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Waltzing Along posted:I read, in a Jaime chapter, that their mother caught them doing "stuff" when they were fairly young. Yup, and then in true ASOIAF fashion she suddenly remembered that she was a woman who'd given birth and died instantly, ensuring that her horrible twins could go back to playing hide the pickle.
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May 5, 2024 17:46
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Waltzing Along posted:I read, in a Jaime chapter, that their mother caught them doing "stuff" when they were fairly young. She and Jaime had sex the morning of her wedding too, before she could ever have known Robert would turn into a drunken lout or hurt her. Imagine just how screwed up someone would need to be to bang their twin brother an hour before marrying and getting crowned queen, the very thing she and her father had been working towards since she was a little girl. She was a 100% absolute nutjob long before Robert, I can see why she turned out the way she did by the time the books started, especially with a father like Tywin and a husband like drunk Robert, but 95% of her problems she makes for herself. She's fascinating, and hilariously hateable and infuriating and that is why she's such a fun character to read about. Ravenson posted:Yup, and then in true ASOIAF fashion she suddenly remembered that she was a woman who'd given birth and died instantly, ensuring that her horrible twins could go back to playing hide the pickle. I like to think that if Joanna Lannister had lived she would have proved to be quite as ruthless as Tywin, but just in a manner acceptable for women. She have never let the twins see each other alone ever again, would have married Cersei off to the furthest away lord in Essos that she could find, and probably pushed Tyrion into a career at the Citadel, where he might actually have been happier, poor soul. And then had at least 3 more children to scotch any rumours about her womb being blighted or cursed to produce dwarfs (you know that's what people would have said about her), and probably had anyone who suggested as much be hung for treason. Any woman who Tywin Lannister loved must have been an absolute terror.
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May 5, 2024 18:01
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Was the “Cersei torturing baby Tyrion” thing a creation of the show, or was that in the books too? I can’t remember.
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May 5, 2024 18:11
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chaosapiant posted:Was the “Cersei torturing baby Tyrion” thing a creation of the show, or was that in the books too? I can’t remember.
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May 5, 2024 18:40
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Drakyn posted:It's definitely in the books, although the specifics of it are a bit fuzzy to me. I believe ?Oberyn? tells Tirion about Cersei doing that in front of him when his family visited the Lannister's place when Tirion was a newborn. She got the baby supervisor out of the room first with some horrific threat or another too. Yea that’s the part in the show I’m remembering; just couldn’t remember if it was also in the book during the same scene. Sounds like it is, thanks!
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May 5, 2024 18:44
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My favorite bit of Cerseiism is that the actress who played her and Bronns actor hate each other. And Bronns actor did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY
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May 5, 2024 21:10
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soviet elsa posted:What little we know of young Cersei she seems more like Sansa than the evil paranoia bitch queen. We know that young Cersei drowned one of the best friends as a teenager because said girl had the hots for her brother.
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May 6, 2024 00:53
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Cersei was a sociopath early in her life, but not so much early in the books. loving Jaimie on her wedding day doesn’t come up till A Feast for Crows. The whole Maggy the Frog prophecy was a particularly late edition to FfC manuscript. It’s not in the June 2004 draft. The bit about Joanna’s maid catching the young twins in flagrante is from A Storm of Swords, and I think that even without that, they have to be sexually involved no later than Jaimie’s appointment to the Kingsguard, at an age of fifteen years. The incest was always part of her character, but not necessarily the rest. It’s possible to read the first three books and think that she only got this bad after becoming queen, and George may have thought that himself.
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May 6, 2024 01:20
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Drakyn posted:It's definitely in the books, although the specifics of it are a bit fuzzy to me. I believe ?Oberyn? tells Tirion about Cersei doing that in front of him when his family visited the Lannister's place when Tirion was a newborn. She got the baby supervisor out of the room first with some horrific threat or another too. That was in Storm of Swords, Tyrion 5
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May 6, 2024 01:32
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Drakyn posted:It's definitely in the books, although the specifics of it are a bit fuzzy to me. I believe ?Oberyn? tells Tirion about Cersei doing that in front of him when his family visited the Lannister's place when Tirion was a newborn. She got the baby supervisor out of the room first with some horrific threat or another too. I think it was Cersei telling someone about it, and if I recall correctly she says she put his little baby dick in her mouth.
