USCE 2024: Macklemore Is The New Michael Moore

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2024: Macklemore Is The New Michael Moore

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Obama started to normalize relations with Cuba, and a succeeding democrat administration probably would have continued it, but, welp

# ? Apr 24, 2024 05:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 3, 2024 11:12

Polybius91: Jun 4, 2012; Cobrastan is not a real country.

The Tiktok ban is a prime example of how liberal capitalism only supports free speech until someone with a big enough megaphone starts saying things it doesn't like and free trade until its market is the one being dominated by a foreign product.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 05:56

Magic Underwear: May 14, 2003; Young Orc

Polybius91 posted:

The Tiktok ban is a prime example of how liberal capitalism only supports free speech until someone with a big enough megaphone starts saying things it doesn't like and free trade until its market is the one being dominated by a foreign product.

I must have missed something, who is the person with the megaphone and what are the things he or she is saying?

# ? Apr 24, 2024 06:41

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

There has been discussion that the TikTok Ban bill couldn't get enough support until after 10/7, when the platform became the home for a lot of younger people very pissed off at the Gazan genocide

# ? Apr 24, 2024 06:43

PurpleSky: Jun 28, 2022

FlamingLiberal posted:

There has been discussion that the TikTok Ban bill couldn't get enough support until after 10/7, when the platform became the home for a lot of younger people very pissed off at the Gazan genocide

Ok but I'm unclear how selling TikTok would stop young folks from expressing their anger on the app. Would the purpose of selling it be to kill the app? Introduce new restrictions? All of the above?

# ? Apr 24, 2024 08:42

Sir Kodiak: May 14, 2007

PurpleSky posted:

Ok but I'm unclear how selling TikTok would stop young folks from expressing their anger on the app. Would the purpose of selling it be to kill the app? Introduce new restrictions? All of the above?

The claim is that TikTok, under the direction of the Chinese government, is pushing pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli content through a purposeful manipulation of what viewpoints get promoted rather than as a content-neutral consequence of what viewpoints are popular. The idea is that by divorcing TikTok from the Chinese government, this manipulation could be stopped.

quote:

Members of Congress, conservative activists and wealthy tech investors are renewing calls to ban TikTok in the U.S., arguing that the most popular content related to the Israel-Hamas war on the app has a pro-Palestinian slant that is undercutting support for Israel among young Americans.

TikTok has been the target of criticism for years because of its Chinese ownership and concerns about government control over the app, a relationship that both Democrats and Republicans say is a threat to the personal data of U.S. users.

Now, critics allege that TikTok is using its influence to push content that is pro-Palestinian and contrary to U.S. foreign policy interests. The claims about TikTok�s promotion of pro-Palestinian content are anecdotal, and they have been bubbling up on the social media platform X, in statements to the media and on conservative media outlets such as Fox News.

See, for instance, Josh Hawley:
https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1717505662601609401

Or this editorial by Mike Gallagher who delayed his retirement from the House just long enough to be able to vote on the three military aid bills and the TikTok ban:

quote:

How did we reach a point where a majority of young Americans hold such a morally bankrupt view of the world? Where many young Americans were rooting for terrorists who had kidnapped American citizens�and against a key American ally? Where were they getting the raw news to inform this upside-down world view?

The short answer is, increasingly, via social media and predominantly TikTok. TikTok is not just an app teenagers use to make viral dance videos. A growing number of Americans rely on it for their news. Today, TikTok is the top search engine for more than half of Gen Z, and about six in ten Americans are hooked on the app before their seventeenth birthday. And it is controlled by America�s foremost adversary, one that does not share our interests or our values: the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). TikTok�s parent company, ByteDance, is Chinese, and in China there is no such thing as a private company. As if to underscore the point, ByteDance�s chief editor, Zhang Fuping, is also the boss of the company�s internal Communist Party cell.

We know of TikTok�s predatory nature because the app has several versions. In China, there is a safely sanitized version called Douyin. That version, using much of the same technology, shows kids science experiments and other educational content, and its use is limited to forty minutes per day. Here in America, the application�s algorithm is exquisitely tuned to prioritize polarizing outrage and addictive, brain-numbing nonsense (at best) and dangerous propaganda (at worst). Put differently, ByteDance and the CCP have decided that China�s children get spinach, and America�s get digital fentanyl.

