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Subjunctive posted:I take back 10% of the bad things I’ve said about the UK. I'm in the UK and i regret nothing i’ve said about them (especially the Tories). 
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May 3, 2024 21:59
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Murgos posted:There is already a 30 cal so it would be a lot of effort to go through to bore out the steel of the front of the tank and the glacis to mount a larger barrel and then there is the logistics of the internals of the turret and the M2 receiver is a big loving bitch and then slap in an ammo can and like, whatever there's no room? I went back to Armored Thunderbolt by Steven Zaloga, and got this: quote:The Third Army's modernization effort included other improvements as well. The tankers wanted a more powerful coaxial gun than the usual .30-cal machine gun, so some .50-caliber aircraft machine guns were "liberated" and fitted to many tanks." In the next page, he shows off a picture of an M4A3E8 .50-cal coaxial, and the barrel sticks out noticeably further (wherein the normal .30 cal coaxial doesn't stick out at all). Many of these upgrades were performed at "factories in Belgium." Apparently the .50 that was mounted was the AN/M2 aircraft model, which fit the mounting better than the ground forces' M2. I have to imagine they had cooling issues. I mostly checked myself on this to make sure I wasn't spewing half-remembered bullshit as fact.
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May 4, 2024 03:43
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Pennsylvanian posted:I went back to Armored Thunderbolt by Steven Zaloga, and got this: Okay, so they found some large metal working facility and then did the rework? Still seems difficult, like how do you bore through all that steel while it’s all still mounted to the chassis? Or, did they partially disassemble the turret to get access with the big tools? Does it say how many tanks were modded like this? “Third army” was a LOT of tanks.
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May 4, 2024 15:24
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Not in that book, no, and no details on how it was done. It could be in one of Zaloga's more tank-specific books. The most well-known unit to use the .50 cal co-axials was the 37th Armored Regiment, as many of their M4A3E2s, including the famous "Cobra King" had the .50-cal co-ax. The unit that apparently did the modification was the 126th Armored Ordnance Maintenance Battatlion. There were a lot of unofficial field modifications to the Sherman in the ETO in '44-'45. In the same section, he talks about an applique armor program that cut armor plating off of decommissioned Shermans and welded them onto working Shermans that apparently was also effective. This was only practiced by certain units of the Third Army. These types of programs were more official in the Third Army since Patton himself famously ordered his tankers to not make ad-hoc armor from sandbags/rocks/trees (for fear of wearing down the drive trains for no advantage), and instead opted for more uniform programs. Meanwhile, most units just sort of let tankers do what they wanted as long as their fighting capabilities weren't hindered. It was common practice for individual tanks to rip off their default M2HB's as they were mounted behind the turret (Supposedly as they would get caught on low-hanging obstacles), and either ditched them or re-mounted them on the commander's hatch. That, or they'd mount a .30-cal for the commander. M18 Hellcats typically re-mounted their .50s to a more comfortable position for the commander, though those were both obviously easier programs. Again, it's mostly that Third Army regiments had more documentation and uniformity to these types of programs than others.
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May 4, 2024 16:16
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Boring through the turret might not have been necessary. If they were using AN/M2s for their .50 coaxes then the opening for the M1919 may have been sufficient as it was. A quick Google image search shows me there was a decent amount of extra space around the M1919 cooling jacket, which was roughly half an inch smaller than the AN/M2 barrel (based on a half-assed search of barrel dimensions).
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May 4, 2024 16:23
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I feel somewhere on SA we had this exact discussion and McNally came in with the same explanation.
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May 4, 2024 17:04
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I’d assume they were overrunning plenty of German armor repair depots too so the forward units would Have the occasional access to equipment to help with these infield jobs.
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May 4, 2024 17:07
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Flikken posted:I feel somewhere on SA we had this exact discussion and McNally came in with the same explanation. It was here. Last week.
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May 4, 2024 17:08
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Ukraine: unofficial field modifications to Russian materiel
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May 4, 2024 17:35
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Crab Dad posted:I’d assume they were overrunning plenty of German armor repair depots too so the forward units would Have the occasional access to equipment to help with these infield jobs. I'd be surprised if American maintenance units didn't have access to a lot of that kind of machinery organically.
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May 4, 2024 18:05
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Fearless posted:I'd be surprised if American maintenance units didn't have access to a lot of that kind of machinery organically. Central depots were extremely well equipped indeed but a lot of the heavy work would have been done further behind the rapidly moving lines and our supply of road vehicles that could transport our “medium” tanks was vast so there wasn’t a need be close to the lines like the German depots. So why not both?