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May 6, 2024 04:34
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quote:"Cersei even undid your swaddling clothes to give us a better look," the Dornish prince continued. "You did have one evil eye, and some black fuzz on your scalp. Perhaps your head was larger than most . . . but there was no tail, no beard, neither teeth nor claws, and nothing between your legs but a tiny pink cock. After all the wonderful whispers, Lord Tywin's Doom turned out to be just a hideous red infant with stunted legs. Elia even made the noise that young girls make at the sight of infants, I'm sure you've heard it. The same noise they make over cute kittens and playful puppies. I believe she wanted to nurse you herself, ugly as you were. When I commented that you seemed a poor sort of monster, your sister said, 'He killed my mother,' and twisted your little cock so hard I thought she was like to pull it off. You shrieked, but it was only when your brother Jaime said, 'Leave him be, you're hurting him,' that Cersei let go of you. 'It doesn't matter,' she told us. 'Everyone says he's like to die soon. He shouldn't even have lived this long.'" If I ever re-read the books (fat chance) I'd be interested to see what I think of a Tyrion. Some people have insisted he is as much of a villain as his siblings or father but that was never my impression when I read it one time back in 2014. He could be ruthless but his ruthlessness was in the service of noble ends, unlike everything Tywin or Cersei did.
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May 6, 2024 04:44
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Dude made a little fantasy for himself about how a prostitute loved him and strangled her when that fantasy turned out to be wrong.
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May 6, 2024 12:55
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Alhazred posted:Dude made a little fantasy for himself about how a prostitute loved him and strangled her when that fantasy turned out to be wrong. I thought he killed her because she lied in court and ended up with his dad who was trying to get him killed? The whole Tysha thing is ptsd.
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May 6, 2024 13:02
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TK-42-1 posted:I thought he killed her because she lied in court and ended up with his dad who was trying to get him killed? The whole Tysha thing is ptsd. It’s this, plus in the moment she would’ve called out for Tywin and he needed to quiet her if he was going to escape.
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May 6, 2024 13:09
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Two things: 1. I sympathize with her because we are clearly shown she wants her relationship with Tyrion to be something more. and he had no intention of ever giving her that. This in no way justifies her humiliating him in court and basically getting him sentenced to death. 2. The excuse I've read by fans - that Tywin threatened her, that she only did this to Tyrion and was sleeping with Tywin because she feared for her life - is a nice assumption...but that's all it is. Unlike 1, there's no dialogue attesting to any of this. Based on what's shown, I concluded she wasn't getting what she wanted from Tyrion, so she abandoned him for someone more powerful. Of course people can feel however they want, but I don't think Martin intended any real sympathy for Shae based on her final words. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 13:25 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 13:20
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otoh, maybe GURM decided to write it because he watched some asphyxiation porn while researching for the next Wild Cards book
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May 6, 2024 13:39
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Book Shae is clearly there because she’s getting paid and constantly being given nice jewelry, and is more putting herself in the best position for her. The show changed it to where she was genuinely falling in love with him and willing to risk her life for him, which is why her turning against him in the trial isn’t super out of character since it’s still that or being killed most likely, but it’s more of a surprise.
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May 6, 2024 15:54
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Mad Hamish posted:I think it was Cersei telling someone about it, and if I recall correctly she says she put his little baby dick in her mouth. I think she said she pinched it and made him cry
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May 6, 2024 18:39
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latinotwink1997 posted:I think she said she pinched it and made him cry Yea it was this
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May 6, 2024 19:11
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Someone needs to remind the Swedish poo poo heels that, if they're going to Weekend at Bernie's the GURM, they need to post about the NFL draft.
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May 7, 2024 02:10
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My Lions of Detroit  Life is meaningless and full of pain.
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May 7, 2024 10:51
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soviet elsa posted:I may be being influenced by the show special Cersei/Robert scene, but I am sympathetic to her. Robert was by all accounts a drunken rear end in a top hat lout, even back when he was hot and cool. If she had had a loving relationship, or even married a triumphant Rhaegar? Who knows. She comes off as someone who could just agree to put on airs with a dude like Rhaegar, while they know they aren’t in love. Her insanity comes from being forced into queenship at like 17. And then knowing that her kids are threatened by anyone who challenges the throne. Win or die, etc. What little we know of young Cersei she seems more like Sansa than the evil paranoia bitch queen. Cersei was always hosed up as other said she literally killed her teenage friend because she crushed on Jaime, the abusive marriage with Robert though is what turned her into the bitter monster that she became you kind wonder though, what if the marriage alliance system turned out differently and she ended up marrying Ned or Stannis or something, like someone who isn't gonna put up with her poo poo but isn't going to cheat/abuse her either
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May 7, 2024 15:48
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Also worth keeping in mind that the man she actually wanted was Rhaegar, who Robert brutally killed.
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May 7, 2024 16:32
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 Gaiman is a goon
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May 7, 2024 19:41
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I just got to the Oberyn bit with cersei jacking off baby Tyrion. That's the first her psycopathy as a child is mentioned.
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May 7, 2024 22:27
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Waltzing Along posted:I just got to the Oberyn bit with cersei jacking off baby Tyrion. That's the first her psycopathy as a child is mentioned. I always enjoy the juxtaposition of someone as salacious as Oberyn being weirded out by what an absolute creep that Cersei is.