And we are absolutely hooked, with 16 percent of teens using it �almost constantly.� Today, 69.7 percent of Americans aged 12�17, 76.2 percent aged 18�24, and 54 percent aged 25�34 use TikTok. By tweaking the TikTok algorithm, the CCP can censor information and influence Americans of all ages on a variety of issues. It can shape what facts they consider accurate, and what conclusions they draw from world events.

If you doubt that the CCP would introduce bias�against Israel, against Jews, against the West, or anything else�into apps under its de facto control, consider that on October 31 The Wall Street Journal reported that Chinese web platforms Baidu and Alibaba have wiped Israel off the map�literally. The two most widely used mapping programs in China show the outlines of Israel�s territory but do not label it as Israel, and may not have for some time.

Note that no specific evidence of this happening has been presented. TikTok puts forward the argument that the imbalance is similar to that on American-run social media networks:

quote:

The difference in volume between content related to Palestine and content related to Israel is similar across platforms. For instance, if you look at public data on other platforms, such as Instagram, you'll find there are 5.7M total posts tagged #FreePalestine compared to 214K total posts tagged #standwithIsrael. Looking at public Facebook data, there are 11M total posts tagged #FreePalestine compared to 278K total posts tagged #standwithIsrael.

But elected officials would prefer to believe that young people are being manipulated than that they're having an authentic moral reaction. Further, there's plenty of anti-Chinese hawks (note the bundling of the TikTok ban with military aid to Taiwan) who are happy to stick a finger in China's eye by forcing the sale of a successful Chinese company. Similarly, some worry about future Chinese propaganda efforts through TikTok, such as, say, rallying young Americans against efforts to contain China, and see an opportunity to cut off that possibility now.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 09:41

soviet elsa: Feb 22, 2024; lover of cats and snow

The mean tiktok user is late twenties/early thirties, and there is as much right wing crank as there is leftism. What makes it work so well is it funnels you very well to what you already want to see. Are we really going to pretend it is leftist kids threatening the world order again?

# ? Apr 24, 2024 10:33

PurpleSky: Jun 28, 2022

Sir Kodiak posted:

The claim is that TikTok, under the direction of the Chinese government, is pushing pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli content through a purposeful manipulation of what viewpoints get promoted rather than as a content-neutral consequence of what viewpoints are popular. The idea is that by divorcing TikTok from the Chinese government, this manipulation could be stopped.

See, for instance, Josh Hawley:
https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1717505662601609401

Or this editorial by Mike Gallagher who delayed his retirement from the House just long enough to be able to vote on the three military aid bills and the TikTok ban:

Note that no specific evidence of this happening has been presented. TikTok puts forward the argument that the imbalance is similar to that on American-run social media networks:

But elected officials would prefer to believe that young people are being manipulated than that they're having an authentic moral reaction. Further, there's plenty of anti-Chinese hawks (note the bundling of the TikTok ban with military aid to Taiwan) who are happy to stick a finger in China's eye by forcing the sale of a successful Chinese company. Similarly, some worry about future Chinese propaganda efforts through TikTok, such as, say, rallying young Americans against efforts to contain China, and see an opportunity to cut off that possibility now.

I see. Thanks for posting good info. Selling it won't stop people from using it and saying mean things about Republicans/Israel/Trump.

PurpleSky fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 10:51

Aztec Galactus: Sep 12, 2002

Main Paineframe posted:

The Department of Labor just issued a new rule that'll massively expand overtime pay eligibility for salaried workers.

https://twitter.com/USDOL/status/1782818503927431484

That'll nearly double the threshold from $35k now to $58k by the start of 2025, and require the threshold to be adjusted for inflation every 3 years.

Between that and the anti-noncompete rule earlier, looks like the Biden administration is getting pretty active about labor rights and protections. Unfortunately, it's only executive actions, so there's no guaranteeing it'll stick around under a new president.

Does anyone have a good explanation of how this is different from the 2016 Obama rule that was struck down in the courts?

