|
Nix Panicus posted:(Edited for sanity) I think you're posting in the wrong forum, friend. Ed: awful snipe :P Lol nice attempt to recover from being blown out of the water like a Ropucha: Nix Panicus posted:Oh, nevermind then
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 16:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 00:24 |
|
|
Wrong subforum at the very least E: oh lmao forumbanned from DnD eh
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 16:41
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:Oh, nevermind then, everyone knows you have to let the coup finish before anyone is allowed to do anything else You do not have to hand it to Russia, my friend. At this point its going 'Bu...but Both Sides' while an actual invasion is being carried out in an imperial desire to land grab. At this point - not only does any of that no longer matter, its moot compared to the outright war crimes Russia has carried out in a desire to ethnic cleanse Ukraine. Which by the way they have openly stated is their goal. So, hey, you appear to be defending genocide and ethnic cleansing. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 27, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 16:57
|
|
|
Your video has a pretty glaring lie in it that really brings into stark relief the quality of its analysis. At 27:03 your guy complains about people using a 2019 law as a justification for the 2014 secession (using a wikipedia screen grab to make the point) as though its some gotcha when its pretty effortless to look on wikipedia and find references to a 2014 attempt two days after Yanukovych fled to repeal a 2012 law that gave Russian protected language status https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine quote:Attempted repeal of the law They did eventually repeal that law and passed the aforementioned 2019 law that stripped protected status from Russian, the most commonly spoken language in Ukraine, and, for some reason Yiddish quote:The law "On Protecting the Functioning of the Ukrainian Language as the State Language" made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within certain quotas) in the work of some public authorities, in the electoral procedures and political campaigning, in pre-school, school and university education, in scientific, cultural and sporting activities, in book publishing and book distribution, in printed mass media, television and radio broadcasting, in economic and social life (commercial advertising, public events), in hospitals and nursing homes, and in the activities of political parties and other legal entities (e.g. non-governmental organizations) registered in Ukraine.[12] Some special exemptions are provided for the Crimean Tatar language, other languages of indigenous peoples of Ukraine, the English language and the other official languages of the European Union; as languages of minorities that are not EU official languages, Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish are excluded from the exemptions.[12] Also loved the casual mention of Azov as just being the heroic defenders of Mariupol and nothing else Nix Panicus fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 27, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 17:09
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:You do not have to hand it to Russia, my friend. At this point its going 'Bu...but Both Sides' while an actual invasion is being carried out in an imperial desire to land grab. At this point - not only does any of that no longer matter, its moot compared to the outright war crimes Russia has carried out in a desire to ethnic cleanse Ukraine. Let he who has not destroyed books, set up a decade long siege, and suppressed languages cast the first stone A.o.D. posted:I bet you said "Yes! Finally those nazis will be taken care of once and for all!" back in February 2022. Actually I said something closer to 'thats insane, they can't possibly succeed with that small of a force' and then later learned thats exactly what Russia did in Georgia in 2008 and they really did expect a simple week long trip to force a negotiation. Sadly, Zelensky believed the west would provide unlimited support instead of just enough of a drip to keep things going but not win, and now there are mountains of dead But I hear Russia is going to run out of shells any day now and all their tanks are rusted and even without any ammo Ukraine regularly gets 10:1 KDR so the glorious triumph of Ukraine is at hand Nix Panicus fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 27, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 17:14
|
|
|
Yep... it's definitely the weekend. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 17:21
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:Let he who has not destroyed books and suppressed languages cast the first stone What is the point of you
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 17:23
|
|
|
Yeah, I can see why Nix Panicus is forum banned in D&D.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 17:26
|
|
|
Ignore and move on, please.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 17:28
|
|
|
Antigravitas posted:Yeah, I can see why Nix Panicus is forum banned in D&D. 1 And I saw when the D&D Mod opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of wet farting, one of the four beasts saying, Come on C-SPAM, Posting is Praxis. 2 And I saw, and behold a fat pony: and he that sat on him had a Fedora and a greasy Che shirt; and a forumban was given unto him: and he went forth to post in VFW instead, perchance to eat a sixer for trolling. 3 McNally wept. Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 27, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 17:37
