[Succ] big fan of liberalism but democracy seems kinda cooked

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Succ] big fan of liberalism but democracy seems kinda cooked

SgtMongoose: Feb 10, 2007

sullat posted:

IIRC the biggest flaw of Melania was that the first woman she'd hired to manage her first lady responsibilities was openly embezzling both the trump campaign and the white house budget and Melania doesn't appear to have been able to get her cut of the loot.

Weird how that never headlined the libs critiques of her. Almost as though embezzlement of campaign and public funds is something they love and engage in frequently and see nothing wrong with in principle.

But now for some psychic damage for the thread:

How Hitler Used Democracy to Take Power

quote:

Adolf Hitler never won a majority in a free and open national election. He never received more than 37% of the vote in a free and open national election, but he argued that 37% represented 75% of 51%, and demanded political power. It was the political calculus by which the Nazi leader disabled, then dismantled, the Weimar Republic. Hitler exploited his 37% to gridlock legislative processes, to cudgel or crush the political opposition, and ultimately to undermine the country�s democratic structures. When Hitler had vowed in court, in September 1930, to destroy democracy through the democratic process, a judge asked, �So, only through constitutional means?� Hitler replied crisply, �Jawohl.�

Hitler exercised his constitutional right to free speech and freedom of assembly to hold rallies across the country and spew invective in all directions�against Bolsheviks, social democrats, immigrants, Jews, even fellow rightwing nationalists. He chided the ruling elites. If God had intended aristocrats to run the country, Hitler said at one rally in fall 1932, �we�d all have been born with monocles.� He vowed to make Germany great again. He promised a Third Reich bigger and better than the previous two.

Hitler fomented outrage and discontent. He endorsed a public referendum backing the �Liberty Law,� proposed legislation that called for the abrogation of the Treaty of Versailles. The German signatories to the treaty were to be executed for treason, along with any government official who implemented the treaty�s provisions that included onerous reparation payments. It was reported, falsely, that the German government was drafting German teenagers and selling them into slavery abroad to service reparation debts. Hitler sowed lies and hatred, and harvested votes.

When he entered the race for president, in spring 1932�the only time Hitler ran for public office�he lost by six million votes, securing just 36.77% of the electorate. Hitler went to court to have the election results overturned amid claims of voter fraud, but the judge dismissed the case out of hand.

Hitler had more success with the legislative branch of government. The Nazis first entered the 600-member Reichstag in 1926 when they secured twelve seats in national elections. �We come not as friends and not as neutrals,� the brash, 32-year-old Reichstag delegate Joseph Goebbels warned at the time. �We come as mortal enemies.�

The Nazis remained an insignificant, back-row minority until September 1930, following the crash of 1929, when they surged tenfold in Reichstag elections, then doubled that number in July 1932 elections. With 230 brownshirt delegates with swastika armbands, representing 37.3% of the electorate, Hitler commanded the country�s largest political movement. Social democrats trailed with 21%, and the communists with 14%. A dozen other centrist and rightwing political parties filled the remaining seats in the Reichstag�s vast glass-domed and wood-paneled plenary hall.

The country�s largest political party generally had claim to the chancellorship, but President Paul von Hindenburg was concerned by Hitler�s divisive politics, hate mongering, and antisemitism. In private, Hindenburg said that if he were to appoint �that Bohemian corporal� to any position, it would be as Postmaster General, �so he can lick me from behind on my stamps.� Hindenburg told Hitler to his face that he would never appoint him chancellor �for the sake of God, my conscience, and the country.�

Undeterred, Hitler resorted to obstructionist politics. When he leveraged his 37% to gridlock the Reichstag, he forced Hindenburg to rule by �emergency decree,� a power guaranteed the president under Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution. Between December 1930 and April 1931, the Reichstag had enacted 19 pieces of legislation, with Hindenburg issuing only two Article 48 decrees. By the end of 1932, there were 59 �emergency decrees� compared with only five pieces of legislation. Writing in December 1932, a Time correspondent dryly observed that the German government appeared to be trying to �out-Hitler Hitler.�

Hitler had essentially and surprisingly quickly transformed a democratic republic into a constitutional dictatorship. Reichstag delegate Goebbels had observed a few years earlier, �The big joke on democracy is that it gives its mortal enemies the tools to its own destruction.� Finally, on January 30, 1933, Hindenburg relented, agreeing to appoint Hitler chancellor to overcome the legislative gridlock and restore democratic procedures. We all know what followed.

