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skipmyseashells posted:the whole post is stupid but this part makes my head spin. This is like saying Jews shouldn’t have fought the Warsaw uprising because they might have been fed longer, and anyone cheering it on believes in the protocols of the elders book too My reason for being skeptical of a Hamas attack on the pier is that I see no strategic benefit to it. America is obviously an enemy and deservedly hated, but what purpose would it serve to attack them? It won't do anything to stop the Israeli oppression, it won't do anything to stop the weapons flowing, it will damage their popularity with the American population (debatable how much that matters), and it will reduce some amount of aid coming in. The benefits are...feeling good about a principled attack on enemies? A demonstration of sovereignty on their land, which isn't nothing. I wouldn't be necessarily be shocked if they attacked but it would be quite surprising. I guess it depends on what actually ends up happening in terms of security around the pier. If it's IDF forces, well, that's just another target yeah. We'll see.
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May 3, 2024 14:23
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Gucci Loafers posted:I/P is the last thing on voters minds and no parent wants to see a college campus with a bunch of people doing anything but partying or studying. Weird since Biden was strongly supportive of the BLM protests https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1786140566956163326 kind of just suggests that Dems only supported that movement because Trump was in office and would fully back brutal police crackdowns on it if it happened under Biden.
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May 3, 2024 14:40
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punishedkissinger posted:Weird since Biden was strongly supportive of the BLM protests Your opinion is pretty ridiculous and shows a clear bias in how you are interpreting events, Dems have been fairly consistent at not deploying National Guard or other federal resources, and local police generally have remained tolerant up until sidewalk encampments or camping in public places happens. At that point, the law is being broken (depending on the state), so the question of whether and how to remove the protesters becomes more complicated. Also, the universities themselves are the organizations asking the police to remove protesters, not the government. I see now you are an IK, so I can wait and see what the wrath is. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Inner Light fucked around with this message at 14:56 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 14:52
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https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1786391399824322806 Anybody doing this is wrong this isn't complicated at all actually. Joe Biden's hands are tied obviously, it is governors and university presidents demanding this response, not him. He should be trying to separate himself from this hilariously overwrought response. Congress can do what they like in inviting Bibi, but I think Biden did enough with this speech, he either shouldn't address it anymore or come out against the police violence. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 14:54
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punishedkissinger posted:kind of just suggests that Dems only supported that movement because Trump was in office and would fully back brutal police crackdowns on it if it happened under Biden. That and the lack of any police reform since. *edit whatever Black Noise fucked around with this message at 14:58 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 14:55
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Inner Light posted:Your opinion is pretty ridiculous and shows a clear bias in how you are interpreting events, Dems have been fairly consistent at not deploying National Guard or other federal resources, and local police generally have remained tolerant up until sidewalk encampments or camping in public places happens. At that point, the law is being broken (depending on the state), so the question of whether and how to remove the protesters becomes more complicated. Also, the universities themselves are the organizations asking the police to remove protesters, not the government. literally all of these things happened during the BLM protests. Biden has labelled the peace protesters anti-semitic and violent and cosigned the violent crackdown against them.
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May 3, 2024 14:56
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punishedkissinger posted:Weird since Biden was strongly supportive of the BLM protests reminder that literally days after George Floyd was killed, this was Biden's idea of supporting BLM quote:Joe Biden on Monday suggested that police forces could train officers to shoot attackers in the legs in order to reduce potential fatalities.
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May 3, 2024 15:00
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Inner Light posted:Your opinion is pretty ridiculous and shows a clear bias in how you are interpreting events, Dems have been fairly consistent at not deploying National Guard or other federal resources, and local police generally have remained tolerant up until sidewalk encampments or camping in public places happens. At that point, the law is being broken (depending on the state), so the question of whether and how to remove the protesters becomes more complicated. Also, the universities themselves are the organizations asking the police to remove protesters, not the government. quote:Joe Biden on Monday suggested that police forces could train officers to shoot attackers in the legs in order to reduce potential fatalities. Ah yes, the solution that in most states is attempted murder* *unless you're wearing a badge. Vorenus fucked around with this message at 15:05 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 15:02
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1786391399824322806 I wonder which evil chud is the governor wherever this "UCLA" is. Probably Abbott or DeSantis.
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May 3, 2024 15:05
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apparently one of the gentle restrained local cops fired a gun inside of Hamilton hall while they were cracking skulls there https://twitter.com/GwynneFitz/status/1786164112101179521
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May 3, 2024 15:22
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projecthalaxy posted:I wonder which evil chud is the governor wherever this "UCLA" is. Probably Abbott or DeSantis. No, it's the LAPD, it'll be the chud Republican mayor of LA.
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May 3, 2024 15:23
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Fidelitious posted:My reason for being skeptical of a Hamas attack on the pier is that I see no strategic benefit to it. America is obviously an enemy and deservedly hated, but what purpose would it serve to attack them? It won't do anything to stop the Israeli oppression, it won't do anything to stop the weapons flowing, it will damage their popularity with the American population (debatable how much that matters), and it will reduce some amount of aid coming in. It's more likely to be the Gaza IS branch or similar fringe group. The US is a massive prestige target. And don't underestimate how important a show of force can be for politics, romping around Gaza does very little for Israel but a lot for Bibi, so Israel is romping around Gaza. If someone stands to gain it might happen. Vorenus posted:Columbia students thanking their lucky stars that Dems only sent in one of the most heavily militarized police forces in the world, but thankfully they didn't upgrade to bringing in the folks with tanks and attack helicopters. Such a tender show of mercy. The NY cops are listening to some very dubious people in some very interesting programs. In that they have an actual Israeli fascist in their intelligence wing serving them Israeli style Intelligence(lies that let them beat people). This one seems to be a cop special and not necessarily actual orders. Barrel Cactaur fucked around with this message at 15:34 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 15:31
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Congress is going to clap for a gangster calling kids terrorists.
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May 3, 2024 15:32
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Vorenus posted:Columbia students thanking their lucky stars that Dems only sent in one of the most heavily militarized police forces in the world, but thankfully they didn't upgrade to bringing in the folks with tanks and attack helicopters. Such a tender show of mercy. Again, as I pointed out in my reply you quoted, the universities asked police to remove protesters, not Democrats and not the government. I don’t know how you expect “the Democrats” to tell local police how to respond to a request for service.
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May 3, 2024 15:49
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Inner Light posted:Again, as I pointed out in my reply you quoted, the universities asked police to remove protesters, not Democrats and not the government. I don’t know how you expect “the Democrats” to tell local police how to respond to a request for service. The heads of the universities are mostly liberals in blue states doing this with the backing of the dem establishment who have labelled the protests violent and anti-Semitic. You can argue that the dems as a party aren't directly responsible for this reaction but they absolutely support it and have encouraged it.
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May 3, 2024 15:51
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punishedkissinger posted:The heads of the universities are mostly liberals in blue states doing this with the backing of the dem establishment who have labelled the protests violent and anti-Semitic. You can argue that the dems as a party aren't directly responsible for this reaction but they absolutely support it and have encouraged it. This pretty much covers my response. Columbia didn't force Eric Adams to say the dumb poo poo he said. e: It's also the governor who can call in the NG, not the Uni leadership, so again, the argument that at least they didn't call in literal main battle tanks is a loving joke. Vorenus fucked around with this message at 16:08 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 16:02
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The problem is that while the Democrats are split on the issue, the Republicans are overwhelmingly in favour of Israel. Their candidate also has a track-record of exceptionally pro-Israel actions (eg the unprecedented recognition of Israeli land seizures in Jerusalem and the Golan Heights) and is heavily favoured by Israeli politicians. Continuing to support Israel will certainly cause some people to not vote for Biden on principal, but ultimately those voters don't really have anywhere better to go. Meanwhile the pro-Israel Democrats can and will defect to the Republicans if Biden makes a significant break with Israel. The bolded is not strictly true. It would be if everyone were frog-marched to the polls and forced to stand on hot coals until they vote for one of only two parties. In reality, they have other options which can be more appealing to them: they can vote for a third party, they can dejectedly stay home, they can reluctantly vote Blue but not volunteer or encourage others to vote. You can disagree that any of those choices are "better" from your perspective, but ultimately it's them making the choice not you. We've seen this miscalculation happen before: Since Republicans make no bones about being pro-Wall Street, our candidate can give paid speeches to Goldman-Sachs. People who don't like that ultimately don't have anywhere better to go. Since Republicans are proud racists, we can pick a candidate who calls black people Superpredators, has a long history of mass incarceration, used black slavor labor to do her laundry in the Arkansas governor's mansion, and jokes about "CP time" on the campaign trail in 2016 (  ) Black people ultimately have nowhere better to go.Since Nixon wants to double down harder on the war, we can keep escalating the Vietnam War ourselves and beat the poo poo out of anti-war protestors. They have nowhere better to go. Doesn't always work out how you think.
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May 3, 2024 16:17
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It looks like the US aid pier project is off to a great start: Israeli military demolished homes to make way for US Gaza aid pier. https://i.imgur.com/JIzjBWc.mp4 The New Humanitarian posted:The Israeli military has demolished civilian buildings and homes in the Gaza Strip to create a landing area to receive humanitarian aid from a floating pier being built by the US military, residents whose homes have been destroyed, three aid agencies working in the enclave, and a human rights monitoring group told The New Humanitarian. The New Humanitarian posted:Some 1.7 million people in Gaza – around 74% of the population – have been displaced from their homes by Israel’s nearly seven-month-long military campaign. At least 62% of homes in Gaza had been damaged or destroyed as of the end of January.
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May 3, 2024 16:28
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Inner Light posted:Your opinion is pretty ridiculous and shows a clear bias in how you are interpreting events, Dems have been fairly consistent at not deploying National Guard or other federal resources, and local police generally have remained tolerant up until sidewalk encampments or camping in public places happens. At that point, the law is being broken (depending on the state), so the question of whether and how to remove the protesters becomes more complicated. Also, the universities themselves are the organizations asking the police to remove protesters, not the government. Just because laws are being broken doesn't necessarily justify the state response. Or, if we're looking at this from a coldly amoral perspective, doesn't necessarily deter more lawbreaking if the authoritarian reaction is seen as unjust. Jaywalking breaks the law, but gassing and beating jaywalkers would be an extreme overreaction, for example. Martin Luther King Jr broke the law, but jailing him wasn't right (nor, crucially, did it accomplish the states' goals of ending civil disobedience and demonstrations) Demonstrators in Hong Kong broke the law.
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May 3, 2024 16:29
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Rebel Blob posted:It looks like the US aid pier project is off to a great start: Sorry we had to bulldoze your house to bring you some MREs. What a loving joke.
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May 3, 2024 16:31
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Vorenus posted:This pretty much covers my response. Columbia didn't force Eric Adams to say the dumb poo poo he said. Also, the police are part of the executive branch. The mayor doesn't have to send in the riot cops just because the university asked him to, and anyway it's clear these mayors aren't helpless bystanders, they are actively supporting it (well mostly, DC and PA seem to be an exception so far, which just highlights how absurd it is to argue other city governments are helpless before the University deans). Also, the president could federalize the Guard and order them to stay in their barracks to prevent a governor from using them to brutalize Americans. It's been done before. Or send them out himself to protect the constitutional rights of Americans. Also been done before. The theory of the helpless executive is rather novel. And once again, Biden has made it quite clear that he supports what the cops and the military are being ordered to do. Vorenus posted:Sorry we had to bulldoze your house to bring you some MREs. What a loving joke. Yeah wow, I wouldn't have been surprised if the pier brought zero benefit, but it actually bringing negative benefit wasn't on my bingo card, although in hindsight I suppose it should have been
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May 3, 2024 16:42
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VitalSigns posted:The bolded is not strictly true. It would be if everyone were frog-marched to the polls and forced to stand on hot coals until they vote for one of only two parties. In reality, they have other options which can be more appealing to them: they can vote for a third party, they can dejectedly stay home, they can reluctantly vote Blue but not volunteer or encourage others to vote. You can disagree that any of those choices are "better" from your perspective, but ultimately it's them making the choice not you.
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May 3, 2024 17:10
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Turnout is usually low among young people. I bet this also has some influence here.
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May 3, 2024 17:14
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How do you think it’ll affect future trust in the party when someone who was able to bite their tongue and over look thirty thousand deaths learns that it’s actually in the hundreds of thousands? When the profitable media cover ups start being replaced by profitable media exposes? Or is every institution going to just hold the line indefinitely and agree that no, a year of obliterated infrastructure and famine and compleye loss of medical care didn’t really add to the 30k death toll? The current moment is the absolute high water mark for sympathy for Israel and the absolute low water mark for suffering inflicted by Israel. It will be so much worse by November.
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May 3, 2024 17:24
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I absolutely expect most institutions to deny or at least downplay the genocide. I don't expect "profitable exposes" from media networks with the reach and funding to carry them out. I do agree that support for Israel will continue to decline, though.
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May 3, 2024 17:29
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Rebel Blob posted:It looks like the US aid pier project is off to a great start: Israeli military demolished homes to make way for US Gaza aid pier. Now I understand the purpose of this pier. It's to start a new port and port city for Israel as they take over the territory. Internet Explorer fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 17:36
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Halloween Jack posted:I absolutely expect most institutions to deny or at least downplay the genocide. I don't expect "profitable exposes" from media networks with the reach and funding to carry them out. I do agree that support for Israel will continue to decline, though. I feel like the lies of military intelligence were diligently stenographed during the lead up to the Iraq war and then bravely exposed once they had done their job and it didn’t matter anymore. Don’t see why it’d be different here. Like unless you think that the state of Israel has a better control over our media apparatus than we do. I guess the timing could be such that it takes until past its electoral relevance which I suppose isn’t really possible to predict.
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May 3, 2024 17:41
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celadon posted:...military intelligence... Two words combined that cant make sense! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 3, 2024 17:43
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Are the moderates so determined to side with the genociders that they couldn't be vote scolded into voting for an anti-genocide party? Is that the calculation that has led Democrats to crackdown on pro-Palestinian voters? I turn out for every single election and vote straight Democrat, they could not ask for a more loyal and consistent voter. Spent years convincing uneducated white dudes from the South that it's in their best interest to vote for Democrats. But as it is I am thoroughly disgusted with Biden and the rest of the feckless cowards infesting the Democratic party. Just completely and utterly incapable of doing the right thing. I am only just barely inclined to vote for Genocide Joe in November, I'm certainly not going to be out trying to convince anyone else that they should go vote for him. From where I'm sitting, these "moderates" look and sound just like Republicans.
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May 3, 2024 17:57
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celadon posted:I feel like the lies of military intelligence were diligently stenographed during the lead up to the Iraq war and then bravely exposed once they had done their job and it didn’t matter anymore. Don’t see why it’d be different here. Like unless you think that the state of Israel has a better control over our media apparatus than we do. I guess the timing could be such that it takes until past its electoral relevance which I suppose isn’t really possible to predict.
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May 3, 2024 17:59
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I explicitly stated in my post that Biden's course "will certainly cause some people to not vote for Biden on principal" (whether that results in them voting 3rd party or not voting at all). I am aware that the current situation will cause harm for Biden, it just seems clear that the alternative is worse because in that scenario the (roughly equal number of) pro-Israel Democrats aren't just having to make a call on whether they should abstain on principal, but rather whether they should vote for a candidate who much better represents their views. Not only do they have a far stronger reason to defect, but each defection is twice as painful because they will be voting for the other guy rather than not voting. This is still reductive, you can't tell from a poll whose votes you're going to lose, unless you just assume everyone who answers "yes" to lethal aid for Israel is a single-issue voter. Which, given how little Americans typically care about foreign policy, isn't automatic. If someone agrees with lethal aid, but cares more about abortion rights, it's unlikely they'll vote Republican, for example. You also can't tell whether they support the issue because of a firmly held principle, or whether they support it because their political team is doing it. It's pretty common for people's opinions on issues they don't care much about to flip if their party flips too. See: Republicans and RUSSIA from candidate Romney to President Trump. Of course the whole conversation is arguably irrelevant since it's well-documented that policy does not correlate to public preferences, but to elite preferences, otherwise the US would have ended a lot of wars a lot sooner, and not started some others in the first place. Given Biden's history it's plain he is committed to fully backing Israel for his own reasons and isn't just helplessly twisting in the winds of public opinion.
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May 3, 2024 18:25
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Mustang posted:From where I'm sitting, these "moderates" look and sound just like Republicans. I do genuinely think that's the Democrats' (or at least their Bidenite wing's) strategy, not to outflank but to encircle all the Republican positions with a few specific incredibly unpopular positions like abortion. It's actually a pretty smart strategy if you understand that they -- correctly! -- recognize that their real enemy is the nascent American left and they're unwilling and probably largely unable to pull them back into the fold. Anything the left wants is diametrically opposed to their power/funding structures, but that's not true on the right. They figure, and probably correctly so, that they can thread the needle between giving the Trump and Trump-alike-averse R voters what they want, while keeping enough nominal "woke" and/or catastrophizing vote-or-we're-all-dead messaging to keep most of their diehard D voters as well as the collection of whatever center-left-liberals are scared enough to VBNMW. They get what they want, they potentially expand into a new voting base, and they hoodwink or cow enough of their existing voting base to cruise into their reelections. It's about as smart as you can get if you're not willing to bend on anything like actual material concessions for the working class. It'll probably only work for a generation (if it does), but what do they care? They'll be dead or retired before then. israel is completely non-negotiable in this sense. Not only is it incredibly important for their funding structure, but it's a hard line for conservative voters from "liberal" zionists to Christian zionists.
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May 3, 2024 18:52
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Jaxyon posted:So to get this straight, you think the Qassam brigades will attack the pier feeding their people? Yes? Why is that so hard to believe. You think Hamas cares about the Palestinian people?
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May 3, 2024 19:42
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Charliegrs posted:Yes? Why is that so hard to believe. You think Hamas cares about the Palestinian people? You think they don't?
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May 3, 2024 19:50
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Charliegrs posted:Yes? Why is that so hard to believe. You think Hamas cares about the Palestinian people? Edit: From your previous posts you don't appear to be a genocidal Hasbara lunatic, so I assume you must be confused about what Hamas is and who comprises its membership. They're not transnational jihadist group who decided that Gaza is the ideal venue to fight the Great Satan, or whatever you might be imagining. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:00 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 19:53
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Charliegrs posted:Yes? Why is that so hard to believe. You think Hamas cares about the Palestinian people? Completely
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May 3, 2024 19:55
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Charliegrs posted:Yes? Why is that so hard to believe. You think Hamas cares about the Palestinian people? it is completely and utterly insane to think that the people fighting for the freedom of Palestine don't actually care about Palestine. Are they really just mindless savages to you?
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May 3, 2024 19:57
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Terror groups often do things that seem counterproductive in service of either internal ideology or internal/proximal politics. Like burning their political allies food supply to force them to fight rather than sit besieged. Done by the zealots to the garrison of Jerusalem, right before they fled to a mountain citadel.
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May 3, 2024 20:31
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:it is completely and utterly insane to think that the people fighting for the freedom of Palestine don't actually care about Palestine. Are they really just mindless savages to you? The belief that politicians, or a political party, care about anything other than their political and personal enrichment is usually deluded and dangerous. Here's an understatement: not everything Hamas has done can be explained by the claim that they're "mindless savages", and I don't think all of it can be explained by a deep, principled commitment to the welfare of every Palestinian, but it can all be explained by the pretty obvious idea that the party's leaders want to be the leaders of a powerful, independent Palestinian state, and in the meantime they want to be leaders of whatever resistance exists in Palestine - that they are ordinary (except for their level of competency) political actors in an extraordinary situation. I find it completely plausible that they would attack the pier the US government is constructing. To continue the comparison, imagine if the Nazis tried to set up parking lots for aid trucks in the Warsaw Ghetto, during the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. Of course the rebels would attack it! It's the enemy! What's the alternative, permit the enemy to organize infrastructure in the territory you're asking people to fight and die to protect from them? Once you start saying "yes they are our enemy in certain contexts but in another context we'll be permitting them within our borders to distribute aid," it's objectively collaboration, and it's going to be read as tantamount to betrayal of the martyrs, right? Unless the idea is that Palestinian public sentiment sharply delineates between the Israeli and American militaries, which is not plausible at all to me. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 21:24 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 21:10
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:You think they don't? It was known well before the attacks in October 23 that Isreal always overreacts to an extreme degree. They knew before doing the attacks on the scale they did in Oct that the overreaction from Isreal would be extremely bad for everybody in Gaza. They might not have realized it would be genocide bad. The Saudi’s / Egypt normalizing with Israel would have been an existential problem for Hamas as a group and that’s probably why it all happened.
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