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Relentlessboredomm posted:This is the main reason I think the Pats should trade down. If they had the #1 overall pick and could choose their ideal QB that'd be a little different but right now that's not the case. Even if they draft someone who's not ruined by the current situation it'll take years to figure out if he's the guy or not bc the supporting cast will be garbage. I'd say Wash should do the same but Wash has a fuckload of picks in the 1st 3 rounds and already solid receiving corps. People keep trying to say Washington is set up way better. McLaurin is vastly more talented than any Patriot no argument. But they lost Samuel who was quietly their second best receiver and it’s not clear at all yet if Dotson is actually good or not. Logan Thomas will be 33 this season and almost didn’t make the roster last year. Despite these dubious advantages they ended up with the same record as New England and a better draft slot. Maybe because they didn’t have a QB  I will concede that Washington has a couple more early round picks this year and that matters. You can also look at this through the lens of the Jets. Is Marvin + Brisket much different than Wilson + Wilson? They did finish with 3 more wins but that’s like worst case scenario. They had no shot at the playoffs but also have a decidedly mid draft position with which to do anything about it. Are there any Jets fans out there happy about how things went with a young stud receiver and no QB? I don’t really have a problem with your post I just needed a launch pad for my rant and you mentioned Commanders receivers which is my pet peeve lately 
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Apr 23, 2024 03:35
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BillsPhoenix posted:If your a pats fan what's your draft plan this year to get into at least a wildcard next year? I would like to see Maye, and then a receiver and a tackle in whatever order they prefer. Hell probably at least one more receiver and OL depth in the middle rounds too. Defense can be a future problem. 2025 too far away to say. Gotta see how this year goes (probably very bad!), who’s a free agent, who might be available in a trade, who gets hurt, what draft big boards look like etc etc
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Apr 23, 2024 03:41
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:I see your point and feel it's good. I just can't shake my belief that drafting Maye with the team the way it's set up now makes the team worse not better and then we'll be like the Jets and drafting another QB in a year or two because we reached for this one when the team wasn't built to support one. I think the Jets problem is that they drafted a lovely QB and surrounded him by bad offensive coaches. Wilson wasn’t really a reach, he was just a miss. The fact is most QBs drafted will be bad. Maye is more likely to be bad than not, but he’s also way more likely to be good than someone taken outside of the 1st round.
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Apr 23, 2024 03:46
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Just take your loving coin flip for a decent QB as the universe intended. If you lose, you just do it again in 3 years knowing that the Pats deserve nothing less than 20 more years of QB shittiness.
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Apr 23, 2024 04:26
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60.
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Apr 23, 2024 04:36
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Docjowles posted:People keep trying to say Washington is set up way better. McLaurin is vastly more talented than any Patriot no argument. But they lost Samuel who was quietly their second best receiver and it’s not clear at all yet if Dotson is actually good or not. Logan Thomas will be 33 this season and almost didn’t make the roster last year. Despite these dubious advantages they ended up with the same record as New England and a better draft slot. lol i know, we've been through this and yes Mclaurin alone (ie having a true #1 receiver) is already a massive difference. Everyone else you listed is as good or better than what the Pats have on the roster so yes, they're an all around better receiving corps. and a combo of Brian Robinson and Ekeler are a better RB tandem than the Pats have as well. I'm not saying any of the skill groups are setting the league on fire, but they're solidly average meanwhile the Pats have a collection of dudes who are at best #3s in a real receiving room. And yes they have the same record bc Washington's o-line was horrific (they did sign a very good young center in FA so combined with their one great olineman at RG the interior is pretty solid now), their defense is pretty mediocre, their coach was clearly getting fired, they just got a new owner, and they didn't get a few intra divisional gimmes like the Pats. And in case you're curious who's worse, they still beat the Pats H2H last year. idk how to convince you that the Washington roster is better positioned for a rookie qb than the Pats but everyone in the league saying the Pats offensive roster is an absolute wasteland isn't doing it for the hell of it. I still don't think it's a terrible idea for Wash to trade down, but they're getting to pick from every other QB (besides Caleb) before then having two picks in the top 10 of the 2nd round followed by another 2 picks in the 3rd round all while their greatest area of need (o-line) is a super deep pool in the draft. It's a very good setup for them to have a solid offense very quickly if they get moderately lucky. Put another way, if the Pats had the #2 pick, McLaurin, just signed a very good young center, and had 2 high 2nd round picks I'd say them going QB is a solid idea but unfortunately that's not how things stand. As a Pats hater tho I hope they go QB and then get that Georgia WR who's always injured so I can laugh and laugh as they continue to be garbage on offense Relentlessboredomm fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 07:53
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I think the Team are in the same boat as the Pats - if you like the QB prospect available, pick em. If you have any doubts, pass. They're both going to suck for a while, and any trade down should next at least a 2025 1st which reduces the risk of not being able to go and get a guy you like next year. The only difference is whether QB2 is that much better/less risky than qb3
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Apr 23, 2024 08:41
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No offense to anyone one poster but I hate the "QB3" takes. It's all dependant on the quality of the class. If Maye or Daniels came out in 2022 they'd be a slam dunk "QB1", but does that change anything about their actual talent and possibilities? We've got the luck to have a high pick in a well-regarded class, able to pick a guy with high upside without having to spend any extra assets. That's actually a really rare thing, and why I say take the guy. At the end of the day it's going to come down to coaching more than anything, and none of us know if that's actually fixed or not.
