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I congratulate Yemen on their continued wins over the burger demons
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 18:03 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 17:51 |
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The DSA stands against the vanguard of capitalism and fascism. Who is that you say? Why the 3rd world nations of course.
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 19:44 |
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Weka posted:I think this sort of marketization can't generally work immediately after the revolution, otherwise it's unlikely to be tightly controlled. i agree, that's why i call him "ahead of his time". i think you needed rapid collectivization and strong command and control in order to macro up enough t-34s to beat hitler, but bukharin's desire to just let the middle peasants enrich themselves (or whatever it was) looks a little less bizarre in light of the modern era as for having actual readings to recommend: no, i am just going off what i understand as the conflict between the soviet center and bukharin's "right opposition" (like how the ancient proles of the round table podcast described him, possibly on their rev left radio guest appearance) and comments friends of mine have made. sorry! so it's possible i don't realize how stupid his ideas actually were and am talking out of my rear end
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 19:45 |
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but anyway, if i know one thing, it's this: the houthi lusts for vienna
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 19:47 |
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Weka posted:Some realpolitik is required and that will mean doing things your principles oppose. It has worked for China. Israel was a huge fail though. Stalinist non-conflict strategies have also worked for China. Don't blame Stalin for Khruschevite prostration beyond the fact that... "Realpolitik" is not a blank check. Compromises and retreats are often necessary, but this does not mean that anything and everything is permissible, and it does not mean that any decision that does not prove fatal is correct in hindsight. Communists recognize that strikes, and insurrections, and wars do not always end in victory, that one makes peace with enemies, not friends, and not always on the terms we would like. Communists also recognize that there is a difference between handing over a wallet, or even a pistol, to a bandit at gunpoint, and voluntarily assisting that bandit in subsequent murder and pillage, to wit: Lenin posted:Imagine that your car is held up by armed bandits. You hand them over your money, passport, revolver and car. In return you are rid of the pleasant company of the bandits. That is unquestionably a compromise. “Do ut des” (I “give” you money, fire-arms and a car “so that you give” me the opportunity to get away from you with a whole skin). It would, however, be difficult to find a sane man who would declare such a compromise to be “inadmissible on principle”, or who would call the compromiser an accomplice of the bandits (even though the bandits might use the car and the firearms for further robberies). Our compromise with the bandits of German imperialism was just that kind of compromise.
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:17 |
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Second Hand Meat Mouth posted:posting words I wrote elsewhere to address this Stalin slander re: Israel: I mean, I would hope no one here thinks Stalin was an ideologically committed Zionist, but that's beside the point. Many, maybe most opportunist errors and betrayals are made because the people making them think they're necessary or will have positive effects. Though if you're really arguing Stalin was fool enough to think Zionist colonialism would work out well for Arabs specifically, I think you're the one slandering him. Edit: and it isn't as though Communists didn't know what Zionism was, even the almost entirely Jewish Communist Party in Palestine, not to mention the COMINTERN, had recognized at least a decade prior that the actual base for revolution and anti-imperialism in Palestine was the Palestinian masses. Pomeroy has issued a correction as of 23:36 on Apr 28, 2024 |
# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:24 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:this genocide is bad. unfortunately, however, everyone who currently opposes the genocide is also bad. Houthi concern trolls hijacking my Temu deliveries hurt everyone, including disabled Gazans who rely on Red Sea shipping to literally eat I think you're plugged into some dumb internet stuff and probably need to stop that
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:31 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:this genocide is bad. unfortunately, however, everyone who currently opposes the genocide is also bad. Houthi concern trolls hijacking my Temu deliveries hurt everyone, including disabled Gazans who rely on Red Sea shipping to literally eat Could you find a different topic for your trolling? This poo poo sucks.
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:33 |
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I'm mocking the R&R guy here. not trolling you. sorry if that didn't come across but I thought I was laying it on pretty thick, both with that and posting the image of the tweet advocating turning anti-genocide protests into votes for AOC
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:19 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:I'm mocking the R&R guy here. not trolling you. sorry if that didn't come across but I thought I was laying it on pretty thick, both with that and posting the image of the tweet advocating turning anti-genocide protests into votes for AOC fair enough, think I'm just in an irritable mood.
