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Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug

MrYenko posted:

I picked up a VP Force Rhino
Casually looked up the manual and... it uses 150 watts and has cooling fans?!?

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Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
So I guess the patent for FFB for plane controllers expired? I looked up a video of that thing, and holy poo poo.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Reading the same manual, I have a different question: does it only support button mapping, or can you actually set up more involved button logic (eg one logic button on press, another on release; a logic button being activated when some combination of other buttons are or aren't pressed; rapid-fire presses being sent when a button is held down etc)?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Tippis posted:

Reading the same manual, I have a different question: does it only support button mapping, or can you actually set up more involved button logic (eg one logic button on press, another on release; a logic button being activated when some combination of other buttons are or aren't pressed; rapid-fire presses being sent when a button is held down etc)?

I haven’t gotten that far. So far I’m just using it like you’d use a Warthog, button-wise. I know it does physical to logical mapping, but I don’t know if it can shift dynamically.

JayKay
Sep 11, 2001

And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

FWIW, while the VKB software has a bit of a learning curve, there's a ton of resources out there about it. VKB has a bunch of videos and there's a VKB rep on Reddit that's always chiming in when someone posts a question/issue.

I was pretty intimidated at first but from watching the videos and google searches, I've been able to program the crap out of my STECS and Gunfighter.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

Cojawfee posted:

So I guess the patent for FFB for plane controllers expired? I looked up a video of that thing, and holy poo poo.

The FFB patent for joysticks expired a few years ago (2019, IIRC), so it's mostly a case of FFB flight controllers being significantly more complex (and expensive) to design and manufacture than non FFB models, and it being a niche market within a niche market.

It also didn't help that the timing of the crackdown on FFB parents coincided pretty well with PC flight simulators largely dying off around 2006-10, so the market was pretty miniscule until MSFS came out.

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019

A safety-conscious little mouse!

Tippis posted:

Reading the same manual, I have a different question: does it only support button mapping, or can you actually set up more involved button logic (eg one logic button on press, another on release; a logic button being activated when some combination of other buttons are or aren't pressed; rapid-fire presses being sent when a button is held down etc)?

Dunno, but you can run a vkb grip with the vkb black box on it, so you can just use that for button stuff. This is also great because the vkb adaptor lets you angle the grip without an extension, which it doesn't really need.

FFB is great, but heatblur needs to fix the viggen and tomcat, the trim doesn't play nice with autopilot.

froody guy
Jun 25, 2013

MrYenko posted:

VP Force Rhino

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck

MrYenko posted:

I picked up a VP Force Rhino after being on the waiting list for… Awhile.

I’m using it with the grip from my Warthog, and a short extension, and bolted to my sim rig.

Holy. loving. poo poo.

The software is excellent, if a bit in-progress. It takes a bit of poking and prodding to get it all working as intended, but in DCS specifically, Holy. loving. poo poo. Force trim in helicopters Just Works. Perfectly. In warbirds, it absolutely shines; Control forces build with speed, trim removes control force in a completely natural way, and just everything related to flying the airplane is so much easier. I haven’t tried it in IL2 yet, but it’s apparently excellent there as well.

Bad news: MSFS does not export control forces in any way. VP Force gets around this by generating its own using MSFS aircraft telemetry. This actually works reasonably well, but needs to be painstakingly set up. Good news though, you can set up profiles for individual aircraft. These will override the generic profile, though I haven’t really gotten MSFS working to my satisfaction due to time constraints.

Bottom line, it’s pricy but absolutely worth it if you can swing it. If your 3D modeling and printer skills are up to snuff, Walmis sells the motors as a package with the software for a much more reasonable price. Lots of people are using them to build FFB collectives (which I think is kinda overkill) and rudder pedals (which I think would fuckin’ rule) as well.

Gosh I miss my Sidewinder FFB2. Trimming out elevator control forces was so satisfying.

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

Is there any easy fix for scenery, particularly on runways, causing a jumpscare because the plane hits an invisible ramp or rut while on the landing roll out causing a 737 to ground loop?