# ? Apr 24, 2024 12:37

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

PurpleSky posted:

I see. Thanks for posting good info. Selling it won't stop people from using it and saying mean things about Republicans/Israel/Trump.

selling it will allow new management to change the algorithm that shows other people said mean things

# ? Apr 24, 2024 13:17

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Goa Tse-tung posted:

selling it will allow new management to change the algorithm that shows other people said mean things

Who would have thought we would live to see the day when the goddamn United States Congress is boohooing that the mods won't ban their posting enemies.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 13:41

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

The funny part is that they will have to convince scotus it has nothing to do with Hamas or foreign propaganda because those would be 1st amendment breaches. Don't be surprised if that Hawley tweet appears during the trial.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:04

DEEP STATE PLOT: Aug 13, 2008; Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

hearty lol if biden signing the tiktok death bill depresses youth turnout enough to lose him the election

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:08

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

Aztec Galactus posted:

Does anyone have a good explanation of how this is different from the 2016 Obama rule that was struck down in the courts?

The rule appears to more clearly define exempt supervisors, though I�ve not had time to dig in.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:26

soviet elsa: Feb 22, 2024; lover of cats and snow

The thirty-two year old youths so mad about tiktok that they change their voting decisions. Many such cases.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:26

theCalamity: Oct 23, 2010; Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War

Sir Kodiak posted:

The claim is that TikTok, under the direction of the Chinese government, is pushing pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli content through a purposeful manipulation of what viewpoints get promoted rather than as a content-neutral consequence of what viewpoints are popular. The idea is that by divorcing TikTok from the Chinese government, this manipulation could be stopped.

See, for instance, Josh Hawley:
https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1717505662601609401

Or this editorial by Mike Gallagher who delayed his retirement from the House just long enough to be able to vote on the three military aid bills and the TikTok ban:

Note that no specific evidence of this happening has been presented. TikTok puts forward the argument that the imbalance is similar to that on American-run social media networks:

But elected officials would prefer to believe that young people are being manipulated than that they're having an authentic moral reaction. Further, there's plenty of anti-Chinese hawks (note the bundling of the TikTok ban with military aid to Taiwan) who are happy to stick a finger in China's eye by forcing the sale of a successful Chinese company. Similarly, some worry about future Chinese propaganda efforts through TikTok, such as, say, rallying young Americans against efforts to contain China, and see an opportunity to cut off that possibility now.

Here�s another one. Apologies for the Michael Tracy tweet

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1782920301052911713

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:33

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Blinken is such a non-entity in China it's embarrassing, why release such hostile statements, when you're trying to find cooperation for sanctions against Russia and the war between Israel and Hamas?

https://twitter.com/HuXijin_GT/status/1783092785572188455

Nonsense fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:39

beerinator: Feb 21, 2003

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

hearty lol if biden signing the tiktok death bill depresses youth turnout enough to lose him the election

The forced sale/ban is not slated to happen until after the election so I don't see it changing much.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:49

IT BURNS: Nov 19, 2012

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

hearty lol if biden signing the tiktok death bill depresses youth turnout enough to lose him the election

At the very least, he looks like a hypocrite having only recently created an account expressly to appeal to younger voters. It's a dumb move.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:54

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

I think anyone who would not vote over the tiktok ban would already be not voting over the money to Israel in the same bill. It's not just the tiktok ban, there's a lot of other stuff in the package

# ? Apr 24, 2024 14:59

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

PurpleSky posted:

Ok but I'm unclear how selling TikTok would stop young folks from expressing their anger on the app. Would the purpose of selling it be to kill the app? Introduce new restrictions? All of the above?

Let's say that Elon Musk, for example, bought TikTok. Do you not think the moderation of content would change at all?

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:07

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

haveblue posted:

I think anyone who would not vote over the tiktok ban would already be not voting over the money to Israel in the same bill. It's not just the tiktok ban, there's a lot of other stuff in the package

Israel also being the main reason for the TikTok ban itself apart from giving China a middle finger.

Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:09

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

beerinator posted:

The forced sale/ban is not slated to happen until after the election so I don't see it changing much.

It's also worth remembering that Trump banned Tiktok near the end of his term too, but it was held up in court long enough for him to be replaced by Biden, who canceled the Tiktok ban and opened some investigations into Tiktok's handling of user data instead.

While we don't know exactly what those investigations found, it was concerning enough that the Biden administration banned Tiktok from all government-owned devices. And while all that was going on, there were public revelations that Tiktok was using its app to spy on specific US citizens, followed by the discovery that Tiktok employees accessed the personal data of the journalists who revealed that, in an attempt to track down the source of the leak. Combine that lackluster approach to user privacy with the fact that Chinese law requires companies to provide user data to the Chinese government on request, and it's not surprising that the US government has been concerned.

