks fancy as hell, only weighs 3, and gives +40 Robustness even when it's just on your back.
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Apr 21, 2024 05:20
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yea Bloodborne’s gameplay is tuned to put you in the shoes of a bloodthirsty Hunter that will throw themselves at the enemy and not let up.. in a similar vein, Sekiro is tuned to put you in the shoes of a master ninja acting with precision and lethality. Dark Souls and Elden Ring are about being a hosed up little guy sent on a sisyphean quest to take down living legends and somehow coming out on top through resourcefulness and sheer willpower. so yeah shields are nice to have.
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Apr 21, 2024 05:22
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Mustached Demon posted:DS2, at least so far, seems like they way overcorrected in trying to prevent turtling. Enemy combos drain your juice faster so you can't just block, wait, cheap shot the recovery. The tradeoff is it's easier to roll into attacks and rewards aggression. Plus I've found only one 100% phys block shield so far and it was behind a boss designed to teach you how to roll into the attacks. they were definitely trying to encourage more of a focus on aggression, although this isn't clearly telegraphed in the way that it is in bloodborne. once you finish up the first proper area (forest of fallen giants), you'll get access to a merchant who sells an infinite supply of lifegems, with the design intent being that taking a few hits during encounters is both expected and encouraged so long as you're smart about it you can still totally do a turtle build once you get access to greatshields and level up your END some, but it's one of the few entries in the series where being brave and swinging for the fences is actively encouraged by the basic design. if you've been wanting to try out something riskier like a two-hander build, it's a good entry to trial it out, IMO
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Apr 21, 2024 05:54
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Last Celebration posted:I used Lion’s Claw with the fire monk curved greatsword, she doesn’t exactly crumple to it but the fight is a LOT more doable than it’s probably supposed to be when she’s constantly being pancaked with a flame art weapon. malenia’s hard counter is pretty much any move with guaranteed stagger
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Apr 21, 2024 06:28
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Gully Foyle posted:Bloodborne was the game that broke me from my shield addiction in other Fromsoft games. Elden Ring made shields awesome again, which is a win-win for the gameplay. I still prefer no-shield in most of my playthroughs, but it's great that its a good option again. You can also just like, use a shield sometimes? Some enemies have rapid but low stagger attacks that can be difficult to dodge but trivially blocked and maybe even make the enemy recoil and open them up for a counter, shields are just a tool in your moveset that can be used when the situation is right
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Apr 21, 2024 08:50
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broke: moving on to the next ng+ because you ran out of somber ancient dragon stones woke: moving on to the next ng+ because you ran out of larval tears
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Apr 21, 2024 08:52
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scary ghost dog posted:broke: moving on to the next ng+ because you ran out of somber ancient dragon stones I gave one to Boc today and it did not feel good. Especially since I didn’t realize you needed to use the prattling pate to get his good ending
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Apr 21, 2024 09:45
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a primate posted:I gave one to Boc today and it did not feel good. Especially since I didn’t realize you needed to use the prattling pate to get his good ending what a waste. you shouldve used it to shift roughly eight levels in or out of endurance, depending on how specialized you feel you need to be
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Apr 21, 2024 09:58
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At this point I feel like my preferred play style in ER is always going to be big single unga bunga or powerstance, plus a fist or claw weapon (high damage, fast, low range, very low weight) and utility spellcast and/or bow for when I want to harass enemies. Current running build is dragon-themed oven mitt, bloodhound sword and pulley crossbow in main hand, and then carian’d small shield, beastcaster and snake sword in offhand (the latter being useful for prolonging face tanks). Played around with great dragonclaw but the art’s not to my taste, and at this point I can easily add zap juice to my bloodhound sword… when I’m not giving blood juice to the blood sword for the blood god, anyway. Man now I want to start another character that’s fully ARC / bleed themed, but I’ve run out of save slots
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Apr 21, 2024 10:27
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gonna commit thread heresy by admitting i don't understand the appeal of unga bunga bonk. my favorite weapons are powerstanced noble slender swords or misericorde with a carian retaliation shield. winged/halo scythe also pretty win.
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Apr 21, 2024 10:30
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