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Rigged Death Trap posted:Life may be short this is true about many much better manga as well
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May 7, 2024 20:34
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The only thing that really ever tweaked me about Black Clover is that in the big, arc-finishing fights, there are seemingly 25 climaxes that go on forever. When you hit the end of the Elf arc, you'll hit a stretch where you see Asta/Yuno do some super final looking attack with a spread like 10 loving times in the row for the end-chapter stinger before the badguy is finally, at least, defeated. This sort of thing starts happening a lot after.
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May 7, 2024 21:01
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it's a pity, because i like a lot of the cast but it's just, like, not very good at the shounen battle part of being a shounen battle manga.
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May 7, 2024 21:05
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(Black Clover) I don’t know what I was expecting the twist to be with the deal of Charmy eating an entire house’s worth of food every day, but I can’t say I expected lol yeah she’s part dwarf, also she’s gonna awaken her human blood, temporarily not be tiny and also be super OP.
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May 8, 2024 02:30
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Charmy rules.
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May 8, 2024 03:31
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Charmy rules. Hell yeah she does.
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May 8, 2024 06:07
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I will never forgive Black Clover for bungling the concept of the non magic sword wielder in the world full of sorcery. Eventually Mashle came along and did a decent job with the concept but it was a bit too gag oriented. I wanted Black Clover to use that concept in a more by the book shonen.
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May 8, 2024 06:34
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I don't know if it's even possible to become more by the book shonen than Black Clover???
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May 8, 2024 09:08
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Irisize posted:I don't know if it's even possible to become more by the book shonen than Black Clover??? Yes, but it abandoned the somewhat unique antimagic/nonmagic premise for Asta nearly immediately and became generic. I remember how excited I was by chapter 1.
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May 8, 2024 09:55
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Apocron posted:I will never forgive Black Clover for bungling the concept of the non magic sword wielder in the world full of sorcery. Eventually Mashle came along and did a decent job with the concept but it was a bit too gag oriented. I wanted Black Clover to use that concept in a more by the book shonen. Mashle didn't really do anything with it, I felt. Instead of being "strong dude literally flexes on harry potter made up bullshit magic", they give every other character a pretty tightly defined power set of explosion magic guy, sword magic guy, time magic guy etc. This lets the fights be pretty typical modern shonen in format, but it undermines the core gag since the main character really isn't any more one dimensional than everyone else is. He could have been a magic user specializing in Muscle Strengthening Magic and 95% of it would play out the same.
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May 8, 2024 13:11
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Apocron posted:Yes, but it abandoned the somewhat unique antimagic/nonmagic premise for Asta nearly immediately and became generic. I remember how excited I was by chapter 1. I'm not sure what you mean. Most of the fights in the series are him brute forcing or cutting through magic with his antimagic sword, what else could he do?
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May 8, 2024 13:18
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P-Mack posted:Mashle didn't really do anything with it, I felt. Instead of being "strong dude literally flexes on harry potter made up bullshit magic", they give every other character a pretty tightly defined power set of explosion magic guy, sword magic guy, time magic guy etc. This lets the fights be pretty typical modern shonen in format, but it undermines the core gag since the main character really isn't any more one dimensional than everyone else is. He could have been a magic user specializing in Muscle Strengthening Magic and 95% of it would play out the same. Considering the whole core conceit of Mashle is "prejudice/eugenics is bad" which is focused on Mashle not actually having magical powers so he's supposed to be executed, and in they end they change these ideas and systems in the world, I'm going to have to hard disagree with that assertion. Especially because a lot of the comedy comes from him doing something that seems magical but is actually just him being insanely strong
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May 8, 2024 13:20
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Maybe a hot take, but the parts of Mashle that weren’t just “Mash brute forces his way through magic” (which, admittedly, was pretty funny) were the most generic, rote shonen stuff ever, which would be fine if that was the joke, or Mash wasn’t divorced from a good, long chunk of that stuff to make it funny by being his weirdo deadpan meathead self, but alas. The irony of being a fan of Black Clover now isn’t lost on me, no.
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May 8, 2024 13:27
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Both series have pretty similar tones TBH. They both even have a Comically Obsessed With His Sister guy.
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May 8, 2024 13:38
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mash was a really funny character stuck in a lovely fighting manga that otherwise wasn't funny at all.