On top of that, US security agencies have alleged that the Chinese government is running influence networks on Tiktok and used them to attempt to influence the 2022 elections, which is why you're seeing legislators getting real worked up about the idea that Tiktok might be manipulating the algorithm for political reasons. And Tiktok sending out that alert to its US users telling them to lobby the US government against the Tiktok ban was an enormous own goal.

Because of all this, the Tiktok ban effort is heavily bipartisan and passed the Senate by a wide, veto-proof majority. The only opposition came from the diehard MAGAs, because Trump came out against the Tiktok ban in 2024 after a rich friend with a big financial stake in Tiktok convinced him to, despite the fact that he in fact tried to ban it himself when he was in office.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:30

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Goa Tse-tung posted:

selling it will allow new management to change the algorithm that shows other people said mean things

Is the logic that kids actually are being brainwashed/influenced by the algorithm and it is so effective that they will be brainwashed in the other direction by someone intentionally changing it?

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:31

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Main Paineframe posted:

It's also worth remembering that Trump banned Tiktok near the end of his term too, but it was held up in court long enough for him to be replaced by Biden, who canceled the Tiktok ban and opened some investigations into Tiktok's handling of user data instead.

While we don't know exactly what those investigations found, it was concerning enough that the Biden administration banned Tiktok from all government-owned devices. And while all that was going on, there were public revelations that Tiktok was using its app to spy on specific US citizens, followed by the discovery that Tiktok employees accessed the personal data of the journalists who revealed that, in an attempt to track down the source of the leak. Combine that lackluster approach to user privacy with the fact that Chinese law requires companies to provide user data to the Chinese government on request, and it's not surprising that the US government has been concerned.

On top of that, US security agencies have alleged that the Chinese government is running influence networks on Tiktok and used them to attempt to influence the 2022 elections, which is why you're seeing legislators getting real worked up about the idea that Tiktok might be manipulating the algorithm for political reasons. And Tiktok sending out that alert to its US users telling them to lobby the US government against the Tiktok ban was an enormous own goal.

Because of all this, the Tiktok ban effort is heavily bipartisan and passed the Senate by a wide, veto-proof majority. The only opposition came from the diehard MAGAs, because Trump came out against the Tiktok ban in 2024 after a rich friend with a big financial stake in Tiktok convinced him to, despite the fact that he in fact tried to ban it himself when he was in office.

Thank you this makes more sense then people saying this was all put together overnight because of the I/P stuff.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:38

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Main Paineframe posted:

It's also worth remembering that Trump banned Tiktok near the end of his term too, but it was held up in court long enough for him to be replaced by Biden, who canceled the Tiktok ban and opened some investigations into Tiktok's handling of user data instead.

While we don't know exactly what those investigations found, it was concerning enough that the Biden administration banned Tiktok from all government-owned devices. And while all that was going on, there were public revelations that Tiktok was using its app to spy on specific US citizens, followed by the discovery that Tiktok employees accessed the personal data of the journalists who revealed that, in an attempt to track down the source of the leak. Combine that lackluster approach to user privacy with the fact that Chinese law requires companies to provide user data to the Chinese government on request, and it's not surprising that the US government has been concerned.

On top of that, US security agencies have alleged that the Chinese government is running influence networks on Tiktok and used them to attempt to influence the 2022 elections, which is why you're seeing legislators getting real worked up about the idea that Tiktok might be manipulating the algorithm for political reasons. And Tiktok sending out that alert to its US users telling them to lobby the US government against the Tiktok ban was an enormous own goal.

Because of all this, the Tiktok ban effort is heavily bipartisan and passed the Senate by a wide, veto-proof majority. The only opposition came from the diehard MAGAs, because Trump came out against the Tiktok ban in 2024 after a rich friend with a big financial stake in Tiktok convinced him to, despite the fact that he in fact tried to ban it himself when he was in office.

yeah but come on man its a fun app!!!!!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:44

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

Nonsense posted:

Blinken is such a non-entity in China it's embarrassing, why release such hostile statements, when you're trying to find cooperation for sanctions against Russia and the war between Israel and Hamas?

https://twitter.com/HuXijin_GT/status/1783092785572188455

You should not use the global times as a source on this.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:47

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

socialsecurity posted:

Thank you this makes more sense then people saying this was all put together overnight because of the I/P stuff.

most ain't saying that, more that the i/p stuff lit a fire under its rear end to get done

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:47

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

Main Paineframe posted:

It's also worth remembering that Trump banned Tiktok near the end of his term too, but it was held up in court long enough for him to be replaced by Biden, who canceled the Tiktok ban and opened some investigations into Tiktok's handling of user data instead.