Back in the 1980s, as a graduate student at Harvard University, I was a teaching assistant for Dr. Richard M. Hunt in his core curriculum course, Literature and Arts C-45, that explored the moral dilemmas faced by the average German during the Weimar and Nazi eras. Harvard undergraduates facetiously dubbed an earlier incarnation of Hunt�s course, �Krauts and Doubts.�

In helping explain the Weimar Republic�s tilt into fascism, I used to cite an observation by Hans Frank, Hitler�s private attorney, who helped engineer the strategy to disable democratic processes through constitutional means. Frank became complicit in Germany�s wartime atrocities, including the murder of millions of Jews, for which he was hanged.

�The F�hrer was a man who was possible in Germany only at that very moment,� Frank observed while awaiting trial in Nuremberg after the war. Had Hitler come a decade later �when the republic was firmly established,� Frank said, it would have been impossible for him to have seized power. Had he come a decade earlier, the German people would have returned to the Kaiser. As it was, Frank said, Hitler came �at exactly this terrible transitory period� when the monarchy was gone and the thirteen-year-old republic was not yet secure.

I invoked the Frank temporal formula to contrast the fragility and ultimate failure of the thirteen-year-old Weimar Republic with the two centuries that Americans�more than ten generations�had had to forge the democratic values and processes that elevated the United States to a shining example for the world. Thirty years on, that contrast and claim seem frighteningly na�ve.

As we approach the 250th anniversary of our nation�s founding, in July 2026, our republic appears to be plagued by the myriad ills that doomed Weimar�political fragmentation, social polarization, hate-filled demagoguery, a legislature gridlocked by partisan posturing, and structural anomalies in voting processes. The electoral college makes it possible, though highly improbable, that a political leader could come to power with just 37% of the popular vote, unless, of course, a third candidate could siphon significant numbers of voters from the two leading candidates.

It has been said that the Weimar Republic died twice. It was murdered and it committed suicide. There is little mystery to the murder. Hitler vowed to destroy democracy through the democratic process�and he did. An act of state suicide is less easily explained, especially when it involves a democratic republic replete with constitutional protections like freedom of expression, due process, and public referendum. As the November presidential election approaches, it is perhaps worthwhile to reflect on the lessons of Weimar and the potential consequences of electing a calculating and calibrating demagogue who promises to make the country great again.

Love how this moron purposely confuses the timeline of the Nazi's rise in the Reichstag to make it look like Hindenburg put up significant resistance before regrettably bowing to the inevitable. And the implied "we need to destroy democracy to save democracy" theme.

# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:13

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 08:16

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

My kid likes to pretend to be a dog with our actual dog and will insist i call her <name>-puppy when she does

The battle was lost before i even knew it

# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:15

Seyser Koze: Dec 15, 2013; Mucho Mucho; Nap Ghost

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

My kid likes to pretend to be a dog with our actual dog and will insist i call her <name>-puppy when she does

The battle was lost before i even knew it

Many such cases!

# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:23

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Uncle Wemus posted:

As antisemitism flourishes online, and religion is weaponized and politicized, it’s a “Sonic the Hedgehog” show (?!?!) that lights the prayer candle we need.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/knuckles-is-the-show-jews-need-right-nowseriously

No!!

# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:27

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

B B posted:

very funny top story on cnn right now:

Huh having trouble finding it. It's not on the front page at least for me or easily found in the USA or politics sections

# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:57

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Mukulu posted:

From GBS

Has anyone ever been at a large college protest before? Movements like this can never articulate their end goals and are NEVER happy. Biden shouldn't say one drat thing about them.

The fact that the left and this board are perpetuating the outage of the moment is embarrassing. The right is focusing on this on purpose. They want this kind of discussion. They have ZERO policy proposals and are resorting to dangling their keys in the next room to distract and peel apart the Democratic coalition. No one should be surprised that the media is playing along but this board and the youth vote should be smarter.

The Republicans have literally succeeded in framing the protests as against Biden and yet another culture war thing. Local overreaction by police should be a local outage, many people are allowing the right to make it an outage against Biden.

