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Empire A season one episode revolves around a Puff Daddy-esque "White Party", because being in any way comparable to Puffy used to be considered desirable. Also, the lack of actual swearing really hurts the show's verisimilitude. I feel like broadcast television has gotten more permissive in that regard since then.
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May 7, 2024 23:10
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SVU is weird because it comes right up against all kinds of slurs and extremely misogynistic language calculated with precision to satisy bs&p, who only care about the words and not the meaning. Also it’s always been the most transparent propaganda, but nobody noticed for a long time.
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May 7, 2024 23:47
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i think a lot of people noticed immediately, actually
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May 8, 2024 01:12
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Alaois posted:i think a lot of people noticed immediately, actually They also noticed it about other cops shows that came beforehand too
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May 8, 2024 01:21
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Yeah, I think the biggest difference is just that SVU is entertaining. All cop shows are just them deep-throating boot leather, but SVU at least offers some ketchup to go with it.
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May 8, 2024 03:24
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I've said it a lot but while a lot - probably most - copaganda is sinister and deliberately propaganda, I think part of it is also just a consequence of laziness. If you want to do a modern day episodic drama, having your main character be a cop is the simplest approach. Cops are, effectively, IRL protagonists. You effortlessly address why it is this character is getting involved in drama week after week withouot having to invent personal stakes or attachments or find contrived coincidences; it's their job. You likewise have a character who is allowed to wield deadly force in modern society, and also who most people will be somewhat deferential to but not to the point of complete submission. Cops are - baggage aside since not like most writers or audiences care - the ideal protagonists for episodic action/thriller/mystery dramas set in the modern day. Plus of course you also have generations of existing copaganda making many if not most audience members default to seeing cops as sympathetic if not outright heroic people. Until fairly recently, making your main character a cop was basically easy mode for writing and solved a lot of problems and introduced basically none. Also a great way to get easy additional drama and the illusion of depth by having them run up against corrupt members of the system, getting torn between their duty and their own personal morals, etc etc. Cops are just easy writing. And that's without mentioning all the political poo poo.
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May 8, 2024 03:32
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the_steve posted:Yeah, I think the biggest difference is just that SVU is entertaining. All cop shows are just them deep-throating boot leather, but SVU at least offers some ketchup to go with it. I had a friend who worked as a dominatrix for a while and they had SVU running on a TV in the breakroom pretty much constantly. I don't have any clever insight to offer here, I just thought it was kind of funny
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May 8, 2024 03:51
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the_steve posted:Yeah, I think the biggest difference is just that SVU is entertaining. All cop shows are just them deep-throating boot leather, but SVU at least offers some ketchup to go with it. SVU would at least have, like, one token "The rapist/killer is a cop!" episode every other season. And,. especially in the early seasons, they'd typically have Benson or Stabler give some pithy remark to other cops when they derogatorily referred to them as the sex police.
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May 8, 2024 04:10
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Never forget the time Stabler flew to Romania to beat a trafficker to near death. I don’t pretend to know politics about this but it sure was dramatic.
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May 8, 2024 04:35
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What was that show about “cops are probably worse criminals than the criminals”? The Wire? The Shield?
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May 8, 2024 04:48
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The Shield, but The Wire wasn’t exactly flattering. The cops were largely awful people. Drinks, careerists, idiots with rage issues, that type of stuff.
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May 8, 2024 05:04
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SVU at least didn't make the pure "love the cops and beg them to spit on your face" ganda we got with Bluebloods. and this: https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/...0told%20People. quote:Actress Mariska Hargitay recently took her role as Detective Olivia Benson on “Law & Order: Special Victims Unit” a step further in real life, helping a lost child, who mistook her for a real police officer, reunite with her mother, a witness told People.
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May 8, 2024 05:13
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well why not posted:The Shield, but The Wire wasn’t exactly flattering. The cops were largely awful people. Drinks, careerists, idiots with rage issues, that type of stuff. Meanwhile, in the original L&O (Particularly in the early years), the majority of other cops were either lazy, varying levels of corrupt, or just going through the motions with no real hero worship. A lot of poo poo changed as NYC got cleaned up in the 90s and then post  stuff
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May 8, 2024 05:19
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well why not posted:The Shield, but The Wire wasn’t exactly flattering. The cops were largely awful people. Drinks, careerists, idiots with rage issues, that type of stuff. Definitely unflattering, but David Simon and co. very much believe in the concept of good policing and the show presents the problem with cops being a result of many factors while eliding the job's inherent evil. A more realistic Wire would have 90% of the force be Herc clones.
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May 8, 2024 05:21
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There’d just be flavours of Herc and Daniels, with a few McNulty peppered in. Just variants of aggro freaks and career psychos and alcoholics.
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May 8, 2024 05:23
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We Own This City is definitely the harsher take on cops from Simon but that was also a true story.
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May 8, 2024 05:25
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IceT claims to have refused astonishing amounts of money to play a cop until he really believed that being a TV cop is just dramatic license to run around with a gun. I’m guessing I’d believe the same thing at a tenth of the price, dm offers please (soon).