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May 4, 2024 18:22
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Crab Dad posted:I’d assume they were overrunning plenty of German armor repair depots too so the forward units would Have the occasional access to equipment to help with these infield jobs. Most German repair depots were the factory the made the tanks. Nazi logistics and sustainment was horrendous.
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May 4, 2024 21:22
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A.o.D. posted:Most German repair depots were the factory the made the tanks. Nazi logistics and sustainment was horrendous. Ok I meant like 2 lories, a wrecker and hoist not a full depot like what the Americans would be creating. Basically plenty of maintenance was done in field and they had to be a lot more resourceful because of the lack of a functioning supply line after the fall of 44. I was just recently reading on one of the Brit vs German tank fights in Normandy and the lol amounts of breakdowns and over night repairs to make runners was not noted as too out of the ordinary for the tired tigers that had to move on their own from site to site. I guess what I’m saying is that i don’t put it past any American backyard mechanic to pass on a chance to gently caress around with his ride at the drop of a dime. Should have seen the armor plating our boys were making for unarmored trucks during Desert Storm. Mad Max ain’t got much on them.
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May 4, 2024 21:50
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Mini-doc from United24 (Ukranian state media) about a couple of reporters who are embedded in squads that come under attack. (No gore or video of people being hit, some of the defenders get injured) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgJFPJ64aR0
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May 4, 2024 22:43
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Looks like the Russians have been able to expand the breach at Avdiivka into a larger breakthrough. It's progressing at a walking pace, but it could turn bad if they can take highway T-0504. https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1786915509788610761 The lack of depth in Ukrainian fortifications was already noted on during winter. Contributing factors include:
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May 5, 2024 13:30
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Looks like the Russians have been able to expand the breach at Avdiivka into a larger breakthrough. It's progressing at a walking pace, but it could turn bad if they can take highway T-0504. They're not difficult to procure, the problem is they don't live very long. Drones range everywhere, especially in the places where a preparatory line would have to be built. A civillian excavator, even if you bolt on some armor somehow, won't last long when the FPV drones come. It's a huge, slow target with a lot of weaknesses. This is why trenches are mostly dug by hand at this point. Also of course, a severe lack of a culture of wearing 'Forklift/Excavator Certified Badass' t shirts means they just don't have as many people who know how to do it.
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May 5, 2024 13:41
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Looks like the Russians have been able to expand the breach at Avdiivka into a larger breakthrough. It's progressing at a walking pace, but it could turn bad if they can take highway T-0504. Seems like an easy way for the EU to drop in a couple $billion is to evaluate some probable defensive positions about 50 to 100 miles back and just build em out in the finest WW1 style with multiple fall back positions that are exposed from the rear and with facilities designed to withstand prolonged bombardments. I mean EU construction crews and equipment.
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May 5, 2024 13:53
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Murgos posted:Seems like an easy way for the EU to drop in a couple $billion is to evaluate some probable defensive positions about 50 to 100 miles back and just build em out in the finest WW1 style with multiple fall back positions that are exposed from the rear and with facilities designed to withstand prolonged bombardments. Again, problems with this is how do you get EU construction crews to go there and do it? I guess if you pay them enough they might, but they'd be a target and honestly as far as legitimate targets go, they'd be one. There's other stuff though, like the complete collapse of army morale 'oh, ok, so the EU came in and built positions 70 miles behind Kherson? awesome. We'll just keep on keeping on here meanwhile.'. There's a million more problems with an idea like that. I wish it was feasible though, I really do.
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May 5, 2024 14:04
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If the wages are good enough, finding people willing to do construction work in warzones will not be a problem.
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May 5, 2024 14:06
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Nuclear War posted:They're not difficult to procure, the problem is they don't live very long. Drones range everywhere, especially in the places where a preparatory line would have to be built. A civillian excavator, even if you bolt on some armor somehow, won't last long when the FPV drones come. It's a huge, slow target with a lot of weaknesses. This is why trenches are mostly dug by hand at this point. Nuclear War posted:Again, problems with this is how do you get EU construction crews to go there and do it? Jasper Tin Neck fucked around with this message at 14:14 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 14:06
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Dick Ripple posted:If the wages are good enough, finding people willing to do construction work in warzones will not be a problem. I genuinely don't agree. This wouldn't be contractor work the green zone in Baghdad (I know that's not what you said) but working under constant threat of everything from a shahed, FPV or a glide bomb out of loving nowhere. Something like this can't be kept secret either, so the Russians would be all about making it untenable. When casualties aren't a maybe, but an absolute certainty I don't think you'd be able to hire people to do it. Again, I'm all for it, it would be a genuinely good thing if it could be done, but the way the battlefield looks right now IMHO it's just theorycrafting because I really can't see it happening -if nothing else the PR nightmare in European nations would be insane after the first casualties.