|
|
|
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-think-tank-warns-stagnating-industrial-output-investment-2024-04-27/quote:Russian think tank warns of stagnating industrial output, investment Here we go. Looks like the crowing about the invincibility of Russia's economy and the ineffectiveness of sanctions was, in fact, bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 19:26
|
|
|
McNally posted:Ignore and move on, please. Gonna clarify on this: If someone is in this thread being stupid, attack the arguments and not the poster. If they're not addressing arguments and just shoveling on more bullshit, let me know and I'll deal with it. I want dissenting voices to be heard, but only if they're arguing in good faith (which, admittedly, is difficult to gauge and I'm gonna screw this up sometimes). Yeah, being tossed out elsewhere tends to be a good barometer but I prefer to punish people for the dumb poo poo they say in here and not the dumb poo poo they say elsewhere. Rust Martialis posted:Ed: drat, I took time on this, McNally. Go ahead and edit it back in
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 19:30
|
|
|
You know, it's been more than two years and two months since Putin's full-scale invasion. Plenty of time for anyone to reflect how much they might've been had by Russian propaganda in the years prior. Read a book or two, re-examine who exactly the people are whose words you've been believing. It takes real dedication to bravely avoid any of that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 20:08
|
|
|
Hannibal Rex posted:You know, it's been more than two years and two months since Putin's full-scale invasion. Plenty of time for anyone to reflect how much they might've been had by Russian propaganda in the years prior. Read a book or two, re-examine who exactly the people are whose words you've been believing. It takes real dedication to bravely avoid any of that. I spent the mid/late 2010's pulling my hair out wondering when the hell the Russians became the good guys. I felt like I was taking crazy pills.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 21:31
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-think-tank-warns-stagnating-industrial-output-investment-2024-04-27/ Russia did have to try patching holes with FX trading to make up their their declining oil revenue from last year, so I totally buy that their economic prospects are less than ideal this year
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 21:41
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:Let he who has not destroyed books, set up a decade long siege, and suppressed languages cast the first stone Yeah that'd still be Russia. It remains that you are actively defending an openly imperialistic invasion that is actively promoting ethnic cleansing, including multiple genocidal actions and your nitpick is with the victim. This is a, frankly, disgusting action. Nobody here would disagree that Ukraine has made some bad mistakes but at this point, at this time and place, you have actively defended the perpetrator of the current action. Your thinking is like justifying the invasion of Poland by saying the Poles did some bad things too, so the Nazis were well justified in marching on Warsaw. Time and place make your argument petty. Right now, knowing what we know, seeing what we've seen, the issue is Russia and Russia's actions, not Ukraine. Russia is the one invading. Russia is the one actively conducting ethnic cleansing and mass deportation, ripping children from their families to put them in Russian families for re-education, has conducted multiple mass murders of towns, has decided that attacking non-military targets to emphasize terror is acceptable, and is actively slaughtering its own population in monstrous human wave campaigns. Find a better time to nitpick the victim. Even if your goal is to highlight Ukraine's internal issues, it just makes you sound like you are justifying what is going on. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 27, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 23:31
|
|
|
The people should rise up against their corrupt government and free themselves from oppression! No wait not like that
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2024 23:37
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Yeah that'd still be Russia. Did you see the way Ukraine was dressed?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2024 10:15
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:Actually I said something closer to 'thats insane, they can't possibly succeed with that small of a force' and then later learned thats exactly what Russia did in Georgia in 2008 and they really did expect a simple week long trip to force a negotiation. please correct me if i'm misunderstanding you, but it appears that you're criticizing zelenskyy for defending ukraine against russian aggression and your justification for that appears to be that georgia went through an ethnic cleansing by russian hands in 2008 and it wasn't so bad, so why wouldn't ukraine let russia do what it wanted to ukraine because that would ultimately result in fewer deaths do i have that right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2024 11:13
|
|
|
