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i ain't reading all that looks like the guys who caused the term cadt to be coined are doing some cadt poo poo that breaks compatibility, again. is that about the size of it?
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May 6, 2024 02:32
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Gnome's icon theme pretends to be spec compliant with an icon theme spec, which breaks any application that trusts that gnome devs wouldn't lie about spec compliance. The gnome devs are too dumb to understand what the issue is. Absolutely classic Gnome.
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May 6, 2024 07:23
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gnome is loving terrible
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May 6, 2024 07:57
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isn't gnome the one that used to have a fairly deece if unexciting UI and then threw it all away in service of making desktop computers behave like tablets
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May 6, 2024 08:32
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they've somewhat rolled that poo poo back afaik, and instead tripled down on non-customization, so instead of having any options at all it's their way or the high way even down to appearance like on the big proprietary desktop managers gotta cut every possible cost that's not in service of the minimum viable product. this issue probably stems from that. "we don't use those icons anymore, just delete them" lmao
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May 6, 2024 08:50
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BobHoward posted:isn't gnome the one that used to have a fairly deece if unexciting UI and then threw it all away in service of making desktop computers behave like tablets yep. right at that point everyone thought they could be the next iPhone/iPad killer. I think they've more or less given up on that idea though
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May 6, 2024 08:54
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I'm surprised red hat cares about having a desktop ui at all. i imagine like 99% of rhel installs are headless
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May 6, 2024 08:55
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you can't be an enterprise solution without useless poo poo that lets your clueless boss click on things in an unwieldy GUI, op does redhat even ship with a console/ssh capable installer yet? afaik they still use that minimal GTK screen, and if you want to customize anything at all beyond basic poo poo like partitioning and root password, you need to make your own iso with your own anaconda config lmao
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May 6, 2024 09:12
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shitface posted:yep. right at that point everyone thought they could be the next iPhone/iPad killer. I think they've more or less given up on that idea though the only people who ever thought that were the GNOME people themselves, everyone else said that they were being idiots
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May 6, 2024 09:12
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Truga posted:you can't be an enterprise solution without useless poo poo that lets your clueless boss click on things in an unwieldy GUI, op they have that, it's just not gnome because clueless bosses don't want a linux laptop. it's called cockpit and even the showcase pictures feature the typical user connecting from a windows machine
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May 6, 2024 10:46
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eschaton posted:the only people who ever thought that were the GNOME people themselves, everyone else said that they were being idiots epic thissery them as well as shuttleworth with the hilariously named unity e: and mir lmao Progressive JPEG fucked around with this message at 11:37 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 11:34
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iirc early unity versions worked fine because they just used the gnome2 file manager and the desktop environment was somewhat basic but stable and easy to use and then like 2 LTS versions later it was enshittified with amazon ads lmfao
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May 6, 2024 11:41
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Antigravitas posted:Gnome's icon theme pretends to be spec compliant with an icon theme spec, which breaks any application that trusts that gnome devs wouldn't lie about spec compliance. The gnome devs are too dumb to understand what the issue is. Does it break anything but KDE applications? Some of those twenty year old FDO "standards" are perhaps not terribly important anymore. If KDE is the only other user and GNOME doesn't think the spec matters anymore, then some ad hoc solution can probably be glued together.
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May 6, 2024 12:51
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literally every gtk and qt app uses the same icon theme spec, because that's how themes work in the first place
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May 6, 2024 13:00
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NihilCredo posted:they have that, it's just not gnome because clueless bosses don't want a linux laptop. it's called cockpit and even the showcase pictures feature the typical user connecting from a windows machine Cockpit has some neat features, but some really weird blind spots. Like you can create remote storage mounts from it, but ONLY for NFS, and not CIFS. For the latter you still need to manually go and create it in fstab. I do like how you can just set up one node to be connectable via a reverse proxy, and then can manage the other nodes (still in the webui) via ssh keys they share with each other. It is useful for checking to see which podman containers are up and if you need to bring one down for some reason. If I'm adding new containers or pods though, I'd do it through quadlet, not the webui. I set up my CoreOS vms with it, and basically never use it though.
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May 6, 2024 13:18
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Athas posted:Does it break anything but KDE applications? Some of those twenty year old FDO "standards" are perhaps not terribly important anymore. If KDE is the only other user and GNOME doesn't think the spec matters anymore, then some ad hoc solution can probably be glued together. it is true though that if it is not prepared to provide icons under the scheme then it probably shouldn't be registered under the scheme. but ultimately the issue is a real dumb read as the gnome devs switch between denying the issue and dismissing the standard seemingly every other post. if i was the kde dev and paid to get something done i would on the first "we're not going to provide icons according to that spec" knocked out a line of code of the form if(icon_theme=="adwaita") { log("adwaita has filled in the global icon-set setting with a refusal to actually provide icons (see issue xyz), falling back to default"); return "ye olde kde icons"; } like, its obviously ugly and could at any moment turn into cruft, but it was clear from the first moment that actually consistent icons was not among the possible outcomes.
