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P4 is funny because it has some of the most obvious flaws on paper - character gimmicks and jokes that haven't aged well, a somewhat corny theme of 'the truth', and obvious plot points that make you roll your eyes after you have to hear "you're not me!' after the third time. And yet it absolutely nails the setting in a way the other games just don't. Yeah Gekkoukan High and Tokyo have their own kinda homey feels, but Inaba and the Investigation Team absolutely sticks the landing and immerses the player in a way that kinda lets you just roll with all the other flaws (except Teddie).
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May 6, 2024 19:57
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ApplesandOranges posted:P4 is funny because it has some of the most obvious flaws on paper - character gimmicks and jokes that haven't aged well, a somewhat corny theme of 'the truth', and obvious plot points that make you roll your eyes after you have to hear "you're not me!' after the third time. It helps that the P4 team is pretty grounded, especially for a JRPG. Having all your characters be, "Yeah, I'm just kind of a highschool student who's big into martial arts/sewing while looking tough/working at my family's inn" is refreshing. It's relatable - I was an overly-earnest dork in highschool too!
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May 7, 2024 05:07
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Majorian posted:It helps that the P4 team is pretty grounded, especially for a JRPG. Having all your characters be, "Yeah, I'm just kind of a highschool student who's big into martial arts/sewing while looking tough/working at my family's inn" is refreshing. It's relatable - I was an overly-earnest dork in highschool too! I can't really say the P4 team is more grounded than the P3 or 4 casts. (Or the 1-2 casts even.) Yeah, you have regular teenagers, but you also have a sentient stuffed bear suit, a super-famous idol and a genius detective prince. In comparison P3's cast is largely normal people except Aigis and Koromaru. (And Koromaru is just like a good dog who happens to have a Persona, rather than anything special) and P5's cast are all regular people except Morgana. Well, okay, Mitsuru and Haru are Rich As Fuuuuuuck so maybe they can count as abnormal too.
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May 7, 2024 06:15
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ImpAtom posted:I can't really say the P4 team is more grounded than the P3 or 4 casts. (Or the 1-2 casts even.) Mitsuru fits into the whole "I've been a soldier in this secret resistance against THE DARKNESS that threatens to consume us all since childhood but also I'm a highschooler" trope. I like a lot about her character but she's really far from grounded imo. She reminds me of a lot of Final Fantasy heroes, which isn't a bad thing in and of itself. It just takes me a little bit out of this particular story. Yukari has a similar thing going but to a far lesser extent, which is part of why I find her a lot more believable. e: To clarify, when I say "grounded," I'm speaking more in terms of personality than in backstory. Rise's a famous idol, but given how rapidly the Japanese idol industry chews up and spits out young people, the idea of a former idol going back to her hometown to try to reinvent herself doesn't strike me as unheard of. There are plenty of American former child actors who are now dentists or whatever. Many such cases! Naoto, I'll grant you, is one of the less-grounded human members of the team, but she's also the one we see the least of. Even so, she behaves pretty believably like a highschool student in the context of the game, just a highly precocious (if lonely) one. e2: SungWon Cho makes my point about Mitsuru more eloquently than I could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGxCMyLm6js Majorian fucked around with this message at 06:33 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 06:18
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Only Persona 5 spinoff I want is an Arena game that does a crossover with 3/4 in real time like P4A instead of some weird metaverse thing where its all of them at the same age of their respective games. I wanna see Chie being a low level beat cop telling makoto it sucks but shes trying to keep her head high. I wanna see Mitsuru having known Haru by reputation of being mega rich daughters and being loving shocked they handle shadows too. I wanna see yusuke being a Junes GM assigned to tokyo and being cursed at for trying to drive Sojiro and the nearby markets out of business
Ohtsam fucked around with this message at 06:38 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 06:35
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To be fair, Persona 4's cast is all about media stereotypes and tropes, usually with a "twist".
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May 7, 2024 06:41
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Ohtsam posted:I wanna see yusuke being a Junes GM assigned to tokyo and being cursed at for trying to drive Sojiro and the nearby markets out of business I hope you meant Yosuke!  Besides that it sounds like an awesome crossover game.
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May 7, 2024 06:51
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Akihiko is also 90% made up of beef bowls and protein at this point so I don’t think he’s normal either. Honestly I think Yukari and Junpei are the only normal ones. I also don’t know about P5’s cast being normal people when you have the One 1/4 American Girl with Blonde Hair, the Student Council President, a Shack Artist, and Genius Hacker Prodigy. Ryuji is the most normal person there and he still gets ‘oh yeah blonde to make him stand out’. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 06:59 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 06:55
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No one in these dang ol' games are normal and that's fine by me
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May 7, 2024 07:02
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A Bystander posted:No one in these dang ol' games are normal and that's fine by me Pffft, you can't summon a magical monster out of your Jungian unconscious? Sounds like a skill issue to me. \/\/\/now that's what I call relatable!\/\/\/ Majorian fucked around with this message at 08:26 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 07:04
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Persona 1's cast Constantly-Hospitalized Daughter of a Single Parent Household Reformed Delinquent Older Sister-type Kogal Returning-from-Living-Abroad Girl Mega-Rich Scion That Needs a Slap Nouveau-Riche Kid but Acts Out Against His Parents About It with a Dumb Hat Pooped His Pants And Now It's Everyone Else's Problem Angry Bastard Child Who Never Wears a Shirt
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May 7, 2024 08:10
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Majorian posted:the whole "I've been a soldier in this secret resistance against THE DARKNESS that threatens to consume us all since childhood but also I'm a highschooler" trope. ...is this actually a trope? Unless you generalize it to the level of "high schooler who fights bad guys" (in which case pretty much all Persona party members count), I can't think of anything specific to Mitsuru. If anything, Mitsuru is kind of less trope-y than many other P3/P4/P5 party members. I don't think "daughter of president of large ethically dubious corporation raised to fight things" is a common enough background to really count as a trope, since I'm struggling to think of many similar situations.
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May 7, 2024 08:36
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Ytlaya posted:...is this actually a trope? Unless you generalize it to the level of "high schooler who fights bad guys" (in which case pretty much all Persona party members count), I can't think of anything specific to Mitsuru. I think the thing that sticks out at me is how young Mitsuru is supposed to be while simultaneously having accomplished so much, or having fought this war for so long already. You see it a lot in Final Fantasy games. An example that comes immediately to my mind is Celes in FFVI: somehow a battle-hardened general/part-time opera star by...18?  Mitsuru has a similar thing going: magical child soldier whose powers were exploited for what turns out to be nefarious purposes; somehow manages to be school valedictorian and student council president; champion fencer, most popular girl in school, all by the age of 17.None of that is a bad thing, either for Celes or for Mitsuru. I'm just saying, neither character is what I'd describe as particularly grounded. I find myself internally paraphrasing that ProZD video I posted: "this is not how 18-year-olds talk!" Majorian fucked around with this message at 09:08 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 09:05
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Mitsuru was involved with the Shadow research her entire life. I don't recall if it's established when she started fighting shadows, but she'd been training for it since she was like three years old. Aki and Shinji (and eventually Ken) were only recruited when they were in middle school, and the rest of the cast and the entirety of the P4 and 5 crews* were in high school before awakening to any supernatural poo poo. *I guess in P5 it's never quite established when Akechi discovered his powers, but it is established that he was already in high school by the time he got involved with Shido and the Conspiracy.
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May 7, 2024 09:07
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Well in the flashback in the Answer, Mitsuru awakens to her Persona during an early exploration of Tartarus. This means that it probably happens after the big incident that causes Nyx's dispersion, so it would have been less than 10 years ago. My guess is that means it would probably be around 8-9 years before P3, which puts her at around 9-10 years old. So actually not that far behind Ken's age when he awoke to his.
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May 7, 2024 11:51
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Mitsuru is such a Hyper-Rich Kid that she doesn't know what a hamburger is. I don't consider that "grounded" in any way, shape, or form. At least Haru almost certainly has eaten a hamburger before, considering get father was President, CEO, and Chief Slave-Driver of HAMBURGERS IN SPACE! or whatever. Also, IIRC Haru is nouveau-riche, her grandfather was dirt poor and all her family's money was made by her father. Mitsuru's grandfather was using his family's money to be a weird insane death cultist, and IIRC her father mentions on the island trip that the Kirijo family has ties to the Nanjo family from P1, so their money is at least that old. Commander Keene fucked around with this message at 12:12 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 12:08
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I think she's also never eaten ramen either, though people remember her more for hamburgers.
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May 7, 2024 13:04
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Persona Q3 for Nintendo Switch 2, with FemMC for not just 3, but 4 and 5 also..
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May 7, 2024 13:15
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ApplesandOranges posted:I think she's also never eaten ramen either, though people remember her more for hamburgers. Ironically it's probably the other way around for Japanese people where ramen is a staple food and hamburgers are a Johnny-come-lately introduction by foreigners and it's weirder to them that nobody's ever made Mitsuru a proper bowl of ramen than that she's never been to a burger joint.
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May 7, 2024 13:19
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Funnily enough, now I'm boggled that you've never eaten actual ramen. That stuff is everywhere where I live.
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May 7, 2024 13:24
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 I'm not much of a soup person, so I've never really been interested in trying it.
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May 7, 2024 14:21
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Commander Keene posted:
As a supremely picky eater who doesn't much like soup either, I have to recommend Pho. I went to Washington and Oregon for a vacation in March and tried it for the first time. It was delicious. It's just broth and some good meat and noodles + optional additions so it was perfect for me. Anyway, this line of talk just reminds me of when I first played P3 and 4. I've never played games just "set in normal Japan" for the most part. I remember thinking, though, that how the Dojimas eat and live was more of what I vaguely imagined as Japanese living. The dorms in P3 was basically like living here, near as I can recall.
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May 7, 2024 14:35
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The P3 cast isn't normal, they're all orphans (or partial orphans depending on how you define the term).
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May 7, 2024 16:28
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Fuuka and Junpei aren't orphans, their parents just suck. Mitsuri and Yukari also have a parent each. And that's pretty much universal for high school persona characters, everyone's parents are either absent, dead, or poo poo. Off the top of my head, Ryuji and Kanji have one good parent and one dead(beat) one. Dunno how to count Futaba, who was orphaned and then adopted by an A+ dad. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 17:04
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Yu’s parents are absent but I also get the feeling that they suck. Ren’s parents definitely suck, that’s how you know he’s gonna hightail it back to Tokyo once he graduates.
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May 7, 2024 17:15
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Yu's parents are only absent for a year due to work purposes, I think. Dojima never really says anything bad about them. Ann's parents also travel for work. P4's parent status is weird. Kanji has a mom and a deadbeat dad, but everyone else seems to have both set of parents. Though Rise and Naoto live with a grandparent, so it's possible their parents just aren't around.
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May 7, 2024 17:45
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Yes, Yu is only living with Dojima because his parents didn't want to drag him to a completely new area just to drag him back a year later. Dojima, his uncle, was willing to take care of him for the year, and he only lives one train ride away from Yu's actual house. Also Kanji's dad is dead. That's why he was so worried and scared when he heard hus mom was at the hospital.
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May 7, 2024 17:55
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ApplesandOranges posted:Yu's parents are only absent for a year due to work purposes, I think. Dojima never really says anything bad about them. A year overseas seems like a really long time to me though; I'd expect parents to take their kid(s) with them, have it be a growing experience. I dunno, though, maybe what Yu's family does is more of a common thing in Japanese culture than I realize. (or even more common in lots of places around the world and I'm just ignorant) quote:P4's parent status is weird. Kanji has a mom and a deadbeat dad, but everyone else seems to have both set of parents. Though Rise and Naoto live with a grandparent, so it's possible their parents just aren't around. Naoto's parents died in a car crash iirc.
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May 7, 2024 17:59
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Dojima never says much about Yu’s parents but it also seems like he hasn’t seen Yu since he was a toddler, so he essentially hasn’t seen his big sister’s kid in like 10-12 years
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May 7, 2024 18:34
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Majorian posted:Yu’s parents are absent but I also get the feeling that they suck. Ren’s parents definitely suck, that’s how you know he’s gonna hightail it back to Tokyo once he graduates.  For me it's hard to imagine a future for Ren that doesn't involve taking over Leblanc one day
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May 7, 2024 18:44
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considering ren went from like, last place in the class to leading the entire school in his tests it seems like maybe he should just stay in tokyo
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May 7, 2024 18:45
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Weird Pumpkin posted:considering ren went from like, last place in the class to leading the entire school in his tests it seems like maybe he should just stay in tokyo It's honestly kind of insane when you consider how much goddamn energy those kids must have, even counting magic bullshit. School all day, a social life, clubs, homework and studying enough to massively boost your academics and going to a horriifying hellscape filled with murder monsters.
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May 7, 2024 18:48
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I like to imagine he only goes back to his hometown briefly to beat the poo poo out of everyone who sent him up the river.ImpAtom posted:It's honestly kind of insane when you consider how much goddamn energy those kids must have, even counting magic bullshit. School all day, a social life, clubs, homework and studying enough to massively boost your academics and going to a horriifying hellscape filled with murder monsters. No wonder Morgana keeps screaming at you to go to bed. "Joker, I'm literally three weeks old, I don't know anything about this world, but I KNOW you're going to pull a Makoto Yuki if you don't get some sleep!" Majorian fucked around with this message at 18:50 on May 7, 2024 |
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May 7, 2024 18:48
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Commander Keene posted:Ironically it's probably the other way around for Japanese people where ramen is a staple food and hamburgers are a Johnny-come-lately introduction by foreigners and it's weirder to them that nobody's ever made Mitsuru a proper bowl of ramen than that she's never been to a burger joint. Ramen and hamburgers are equally common "fast food" in modern Japan. The point with Mitsuru is that both are scene as too cheap and low class for her family, because I guess she eats only caviar or something. It's a pretty silly stereotype.
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May 7, 2024 19:12
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ImpAtom posted:It's honestly kind of insane when you consider how much goddamn energy those kids must have, even counting magic bullshit. School all day, a social life, clubs, homework and studying enough to massively boost your academics and going to a horriifying hellscape filled with murder monsters. I was thinking about this while playing P3R lol, these kids are nuts. I doubt I'd even be able to manage Junpei's level of "doing just well enough not to get expelled" while doing all the other poo poo SEES does.
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May 7, 2024 19:13
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MechaX posted:Dojima never says much about Yu’s parents but it also seems like he hasn’t seen Yu since he was a toddler, so he essentially hasn’t seen his big sister’s kid in like 10-12 years When I was in high school, I hadn't seen relatives on my mom's side of the family in years. The visits were far enough between that my aunts kept thinking I was my second oldest brother, because of how much I had grown. Only reason I had regular contact with my dad's side is that they all lived in the same city as us. Not constantly seeing your extended family doesn't mean that your parents are bad or that you have problems at home. Yu is the protagonist with the best home life out of all of them, minus the murder plot.
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May 7, 2024 19:18
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It’s deliberately left vague with p4 because you’re supposed to put your own spin on it / it isn’t relevant to Yu. He’s here for the year then he’s not. How he feels about these circumstances is left to the player.
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May 7, 2024 19:20
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Persona games gotta end with a big farewell segments, for the player as much as the character. The only reason Joker goes back home at all is so we get to say goodbye to everyone. Obviously he's going to move right back to Tokyo as soon as he's a legal adult; there is zero reason he wouldn't. also unrelated, but Morgana gets an undeserved bad rap. He never actually forces Joker to go to bed, on the contrary, Joker is incapable of leaving the house if he's alone. He can go to school, and somewhere else if he's invited by someone to keep him company, but whenever Morgana isn't around, he spends all of his free time moping in his room. He gets too depressed to even play video games because he saw a pawprint in the dust and remembered that he's alone. The sole exception is (Royal) when all the Phantom Thieves get brainwashed, and he is able to go outside and have a single conversation, after which he immediately has to go home and into bed. They're pretty exhausting conversations, granted, but that is the capacity he has to act on his own. The cat is a critically important emotional support animal and we should be grateful he grants Joker the ability to go outside at all. E: Yu gets a farewell segment because Inaba loving blows and no one sane would ever go there if they had the ability to be anywhere else.
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May 7, 2024 19:21
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Persona games gotta end with a big farewell segments, for the player as much as the character. The only reason Joker goes back home at all is so we get to say goodbye to everyone. Obviously he's going to move right back to Tokyo as soon as he's a legal adult; there is zero reason he wouldn't. Huh, I didn't realize how much I related to Joker until now. I would p depressed if I couldn't take my magical talking cat with me everywhere too.
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May 7, 2024 19:23
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Persona games gotta end with a big farewell segments, for the player as much as the character. The only reason Joker goes back home at all is so we get to say goodbye to everyone. Obviously he's going to move right back to Tokyo as soon as he's a legal adult; there is zero reason he wouldn't. Yeah, it's a classic hero's journey thing, and the Fool's journey has a lot of parallels to that structure. Returning home is the classic way it's gotta end. But yeah it's also abundantly clear that Tokyo had become Joker's new home by that point and he'll definitely be back after high school, no question. Hell we know from Strikers that Sojiro basically kept the attic exactly how Ren left it and still considers it Ren's room.
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May 7, 2024 19:26
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