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May 8, 2024 13:44
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Mashle's strength was it's one joke and it was funny throughout. Like I think the last big fight was just right for it. Black Clover has very fun characters (didn't realize I missed those lovable dumbasses until I saw the new chapter illustration) but the fights only sometimes match the characters which makes it weaker IMO. Sometimes you can only do one or two things really well and that's okay.
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May 8, 2024 15:25
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mashle was as boring and as rote of a shonen as hell and I didn’t find it memorable but its popularity did eventually lead to me learning about bling-bang-bang-born so some good came out of it
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May 8, 2024 15:39
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Black Clover timeskip: not sure I like Asta’s new outfit. Really hope he goes back to the old fit after this arc, the sleeves/no shirt thing just looks wrong, but him going Super Swole might not help. Also in more spoilery stuff: it’s lowkey kind of constantly funny that Nero can just, you know, not be a bird but chooses to perch on Asta’s head with the same dead eyed expression a lot of the time. Also I think Asta is less dumb than he thinks he is, I definitely expected him to have to be told that girl who showed up was Nero and not figure it out himself, even with ki. Really he just has a lot more common sense/pragmatism than a lot of meathead protags, boy’s just kinda of a himbo.
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May 8, 2024 17:01
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Last Celebration posted:Really he just has a lot more common sense/pragmatism than a lot of meathead protags, boy’s just kinda of a himbo. That reminds me: one of my least favorite shonen tropes is main characters who are so reckless/honorable/prideful that they need an occasional deus ex machina to save them from situations they could have avoided with no real negative consequences by backing down or running away. Law of Ueki really bothered me in this regard, but it comes up even in "non-battle battle manga" like Food Wars. Food Wars is especially bad about this, actually; the main character is basically a compulsive gambler who never faces consequences for it.
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May 8, 2024 17:25
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Last Celebration posted:Black Clover timeskip: not sure I like Asta’s new outfit. Really hope he goes back to the old fit after this arc, the sleeves/no shirt thing just looks wrong, but him going Super Swole might not help. I remember commenting at the time that it looks weird because Asta has clearly put on muscle but hasn't changed his size or proportions at all, so logically the muscle must have grown inward and replaced some of his bones and organs.
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May 8, 2024 17:39
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Asta's head looks distinctly pasted on in a bunch of panels when he first changes his look.
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May 8, 2024 17:42
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Irisize posted:I don't know if it's even possible to become more by the book shonen than Black Clover??? I remember Flame of Recca feeling like "the most stereotypical shounen imaginable" to me when I read it years ago.
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May 8, 2024 20:01
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Flame of Recca has better art, better characters and better action. Flame of Recca is like generic shonen, but it's executed far better than Black Clover.
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May 8, 2024 20:13
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i think you have an overly generous memory of flame of recca.
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May 8, 2024 21:20
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I discussed Flame of Recca in this thread before, but one thing I just realized about it is that it has no actual hook. The main character has fire powers (one of the most generic main character powers, though it’s at least better than generic super strength or energy blasts of no particular element, and his power does eventually turn out to have a couple odd quirks). He’s a ninja (for what turn out to be convoluted reasons), but this doesn’t actually inform his fighting style very much. The vampire-like woman who seems like a throwaway early villain turning out to be the main character’s mother and not actually evil was a surprising twist, but the twist comes too late to count as a hook. Unless there’s something I’m forgetting?
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May 8, 2024 21:21
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I remember more of BC than FoR despite reading FoR far more recently, but admittedly most of that is the goofy side characters like Charmy.
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May 8, 2024 21:26
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Gash Bell is what I think of when I think of a generic shounen that's well executed. Besides the combat remaining tactical and there being a good balance between individual fights and team battles. I think the real strength of the story is it's character writing, particularly the relationship between the various mamodo and their human partners. It can make even a one-off antagonist somewhat memorable because the personalities of the two bounce not just off each other, but Kiyomaru and his own crew.