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May 5, 2024 14:18
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:I can't imagine the equipment being regular hi-vis yellows and oranges helps with the drone issue either. In addition to olive drab paint, remote control conversion kits for heavy equipment do exist and they have obvious applications in demining as well, which could help keep certified lives out of drone range. Double posting, woop. Again, most construction workers are already in uniform, in the EU, 'dodging' the draft in Ukraine already or in essentials professions. There's not really a reserve army of labor standing around. Remote control is a good call though, though it doesn't negate the whole vulnerability thing. But it does save certified lives.
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May 5, 2024 14:28
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surely there’s a way to use F-16s and ATACMS to dig trenches
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May 5, 2024 14:30
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Subjunctive posted:surely there’s a way to use F-16s and ATACMS to dig trenches Send Ukraine nukes, dig trenches with nukes.  Project plowshare, but for military purposes.
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May 5, 2024 15:01
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windshipper posted:Send Ukraine nukes, dig trenches with nukes. Those who turn their little boy into plowshares do so for the fatman who will not.
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May 5, 2024 15:20
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windshipper posted:Send Ukraine nukes, dig trenches with nukes. Ukraine decides to place the trenches 20 miles behind the Russian front lines.  --------------- That army rotation ballsup appears to have ended poorly for Ukraine, they are getting stretched.
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May 5, 2024 15:28
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An interesting piece about how North Korean ballistic missiles are being used in Ukraine. Tl;dr is that NK appears to be supplying Russia with the good stuff, and not so much the janky export-market weapons that they've been shipping to Iran and friends for the past few decades. They also seem to have no issues at all with their missile production pipeline despite sanctions, with US-made components manufactured in 2023 recovered from NK ballistic missile wreckage in Ukraine. I'm also wondering if anyone in the EU decision making structure is feeling just a little bit embarrassed by being out-supplied several times over by North Korea with something like 7k shipping containers worth of artillery ammo supplied so far with cargo ships going in shuttle traffic between NK and Russia. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68933778
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May 5, 2024 17:20
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Nuclear Tourist posted:An interesting piece about how North Korean ballistic missiles are being used in Ukraine. Tl;dr is that NK appears to be supplying Russia with the good stuff, and not so much the janky export-market weapons that they've been shipping to Iran and friends for the past few decades. They also seem to have no issues at all with their missile production pipeline despite sanctions, with US-made components manufactured in 2023 recovered from NK ballistic missile wreckage in Ukraine. The Hermit Kingdom is something like 33% military. Even if the nation is absolutely destitute, they outspend a whole lot of far wealthier nations.
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May 5, 2024 17:27
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Nuclear War posted:I genuinely don't agree. This wouldn't be contractor work the green zone in Baghdad (I know that's not what you said) but working under constant threat of everything from a shahed, FPV or a glide bomb out of loving nowhere. Something like this can't be kept secret either, so the Russians would be all about making it untenable. When casualties aren't a maybe, but an absolute certainty I don't think you'd be able to hire people to do it. "Sucks for the other guys, I'm gonna make a ton of quick cash and come back home with a new car full of coke and whores." - Every war-time contractor in human history I'm not saying it will happen or anything but if everything else to build the defenses is there, getting the bodies to build it are not the problem. Never has been in human history.
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May 5, 2024 17:28
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Looks like the Russians have been able to expand the breach at Avdiivka into a larger breakthrough. It's progressing at a walking pace, but it could turn bad if they can take highway T-0504. Is there some daylight visible here? What I heard was russia will have trouble exploiting any breach to turn it into a full on breakthrough due to lack of armored vehicle support that could do such a thing. I'm trying to find reasons/hope that the outcome of all this won't be another year or two of degrading the ukranian forces until there is a general collapse of the front line or something similarly dire.