Wolfy
Jul 13, 2009

Free stuff

https://fselite.net/content/inibuilds-releases-milwaukee-mitchell-intl-airport-for-free-on-msfs/

froody guy
Jun 25, 2013

Do you all use reshade to play your amazing screenshot generator of choice? Are there other similar tools?

One in the Bum
Apr 25, 2014

Hair Elf
Beyond ATC dropped their release today https://www.beyondatc.net/download

Bentai
Jul 8, 2004


NERF THIS!


VFR is a little rough. I got handed off from tower, to departure, to center, when I was barely 200' above traffic pattern altitude a half mile from the field.

Basic voices and voice recognition is good though!

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


Ohhh nice.

Theris
Oct 9, 2007

VFR support is a "maybe, eventually" thing.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


Bentai posted:

VFR is a little rough. I got handed off from tower, to departure, to center, when I was barely 200' above traffic pattern altitude a half mile from the field.

Basic voices and voice recognition is good though!

how did you get vfr to work, it wants me to do a navigraph account is there a vfr option there?

JayKay
Sep 11, 2001

And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

X-Crafts released a free version of their E-Jets (E175 & E195) as part of a 10 year anniversary celebration for X-Plane

They're not bad and you can't beat the price.

Bentai
Jul 8, 2004


NERF THIS!


tater_salad posted:

how did you get vfr to work, it wants me to do a navigraph account is there a vfr option there?

Simbrief has a VFR option when you file, but as mentioned by Theris actual VFR support for Beyond ATC is a "maybe, eventually" thing, so even if you filed a VFR flight plan in Simbrief, it will still treat you as an IFR flight. I wasn't aware of that limitation, but overall there's a lot of potential here, really looking forward to the future of the product.

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

The main developer said in the recent interview that the platform and the way it works with AI is not really suitable for VFR and he pointed to SayIntentions as the preferred solution if that’s what you’re after. These two platform use AI in different ways - BeyondATC uses AI to fill ins standard phraseology templates, while say intentions is more like an LLM, since for VFR there’s much less interaction with the sim systems required.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


yeah I'll do IFR stuff for the post part because I dont flight sim enough for $300/yr in better ATC

KrunkMcGrunk
Jul 2, 2007

Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

If I wanna fly helicopters in MSFS, what should I look for in a stick? HOTAS + peddles? is getting somebody's used stuff off ebay advisable?

lobsterminator
Oct 16, 2012




KrunkMcGrunk posted:

If I wanna fly helicopters in MSFS, what should I look for in a stick? HOTAS + peddles? is getting somebody's used stuff off ebay advisable?

Helicopters are difficult with a normal joystick. They require tons of precision, so if choppers are your main thing an extension for your stick would help.

You can of course fly them with a normal joystick, but they tend to require a lot of very precise movements. And MSFS helicopters are easier than X-Plane helicopters from my experience.

KrunkMcGrunk
Jul 2, 2007

Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

Is that a 3d printed extension? Where would I buy something like that?

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


lobsterminator posted:

And MSFS helicopters are easier than X-Plane helicopters from my experience.

I don't agree at all, but for me it mostly comes down to X Plane having more predictable trim controls and a mod that implements DCS-style "Fix Trim" buttons. MSFS helicopters are so sensitive, and the trim buttons have dumb as poo poo, extremely fast repeat speeds so you're constantly overshooting tiny trim adjustments.

But god is it prettier than XPlane at helicopter altitudes, satellite imagery or not.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

KrunkMcGrunk posted:

Is that a 3d printed extension? Where would I buy something like that?

Curved extensions can be had from all the usual new manufacturers, and even from some sim furniture/fixture makers.

And while I'd agree somewhat that helos require precise movement, what they really need is three-control coordination: collective, stick, and pedals — any movement of one will require compensation on the others to an extent that even the most fidgety fixed-wing generally don't need. And trimming is its whole other thing. The collective can mostly be handled by any old throttle; the stick can be done with most sticks — extensions help. It's the anti-torque that will need some thought if you don't have pedals at hand, and a twist stick will only get you so far exactly because of how much you need to adjust, and how small the movements need to be.

It's that combination of small adjustment, rather than each one on its own, that make them twitchy piles of formation-flying bolts.