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May 8, 2024 21:41
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Silver2195 posted:I discussed Flame of Recca in this thread before, but one thing I just realized about it is that it has no actual hook. The main character has fire powers (one of the most generic main character powers, though it’s at least better than generic super strength or energy blasts of no particular element, and his power does eventually turn out to have a couple odd quirks). He’s a ninja (for what turn out to be convoluted reasons), but this doesn’t actually inform his fighting style very much. The vampire-like woman who seems like a throwaway early villain turning out to be the main character’s mother and not actually evil was a surprising twist, but the twist comes too late to count as a hook. Not everything needs some grand hook. But the hook is Kagero essentially telling Recca the path he is taking is dangerous and I believe revealing they are somehow related fairly early on, and sending Fuuko and arming her with Fujin and Mikagami after Recca, to try and get them ready for Kurei and Mouri. The major inciting incident and hook for the rest of the series happens volume 2 with Yanagi getting kidnapped by Koganei and wood guy who's name escapes me now (Mokuton or Mokuren some wood pun) And that sets the stage for the rest of the series and the conflict. So yeah to that poster I remember Flame of Recca pretty well lmao. I keep up with Black Clover whenever it releases and can barely remember the characters. I think it's just a case where there are just too loving many of them. Edit: Gash Bell is also very very good as far as fun characters. Law of Ueki was also a fun read. Dexo fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 8, 2024 |
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May 8, 2024 21:43
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Brought To You By posted:Gash Bell is what I think of when I think of a generic shounen that's well executed. Besides the combat remaining tactical and there being a good balance between individual fights and team battles. I think the real strength of the story is it's character writing, particularly the relationship between the various mamodo and their human partners. It can make even a one-off antagonist somewhat memorable because the personalities of the two bounce not just off each other, but Kiyomaru and his own crew.
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May 8, 2024 22:06
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i think you have an overly generous memory of flame of recca. I remember reading it at a time when I was looking for "major shounen series I haven't read before." I'm not sure exactly when, but I think it was either the late 00s or the early 10s. I remember almost nothing about its story or characters, though, aside from "there were a lot of tournaments." To its credit, I finished it, which I guess inherently places it above something like Black Clover. I think people reading it in more recent years might actually rank it a bit overly generously just because the art style being older will be perceived as "giving it character" instead of "just being a pretty normal art style for the time." It's really hard for me to understand the opinion that Recca has better art than Black Clover otherwise. For everything I don't like about Black Clover, its art has always been quite good. edit: Zatch Bell is a good point of comparison, since I think I read it around the same time but I found it far more memorable.
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May 8, 2024 22:09
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I read Flame of Recca when it was being released originally by Snoopycool lol I might also just be an old man so shrug.
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May 8, 2024 22:27
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Brought To You By posted:Gash Bell is what I think of when I think of a generic shounen that's well executed. Besides the combat remaining tactical and there being a good balance between individual fights and team battles. I think the real strength of the story is it's character writing, particularly the relationship between the various mamodo and their human partners. It can make even a one-off antagonist somewhat memorable because the personalities of the two bounce not just off each other, but Kiyomaru and his own crew. Gash bell is also helped by makoto raikus unhinged art style. He's one of my favorite mangaka
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May 8, 2024 22:44
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Gash Bell is a lot of things but 'generic' isn't one of them aside from the general things that happen in shonen stories that even non-covenantal ones do.
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May 8, 2024 22:49
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Ytlaya posted:I remember Flame of Recca feeling like "the most stereotypical shounen imaginable" to me when I read it years ago. To be fair, Flame of Recca is old as hell so a lot of the stuff it did hadn't been run into the ground yet.
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May 8, 2024 23:43
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I vaguely recall houshin engi being decent shounen but it's probably been over a decade since I last read it
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May 9, 2024 01:34
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I remember Houshin Engi being awful when I read it decades ago.
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May 9, 2024 02:04
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I like a lot of things about Houshin Engi but it has some serious flaws. Also as far as generic shonen series go I think Black Clover is far better than Seven Deadly Sins.
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May 9, 2024 02:25
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Houshin Engi was…fine, I guess. Funny how we were just talking about Hoshin Engi in the ancient history thread in Ask/Tell.
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May 9, 2024 02:26
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PringleCreamEgg posted:I like a lot of things about Houshin Engi but it has some serious flaws. seven deadly sins is one of the worst inexplicably popular properties i've seen in quite a while
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May 9, 2024 05:20
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Someone at netflix is the one SDS superfan
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May 9, 2024 05:35
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