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Apr 23, 2024 09:48
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all it’s describing is the order any player in that position comes off the board no one is saying maye or daniels is the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the class— it’s just shorthand saying that the pats selection will be between the 3rd QB drafted or whatever
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Apr 23, 2024 11:14
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I've seen lots of people use it exactly like that, actually - "QB3" dismissively as in "we get the leftovers Chicago and Wash don't want, that's why we need to trade down/take MHJ"
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Apr 23, 2024 11:18
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well that is unfortunately going to be the decision the pats have to make, barring a very surprising move by CHI/WAS
stuker fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 11:25
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I had a quick look back and I think I've convinced myself the pats should actually take a QB. Herbert, Richardson, Allen and Watson were all good to great. I guess it depends on whether they like all the top 3 or if there's a chance Washington snipes them. Maye and Daniel's are very different players.
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Apr 23, 2024 11:32
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stuker posted:well that is unfortunately going to be the decision the pats have to make, barring a very surprising move by CHI/WAS But the more important part of my post is that all three are quality prospects. An unfortunate choice (to me anyway) would be if there were just two legit guys and so they had to consider overdrafting Penix or Nix at #3
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Apr 23, 2024 11:42
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stuker posted:all it’s describing is the order any player in that position comes off the board …if you’re going to point out there’s no reason to believe the Patriots will get it right, well… 
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Apr 23, 2024 13:08
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This is such an insane argument. The Pats have more functional WR (2) than QBs (0) on the roster and one is more important than the other. Jacoby is a place holder/solid backup he isn't a real starting QB. Bailey Zappe isn't even deserving of being rostered and got cut in training camp last year. If Maye sits who cares, the team isn't winning poo poo this year even if they draft Marv. The point is you Maye, or Daniels, in there and start coaching them up and put them out when they are ready or the situation steadies itself out This is literally the family guy mystery box argument. "They can draft anything with the picks they trade from not taking a QB there, even a QB!" e: This is a good QB draft, team has no QB. They need WR and it's a deep WR draft. Next year is not a good QB class, why would you kick the can down the road to the shitter QB year when really good receivers have been coming out of every draft now double e: I reserve the right to say they should have drafted Marv if they take loving JJ McCarthy though Nodoze fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 14:06
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MHJ is the worst of the 3 options to me, exactly because there's so much stud WR talent coming out seemingly every year. If not QB, give me the 1-3 extra FRPs from the Giants or Vikings
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Apr 23, 2024 14:29
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Nosre posted:MHJ is the worst of the 3 options to me, exactly because there's so much stud WR talent coming out seemingly every year.  ) is a franchise guy, you trade out with someone who thinks differently and squeeze them for every drop, in part because you're probably going to need that capital to get your guy in the future.It's not even a regime-ending move if you're wrong so long as you land a franchise QB soon after!
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Apr 23, 2024 14:35
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Kurgarra Queen posted:Absolutely: if they don't think Maye or McCarthy ( This is where I am at. Draft Maye if you think he's going to be average to good but if some teams gives you a first next year, a first the year after, and like a 2nd and a 4th, take the haul and rebuild the team that way. edit: of course it all falls apart if Maye or Daniels is the next Mahomes or Allen or something. You are going to have to take the risk at some point.
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Apr 23, 2024 14:52
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Nodoze posted:This is such an insane argument. The Pats have more functional WR (2) than QBs (0) on the roster Can you please state your rationale for making this asenine claim multiple times now? They were 30th in the league for yards and last in the league in points per game. This is directly due to the WR's being absolute dogshit where if they were on any other team they would be WR 3/4 at best. You make it seem like we have this solid corps of WR's but poor Mac Jones just couldn't throw the ball to them to be effective. Did you even watch a Pats game this year. You take this WR corps we have now and add some 2nd round pick and put Drake loving Maye at the helm and we are winning 4 or less games this year.
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Apr 23, 2024 15:39
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Also Jacoby Brissett is pretty much the same caliber as our WR's right now. If you're going on a purely raw need argument, the answer becomes LT. They don't have a functional one currently.
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Apr 23, 2024 15:41
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Eh, Brissett is probably more serviceable than the garbage we have at WR.
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Apr 23, 2024 15:53
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I have no idea what the Patriots should or should not do in the draft. All I know is it brings me great joy to see all of this infighting about how to fix a dogshit roster.