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May 6, 2024 14:26
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like, really the most gnome thing about this is that it is someone trying to make applications available to gnome users in as transparent a way possible (*presumably* if you have adwaita set as icon set you're on gnome trying to use e.g. kate), but they're very much acting like they're out doing favors for kde. and that is very typical modern gnome, basic hostility to the idea that someones desktop experience would extend beyond the ever shrinking set of core applications (best spend all your day looking at clocks and using a calculator).
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May 6, 2024 15:19
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:it is true though that if it is not prepared to provide icons under the scheme then it probably shouldn't be registered under the scheme. but ultimately the issue is a real dumb read as the gnome devs switch between denying the issue and dismissing the standard seemingly every other post. Which gets logged to syslog every time an icon would appear on screen. And get lost in the 100 other similar messages that KDE likes to log. Very on Brand.
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May 6, 2024 15:54
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Yeah the basic TLDR: KDE-dev: Hey, your default theme, Adwaita, claims to be FDO compliant, but when our applications ask for the icon theme, it is broken. Gnome-dev: Yeah, Adwaita isn't FDO compliant. KDE-dev: Then can you make Adwaita not advertise that it's FDO compliant? KDE-dev: You removed some metadata, but it wasn't enough, and Adwaita still advertises itself as FDO compliant. Gnome-dev: No, it doesn't. KDE-dev: ???? Here is a specific line saying Adwaita is advertising itself as FDO compliant. Gnome-dev: That's your misinterpretation. KDE-dev: Here is a simple proof that what I said is accurate. Gnome-dev: Look, you are asking us to shop ancient assets just for KDE! This is unreasonable! KDE-dev: No, we ask you to stop claiming Adwaita is FDO compliant! * More bickering, Gnome-dev * closes ticket. * Another Gnome dev reopens the ticket * Gnome-dev: How about some ancient theme that distros would have to ship? KDE-dev: Again, all we are asking is not to mark Adwaita as FDO compliant. Gnome-dev: What did you expect? That some unpaid army of gnomes comes out of the woodwork to draw a fresh and modern set of full-color items for you? There has to be some realism here How the gently caress is it so goddamn difficult to just change Adwaita to not advertise itself as FDO compliant???????????????????????
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May 6, 2024 17:10
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reminds me of that time not too long ago when somebody politely asked for fractional dpi rendering and some gnome dev left a pissy note suggesting that they implement it themselves, then the gnome devs quietly added it over the course of the next release or two
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May 6, 2024 17:40
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Sapozhnik posted:reminds me of that time not too long ago when somebody politely asked for fractional dpi rendering and some gnome dev left a pissy note suggesting that they implement it themselves, then the gnome devs quietly added it over the course of the next release or two i'm cleaning my room because i want to, not because you told me to!
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May 6, 2024 17:45
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though tbh among things apple did that i hoped would spread and stick (but instead didn't stick even at apple) was to go "ok, we can do higher resolutions, what do we do? let's go strictly for the next integer up, same dimensions" the "eh, everything will be vectors" movement was sufficiently wrong that they are still wrong in this fractional hellscape.
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May 6, 2024 17:49
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:though tbh among things apple did that i hoped would spread and stick (but instead didn't stick even at apple) was to go "ok, we can do higher resolutions, what do we do? let's go strictly for the next integer up, same dimensions" everything could be vectors at this point. we have the technology almost all existing desktop environments use bitmaps though, so "lol lmao do it yourself" - some gnome dev, probably
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May 6, 2024 17:56
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Truga posted:you can't be an enterprise solution without useless poo poo that lets your clueless boss click on things in an unwieldy GUI, op you can do that from a usb drive iirc but it's been a while since i had to janitor that stuff
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May 6, 2024 17:57
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NihilCredo posted:they have that, it's just not gnome because clueless bosses don't want a linux laptop. it's called cockpit and even the showcase pictures feature the typical user connecting from a windows machine tbh this looks kinda nice and i might give it a try i wonder if you can use it as an alternative to LuCI e: hey it's even on swupd lol https://cockpit-project.org/running.html#clearlinux seems v. easy Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 18:37 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 17:57
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Beeftweeter posted:tbh this looks kinda nice and i might give it a try yeah same, I like this a lot
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May 6, 2024 17:59
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:though tbh among things apple did that i hoped would spread and stick (but instead didn't stick even at apple) was to go "ok, we can do higher resolutions, what do we do? let's go strictly for the next integer up, same dimensions" doesn't Apple ask for integer scaling with assets and then does fractional scaling with the GPU so everything looks ~okay? I'm still stuck in "100% desktop scaling, 150% browser zoom and electron zoom" land myself 
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May 6, 2024 18:04
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BobHoward posted:isn't gnome the one that used to have a fairly deece if unexciting UI and then threw it all away in service of making desktop computers behave like tablets yes, and this happened when gnome 3 launched in 2011, so it has been bad longer than it had previously existed (if you still want gnome 2, it is called MATE now)
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May 6, 2024 18:09
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I like the current gnome.