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May 8, 2024 06:22
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I've said it a lot but while a lot - probably most - copaganda is sinister and deliberately propaganda, I think part of it is also just a consequence of laziness. If you want to do a modern day episodic drama, having your main character be a cop is the simplest approach. Cops are, effectively, IRL protagonists. You effortlessly address why it is this character is getting involved in drama week after week withouot having to invent personal stakes or attachments or find contrived coincidences; it's their job. You likewise have a character who is allowed to wield deadly force in modern society, and also who most people will be somewhat deferential to but not to the point of complete submission. Cops are - baggage aside since not like most writers or audiences care - the ideal protagonists for episodic action/thriller/mystery dramas set in the modern day. Plus of course you also have generations of existing copaganda making many if not most audience members default to seeing cops as sympathetic if not outright heroic people. The developers of Disco Elysium have said the reason they made the protagonist of that game a cop is because you can say any manner of weird-rear end poo poo to every person you come across, and they have to play along, because you're a cop.
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May 8, 2024 08:25
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Brooklyn 99 is a cop show showing cops as they really are, psychopaths.
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May 8, 2024 08:42
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fartknocker posted:Meanwhile, in the original L&O (Particularly in the early years), the majority of other cops were either lazy, varying levels of corrupt, or just going through the motions with no real hero worship. A lot of poo poo changed as NYC got cleaned up in the 90s and then post The very first season of l&o has not one but two episodes where cops are the killers. One is literally called “The Blue Wall” and is about cops closing ranks to protect their own. Actually, sorry, looking this up there are THREE. 3/22 episodes in S1 about cops being murderers. edit: svu as copaganda is really insidious. One of the series regular actresses, Diane Neal, has said publicly that she regrets doing the show, because she has heard from so many women who got up the courage to report their own sexual assaults after watching SVU. Inevitably, those women discovered the cops wouldn’t listen to them, didn’t care, and that even if their case went forward, the justice system took years to get a result when SVU had them expecting much more support and a much quicker resolution. The extreme compression of time is a huge problem with all the L&O shows I’ve watched (I dunno maybe they got it right in L&O UK), and I think is honestly the biggest problem with the impression the franchise gives about the legal system. Arivia has a new favorite as of 09:17 on May 8, 2024 |
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May 8, 2024 09:11
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There's a really good series of videos about copaganda on Youtube by the channel Skip Intro. There you can learn how an early 2000's teen/young aduld show on the CW like Veronica Mars could semi-accidentally end up being better anti copaganda than most just by being heavily inspired by pre-copaganda film noirs (films noir?).
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May 8, 2024 09:46
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Offler posted:There's a really good series of videos about copaganda on Youtube by the channel Skip Intro. There you can learn how an early 2000's teen/young aduld show on the CW like Veronica Mars could semi-accidentally end up being better anti copaganda than most just by being heavily inspired by pre-copaganda film noirs (films noir?). Yeah, I just recently stumbled across it. It also shows how there's a sliding scale of copaganda from "all our police officers are super professional and any misbehaviour will be immediately corrected because The System Works" (e.g. The Rookie) to "the abuses of power are cool and good and necessary, actually" (e.g. Blue Bloods). And while one is clearly worse than the other, they are both still propaganda in the end.
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May 8, 2024 11:05
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Noir private detectives tend to be all about having to pick up where the lazy and corrupt police left off after all, not that surprising. Veronica Mars also adds being a teenage girl on top of that, dealing with teenage issues that adults in general and especially authority figures enthusiastically do not give a poo poo about if they're not actively causing them or making them worse.
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May 8, 2024 12:08
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well why not posted:Never forget the time Stabler flew to Romania to beat a trafficker to near death. I don’t pretend to know politics about this but it sure was dramatic. Was this inspired by Andrew Tate?
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May 8, 2024 12:15
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The Wicked ZOGA posted:why don't you reap some bitches reapers? more like weapers, am i right?
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May 8, 2024 12:20
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MariusLecter posted:Was this inspired by Andrew Tate? I think the episode they mean featured Stabler visiting the Czech Republic to beat a trafficker, and it aired in 2003. So probably not.
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May 8, 2024 12:31
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Offler posted:There's a really good series of videos about copaganda on Youtube by the channel Skip Intro. There you can learn how an early 2000's teen/young aduld show on the CW like Veronica Mars could semi-accidentally end up being better anti copaganda than most just by being heavily inspired by pre-copaganda film noirs (films noir?). If I remember correctly the ones on L&O are terrible and full of tons of basic technical/factual errors. Like completely misidentifying a character’s role and the basic permutations of “ripped from the headlines” bad.
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May 8, 2024 12:51
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Offler posted:There's a really good series of videos about copaganda on Youtube by the channel Skip Intro. There you can learn how an early 2000's teen/young aduld show on the CW like Veronica Mars could semi-accidentally end up being better anti copaganda than most just by being heavily inspired by pre-copaganda film noirs (films noir?). Like her father is portrayed as a good guy who was probably a "good cop" but got pushed out because he tried investigating a rich guy. And the other "good cop" leaves because the office is so lovely. Spending the entire show following someone trying to help people and/or investigate things the cops explicitly refuse to do when they aren't actively making things worse is going to necessarily have a viewpoint. VMars was a good show and while I watched it a few years after it aired, I wished I had seen it immediately as it came out. I rewatched it a few years ago and i thought it definitely aged well at least then.