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Apr 23, 2024 15:59
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Eh, Brissett is probably more serviceable than the garbage we have at WR. Bourne is fine. Pop Douglas looks like he is good.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:03
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I guess my problem with going with QB at #3 is... - It supposes that THIS draft, and specifically these top 3 players, are the only shot the Patriots have at getting a blue chip QB. I think this is just patently wrong. Franchise QBs are not exclusively drafted in the top three. And every time we're supposedly going to have a terrible QB draft, multiple dudes rise anyway. - Ignores the opportunity to acquire a hoard of picks which can be used to fast forward the rebuild and/or trade up for a QB later. - Will waste at least two rookie QB contract years and possibly stunt the QBs development with no support. - Ignores the likelihood that Mayo is a lousy coach who was hired due to a bad process involving cronyism, intellectual laziness and cheapness, and his staff is not capable of developing a QB. I'd rather they stockpiled picks, rebuild the roster, and when Mayo is probably fired and Bob Kraft is dead, the new coach can pick a QB.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:06
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stuker posted:all it’s describing is the order any player in that position comes off the board Maybe not what everyone means but there have absolutely been posts itt calling their pick “the third best QB”. Yeah they get a smaller pool to pick from but as noted nobody actually knows who is good. The Texans are pretty happy to have gotten QB2 last year. E: re the above, I feel like everyone is assuming the rest of their draft this year will suck rear end. If they hit on a couple good picks (which is definitely not a given) the QB will have a much softer landing Fair point that Mayo and co might be terrible coaches but if so it doesn’t really matter who they take the team will be awful til they’re gone and start over. I don’t think they should let “what if all of the worst possible scenarios happen” define their draft strategy. Docjowles fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 16:10
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I just think this whole THEY MUST TAKE QB NOW, ignores the opportunity cost from not trading. It's the same line of thinking that leads teams to under value future picks. The best way to maximize the return on that #3 is a trade with a desperate team, not a QB.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:16
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So long as you don’t talk to Tom Brady on a boat and lose those draft picks in the off-season
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Apr 23, 2024 16:20
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Mooseontheloose posted:This is where I am at. Draft Maye if you think he's going to be average to good but if some teams gives you a first next year, a first the year after, and like a 2nd and a 4th, take the haul and rebuild the team that way. Lucky for them, they happened to use the accrued draft capital the following year to acquire "sure-fire bust" Josh Allen.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:25
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Can you please state your rationale for making this asenine claim multiple times now? Yeah no poo poo the WR group wasn't good, I never said it wasn't. Mac Jones still played like poo poo and Bailey Zappe was even worse. The receiver AND quarterback play was bad, Jones wasn't just bad because DaVante Parker and JuJu loving suck They are getting Bourne back, got rid of Parker, added KJ Osbourne and presumably at least one rookie. That's already better than last year
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Apr 23, 2024 16:38
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Nodoze posted:Yeah no poo poo the WR group wasn't good, I never said it wasn't. Mac Jones still played like poo poo and Bailey Zappe was even worse. The receiver AND quarterback play was bad, Jones wasn't just bad because DaVante Parker and JuJu loving suck Is it? We'll see.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:39
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https://twitter.com/MikeClayNFL/status/1782782251228389833 lol lmao
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Apr 23, 2024 17:12
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Is it? Replacing Parker with Osbourne is an upgrade yes. Parker is always hurt and when he is on the field he can't get open ever
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Apr 23, 2024 17:14
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https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1782805127071519201 LOL I hadn't seen this before. NATE loving HACKETT
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Apr 23, 2024 17:16
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Looks legit to me. We should probably draft iDL or Safety in the 1st.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:16
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Calling Aaron Rodgers a Top 5 QB in 2024 is certainly a take
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Apr 23, 2024 17:18
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Imagine hitting post on a document that says the Jets are the second best team in the league. He needs to at least have an override to make Mahomes like a 12 It does have New England as only the *second* worst offense behind the Giants so we got that going for us
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Apr 23, 2024 17:19
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Docjowles posted:Imagine hitting post on a document that says the Jets are the second best team in the league yeah
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Apr 23, 2024 17:20
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Not just the second best team but the second best offense as well.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:22
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Nodoze posted:Replacing Parker with Osbourne is an upgrade yes. Parker is always hurt and when he is on the field he can't get open ever Probably an upgrade. We don't know what shape Bourne will be in when the season starts. Also, it's not a given that he ever comes back 100% from his tear. Whatever rookie WR they draft could be awful, or slow to adjust to the pro game. So as it stands now, they *might* be slightly better than last year's WR group if they take a QB at 3.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:29
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TheBizzness posted:Calling Aaron Rodgers a Top 5 QB in 2024 is certainly a take Also, how does it have the Jets DL ranked so poorly. Quinnen alone makes that unit really good.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:38
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