Kith posted:please correct me if i'm misunderstanding you, but it appears that you're criticizing zelenskyy for defending ukraine against russian aggression and your justification for that appears to be that georgia went through an ethnic cleansing by russian hands in 2008 and it wasn't so bad, so why wouldn't ukraine let russia do what it wanted to ukraine because that would ultimately result in fewer deaths No he's saying that because Russia defeated Georgia's three brigades in a week in 2008 they thought they'd win in a week here (they did think they'd win in a week but for completely different reasons, as those of us who have read real sources know). He also thinks that Russia aim is 'negotiations' which is a tell just like when someone says the American Civil War was about 'states rights' because the thing Russia wanted a negotiation over was how Ukraine was going to acknowledge that it is only allowed to have a government the Kremlin approves of.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2024 11:48
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:Let he who has not destroyed books, set up a decade long siege, and suppressed languages cast the first stone Or, I guess, kidnapped tens of thousands of children to _____?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 01:26
|
|
|
GD_American posted:Or, I guess, kidnapped tens of thousands of children to _____? take them to a fun summer camp?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 01:33
|
|
|
Kith posted:please correct me if i'm misunderstanding you, but it appears that you're criticizing zelenskyy for defending ukraine against russian aggression and your justification for that appears to be that georgia went through an ethnic cleansing by russian hands in 2008 and it wasn't so bad, so why wouldn't ukraine let russia do what it wanted to ukraine because that would ultimately result in fewer deaths My reading was that he's saying that his initial reaction was, like most of us, "haha oh my god, what the gently caress are the Russians doing?" followed by him thinking "oh, something like this did work before, in a different context." And what I took to be his belief, without any comment on the validity of Ukraine's right to defend itself, that Zelensky and the Ukranians are being used as a convenient sanding block to wear down one of the west's major geopolitical opponents. If you want to disagree with someone, it is important to address what they are saying, even if you think it is stupid or wrong, rather than make up an argument you want them to have made. Otherwise you may as well get your G.I. Joes out and have them argue.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 02:22
|
|
|
No, they also referenced the banning of the Russian language, which, like, Russia banned ANY use of the Ukrainian language for loving generations, so that isn't anywhere close to an equivalence, as far as I can see.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 03:47
|
|
|
Aces High posted:No, they also referenced the banning of the Russian language, which, like, Russia banned ANY use of the Ukrainian language for loving generations, so that isn't anywhere close to an equivalence, as far as I can see. (There were some rather crude things like TV quotas and the like).
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 03:53
|
|
|
Yeah, I remember when that stuff came up and whatever it was the Zelensky government did, it doesn't compare to imprisoning people for simply writing in their own language. Now, I suppose you could compare it to the reintroduction of gaelic in Scotland and Ireland, or Welsh in Wales, but those are still both examples of oppressed cultures taking steps to preserve their heritage and culture from years of oppressors forcing them to forget it and destroy it
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 04:55
|
|
|
That also wasn't the Zelensky government, it was like 2.5 governments back. Actually more like 4.5 governments back, and Zelensky government is not a thing, since the PM is Head of Government for Ukraine, not the President.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 05:12
|
|
|
I have a theory that the most fervent tankies are young North Americans - it's a lot easier to love what Russia is doing when it's a) not next door and b) you have no sense of history. Here in the EU, it's looking very different. Ask the Poles, for example. Thread-related: bumped into a guy from Ukraine today, who was dodging military service. Not sure how I feel about that, but then again I wouldn't want to go in his place so 
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 10:59
|
|
|
Mzuri posted:I have a theory that the most fervent tankies are young North Americans - it's a lot easier to love what Russia is doing when it's a) not next door and b) you have no sense of history. My theory is that nothing infuriates depressed North American leftist keyboard warriors who spend their days doomposting more than people who actually got up and had a revolution to make things better, particularly when the 'things better' involves a comprehensive rejection of their worldview.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 11:04
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:(There were some rather crude things like TV quotas and the like). France has a quota for music in radio and shows on TV, Australia has a quota for music in radio, and Brazil, Greece, and Spain have quotas for movies in cinemas.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 11:12
|
|
|
Aces High posted:that isn't anywhere close to an equivalence, as far as I can see.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 11:59
|
|
|