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May 8, 2024 13:04
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I've said it a lot but while a lot - probably most - copaganda is sinister and deliberately propaganda, I think part of it is also just a consequence of laziness. If you want to do a modern day episodic drama, having your main character be a cop is the simplest approach. Cops are, effectively, IRL protagonists. You effortlessly address why it is this character is getting involved in drama week after week withouot having to invent personal stakes or attachments or find contrived coincidences; it's their job. You likewise have a character who is allowed to wield deadly force in modern society, and also who most people will be somewhat deferential to but not to the point of complete submission. Cops are - baggage aside since not like most writers or audiences care - the ideal protagonists for episodic action/thriller/mystery dramas set in the modern day. Plus of course you also have generations of existing copaganda making many if not most audience members default to seeing cops as sympathetic if not outright heroic people. I had come to a similar conclusion about both cop shows and medical shows a while back. They allow the writers to have a show that can be watched out of order but still have some minor overarching plotlines if they want. Every episode has a reason for a crisis without the issue that other shows may have of constantly ramping up everything until it is absurd. They can basically tell the same story over and over again by just swapping a few elements (almost a madlibs game). I'm guessing legal dramas might be similar, but I don't have much experience with them.
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May 8, 2024 14:02
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The thing that annoys me about any form of procedural of mystery or whatever crime show is that there's always a murder. Even when it starts out as some other crime eventually the guy also murders someone. Like there's no way to make the audience actually care unless someone's dead.
Splicer has a new favorite as of 15:37 on May 8, 2024 |
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May 8, 2024 15:35
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Splicer posted:The thing that annoys me about any form of procedural of mystery or whatever crime show is that there's always a murder. Even when it starts out as some other crime eventually the guy also murders someone. Like there's no way to make the audience actually care unless someone's dead. Law and order used to do non-murders but once SVU came around it was all homicide.
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May 8, 2024 16:13
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Splicer posted:The thing that annoys me about any form of procedural of mystery or whatever crime show is that there's always a murder. Even when it starts out as some other crime eventually the guy also murders someone. Like there's no way to make the audience actually care unless someone's dead. My favorite thing about this is that the little town in Murder She Wrote had one of the highest per capital murder rates in the country.
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May 8, 2024 16:36
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In the world, baby. Cabot Cove, hell yeah.
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May 8, 2024 16:49
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Push El Burrito posted:My favorite thing about this is that the little town in Murder She Wrote had one of the highest per capital murder rates in the country. Yeah, the murder rate in Cabot Cove puts it at 149 murders per 100K population, which makes it like the third most dangerous city on the planet.
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May 8, 2024 16:52
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Baba Yaga Fanboy posted:Yeah, the murder rate in Cabot Cove puts it at 149 murders per 100K population, which makes it like the third most dangerous city on the planet. I mean, it does contain the physical manifestation of murder. How else do you explain murders happening to people every time Jessica Fletcher travels outside Cabot Cove?
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May 8, 2024 16:59
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William Atherton got killed like three times there.
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May 8, 2024 17:01
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Randalor posted:I mean, it does contain the physical manifestation of murder. How else do you explain murders happening to people every time Jessica Fletcher travels outside Cabot Cove? Yah but it's a quaint New England town. So you may get murdered but man the chowder is amazing. See if Gotham had better PR and like a nice foodie scene, it wouldn't be so grim.
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May 8, 2024 17:02
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Mooseontheloose posted:Yah but it's a quaint New England town. So you may get murdered but man the chowder is amazing. They tried that. It led to the Condiment King.
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May 8, 2024 17:16
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Splicer posted:The thing that annoys me about any form of procedural of mystery or whatever crime show is that there's always a murder. Even when it starts out as some other crime eventually the guy also murders someone. Like there's no way to make the audience actually care unless someone's dead. My local news station (US) does this and it is baffling. They do poo poo like announce people have died or an accident has happened with no context in the last two seconds before a commercial break, like an upcoming guest on a talk show. It's sickening and def a result of the former popularity of miserable shows like homicide dramas and COPS Edit: an example from yesterday. The anchors brought up a tornado but would not clarify where it happened until after the break, at which point they revealed it was Michigan. During the break I just typed tornado into my phone and got the answer. They know this poo poo really happened and it's not a fictional story you can put suspense into right?? CJacobs has a new favorite as of 18:11 on May 8, 2024 |
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May 8, 2024 18:02
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Push El Burrito posted:My favorite thing about this is that the little town in Murder She Wrote had one of the highest per capital murder rates in the country. I think it's very funny that Norway has become one of the world's largest producer and consumer of crime story even though the crime rate is so low. There's been less than 10 confirmed serial killers in Norway the last 200 years and yet there's hundreds of books about grizzled old detectives hunting them in our books.
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May 8, 2024 18:07
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