While we don't know exactly what those investigations found, it was concerning enough that the Biden administration banned Tiktok from all government-owned devices. And while all that was going on, there were public revelations that Tiktok was using its app to spy on specific US citizens, followed by the discovery that Tiktok employees accessed the personal data of the journalists who revealed that, in an attempt to track down the source of the leak. Combine that lackluster approach to user privacy with the fact that Chinese law requires companies to provide user data to the Chinese government on request, and it's not surprising that the US government has been concerned.

On top of that, US security agencies have alleged that the Chinese government is running influence networks on Tiktok and used them to attempt to influence the 2022 elections, which is why you're seeing legislators getting real worked up about the idea that Tiktok might be manipulating the algorithm for political reasons. And Tiktok sending out that alert to its US users telling them to lobby the US government against the Tiktok ban was an enormous own goal.

Because of all this, the Tiktok ban effort is heavily bipartisan and passed the Senate by a wide, veto-proof majority. The only opposition came from the diehard MAGAs, because Trump came out against the Tiktok ban in 2024 after a rich friend with a big financial stake in Tiktok convinced him to, despite the fact that he in fact tried to ban it himself when he was in office.

And all of this is less frightening to me than the same app being owned by a right wing American billionaire who lets US intelligence do whatever they want.

Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:52

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Is the logic that kids actually are being brainwashed/influenced by the algorithm and it is so effective that they will be brainwashed in the other direction by someone intentionally changing it?

Definitely yes but I don�t think there�s really a concerted effort to push it left right now. But it�s definitely having a big siloing effect that could easily be weaponized if it isn�t already.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:54

TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014

kind of weird seeing so many posts referring to it as a 'tiktok ban' rhetorically and running with it, when that is an extremely unlikely outcome.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 15:59

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The NYT has a story about how the latest push got started.

The most recent push started back in March 2023 in secret to prevent TikTok lobbyists from finding out.

Raja Krishnamoorthi and Mike Gallagher got a group of 13 other lawmakers together to craft the bill. This is part of the same group who had been trying to ban it since 2017, but had been trying to craft a bill that would stand up legally, politically, and practically.

Recent revelations about TikTok data gathering, TikTok's attempts to automate users to call in to the offices of members of congress, the Gaza war, and reporting that the CEO of Bytedance had lied to congress all pushed them to unveil the bill faster because they thought they had momentum.

quote:

�Thunder Run�: Behind Lawmakers� Secretive Push to Pass the TikTok Bill

A tiny group of lawmakers huddled in private about a year ago, aiming to keep the discussions away from TikTok lobbyists while bulletproofing a bill that could ban the app.

Just over a year ago, lawmakers displayed a rare show of bipartisanship when they grilled Shou Chew, TikTok�s chief executive, about the video app�s ties to China. Their harsh questioning suggested that Washington was gearing up to force the company to sever ties with its Chinese owner � or even ban the app.

Then came mostly silence. Little emerged from the House committee that held the hearing, and a proposal to enable the administration to force a sale or ban TikTok fizzled in the Senate.

But behind the scenes, a tiny group of lawmakers began plotting a secretive effort that culminated on Tuesday, when the Senate passed a bill that forces TikTok to be sold by its Chinese owner, ByteDance, or risk getting banned. The measure upends the future of an app that claims 170 million users in the United States and that touches virtually every aspect of American life.

For nearly a year, lawmakers and some of their aides worked to write a version of the bill, concealing their efforts to avoid setting off TikTok�s lobbying might. To bulletproof the bill from expected legal challenges and persuade uncertain lawmakers, the group worked with the Justice Department and White House.

And the last stage � a race to the president�s desk that led some aides to nickname the bill the �Thunder Run� � played out in seven weeks from when it was publicly introduced, remarkably fast for Washington.

