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QuarkJets posted:Wait... is orks da best Orks Iz Da Bezt
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May 13, 2024 18:05
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Ghost Leviathan posted:For all the intentions with Space Marines, also best to keep in mind the implications in a lot of stuff that like the Thunder Warriors before them, the Space Marines are strongly implied to have originally been intended as tools with an intended use, to be discarded when their liability outweighs their utility. Naturally, ol' Empy didn't tell anyone this, and iirc some implications is at least one Legion turned traitor when they figured that out. There's the occasional hint the Lost Legions were exterminated when they went off the rails earlier than planned, and the Space Wolves originally were outright built around fighting other Space Marines. (Ironically they actually decided to turn back from that when after Prospero they realised they'd end up with no allies left if they kept going) On balance I think that the Space Marines were intended to be permanent and would've been transitioned into other roles, but like so many other things, this was a self-inflicted problem that could have been avoided if Big E ever opened his god damned mouth and told anyone anything for once in his entire loving life.
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May 13, 2024 18:57
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CapnAndy posted:On balance I think that the Space Marines were intended to be permanent and would've been transitioned into other roles, giant beefy ex marines mowing lawns, serving up ice cream at baskin robbins, filing taxes at H&R block
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May 13, 2024 19:10
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CapnAndy posted:
In fairness to Emperor, he a walking gestalt entity of multiple contradictory aspects that are all true simultaneously, which makes clear communication rather difficult. People understand him through their own expectations of him, which causes some issues. See for example Echoes of Eternity, where Sanguinius' pre-cog allows him to simultaneously hear the Emperor say several different things at the same time which are all true or Master of Mankind where we get to see the Emperor from multiple different POV chapters and it becomes staggeringly obvious that the POV characters' own biases alter not just how they perceive him, but also what he communicates to them. Another problem is that whatever he did to juice himself to the level of power he had at the beginning of the Great Crusade has caused him to lost most of his human emotions, though not all of them, and they ebb and flow. He at times treats his sons as replaceable tools, and at times truly loves them, and both are true, and in conflict with each other. Fun fact from the End and the Death: "the Emperor" is his least favourite aspect, if his right-hand man Malcador is to be believed. Also, the Emperor has, at times, canonically been male, female, Warden fucked around with this message at 20:00 on May 13, 2024 |
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May 13, 2024 19:21
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Warden posted:Also, the Emperor has, at times, canonically been male, female, both and neither. The full quote is: He has appeared as male or female, or neither, as child or elder, peasant or king, magician or fool. He has been an entire cartomantic arcana, for the Master of Mankind is also a master of disguise. He has performed all of these roles well, with delicacy. He has been humble when humility was needed, gentle when softness was the best device, sly, amiable, reassuring, commanding, caring. He has been terrible when terror was the only recourse, and sometimes meek in order to inherit the Earth. - End and the Death Vol. 1
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May 13, 2024 19:33
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Warden posted:In fairness to Emperor, he a walking gestalt entity of multiple contradictory aspects that are all true simultaneously, which makes clear communication rather difficult. People understand him through their own expectations of him, which causes some issues. See for example Echoes of Eternity, where Sanguinius' pre-cog allows him to simultaneously hear the Emperor say several different things at the same time which are all true or Master of Mankind where we get to see the Emperor from multiple different POV chapters and it becomes staggeringly obvious that the POV characters' own biases alter not just how they perceive him, but also what he communicates to them.
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May 13, 2024 19:35
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CapnAndy posted:and don't worry, you'll all have places in the Imperium after we're done fighting. That would have been a lie though. Specifically "you'll all"-part. As per tEatD, Emps and Malcador expected they could rehabilitate some of Primarchs for peace-time roles but not all of them. And it's not like there wasn't already a precedent of two Primarchs and their Legions getting damnatio memorio'd. But yeah, the Emperor fuuuuuucked up. Him being spectacularly stupid about it was an unavoidable consequence of turning what had been in-game myth and legend into a book series. Edit. I'd also add that any risk of information leakage about the Webway Project would have immediately stalled the Great Crusade, because the Navigator Houses would all have revolted and started a civil war. See for example what went down in Scars re: Dark Glass. Warden fucked around with this message at 20:00 on May 13, 2024 |
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May 13, 2024 19:57
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CapnAndy posted:All of that is true but it's still no excuse for not telling people "hey, Chaos is very real and it is dangerous for these exact reasons, I am banning these specific things because they are dangerous in these specific ways, these are the telltale signs of Chaos corruption (fuckers can't help themselves but be obvious), be on the lookout for them and respond to them in this fashion" or "okay I'm dipping out of the Crusade because it has progressed to a point where I think you can all handle it without me, I'm very proud of you all, I'm going back to Terra to work on a project for interstellar travel that doesn't use the Warp so that we can cut ourselves off completely from Chaos, which I've previously told you all about how bad that is so you understand, and don't worry, you'll all have places in the Imperium after we're done fighting. Oh and PS Magnus, why don't you come with me, my post-war plans for you specifically involve this stuff so you might as well start getting some on-the-job training." AFAIK this isn't explored in the canon, but IMO the reason Big E didn't say anything about chaos to the Primarchs is because they would've figured out their creation was a one-time deal with chaos. Then in a big divorced-parents move, more of them
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May 13, 2024 20:33
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Starting to think that this Emperor fellow wasn't that nice of a guy
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May 13, 2024 20:38
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Hey, quick question about the Custodes. Space Marines famously, after all their surgeries and implants and additional organs, end up being 50% larger than ordinary humans and thus can't blend in to a crowd of humans (on account of them all being 8 feet tall and packing 400 pounds of pure muscle - and Primaris are half-again as large as that). When people undergo the transformation process to make them into Custodes, the end result is a person that still looks human and is the same size as a human (although with the musculature and features of a perfectly sculpted Greek statue), right? There's a bit in the Codex where it says that when Custodes get too broken down to serve as mainline troops, they retire and wander the galaxy as hidden spies/troubleshooters/information gatherers for the Emperor, and I was thinking they'd have a hard time discretely observing and infiltrating if they were all the size of two NFL linebackers stacked on top of one another.
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May 13, 2024 20:49
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No, Custodes are even taller than Space Marines. But there’s all sorts of gene-jacked muscle heads and cyborgs and other really big guys in the galaxy, so both Space Marines and Custodes can go disguised in regular society.
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May 13, 2024 20:52
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FMguru posted:Hey, quick question about the Custodes. Space Marines famously, after all their surgeries and implants and additional organs, end up being 50% larger than ordinary humans and thus can't blend in to a crowd of humans (on account of them all being 8 feet tall and packing 400 pounds of pure muscle - and Primaris are half-again as large as that). When people undergo the transformation process to make them into Custodes, the end result is a person that still looks human and is the same size as a human (although with the musculature and features of a perfectly sculpted Greek statue), right? There's a bit in the Codex where it says that when Custodes get too broken down to serve as mainline troops, they retire and wander the galaxy as hidden spies/troubleshooters/information gatherers for the Emperor, and I was thinking they'd have a hard time discretely observing and infiltrating if they were all the size of two NFL linebackers stacked on top of one another. Custodes are supposed to be taller than space marines. Admittedly someone whose canonically approaching 3m in height would have a hard time being a spy 
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May 13, 2024 20:53
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Gripweed posted:No, Custodes are even taller than Space Marines. Vampire Panties posted:Custodes are supposed to be taller than space marines. Admittedly someone whose canonically approaching 3m in height would have a hard time being a spy This is now my new favorite dumb 40K setting detail, displacing the claim that the Raven Guard are specialists in stealth, sneaking, and infiltration.
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May 13, 2024 20:58
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FMguru posted:LOL. I did always like this old 4chan joke about Space Marine gigantism: quote:Captain Darren of the 3rd Company was one of the most decorated members of the Reasonable Marines for three reasons: He was a supreme executor of reason and logic, he was a formidable warrior, and he had a certain manner about him that put many non-Astartes at ease. He was massive, well over eight feet, but he perpetually wore a rather mild facial expression improved with a slight smile. His eyes invited conversation from those around him, and unlike many Astartes from their brother legions, he did not attempt to tower over those Xeno/Heretics/Imperials that they bothered to talk to. He stood well outside of their personal space, and nodded politely as they talked, only offering his own input when it was necessary.
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May 13, 2024 21:07
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Maybe the Custodes/Space Marine spies dress up as Bone'ead Ogryns 
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May 13, 2024 21:18
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FMguru posted:LOL.
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May 13, 2024 21:19
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Some Raven Guard absolutely do have paranormal powers of not being seen, echoes of Corvus’s power where he could literally just not be noticed when he didn’t want to be. Custodes don’t. But there really are a lot of big guys in the galaxy. Goliath gangers from Necromunda take super steroids that make them as big as Space Marines, VIPs can commission gene-jacked bodyguards who are just huge walls of muscle. And you have to remember that 99 percent of humanity has never even seen a Space Marine, and a similar number have never even heard of Custodes. So if you see a huge guy in a bar, you’re gonna assume he’s some mob enforcer type or something, not one of the Emperor’s own Angels.
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May 13, 2024 21:27
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There’s multiple short stories where the Custodes use displacer fields and falsehoods to conceal themselves in public spaces when doing Blood Games stuff, both in terms of not being seen entirely or appearing normal human size. Edit: took me a bit to find the one I was thinking of in particular - https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Games_(Short_Story) - where two Custodians fool multiple senior diplomats into thinking they’re baseline humans kim jong-illin fucked around with this message at 22:32 on May 13, 2024 |
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May 13, 2024 22:24
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I always got the vibe that Custodes are to the Emperor what Space Marines are to the Primarchs, at least thematically. (Or was that the Grey Knights? I'm sure they have some dirty secrets) Would be on-brand that they share some of his signature abilities.CapnAndy posted:On balance I think that the Space Marines were intended to be permanent and would've been transitioned into other roles, but like so many other things, this was a self-inflicted problem that could have been avoided if Big E ever opened his god damned mouth and told anyone anything for once in his entire loving life. It doesn't help that the Primarch that Big E did trust the most to the point of being his second in command and right hand was a guy we know as Horus.
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May 13, 2024 22:55
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William Bear posted:He has appeared as male or female, or neither, as child or elder, peasant or king, magician or fool. He has been an entire cartomantic arcana, for the Master of Mankind is also a master of disguise. He has performed all of these roles well, with delicacy. He has been humble when humility was needed, gentle when softness was the best device, sly, amiable, reassuring, commanding, caring. He has been terrible when terror was the only recourse, and sometimes meek in order to inherit the Earth. He's not a weapon, or a pycher or a chaos god in waiting. He's Inspector Clouseau. A master of disguise, indeed.
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May 13, 2024 23:24
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Comstar posted:He's not a weapon, or a pycher or a chaos god in waiting. 
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May 13, 2024 23:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I always got the vibe that Custodes are to the Emperor what Space Marines are to the Primarchs, at least thematically. (Or was that the Grey Knights? I'm sure they have some dirty secrets) Would be on-brand that they share some of his signature abilities. It's never conclusively stated (of course, most things aren't) but in general the Custodes are really more the Emperor's Companions than directly tied with him. Notably they work closely with a group of anti-psykers, so in general I would be leery of suggesting that they have any of the psychic power required to be that sort of offshoot of the Emperor. The Grey Knights might be, though. They were developed by the Emperors right hand man, Malcador, they're all psychic, and it's suggested that their gene seed is patterened directly off the emperor than using the primarchs as a stepping stone. They do a lot of anti-Daemon work.
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May 13, 2024 23:49
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Comstar posted:He's not a weapon, or a pycher or a chaos god in waiting. That explains so much.
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May 13, 2024 23:59
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Comstar posted:He's not a weapon, or a pycher or a chaos god in waiting. You mean the very Obi-Wan Sherlock Clouseau?
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May 14, 2024 00:15
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kim jong-illin posted:There’s multiple short stories where the Custodes use displacer fields and falsehoods to conceal themselves in public spaces when doing Blood Games stuff, both in terms of not being seen entirely or appearing normal human size. How would this work if they have to walk through a baseline human scaled door? Or get in a vehicle designed for baseline humans?
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May 14, 2024 01:00
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There aren't any of those in 40k so it's not a problem
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May 14, 2024 01:11
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Rhandhali posted:How would this work if they have to walk through a baseline human scaled door? Or get in a vehicle designed for baseline humans?
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May 14, 2024 01:20
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Benagain posted:There aren't any of those in 40k so it's not a problem It does kind of make it a little silly when you realize that the Sisters of Battle use essentially the same equipment as Space Marines. I mean, is the reason for 6" stilettos so they can reach the pedals to drive the Rhino?
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May 14, 2024 02:31
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cult_hero posted:It does kind of make it a little silly when you realize that the Sisters of Battle use essentially the same equipment as Space Marines. That and stomping on heretics. And hitting the pedals on the missile launching war organ.
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May 14, 2024 02:33
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cult_hero posted:It does kind of make it a little silly when you realize that the Sisters of Battle use essentially the same equipment as Space Marines. rhinos are differently sized for space marines vs. normal peeps. there's a paragraph in ciaphas cain where he rides in a space marine rhino and feels like a child the emperor's finest posted:The Thunderhawks were impressive enough, too, and I slowed my pace a little as I neared the closer of them. They weren't as large as the platoon-sized drop-ships the Guard routinely used, let alone the company-sized behemoths I'd ridden in on occasion, but their blocky solidity looked immediately reassuring. Their heavy armour could doubtless soak up a lot of incoming fire, and they seemed more than capable of dishing it out as well as taking it, judging by the amount of ordnance I could see hanging off their airframes. They were painted yellow and white, like the armour of the Astartes marching up the boarding ramp of the one I was approaching, their simultaneous footfalls echoing off the metal mesh like drumbeats, and looked as fresh as if they'd just been rolled out for the first time. Having gathered a little of how much tradition meant to a Space Marine Chapter, I had no doubt that they were considerably more venerable than they appeared, perhaps even centuries old, but their immaculate condition was a tribute to Drumon and the serf enginseers he supervised. It heartened me, too, I have to admit, as I found it hard to conceive of an enemy capable of standing against such a formidable vessel. bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 02:37 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 02:34
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Rhandhali posted:How would this work if they have to walk through a baseline human scaled door? Or get in a vehicle designed for baseline humans? i suspect you've already put more thought into the problem than the writers edit:  e: if a space marine has his human buddies over for dinner, do they have to use huge rear end space marine utensils? must be a pain. Buce fucked around with this message at 02:42 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 02:37
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generally, the answer to "what about fitting into places" questions in the imperium of man is that there's no problem because everywhere significant is sized gigantically
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May 14, 2024 02:39
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Tragically due to conversion issues from Emperor measurements to Metric all the templates for buildings are way too big
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May 14, 2024 02:49
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Buce posted:i suspect you've already put more thought into the problem than the writers they eat nutrient slop separately this is not roboute guilliman, its some rando normal human, roboute surcour who's just from macragge and who is a rogue trader (ostensibly - and then actually, during the course of the book). linya is a tech-priest priests of mars posted:
battle-barges and fortress-monasteries have quarters for normal humans because the space marines are just the fighty-and-leady portion of the whole shebang, they all have thousands of chapter serfs bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 02:56 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 02:51
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Hihohe posted:It was janky fun. they started writing necromunda stuff again, check out the new collection Necromunda: Uprising someone mentioned corpse starch, which is more or less used as bottom of the barrel subsistence food on hive worlds. on necromunda, and i believe it's implied on other hive worlds too, occasionally the corpse guild work gangs in the corpse starch facilities will develop cases of supernatural cannibalism which will spread into (khornate) corpse grinder cults filled with terrifying, well-fed muscleguys also both the old omnibuses are totally worth reading too
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May 14, 2024 03:30
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:supernatural cannibalism which will spread into (khornate) corpse grinder cults filled with terrifying, well-fed muscleguys Behold, the most 40K sentence ever
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May 14, 2024 03:59
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:they started writing necromunda stuff again, check out the new collection Necromunda: Uprising Even if it is made of people, the psycho war god feels like the worst possible fit for eating so much government cheese you start seeing demons A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 04:19 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 04:16
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Even if it is made of people, the psycho war god feels like the worst possible fit for eating so much government cheese you start seeing demons There is no way there are enough corpses to feed people. The average number of available corpses to eat in a lifetime is gonna be about one. I suppose baroque silliness fits the setting though.
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May 14, 2024 04:44
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the imperium of man is basically predicated on human lifetimes and life cycle times being similar to rat lifetimes and life cycle times. that's what it would take to make the math work out hence, the imperium of man being the skaven of 40k jokes
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May 14, 2024 04:48
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Goes without saying that there's a whole immense underclass of people grown for meat, which are fed to the people grown for skulls, which are fed to the space marines, which are fed to the Emperor
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May 14, 2024 04:56
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