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My kid wants to go to Chicago, we should go get arrested. Maybe he can get extra credit in history.
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Apr 24, 2024 21:54
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woops wrong thread
HallelujahLee has issued a correction as of 22:01 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 21:56
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Strep Vote posted:My kid wants to go to Chicago, we should go get arrested. Maybe he can get extra credit in history. I kind of want to go too, just need to work out the logistics. I wonder if anyone is regionally organizing it, such as in my area in Philly?
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Apr 24, 2024 22:00
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guidoanselmi posted:DNC is gunna be LIT this year Lol the CPD is gonna beat the rear end of an arrest anyone who so much as stops to tie their shoe within a 5 mile radius of the convention
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Apr 24, 2024 22:07
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Trabisnikof posted:lets take a trip down time machine lane Nice finds. D&D should have their face rubbed in that like a turd left on the carpet, but pointing out that their only barometer for good/bad things is which team does it will get you forum banned
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Apr 24, 2024 22:09
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the dnc being in chicago this year is the kind of thing that makes you think reality is written by a hack writer
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Apr 24, 2024 22:09
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https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1782542994274419071 Man, this guy sucks
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Apr 24, 2024 22:18
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PhilippAchtel posted:https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1782542994274419071 ??? how does he think anti-vietnam-war protests were legitimate in a way anti-gaza-genocide protests are not
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Apr 24, 2024 22:19
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PhilippAchtel posted:https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1782542994274419071 Hes the one that lost the primary for the Governor of Oregon cause he was afraid of the Left, right?
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Apr 24, 2024 22:20
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x-posting At the opening of Alasdair MacIntyre’s seminal text, After Virtue, he poses "a disquieting suggestion" for the field of moral philosophy and contemporary society more broadly. He imagines a fictitious scientific dystopia in which the natural sciences are held responsible by the general public for a series of environmental disasters and catastrophes. Amidst widespread riots, laboratories are burned to the ground; scientific books, writings, and technical equipment are destroyed; and physicians and biologists are publicly executed for their alleged crimes. Eventually, a "Know-Nothing" political movement takes power and abolishes science from schools and universities, prohibiting its practice. After a certain passage of time, this society witnesses a countermovement to the successful destruction and abolition of science. Enlightened members of the population seek to try and revive the practice of science, but MacIntyre’s imaginary counterinsurgents have, unfortunately, largely forgotten what science was or how it was practiced. All they possess are fragments: half-burned books explicating theories which lack the broader context which establishes their significance; incomplete periodic tables; and technical instruments whose original use has long been forgotten. Regardless, these fragments are cobbled together, and "science" is restored under a set of practices named physics, chemistry, and biology. The new scientists argue about the theory of relativity, Darwin’s theory of evolution, and Newton’s law of universal gravitation despite possessing only a partial knowledge of such things. However, in this fictitious scenario, nobody realizes that what they are doing is not "natural science" at all – at least not in the sense that we understand natural science – because "everything that they do and say conforms to certain canons of consistency and coherence and those contexts which would be needed to make sense of what they are doing have been lost, perhaps irretrievably" (MacIntyre, 2011: 1–2). In this pseudo-scientific culture, its inhabitants would continue to use scientific language in a similar way to its prior use. But absent of the beliefs, evidence, and wider underpinning scientific context, such language is in a state of grave disorder. Rival and competing scientific premises would abound. But with no criteria available to arbitrate between them, these arguments would be interminable, and a "subjectivist" natural science would emerge in which the use of scientific language would appear to be an entirely arbitrary choice that cannot be settled systematically. It is here that the point of such a tale is revealed, as MacIntyre proposes his "disquieting suggestion": "The hypothesis which I wish to advance is that in the actual world we inhabit the language of morality is in the same state of grave disorder as the language of natural science in the imaginary world which I described. What we possess, if this view is true, are the fragments of a conceptual scheme, parts which now lack those contexts from which their significance derived. We possess indeed simulacra of morality, we continue to use many of the key expressions. But we have—very largely, if not entirely—lost our comprehension, both theoretical and practical, of morality." (MacIntyre, 2011: 2–3) How does this relate to MacIntyre and his discussion of societal breakdown and loss of essence? Here, the essence at stake is the core moral commitment of liberalism to harm reduction and human rights, which is dramatically contradicted by the Democratic Party’s support for Israel despite the genocide in Gaza. This contradiction becomes even more severe given the Democratic Party's response to domestic dissent, particularly from its ideological and cultural base—students at Ivy League schools, who traditionally support Democratic values and are ostensibly the future of the party. The crux of this contradiction is vividly exposed when these same students protest against the genocide in Gaza, and in response, face violent suppression by authorities—a response that the Democrats condone. This action not only contradicts the party’s proclaimed values but also directly inflicts harm upon its own supporters, thereby deepening the moral and philosophical crisis. The act of sending riot police to suppress student activists, who are protesting genocide, vividly illustrates the dissonance between the party’s actions and its stated commitments. Why is this such a problem for western centre left parties, specifically? Bill Clinton and Tony Blair reflected a critical shift in the strategic and philosophical orientation of center-left politics globally at Francis Fukuyama's "End of History". The ideological evolution of human societies had culminated in the global acceptance of liberal democracy as the final form of government. The future consisted only of a kind of ideological stasis, where major ideological battles were considered resolved in favour of liberal democratic values. Since the cultural and political shifts post-1968, and under Clinton and Blair, there has been a move away from traditional leftist bases, such as organized labor and the working class, toward a broader, more middle-class constituency. The shift transformed party ideology, from one grounded in class struggle and economic redistribution to one emphasizing moral leadership and harm reduction. Having given up offering anything material, what was left was a vision of liberalism that professes ethical superiority and a commitment to human rights as their primary appeal to the educated middle class. When these parties support genocide in Gaza, they not only face a crisis of action but a more severe crisis of identity. This contradiction between their ethical posturing and their actions cannot be reconciled. That's the difference between these protests and January 6. On January 6, there was an ideologically compatible way to justify cracking down on protesters - they were bad Trumpers, the violence was protecting and upholding democracy, and therefore was not harm, but itself a form of harm reduction. Similarly for the BLM protests, the Black Bloc and Anifa were wildly blown out of proportion so that a liberal could will themselves into believing that they represented a kind of harm, and so state violence was, again, a form of harm reduction. That was helped by the Democrats being hostile to politics that outflanks them on the left, so that "radicals" can be just as much of an enemy as Trump supporters. Those ideological mechanisms don't work here. The use of force against their own supporters, particularly students and young activists who represent the ideological future of liberalism, and are peacefully protesting, which they have been told is the only moral form, further intensifies this crisis. Such actions demonstrate a betrayal of the very principles these parties claim to uphold—principles that have become their sole claim to moral and political legitimacy in the post-ideological landscape of the "End of History." Given this context, the End of History becomes destabilized. The ideological stasis proclaimed by Fukuyama is disrupted by emerging contradictions within liberal democracies themselves. The violent suppression of dissent, especially when it concerns a black and white moral issue like genocide, reveals that these contradictions are not suppressible indefinitely. The resurgence of history, then, is marked by the reemergence of fundamental ideological conflicts within liberal democracies. These conflicts challenge the narrative of moral superiority and ethical governance that center-left parties like the Democrats have used to distinguish themselves from more conservative or right-wing alternatives. If these parties cannot reconcile their actions with their ideological claims, they risk a profound loss of support and legitimacy, and as the "reasonable option" in so many two party states, are actually endangering the support and legitimacy of the systems themselves. It goes without saying that the telos of the End of History implodes as soon as an alternative emerges, and, this is a pretty crazy thought - even if no material alternative is offered. By emphasizing harm reduction and morality as their central tenets, all politics is, all the system offers, the Dems have inadvertently set the stage for their own ideological collapse. This contradiction exposed by Gaza and the response to these protests has created a significant vulnerability within liberalism, where the absence of a material alternative becomes irrelevant—liberalism's own moral crisis is sufficient to potentially bring about its downfall, marking a spectacular own goal on the field of their choosing: culture and morality. tl;dr, The Democrats, and western centre-left, can't forsake the language of morality and harm reduction and survive, the way they did class struggle and organized labour. They were able to operate in the simulacra of morality MacIntyre describes, and that suited them well. However, genocide is so clear cut, and opposition to it so self-evidently righteous, that the Democrats are screwed. All they offer people is morality, they can't run on being the anti-morality party, there's no Third Way for morality where genocide is concerned. In fact the Democrat's own language of politics is entirely moral, or rather simulacra, as they have abandoned the language of materiality and class altogether. They also can't claim to be morally, righteously, reducing harm, by beating up people protesting a genocide. So, yes, bit of an own goal.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:20
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My mil texted us saying she hoped we weren't going to any pro Palestine protests because they might be infiltrated by foreign actors so now I have to find one. Americans cannot conceive of solidarity.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:22
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loquacius posted:??? how does he think anti-vietnam-war protests were legitimate in a way anti-gaza-genocide protests are not I was talking to my Dad about the protests and he was baffled that the students care so much because a big part of the Vietnam protests was people not wanting to be drafted. loving boomers.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:22
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VideoKid posted:I was talking to my Dad about the protests and he was baffled that the students care so much because a big part of the Vietnam protests was people not wanting to be drafted. loving boomers. They don't get that the kids know everyone else is next.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:25
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VideoKid posted:I was talking to my Dad about the protests and he was baffled that the students care so much because a big part of the Vietnam protests was people not wanting to be drafted. loving boomers. lol historians have been saying for 30 years that people were overstating how much Baby Boomers were antiwar as opposed to "anti me going to war", as if the immediate professionalization of the US military afterwards didn't give the game away.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:26
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https://twitter.com/AJentleson/status/1783147315395452982
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Apr 24, 2024 22:33
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KomradeX posted:Hes the one that lost the primary for the Governor of Oregon cause he was afraid of the Left, right? No. That was NYT columnist Nick Kristoff who wasn’t allowed to run because he lived in NY
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Apr 24, 2024 22:34