�You don�t get many opportunities like this on a major issue,� said Representative Steve Scalise of Louisiana, the Republican majority leader. He was one of 15 lawmakers, aides and officials directly involved in shaping and passing the bill who were interviewed for this article.

�This fight�s been going on for years,� Mr. Scalise said. �We learned a lot from each step and we wanted to make sure we had strong legal standing and a strong bipartisan coalition to do this.�

Their success contrasts with the stumbles by other lawmakers and American officials, starting during the Trump administration, to address national security concerns about TikTok. They say the Chinese government could lean on ByteDance to obtain sensitive U.S. user data or influence content on the app to serve Beijing�s interests, including interfering in American elections.

TikTok has pushed back against those accusations, saying the Chinese government plays no role in the company and that it has taken steps and spent billions of dollars to address the concerns. It has also fought back aggressively in the courts against previous actions by federal and state governments.

But the strategy employed by the lawmakers in recent weeks caught TikTok flat-footed. And while the app is unlikely to disappear from U.S. users� phones as next steps are worked out, the Senate�s passage of the measure stands out as the first time Congress has sent a bill to the president that could result in a wide ban of a foreign app.

In a statement, Alex Haurek, a TikTok spokesman, said the bill �was crafted in secret, rushed through the House and ultimately passed as part of a larger, must-pass bill exactly because it is a ban that Americans will find objectionable.�

He added it was �sadly ironic that Congress would pass a law trampling 170 million Americans� right to free expression as part of a package they say is aimed at advancing freedom around the world.�

From Tiny Huddle to Big Majority

The effort around a TikTok bill began with Mr. Scalise, who met with Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a Republican from Washington, last March about their desire to see a measure that took on the app.

They began talking with other Republican lawmakers and aides across several committees about a new bill. By August, they had decided to shepherd a potential bill through a House committee focused on China, the Select Committee the Chinese Communist Party, led by Representatives Mike Gallagher, a Wisconsin Republican and its chairman, and Raja Krishnamoorthi, an Illinois Democrat.

The bipartisan committee swiftly embraced the effort. �What we recognized was that there were so many different approaches and the technical issues were so complex,� Mr. Krishnamoorthi said.
So the committee hatched a strategy: Win the support of Democrats, the White House and the Justice Department for a new bill.

Their efforts got a lift after TikTok was accused by lawmakers including Mr. Gallagher and others of intentionally pushing pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel content to its users last year. Mr. Krishnamoorthi and others said the Israel-Gaza conflict stoked lawmakers� appetites to regulate the app.

In November, the group, which then numbered fewer than 20 key people, brought in officials from the Justice Department, including Lisa Monaco, the deputy attorney general, and staff from the National Security Council to help secure the Biden administration�s support for a new bill.

For years, the administration had weighed a proposal by TikTok, called Project Texas, that aimed to keep sensitive U.S. user data separate from the rest of the company�s operations. The Justice Department and National Security Council officials agreed to support the new bill partly because they saw Project Texas as inadequate to handle national security concerns involving TikTok, two administration officials said.

In conversations with lawmakers, White House officials emphasized that they wanted ByteDance to sell TikTok rather than impose a ban, partly because of the app�s popularity with Americans, three people involved in the process said.

The Justice Department and Ms. Monaco provided guidance on how to write the bill so it could withstand legal challenges. TikTok has previously fended off efforts to ban it by citing the First Amendment rights of its users. The officials explained how to word the bill to defend against those claims, citing national security.

With the administration�s support in hand, the group quietly solicited more supporters in the House. The Justice Department joined members of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and F.B.I. to brief House committees on the threats posed by TikTok�s Chinese ownership. The briefings were later delivered in the Senate.

Ms. Monaco also met individually with lawmakers, warning them that TikTok could be used to disrupt U.S. elections.

�She built out a powerful case and we agreed that not only was data gathering taking place, she shared that you have 170 million American that were vulnerable to propaganda,� Senator Mark Warner, the Democrat of Virginia, said of a meeting with Ms. Monaco in Munich in February.

On March 5, Mr. Gallagher and Mr. Krishnamoorthi announced the bill and named around 50 House members who endorsed it. The Energy and Commerce Committee, which is chaired by Ms. McMorris Rodgers, took the bill up that week.

TikTok, which had been negotiating with U.S. officials over its Project Texas plan, was caught off guard. It quickly sent information to members of the energy and commerce committee outlining TikTok�s economic contributions in their districts, according to documents viewed by The New York Times. It also used a pop-up message on its app to urge users to call legislators to oppose a ban.

But when hundreds of calls flooded into some lawmakers� offices, including from callers who sounded like minors, some of the lawmakers felt the bill was being misrepresented.
�It transformed a lot of lean yeses into hell yeses at that point,� Mr. Krishnamoorthi said.

Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, voiced opposition to the bill, causing panic. But Mr. Scalise said he urged Mr. Trump to reconsider and a vote proceeded.

Two days after the bill was unveiled, Ms. McMorris Rodgers�s committee voted 50 to 0 to advance it to the full House, where it passed the next week by 352 to 65.

There were tears of joy in Mr. Krishnamoorthi�s office, two people said. Mr. Gallagher�s staff members celebrated with a cookie cake sent by Mr. Scalise, one of his signature rewards for successful legislation.

A Less Certain Future

Even with the bill�s swift passage in the House, its future in the Senate was uncertain. Some senators, including powerful committee chairs like Maria Cantwell, a Democrat of Washington, and Mr. Warner, considered changes to the bill in a process that could significantly slow it down.

The House bill gave ByteDance six months to sell TikTok. Senators wanted to extend the timeline and detail the government�s national security concerns about TikTok in the bill, to make it clear to courts how it justified the measure.

As the Senate worked on the bill, TikTok contacted lawmakers� offices and spent at least $3 million in ads to defend itself. It blanketed the airwaves in key states with commercials depicting how users � like nuns and ranchers � make a living and build communities through the app.

TikTok also had support from conservative groups like Club for Growth and the Cato Institute, both backed by Jeffrey Yass, a prominent investor in the app, and liberal organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union, which has said the bill violates Americans� First Amendment rights.

A Club for Growth spokesman said Mr. Yass �never requested Club to take a position or action on his behalf.�

Some deep-pocketed groups on the right mobilized to support the bill. One was the American Parents Coalition, backed by Leonard Leo, a conservative activist, which ran an ad campaign called �TikTok is Poison� in March. A spokesman for Mr. Leo said he was �proud to support� the group�s efforts.

Some in Silicon Valley also spoke out in favor of the bill, including Vinod Khosla, a venture capitalist, and Jacob Helberg, a senior policy adviser to Palantir�s chief executive.

Bijan Koohmaraie, a counsel in Mr. Scalise�s office who helped drive the bill, said a main reason to keep the process secret for so long was to keep lobbyists away.

�No company had any influence or was helping draft this bill on the outside,� he said.

A New Opportunity

As the bill sat in the Senate, a new opportunity presented itself. House Speaker Mike Johnson announced an attempt last week to pass foreign aid for countries including Ukraine. To ensure he had the votes, Mr. Johnson took the unusual step of attaching a package of bills popular with Republicans, including the TikTok measure.

Senators scrambled now that the House had forced their hand. Ms. Cantwell�s office asked the House for multiple edits to the measure, said a person with knowledge of the matter.
House lawmakers made just one change the Senate wanted. The version of the bill in the aid package extended the deadline for a TikTok sale to nine months from six months. The president can add another 90 days if ByteDance has made progress toward selling TikTok.

�The most important thing is to have enough time to affect a sale,� Ms. Cantwell said.

The change was enough. Late Tuesday, the Senate passed the bill overwhelmingly, 79 to 18. President Biden is expected to sign it into law as soon as Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/technology/tiktok-ban-congress.html

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:01

Barrel Cactaur: Oct 6, 2021

Nucleic Acids posted:

And all of this is less frightening to me than the same app being owned by a right wing American billionaire who lets US intelligence do whatever they want.

It's a timeline that's much more bait for a SPAC

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:01

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

kind of weird seeing so many posts referring to it as a 'tiktok ban' rhetorically and running with it, when that is an extremely unlikely outcome.

This is true but the most likely outcome, TikTok being bought by some right wing idiot, is overall worse.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:06

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

kind of weird seeing so many posts referring to it as a 'tiktok ban' rhetorically and running with it, when that is an extremely unlikely outcome.