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:38 |
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Pomeroy posted:"Realpolitik" is not a blank check. Compromises and retreats are often necessary, but this does not mean that anything and everything is permissible, and it does not mean that any decision that does not prove fatal is correct in hindsight. Post the times Stalin sucked off the imperialists Pomeroy posted:I mean, I would hope no one here thinks Stalin was an ideologically committed Zionist, Well, not Palestinian Zionism at least, I'm unsure in a more general sense. Ferrinus posted:it's possible i don't realize how stupid his ideas actually were and am talking out of my rear end me too buddy. this is the dsa thread : )
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:14 |
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Weka posted:Post the times Stalin sucked off the imperialists Again, you're personalizing the matter, reducing it to our speculations about the motives of Stalin the individual. What are you actually asking here? If I give you a straight answer, without clarifying terms, I am implicitly accepting your framing, thereby abusing Stalin as having "sucked off the imperialists" - this is not a good faith question. Do you think Mao was slandering Stalin when he called him 70 percent good and 30 percent bad? What was the 30 percent? As far as mistakes that were made on his watch, in relation to imperialism, apart from accommodating Zionism (and I think some folks here are drastically underselling the significance of that betrayal), Mao touches on the Chinese case here: https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/documents/polemic/qstalin.htm If you want another example, there's always Greece, and then the follow-on effects that brought about in Yugoslavia. Weka posted:Well, not Palestinian Zionism at least, I'm unsure in a more general sense. Zionism was not something the Bolsheviks were unfamiliar with, it was not new in the 1940s, and it was, from the beginning, explicitly a colonial project in search of imperialist sponsorship. In the Russian context, the Zionists were openly in league with the most counter-revolutionary Tsarists and pogromists in the country before the Revolution. Pomeroy has issued a correction as of 03:43 on Apr 29, 2024 |
# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:57 |
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Pomeroy posted:As far as mistakes that were made on his watch, in relation to imperialism, apart from accommodating Zionism (and I think some folks here are drastically underselling the significance of that betrayal), Mao touches on the Chinese case here: https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/documents/polemic/qstalin.htm virgin khrushchev vs chad mao I love this line: quote:Khrushchov said, “Ah! If only Stalin had died ten years earlier!” As everybody knows, Stalin died in 1953; ten years earlier would have been 1943, the very year when the Soviet Union began its counter-offensive in the Great Patriotic War. At that time, who wanted Stalin to die? Hitler! rudecyrus has issued a correction as of 01:30 on Apr 29, 2024 |
# ? Apr 29, 2024 01:25 |
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rudecyrus posted:virgin khrushchev vs chad mao It's a great piece. I'd rate his polemic against Togliatti higher, on a similar subject, but it's close. Pomeroy has issued a correction as of 05:18 on Apr 29, 2024 |
# ? Apr 29, 2024 01:55 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:I'm mocking the R&R guy here. not trolling you. sorry if that didn't come across but I thought I was laying it on pretty thick, both with that and posting the image of the tweet advocating turning anti-genocide protests into votes for AOC
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 03:19 |
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ah yes, I_can't_read.jpg
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 09:44 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:ah yes, I_can't_read.jpg aren’t you the moron who was running around saying Stalin allied with Hitler? How the hell are people ever supposed to believe even the wildest lib poo poo coming from you is satire when your normal takes are also wild lib poo poo?
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 10:55 |
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Lin-Manuel Turtle posted:aren’t you the moron who was running around saying Stalin allied with Hitler? How the hell are people ever supposed to believe even the wildest lib poo poo coming from you is satire when your normal takes are also wild lib poo poo? if you think somebody's opinion of a crazed paranoid alcoholic/revolutionary hero who peed his pants and died 70 years ago is a reliable indicator of their stance on gaza you should make it a point to talk to one single person in real life ASAP (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 11:05 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:if you think somebody's opinion of a crazed paranoid alcoholic/revolutionary hero who peed his pants and died 70 years ago is a reliable indicator of their stance on gaza you should make it a point to talk to one single person in real life ASAP Christ. go away and be an epic lib in gbs or please anywhere else ffs
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 11:09 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:if you think somebody's opinion of a crazed paranoid alcoholic/revolutionary hero who peed his pants and died 70 years ago is a reliable indicator of their stance on gaza you should make it a point to talk to one single person in real life ASAP
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 11:58 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:this genocide is bad. unfortunately, however, everyone who currently opposes the genocide is also bad. again, you read this ^ blindingly obvious sarcasm as sincere because I was on the other side of an ancient intraleft slapfight. take the words of our illustrious Chairman to heart and chill: quote:In struggles inside as well as outside the Party, on certain occasions and on certain questions he confused two types of contradictions which are different in nature, contradictions between ourselves and the enemy and contradictions among the people.
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:10 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:if you think somebody's opinion of a crazed paranoid alcoholic/revolutionary hero who peed his pants and died 70 years ago is a reliable indicator of their stance on gaza you should make it a point to talk to one single person in real life ASAP Cassian of Imola posted:again, you read this ^ blindingly obvious sarcasm as sincere because I was on the other side of an ancient intraleft slapfight. take the words of our illustrious Chairman to heart and chill:
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:20 |
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Stalin ftw
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:20 |
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it isn’t “intraleft” fighting to criticize Stalin for buying time for the USSR by signing Molotov-Ribbentrop, it is thoughtlessly regurgitating reactionary nonsense.