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GoLambo posted:I'm not really a social media guy but literally everyone I know under 40 uses tiktok daily. Literally everyone. What the gently caress is going on? Do they think people just aren't going to notice this? dude, even the old (40-60) construction workers i see are about 50/50 using it. this is hilarious.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:35
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It's kind of impressive how the 2003 anti-war protests are completely forgotten.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:37
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PhilippAchtel posted:Vote. i did but bad poo poo is still happening
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Apr 24, 2024 22:37
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loquacius posted:??? how does he think anti-vietnam-war protests were legitimate in a way anti-gaza-genocide protests are not americans were dying in vietnam. that's been a core part of the intentional shrinking of the purpose of anti-vietnam war protests. they've rewritten history to make it so that protesters all just didn't want their friends to die in vietnam, and that there was no anti-imperialism, no human rights, no socialism, etc.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:38
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how does the DCCC still manage to convince two or three of these type of guys to lose every two years? https://x.com/ike4co/status/1771212681334145467?s=46
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Apr 24, 2024 22:39
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trevorreznik posted:It's kind of impressive how the 2003 anti-war protests are completely forgotten.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:39
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loquacius posted:you've activated another trap card I dont like weed at all and it makes me feel miserable. I still think it should be legal and has a very low societal harm level. I neutralize your trap card.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:41
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This is what I mean, because "disagree with on some issues" can't extend to genocide. It can include "is this a genocide?" but not genocide as such. You can't disagree over if genocide is good or bad. Which creates an other problem, because with genocide being the question, there's no argument to "build a coalition big and broad enough to defeat trump and repel the rise of anti-democratic forces in the US", because obviously genocide is morally worse than that. There's no argument to morally compromise on genocide to stop Trump. I'm not saying they won't try, I'm just saying their ideological system can't contain those contradictions.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:41
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Hi, I’m a recruitment poster that’s come to life like the painting in Ghostbusters II. I have deeply held Democratic beliefs like we should tax billionaires to pay for genocides. Will you please give me a few million dollars so I can be unemployed this year and lose by forty points to a psycho?
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Apr 24, 2024 22:42
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Joementum posted:Hi, I’m a recruitment poster that’s come to life like the painting in Ghostbusters II. I have deeply held Democratic beliefs like we should tax billionaires to pay for genocides. Will you please give me a few million dollars so I can be unemployed this year and lose by forty points to a psycho? You had me at pay for genocides 
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Apr 24, 2024 22:44
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mawarannahr posted:yeah, considering how successful they were it's really quite something
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Apr 24, 2024 22:48
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https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/1783167575670636934
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Apr 24, 2024 22:53
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Nichael posted:I kind of want to go too, just need to work out the logistics. I wonder if anyone is regionally organizing it, such as in my area in Philly? There are regular protests in Philly, so someone is definitely organizing something. In 2020, my company was in the same building as Biden's PA HQ, and there were frequent protests in the lobby.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:55
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:This is what I mean, because "disagree with on some issues" can't extend to genocide. It can include "is this a genocide?" but not genocide as such. You can't disagree over if genocide is good or bad. marshall specifically has said there is no genocide there, so he's in good company with wanting to be with other genocide deniers
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Apr 24, 2024 22:55
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saving democracy lol get the gently caress out of here
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Apr 24, 2024 22:55
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the university crackdowns are bumming me out, but not surprising. the status quo must be maintained at all costs
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Apr 24, 2024 22:56
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*Passes FISA renewal* "I'm saving Democracy (TM)!  "
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Apr 24, 2024 22:57
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Scarabrae posted:saving democracy lol get the gently caress out of here  but Clymer instead of the frog
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Apr 24, 2024 22:58
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Everytime these fuckin morons post like this I just imagine Walter in The Big Lebowski saying "They're gonna kill that pooooor woman" but "we gotta saaaave Democracy! WE GOTTA SAAAAAVE DEMOCRACY"
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Apr 24, 2024 23:00
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we have to prevent people from communicating to save democracy
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Apr 24, 2024 23:00
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why are you so against a little genocide. sounds like you have a little growing up to do.
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Apr 24, 2024 23:03
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Joementum posted:how does the DCCC still manage to convince two or three of these type of guys to lose every two years? ike4co sounds like a loan service or something
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Apr 24, 2024 23:03
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Apr 24, 2024 23:04
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Nothus posted:There are regular protests in Philly, so someone is definitely organizing something. In 2020, my company was in the same building as Biden's PA HQ, and there were frequent protests in the lobby. I mean trips to Chicago in some kind of bulk rate to save on transport or something.
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Apr 24, 2024 23:05
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