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May 5, 2024 17:48
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Ronwayne posted:Is there some daylight visible here? What I heard was russia will have trouble exploiting any breach to turn it into a full on breakthrough due to lack of armored vehicle support that could do such a thing. I'm trying to find reasons/hope that the outcome of all this won't be another year or two of degrading the ukranian forces until there is a general collapse of the front line or something similarly dire. If Ukraine can stabilize their manpower things should start looking better. If the French are serious about supplemental boots on the ground in the Ukrainian rear that could help immensely. At the moment however, things are looking pretty dire.
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May 5, 2024 17:53
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Russia doesn’t require some big rapid breakthrough to win in the next year or three. They just need their manpower and industrial output to somewhat outpace the speed of Ukrainian defensive power (fortifications, munitions, manpower).
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May 5, 2024 17:55
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CoffeeQaddaffi posted:If Ukraine can stabilize their manpower things should start looking better. If the French are serious about supplemental boots on the ground in the Ukrainian rear that could help immensely. At the moment however, things are looking pretty dire. Even French construction battalions would answer the "foreign contractors" question from before
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May 5, 2024 18:00
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Ronwayne posted:I'm trying to find reasons/hope that the outcome of all this won't be another year or two of degrading the ukranian forces until there is a general collapse of the front line or something similarly dire. Russia grinding Ukraine into dust will be moderately embarrassing for the EU and US and will make pledges of support from the West a little more worthless than they currently are. Whether we collectively care that much or are happy to cede global security credibility to someone else is still an open question.
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May 5, 2024 18:09
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Yes, (one of) the most frustrating parts of this is "Well, we could stop this, but, you know, eh  "
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May 5, 2024 18:11
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Ronwayne posted:Yes, (one of) the most frustrating parts of this is "Well, we could stop this, but, you know, eh It's doubly frustrating to me, since I went off to Desert Storm because of this exact scenario.
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May 5, 2024 18:32
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NJersey posted:"Sucks for the other guys, I'm gonna make a ton of quick cash and come back home with a new car full of coke and whores." - Every war-time contractor in human history Exactly. If the EU is like the US then all the heavy equipment is owned by leasing companies. Just lease it with the expectation that you (the EU) is going to be 1:1 replacing every piece of equipment and call it a day. Once that’s done you offer 150 euro an hour for a licensed heavy equipment operator and they’ll kill themselves working 20 hour days to dig and pour trenches and bunkers. 90% of which can probably be prefabricated and railed forward.
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May 5, 2024 18:36
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Madurai posted:It's doubly frustrating to me, since I went off to Desert Storm because of this exact scenario. To be fair, the UNSC condemned Iraq’s invasion and a coalition spanning North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa came together to directly fight against Iraq. The two scenarios aren’t really the same.
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May 5, 2024 18:36
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CoffeeQaddaffi posted:If Ukraine can stabilize their manpower things should start looking better. If the French are serious about supplemental boots on the ground in the Ukrainian rear that could help immensely. At the moment however, things are looking pretty dire. The only current daylight is the renewed arms shipments. Russian analysists/bloggers were saying a few weeks ago that the Ukrainians were not even bothering at shooting at their planes in areas that were previously no go/high risk due to lack of munitions. And according to these guys https://frontelligence.substack.com/p/fronteline-analysis-a-concise-look, Ukraine will be able to stabilize the lines sometime this fall. Macron said France will intervene if the Russians reach Kiev or Odessa, which hopefully we will not get to that point. Nuclear War posted:Double posting, woop. Again, most construction workers are already in uniform, in the EU, 'dodging' the draft in Ukraine already or in essentials professions. There's not really a reserve army of labor standing around. Remote control is a good call though, though it doesn't negate the whole vulnerability thing. But it does save certified lives. With the closure of Consular services for those who have not registered for the draft, living in the EU is going to get tough if they want to do so legally. With modern equipment the manpower requirements for building fortifications is not that great, and I am not referring to some Maginot line, but trenches with proper drainage and reinforced bunkers/living quarters. The frontline trenches are a different story, as that will be done by the grunts and whatever tools and equipment they can get their hands on.
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May 5, 2024 18:54
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mlmp08 posted:To be fair, the UNSC condemned Iraq’s invasion and a coalition spanning North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa came together to directly fight against Iraq. The two scenarios aren’t really the same. Also, quite critically, Iraq didn’t have nuclear weapons or any ability to retaliate against the US or anyone else who intervened.
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May 5, 2024 23:14
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