Sebastian Flyte
Jun 27, 2003

Golly
I just need to quote a post from another topic, as it describes my feelings about helicopters exactly:

Icon Of Sin posted:

Helicopters are aerodynamic blasphemy, created by Sikorsky himself and further refined into even more blasphemous creatures (aka the Osprey) by engineers with neither soul nor conscience. They don’t actually fly, the ground repels the foul beasts as best it can until it can trick them into crashing.

KrunkMcGrunk
Jul 2, 2007

Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

So would something like this + pedals be a suitable helicopter setup for a neophyte like me?

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


When it comes to pedals, whatever you choose, do a little googling to see if you can (preferably easily) remove the springs that typically return it to center. Heli pedals don't self-center, and it lets you set the tail rotor where you need it for straight flight or hover without having to either trim or hold forward pressure with one foot for so long you develop a distressing muscle strain in your groin. :mad:

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Also, while most sims will have an option to trim your heli pedals as a convenience, you run into the problem that now they work for straight flight… at this particular speed. Maybe. But you'll soon want to remove some of that pressure to fly straight at some other speed, or to hover, and now you have to input almost full rudder in the other direction only to cancel out the trim you put in. And if you need more than that, you may not have enough input range to play with and have to reset the trim or trim halfway so you can push the pedals a bit more and re-trim in the new position. Odds are that this will also do fun things to your stick trim so suddenly the whole thing is just off-kilter along every conceivable axis. It's going to get even more shaky and twitchy than helos are by default.

Removing springs or having some kind of damper in place that lets you both move freely yet also stick the pedals in place and have them stay there, is an indescribably big help for getting all the bolts to stay in close proximity to each other.

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!
Nothing like running out of left pedal as you pull collective at the end of your land approach. I’ve always flown helos without rudder trim.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Black Square dukes are now out

https://www.justflight.com/product/black-square-piston-duke

Bit pricey but they look fun. I don't know if I want to spend $50 when I already have the Black Square Baron.

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys
has anyone here tried any of the FS Academy courses (VFR, IFR, etc)?

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Sapozhnik posted:

Black Square dukes are now out

https://www.justflight.com/product/black-square-piston-duke

Bit pricey but they look fun. I don't know if I want to spend $50 when I already have the Black Square Baron.

I'll be taking a look at that. The Duke has always seemed the ideal aircraft to simulate, as it's a wonderful aircraft on paper except it's incredibly, incredibly expensive and frustrating to operate.

Friends don't let friends buy Dukes. I don't care how cheap it is (and it will usually be quite cheap.... to buy).

Theris
Oct 9, 2007

Sapozhnik posted:

Bit pricey but they look fun. I don't know if I want to spend $50 when I already have the Black Square Baron.

I have the FSR500 which fills the same capability niche, and the BS Baron that fills the same twin-piston beech niche, and...yeah I'm gonna buy it.

I have just enough self control to not go all the way and also get the turbine one, though. A great performing plane with normal maintenance costs completely violates the Duke Spirit. Why would you want that?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Theris posted:

I have the FSR500 which fills the same capability niche, and the BS Baron that fills the same twin-piston beech niche, and...yeah I'm gonna buy it.

I have just enough self control to not go all the way and also get the turbine one, though. A great performing plane with normal maintenance costs completely violates the Duke Spirit. Why would you want that?

The Beechcraft Duke is pretty much at the top right corner of the hot/crazy matrix.

One in the Bum
Apr 25, 2014

Hair Elf

the milk machine posted:

has anyone here tried any of the FS Academy courses (VFR, IFR, etc)?

I've done vfr, ifr and airliner. They are a good step up from the base msfs tutorials. I found them helpful coming from a very newbish understanding of aviation.

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


One in the Bum posted:

I've done vfr, ifr and airliner. They are a good step up from the base msfs tutorials. I found them helpful coming from a very newbish understanding of aviation.

I agree with this post! I have the same three and thought they were great intermediate tutorials.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Black Square: Piston and Turbine dukes are out. $50 for one or $70 for both
Me: Hmm. Bit steep I think, and I've already got the other Black Square aircraft
Black Square: Oh and it includes the option to use the shittiest GPS in the world that's still IFR legal
Me: ...

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
what the gently caress am i even doing i shouldn't be allowed to spend money

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