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May 9, 2024 16:37
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Typo posted:Book 4 has simultaneously some of the best (the Cersei chapters) and worst chapters in the series I hate to give GRRM credit, but that is such baller pirate dialogue I swear he probably co-opted it from history somewhere.
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May 14, 2024 05:54
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Typo posted:you kind wonder though, what if the marriage alliance system turned out differently and she ended up marrying Ned or Stannis or something, like someone who isn't gonna put up with her poo poo but isn't going to cheat/abuse her either I forget, are there any mentions of divorce in the books at all?
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May 14, 2024 06:00
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Waltzing Along posted:I wanna read the version where Jon Snow knows everything. Now there's a fanfic. Jon Snow gets shanked at Castle Black and wakes back up at Winterfell, the morning before Ned is to execute the deserter from the Watch.
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May 14, 2024 06:07
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No one calls it divorce, but they do “set aside” their spouses under some conditions. Everyone agrees that an unconsummated marriage can be set aside by the High Septon or a Council of Faith. This may arguably be possible after many years so long as no children have been produced. Daemon lobbies his brother the king with this argument, but unsuccessfully. Dorian Hightower traded in his wife of twenty years for an Andal princess. That was a longass time ago and arguably he can kick his old wife to the curb first and only after convert to Andal law to marry the princess. The Essoi do whatever. Notably, there’s the Sailor’s Wife, who marries every client. There’s also this weird story about Tywin’s dad in the bad Swedes’ book: quote:Lady Ellyn remained, but her influence dwindled, while that of Lady Jeyne grew. Soon, the rivalry between Ser Tion's widow and Tytos's wife became truly ugly, if the rumors set down by Maester Beldon can be believed. Beldon tells us that in 239 AC, Ellyn Reyne was accused of bedding Tytos Lannister, urging him to set aside his wife and marry her instead. However, young Tytos (then nineteen) found his brother's widow so intimidating that he was unable to perform. Humiliated, he ran back to his wife to confess and beg her forgiveness. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 06:25 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 06:19
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Just got through Red Wedding. One of the few things that I thought was better on TV. It could be that it's a Crapelyn chapter. I dunno. One thing I keep thinking is that the Freys should be much more powerful than they are. They hold the most crucial spot between north and south. E: looking at the map, I take that back. Why do they care so much about crossing at the twins? Waltzing Along fucked around with this message at 06:22 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 06:19
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Waltzing Along posted:One thing I keep thinking is that the Freys should be much more powerful than they are. They hold the most crucial spot between north and south. Disagree. Robb is like the only person in history with a pressing need to cross the Green Fork. Everyone else should be taking the Ruby Ford.
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May 14, 2024 06:23
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Waltzing Along posted:E: looking at the map, I take that back. Why do they care so much about crossing at the twins? they needed a safe crossing, the trident had burst its banks and flooded all over the place at the time they needed to cross. iirc this is something that comes up when Jaime is on the move and during Arya's misadventures
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May 14, 2024 06:25
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Jaimie is loving poo poo up at Riverrun (a crossing of the Red Fork) and points north, and Tywin is operating in the vicinity of the King’s Road and its Ruby Ford. Robb makes a deal because it lets him take Jaime and his army by surprise while Roose (lol) clashes with Tywin. The alternative was running his whole army headlong into a prepared Tywin while Jaime is on the other side of two rivers, pillaging the countryside.
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May 14, 2024 06:35
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Da Roose is loose
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May 14, 2024 11:28
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Waltzing Along posted:Crapelyn I think youre confusing Craperys with Dumbelyn
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May 14, 2024 11:31
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Ichabod Tane posted:I always enjoy the juxtaposition of someone as salacious as Oberyn being weirded out by what an absolute creep that Cersei is. As horny as Oberyn is, he's probably one of the better people overall in the series Speaking of Cersei, is she or Jaime the nominally older twin
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May 15, 2024 01:21
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Cersei came out first. Jaime was holding her ankle on the way out. Or so I remember.
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May 15, 2024 01:34
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I am back up to Jaime arriving at Harrenhal and still cannot get over how much better the story is by way of skipping Dumbnerys chapters. Strong Belwas is about the only thing I will miss about them.
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May 15, 2024 01:39
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Here are the quotes. Eddard XII: quote:"Your brother?" Ned said. "Or your lover?" Tyrion IX, ASoS: quote:"He may indeed crown Tommen, here in King's Landing. Which is not to say that my brother may not crown Myrcella, down in Sunspear. Will your father make war on your niece on behalf of your nephew? Will your sister?" He gave a shrug. "Perhaps I should marry Queen Cersei after all, on the condition that she support her daughter over her son. Do you think she would?"
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May 15, 2024 01:48
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