That's how the liberal politicians they're divining apologia for have framed it. And it is a ban on the existent tiktok whose thought crimes have been well laid out. It probably won't be the thing that costs Biden the election, but it is a pretty good indicator of how empty liberalism has become as a political force that no one even bats an eye at what most of them were able to correctly identify as state censorship when Trump did it.

DynamicSloth fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:09

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

DynamicSloth posted:

That's how the liberal politicians their divining apologia for have framed it. And it is a ban on the existent tiktok whose thought crimes have been well laid out. It probably won't be the thing that costs Biden the election, but it is a pretty good indicator of how empty liberalism has become as a political force that no one even bats an eye at what most of them were able to correctly identify as state censorship when Trump did it.

Thought crimes?

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:11

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Yes many of the people voting to ban tiktok are doing so because of the vicious thought crimes perpetuating on it's feed. Others lie and say their doing it for techno mumbo jumbo concerns about privacy they would never apply to any American social media company.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:14

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

Main Paineframe posted:

On top of that, US security agencies have alleged that the Chinese government is running influence networks on Tiktok and used them to attempt to influence the 2022 elections, which is why you're seeing legislators getting real worked up about the idea that Tiktok might be manipulating the algorithm for political reasons. And Tiktok sending out that alert to its US users telling them to lobby the US government against the Tiktok ban was an enormous own goal.

So this is an interesting part of the situation since there is actual SCOTUS case law saying that foreign "communist political propaganda" is in fact legally protected speech.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/381/301/

Propaganda in this way defined as:

quote:

"The term 'political propaganda' includes any oral, visual, graphic, written, pictorial, or other communication or expression by any person (1) which is reasonably adapted to, or which the person disseminating the same believes will, or which he intends to, prevail upon, indoctrinate, convert, induce, or in any other way influence a recipient or any section of the public within the United States with reference to the political or public interests, policies, or relations of a government of a foreign country or a foreign political party or with reference to the foreign policies of the United States or promote in the United States racial, religious, or social dissensions, or (2) which advocates, advises, instigates, or promotes any racial, social, political, or religious disorder, civil riot, or other conflict involving the use of force or violence in any other American republic or the overthrow of any government or political subdivision of any other American republic by any means involving the use of force or violence."

The case essentially resulted in SCOTUS saying that a person has a right to receive foreign propaganda under 1A.

Bonus from Brennan:

quote:

The dissemination of ideas can accomplish nothing if otherwise willing addressees are not free to receive and consider them. It would be a barren marketplace of ideas that had only sellers and no buyers.

And this was in a case where people were required to "opt-in" to receiving the propaganda.

Now I don't know how much SCOTUS nowadays respects a unanimous decision from 60 years ago (they have little respect for decisions more recent than that!) but they do tend to favor 1A arguments.

This case is certainly one that's hard to predict, but there's good reason to think the court sides with Tiktok since national security concerns largely rest on the idea that propaganda is a threat to America which disagrees with the court's previous interpretation of 1A protections. If it were something else like Tiktok makes people's smartphones vulnerable to hacking, it would certainly be a much stronger case. And SCOTUS does love giving the national security apparatus what they want.

A lot of people will say this is not a ban but it's unlikely that the court interprets this as being substantially different. If the people are entitled to receive foreign propaganda from Bytedance or China, it seems unlikely they would say that selling it to someone else would not change the speech itself.

Comedy option: Tiktok adds a button requiring users consent to receiving propaganda from any and all sources including terrorists

koolkal fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:15

DEEP STATE PLOT: Aug 13, 2008; Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

This is true but the most likely outcome, TikTok being bought by some right wing idiot, is overall worse.

gonna be rad when elon musk buys tiktok

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:17

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 3, 2024 11:12

theCalamity: Oct 23, 2010; Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War

DynamicSloth posted:

Yes many of the people voting to ban tiktok are doing so because of the vicious thought crimes perpetuating on it's feed. Others lie and say their doing it for techno mumbo jumbo concerns about privacy they would never apply to any American social media company.

Yeah their concerns over privacy and data protection rings hollow when the other social media platforms aren�t getting regulated as well. China doesn�t even need TikTok to get data on Americans, they can just buy it from data brokers.

If they were really concerned about our data and privacy, they�d regulate the credit industry a lot more heavily.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2024: Macklemore Is The New Michael Moore

«‹›310 »