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May 6, 2024 18:12
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Nitrousoxide posted:I like the current gnome. Try Plasma 6 OP. It's written by competent people.
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May 6, 2024 18:13
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corona familiar posted:doesn't Apple ask for integer scaling with assets and then does fractional scaling with the GPU so everything looks ~okay? apple asks for integer scaling (2x, 3x, etc.) for assets but yes eventually does fractional scaling with quartz extreme (if that's what it's even called anymore) this is despite quartz extreme natively supporting vector graphics since like 2002
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May 6, 2024 18:19
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spankmeister posted:you can do that from a usb drive iirc but it's been a while since i had to janitor that stuff yeah, thankfully the only thing i run on bare metal these days is the proxmox installer when a new server pops up lol
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May 6, 2024 18:22
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FlapYoJacks posted:Try Plasma 6 OP. It's written by competent people. I've tried both modern Plasma and Gnome. I prefer Gnome.
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May 6, 2024 18:34
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Nitrousoxide posted:I've tried both modern Plasma and Gnome. I prefer Gnome. Anime avatar checks out.
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May 6, 2024 18:36
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:yeah same, I like this a lot since most of the instructions are just "install the package and enable a sysctl variable" (e.g. even for clear the instructions are dead simple, https://cockpit-project.org/running.html#clearlinux) i'd guess you can no idea if it would conflict with LuCI though but it'd be nice to use alongside i guess. anyone got an openwrt install they don't care about? please give it a try tia
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May 6, 2024 18:38
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the dpi problem has a few aspects to it. one is that television is the spawn of satan and its standards continue to plague the decent respectable world of computing. there's hdmi ("it's just like displayport but it has patents on it!") and there's also the godawful claustrophobic 1920x1080 logical pixel standard, which then got doubled in both dimensions to give us 4K. on a reasonable computer screen (i.e. 27", the objectively correct desktop computer screen diagonal) this gives user interface components that are way too big or way too small. the objectively correct logical pixel standard for computer monitors is 2560x1440. an ideal high-resolution computer display would simply 2x2 this standard and call it a day. unfortunately this does not exist as a mass market product, so for all practical purposes you cannot buy a display with a 5120x2880 physical pixel grid. i've been waiting for this to come to market for almost 10 years and it still does not exist. it's not as simple as doing "just vectors", graphic designers will tell you that it is more complicated than that (i am not a graphic designer btw just to be clear). artists produce subtly different icons for each standard set of pixel dimensions that a logical "icon" can be rendered in. they will distort and emphasize different aspects of the icon image depending on the size at which the icon is being displayed. you can't "just" have a universal svg for this purpose, because if it was that simple then we would already be doing it; every linux gui toolkit has supported svg icons for over a decade now. there are two platforms that are not shackled by the tyranny of 96dpi: web, and mobile. on web the range of possible dpis is too great to depend on any particular pixel grid, which is why websites these days don't have many/any bitmapped user interface components and don't use icons much either, even though that was very much the fashion on turn-of-the-century websites. compare gamespot circa 2005 with gamespot today, but on a desktop because your mobile phone is going to have a hard time with it. on mobile, modern devices have a stupidly high density like 300 dpi or 250dpi or whatever, and at that level of oversampling it isn't too hard to size things a little bit bigger or a little bit smaller in order to get an integer multiple of 96 dpi. but a 4k screen's ~150 dpi absolutely can not. and it doesn't even matter because mobile apps all look like websites anyway, and so does electron hellworld for that matter. Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 19:14
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yeah, the display industry needs to just give me a 10k:1 contrast ratio 16k 42" screen already i'll pay about $500 for that e: like, seriously how is it possible that we have like 4k 5" phones now starting to show up, but the standard on 27" is still 4k, and that's if you feel spicy
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May 6, 2024 19:18
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Sapozhnik posted:the objectively correct logical pixel standard for computer monitors is 2560x1440 what about 2560x1600? 
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May 6, 2024 19:25
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Truga posted:yeah, the display industry needs to just give me a 10k:1 contrast ratio 16k 42" screen already view distance is much closer on the phone, there's no point for 8k monitors/tvs because our eyes arent that good. also we dont have an 8k physical media format worth a poo poo, and streaming services don't want to quadruple their egress bandwidth, they're super stingy with that poo poo. corona familiar posted:what about 2560x1600? my Gamer Laptop is this res and it's good.
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May 6, 2024 19:31
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Beeftweeter posted:since most of the instructions are just "install the package and enable a sysctl variable" (e.g. even for clear the instructions are dead simple, https://cockpit-project.org/running.html#clearlinux) i'd guess you can oh, based on the page I was assuming this was just a lightweight web gui for a headless fedora server 
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May 6, 2024 19:32
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