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:01 |
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DaysBefore posted:Stalin ftw
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:36 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:if you think somebody's opinion of a crazed paranoid alcoholic/revolutionary hero who peed his pants and died 70 years ago is a reliable indicator of their stance on gaza you should make it a point to talk to one single person in real life ASAP it's actually a very good indicator, since the same ultras who pretend not to understand why molotov-ribbentrop was a good move also tend to pooh-pooh other struggles for national liberation in the face of colonial invasion as "campism" or whatever, and therefore denounce cuba, vietnam, china, and palestine. they'll be like, it's "campist" to support hamas against israel, in fact the workers of BOTH countries should--
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:54 |
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The only camp I support is the work camp at my grandfathers sugar plantation
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:57 |
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DaysBefore posted:The only camp I support is the work camp at my grandfathers sugar plantation oh so we're against broadening your horizons over summer vacation now??
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:58 |
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i went to cuba last year but not with dsa
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 01:24 |
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stil thikkknh about the dsa union. That’s like having a law firm to represent your lawyer.
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 03:16 |
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them
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 03:23 |
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Lin-Manuel Turtle posted:Christ. Look, Cassian, you made Turtle break character. WTF is wrong with you?
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 04:54 |
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cassian wins
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 05:07 |
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Majorian posted:Look, Cassian, you made Turtle break character. WTF is wrong with you? this is how upset I felt: It is just that there is no better opportunity to try to drill through someone’s thick skull that every piece of received wisdom they have ever learned about Stalin is a product of bourgeois propaganda. Even learning the most basic facts about Molotov-Ribbentrop should make it clear to anyone who claims to be on the nebulous “left” that that little canard is a completely baseless lie designed solely to equivocate between socialism and the USSR and Nazi Germany for the sole benefit of Nazis and their fellow travelers. I could tell the Gaza bit was satire, but it makes no sense to show off that you could see through the liberal lie of “I support Palestine but not the evil Houthi’s who do actually do something to support them” or “I support Cuban socialism but not the evil communist dictatorship that is responsible for fighting Imperialist encroachment” but fall for the equally moronic “I support a hypothetical Soviet state, but not the evil figure who upset the bourgeoisie by trying to defend it from its enemies.” It is ignorant incoherence, and the simplest effort should make someone realize that it means something that they are obviously wrong about basic facts, and hopefully do something to educate themselves. If you want to criticize Stalin, at least pick a legitimate complaint, not one fabricated by fascists. To quote a line from a great man and musical “If you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything.”
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 05:28 |
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Lin-Manuel Turtle posted:It is just that there is no better opportunity to try to drill through someone’s thick skull that every piece of received wisdom they have ever learned about Stalin is a product of bourgeois propaganda. Even learning the most basic facts about Molotov-Ribbentrop should make it clear to anyone who claims to be on the nebulous “left” that that little canard is a completely baseless lie designed solely to equivocate between socialism and the USSR and Nazi Germany for the sole benefit of Nazis and their fellow travelers.
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 16:05 |
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Ferrinus posted:i agree, that's why i call him "ahead of his time". i think you needed rapid collectivization and strong command and control in order to macro up enough t-34s to beat hitler, but bukharin's desire to just let the middle peasants enrich themselves (or whatever it was) looks a little less bizarre in light of the modern era you can hate him for supporting the american fraction of the cpusa which eventually lead to its downfall
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 16:06 |
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Lin-Manuel Turtle posted:If you want to criticize Stalin, at least pick a legitimate complaint, not one fabricated by fascists. There's a bunch of "leftists" who are basically like if you took someone with vaguely left-wing values, but created their understanding of history and the world entirely from capitalist propaganda. So you end up with people who might be "communist," but also believe the most influential historical communists are all bad because their understanding of history/reality was derived from living in the imperial core.
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 21:07 |
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Ytlaya posted:There's a bunch of "leftists" who are basically like if you took someone with vaguely left-wing values, but created their understanding of history and the world entirely from capitalist propaganda. So you end up with people who might be "communist," but also believe the most influential historical communists are all bad because their understanding of history/reality was derived from living in the imperial core. they are "basically like" that because that's exactly what happened to them, they have been propagandized from childhood to only hear the bad things about anyone to the left of Nixon and to scrub out all the anti-capitalist things from anyone too big to be erased under that model.
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 21:09 |
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thats exactly right, mr. beast
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 22:18 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 17:51 |
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im a fascist
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# ? Apr 30, 2024 22:18 |