Herman Merman posted:What does equivalence have to do with anything? Stomping on minority rights is still a bad thing to do. The human reasons behind it can be understandable given a historical context, but it should not be lauded or defended. The Russian language thing was always a red herring. Khvarkiv and Odessa are Russian speaking regions, and Russia has had no qualms about indiscriminately bombing civilians there. Same thing goes for Mauripol. It was never about protecting the rights of Russian language speakers. It was always about using it as an excuse to invade Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 12:22
|
|
|
All I keep hearing is 10th Mountain needs to step it up and
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 14:38
|
|
|
psydude posted:The Russian language thing was always a red herring. Khvarkiv and Odessa are Russian speaking regions, and Russia has had no qualms about indiscriminately bombing civilians there. Same thing goes for Mauripol. It also ignores the fact that the high percentage of Russian speakers in any post-Soviet state has a lot to do with the intentional and systematic destruction of local cultures and language via Russification. Hell, that went on during the Imperial period too. And it continues today.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 15:23
|
|
|
Fearless posted:It also ignores the fact that the high percentage of Russian speakers in any post-Soviet state has a lot to do with the intentional and systematic destruction of local cultures and language via Russification. Hell, that went on during the Imperial period too. And it continues today. What's kinda interesting is that Soviet Union was more effective at russification than the Russian Empire since it was often more subtle about it: you would actually study Ukrainian in school, just that if you wanted a career, you had to speak Russian, and there was a lot of social perception of native languages as "dumb peasant speak". (Russian Empire of course, would just keep peasants peasants and try to shut down the intelligentsia).
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 15:43
|
|
|
I guess it's a tired joke, but: The Soviet Union at least had an ethos. And I suspect it ended the way it did because what it had become was so incongruous with what it was supposed to be, and everyone knew. Russia, meanwhile, has none of that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 15:57
|
|
|
Antigravitas posted:I guess it's a tired joke, but: The Soviet Union at least had an ethos. And I suspect it ended the way it did because what it had become was so incongruous with what it was supposed to be, and everyone knew. nonsense, sure it does, that ethos is that Russia heroically defeated the big bad ultimate evil in the great patriotic war and so became the infallible defender of humanity against the evils of fascism forevermore Fearless posted:It also ignores the fact that the high percentage of Russian speakers in any post-Soviet state has a lot to do with the intentional and systematic destruction of local cultures and language via Russification. Hell, that went on during the Imperial period too. And it continues today. reposting https://twitter.com/b_nishanov/status/1722697778076254468 because it's relevant and still makes me chuckle
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 16:44
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:What's kinda interesting is that Soviet Union was more effective at russification than the Russian Empire since it was often more subtle about it: you would actually study Ukrainian in school, just that if you wanted a career, you had to speak Russian, and there was a lot of social perception of native languages as "dumb peasant speak". (Russian Empire of course, would just keep peasants peasants and try to shut down the intelligentsia). This is pretty interesting, because the ham-fisted way that the Russian Empire tried to russify Finland in part gave birth to the idea of Finland as an independent nation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 16:45
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:What's kinda interesting is that Soviet Union was more effective at russification than the Russian Empire since it was often more subtle about it: you would actually study Ukrainian in school, just that if you wanted a career, you had to speak Russian, and there was a lot of social perception of native languages as "dumb peasant speak". (Russian Empire of course, would just keep peasants peasants and try to shut down the intelligentsia). You know the Soviets purged all the people who espoused even the existence of a Ukrainian language right? Murdering intelligentsia in conquered areas isn't some uniquely Russian Empire thing; if anything the Soviets perfected the process. But 'subtly'... lol I'm not sure where the rehabilitation of Stalinism is coming from but w/e Victis fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 16:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 00:24 |
|
|
Hajotus Maximus posted:This is pretty interesting, because the ham-fisted way that the Russian Empire tried to russify Finland in part gave birth to the idea of Finland as an independent nation. I mean, it stands to reason-- very frequently a strong sense of who we're not is the seed from which a national identity grows. Hell, human development an an individual level very much follows a similar pattern. Infants understand themselves as an extension of their parents, but this begins to change quite rapidly as they grow and gain an increasing sense of self, starting at an awareness that "I'm not Mum and Dad."
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2024 16:53
|
|