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:07

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

november is going to be epic lol

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:07

SixteenShells: Sep 30, 2021

SgtMongoose posted:

Weird how that never headlined the libs critiques of her. Almost as though embezzlement of campaign and public funds is something they love and engage in frequently and see nothing wrong with in principle.

But now for some psychic damage for the thread:

How Hitler Used Democracy to Take Power

Love how this moron purposely confuses the timeline of the Nazi's rise in the Reichstag to make it look like Hindenburg put up significant resistance before regrettably bowing to the inevitable. And the implied "we need to destroy democracy to save democracy" theme.

I'm not very well versed in the history of the time - is the issue that they make it seem like Hitler was a legislative blockade for all of 1932/33 and Hindenburg handed him the keys to just get something done, when really it was like two months of gridlock before Hindenburg said "gently caress this whole government anyway"?

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:08

SixteenShells: Sep 30, 2021

"can never articulate their end goals" stop giving Israel money and materiel isn't articulate enough? or is that discounted as a policy proposal because it's not "serious" enough?

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:09

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

lol guy sources articles where biden codemns antisemetic protest

response: i find your lack of media literacy disturbing

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:12

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

mf�in edit button

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:12

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

kristi noem's two animal murders have generated more discussion in lib spaces than the biggest college protests in 50 years.

they are so relieved that they have something else to talk about that's more important than the crimes of genocide joe.

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:15

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

SixteenShells posted:

"can never articulate their end goals" stop giving Israel money and materiel isn't articulate enough? or is that discounted as a policy proposal because it's not "serious" enough?

"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"

"Ah, they didn't say which river and which sea so we can safely disregard them as being fundamentally unserious."

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:16

HashtagGirlboss: Jan 4, 2005

Willa Rogers posted:

kristi noem's two animal murders have generated more discussion in lib spaces than the biggest college protests in 50 years.

they are so relieved that they have something else to talk about that's more important than the crimes of genocide joe.

If there�s one thing you can count on it�s that the American public generally loves dogs more than people, to the point that it�s an old joke about one dog dying in movies with triple digit body counts getting all the attention

Honestly I�m not sure why she decided that was a good story for her to even share

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:27

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

I was at an anti-Iraq war protest in Worcester in 2003 where multiple cars were set on fire and our demands were to not do the Iraq war

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:31

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

Joementum posted:

I was at an anti-Iraq war protest in Worcester in 2003 where multiple cars were set on fire and our demands were to not do the Iraq war

Hmm, but how? You haven't even written any draft legislation for anyone to look at. This is a fundamentally unserious pov.

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:33

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011; Can't post for 15 minutes!

VitalSigns posted:

Out of curiosity I looked up the Rose Garden to see if Biden undid her changes and turns out 1) No, and 2) she repaired years of neglect.

Also the pictures of "omg all the flowers are gone" were disingenuous, there are more roses than before, the pictures were of immature plants right after the renovation.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/14/politics/melania-trump-rose-garden/index.html

obama inadvertently destroying the rose garden because he valued its superficial image over reenforcing its foundations is a bit on the nose

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:39

blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

technically Hitler did make Germany great again, for
a bit

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:50

ram dass in hell: Dec 29, 2019

Alanis Morissette voice]:

HallelujahLee posted:

thank you north korea

# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:50

SgtMongoose: Feb 10, 2007

SixteenShells posted:

I'm not very well versed in the history of the time - is the issue that they make it seem like Hitler was a legislative blockade for all of 1932/33 and Hindenburg handed him the keys to just get something done, when really it was like two months of gridlock before Hindenburg said "gently caress this whole government anyway"?

Imagine a liberal government being unable to effectively govern due to an abject refusal to address material conditions. When a dissatisfied electorate punish them for this refusal/incompetence, and the liberals are forced to either ally with the fascists or the communists to govern, imagine which they choose. Crazy scenario, I know.

But seriously, the SDP kept trying to ram through austerity in 1930/31 which is what kept getting blocked in the Reichstag and forced through by executive action (because everyone who wasn't the SDP hated it). As for Hindenburg's thoughts on Hitler, he wasn't offended by Hitler's antisemitism or hate mongering. He despised Hitler for being a lowly corporal in the army vs Hindenburg's generalship and for not respecting Hindenburg's leadership of the German right/nationalists.

Read this paragraph from Hindenburg's wiki page for a distillation: