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Cythereal posted:The Wardstones were personally put in place by Iomedae, and that belt buckle Yua gave to Galfrey was originally given to Galfrey by Iomedae in person. Sure, but that's a pretty far reach from what you, personally, are doing now. At least from what I felt playing the game, it definitely felt like the gods were generally distant, poking in a bit of help here and there at the sides - and while the help is appreciated (I mean I tend to roll Sarenrae who makes an entire zone EZ Mode later on), there's a big gap between that and whatever is going on with your mythic power. The gods aren't meant to step in personally to handle things, they're meant to let their representatives do stuff, which matches with Shelyn and the brief bits like Sarenrae letting you roll over a whole zone or Caiden giving you a big boost to the tavern defense. It's super helpful! It's also limited in scope and time. Straight up pointing at someone and pumping them full of divine energy for good is not in their usual MO. Turning living people into angels is not their usual MO and in fact I don't think ever happens period. They already had people for direct divine intervention, named paladins and clerics. You're something much, much bigger then that.
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May 11, 2024 21:09
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ProfessorCirno posted:Turning living people into angels is not their usual MO and in fact I don't think ever happens period. It does happen, in a manner of speaking, and it won't be too much longer before we encounter multiple examples. Thing is, I see these as basically unrelated events. I think that if it wasn't Yua stepping up to the plate, someone else would have - probably Irabeth, possibly the next person who's going to join the party. Minagho was dangerous as far as she goes, but she was one wildly overconfident demon obssessed with her own agenda and I felt that it was clear that it was only a matter of time until some relocated her rear end up between her ears. The PC's mythic power just ensured that it happened in particularly spectacular fashion. Yua's matter, I see as conveniently timed but not itself related - until Yua *made* them related by becoming so prominently involved and winning so many battles.
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May 11, 2024 21:31
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I see things same as Cythreal does, with the additional thought that our Mythic Powers are tilting the odds in our favor. Said powers have intervened for us multiple times- the Wardstone fight, the confrontation back in the Shield Maze, etc. They have also enabled us to take power from things like the Angel's sword, the Lich's Wand, and the Aeon's Knife. Where they came from and why they were given to us, we don't yet know. Maybe we're concerned, or maybe we're just enjoying the advantages and using them to help the world and ourselves. Whatever, the best way to explore the origins of our powers is to play the game.
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May 11, 2024 22:03
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I think I'll just chalk this up to a difference in difficulty settings. Certainly in Story Difficulty you'd be doing fine-ish without the mythic powers, you or someone else could've easily knocked Minagho down a few pegs, ended the siege in Kenabras, killed the Vescavor Queen without issue, and here, dominated your way up the mountain. That is extremely not the case when you get into higher difficulties, and I will reiterate, at least for the story as I enjoy it, I prefer that greatly. I like the story where everything is tensely hard won, and it's the mythic power specifically that's acting as your biggest edge. One where the Shield Maze is as dangerous as you've been lead to believe, where demons can be a very real and very dangerous threat, and every enemy that's amped up as being scary actually is. In Core difficulty alone you don't have a chance at all against Minagho - that mythic power boost hits after she's wiped you all out. The demons are cocky because they HAD won - right until something real loving weird happened and that gaping wound of yours started drawing in power. It's very, very clear that it's specifically the mythic power that's tilting the scales, not any amount of divine intervention - and at this point in the story, while lots of Crusaders call you an agent of Iomedae, there's a few beyond Regill who are disturbed at how fast you're getting powerful, and how powerful you're becoming, and how it doesn't seem to match any of the previous stories of divine intervention.
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May 11, 2024 23:54
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ProfessorCirno posted:The demons are cocky because they HAD won - right until something real loving weird happened and that gaping wound of yours started drawing in power. It's very, very clear that it's specifically the mythic power that's tilting the scales, not any amount of divine intervention - and at this point in the story, while lots of Crusaders call you an agent of Iomedae, there's a few beyond Regill who are disturbed at how fast you're getting powerful, and how powerful you're becoming, and how it doesn't seem to match any of the previous stories of divine intervention. And I simply disagree with this interpretation: I think the demons were on track to getting their teeth kicked in regardless and the PC is a whole other kettle of fish that's just making things easier and flashier than they would have been otherwise. It's clear to me that you don't intend to be moved on this point, so suit yourself, but my take on this game's story is that the demons only seem to win when they possess overwhelming advantages, and every time a fight turns remotely fair, they fail. They're bullies, only looking strong when they pick on the relatively defenseless with overwhelming force. In my eyes, what makes the PC really special in all of this is that they'll presumably be able to make victory stick, instead of continuing the back and forth quagmire.
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May 11, 2024 23:57
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Cythereal posted:Minagho was dangerous as far as she goes, but she was one wildly overconfident demon obssessed with her own agenda and I felt that it was clear that it was only a matter of time until some relocated her rear end up between her ears. The PC's mythic power just ensured that it happened in particularly spectacular fashion. I mean, the story so far is that the PC and pals are a few days away from inhabiting a Kenabres-shaped crater. The only reason they don't is that the demonic forces as organized as they are compassionate, and our mysterious Mythic power that is surprisingly flexible with the ethics of the power source you plug it into. If there's someone else in Minagho's weight class who was hiding out in the area, they were taking their sweet time. Also, I'm not sure our next companion counts, as in most scenarios, Minagho as written would mop the floor with her. It's why Ember's perspective is so persuasive. Capital E Evil is running riot while Good is playing by the normal rules of empowering a few proxies and letting them sort everything out. Edit: Cythereal posted:It's clear to me that you don't intend to be moved on this point, so suit yourself, but my take on this game's story is that the demons only seem to win when they possess overwhelming advantages, and every time a fight turns remotely fair, they fail. While I don't agree with your conclusion that someone else could have resolved the situation on Kenabres, I actually do agree with you on this. It's just that the thing that evens out the big, decisive battles is the PC and their strange Mythic power. It's even supported by the game granting some mythic power to your close party, as showing that the bullies can be beaten gives strength to people fighting alongside of you. Capfalcon fucked around with this message at 00:14 on May 12, 2024 |
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May 12, 2024 00:04
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Capfalcon posted:I mean, the story so far is that the PC and pals are a few days away from inhabiting a Kenabres-shaped crater. I do not agree. I think that Galfrey's army would have rolled up Minagho and crew as soon as they arrived and we'd be back to the stalemate. Galfrey, as presented when she joins the party, would be a match for Minagho and then some. Minagho was on a ticking clock that she did not appreciate. The story just conveniently delays Galfrey's arrival until you win, no matter how long that takes.
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May 12, 2024 00:07
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I see it as basically the every faction involved in the Worldwound being their own worst enemy. Demons have overwhelming individual powers but are fundamentally incapable of holding their gains because their entire civilization is focused around personal gain and any cooperation has to be enforced at the end of a sword. The cultists and other assorted minions have enough organization to subvert the crusades' efforts and get them to focus more on inward threats than fighting demons, but as we've repeatedly seen they can't stand up to any serious opposition once the fighting actually starts, and they tend to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the forces they nominally serve and tend to die messily once they run into that contradiction. The net result of this is that they tend to make large, flashy offensives that tend to fail long term because they draw enough attention to that the crusaders pull together long enough to fight them off, their major victories come mostly through subversion and getting lucky, and any lasting success comes more from the crusaders infighting leaving them unable to mount serious advances plus the odd superweapon trick like vescavor swarms being hard to counter by normal warfare. On the flipside, the good gods have enough power to match the demons but for various reasons are generally unable to directly apply that without directing it through mortal intervention, while the crusaders are made of multiple groups with no real efforts to work together and a great deal of infighting and purity testing- see Hulrin, the Hellknights, the Desnans ineffectively trying to save the Wardstones, etc. In this light, the PC isn't necessarily special due to their mythic power directly, but more because they're able to leverage this power into getting an actual united front going and keeping the internal pressures from selfdestructing- which is arguably also why everything goes to poo poo once Galfrey does the thing and they're out of the picture. E. Yeah, I don't see Mingaho/the Worldstone threat as being as serious as presented, the people of the city would have been screwed without the PC helping out but as presented it doesn't seem like Minagho herself had any chance of actually subverting the the Worldstone. Even if the plan she was given was actually capable of working at all, which isn't a given since any competent demon would see an ambitious underling as the most dangerous threat to them, her own dialogue indicates that they were making basically no progress on the plan. kvx687 fucked around with this message at 00:23 on May 12, 2024 |
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May 12, 2024 00:19
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I do agree that the only reason Minagho's victory isn't completely assured is because she seems about as interested in 'reconnecting' with Staunton as she does blowing up the Wardstone, but I feel pretty confident in saying if the PC wasn't present, or didn't have Mythic powers, there'd be a whole lot more dead NPCs. Both the named ones we've met/recruited and the nameless background citizens/crusaders. Well, dead or gtfo'ing away from the city/worldwound/crusades.
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May 12, 2024 00:20
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I think it's fair to say that if it weren't for the PC, the wardstone in Kenabres might have been compromised, leading to an expansion of the Worldwound. I also think it's fair to say that it probably wouldn't have totally nuked the entire Wardstone network like Minagho intended before Galfrey showed up, and that the Crusade forces could have at least minimized the damage from there. But it would have come with greater loss of life and possibly the complete loss of Kenabres as a staging point.
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May 12, 2024 05:05
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Yeah, at worst, Kenabres loving explodes and takes all the other wardstones with it, but even at best, by the time Galfrey arrives, Kenabres is in ruins, Terendelev is dead, and there's clear evidence the wardstones no longer function as they used to. Plus, without you and your cool purple knife, nobody can fix the Kenabres wardstone, so it's now a ticking time bomb even if you get rid of Minagho.
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May 12, 2024 06:37
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The question about where the crusade would end up if not for the arrival of the hero is fun. Minagho is really powerful, even when you meet her the second time at the GG. (On other difficulties) she would be a very formidable opponent without the mythic power boost Yua got while fighting her. She also seemed quite surprised and confused Yua was able to approach the wardstone without going through her. There's more than meets the eye to the whole story. In the PnP version there's a blurb about what to do if the heroes somehow fail their mission at the grey garrison, though no DM would take that as it effectively derails the campaign.
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May 12, 2024 07:26
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Yeah, for me it also looks like without PC and its miraculous boost in power situation was extremely grim. The second most powerful defender of Crusade, a goddamn silver dragon, was oneshotted basically without a fight, the main defensive mechanism (wardstone) was compromised and Kenabres was millimeters from being Drezen'd. This is hardly winning situation.
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May 12, 2024 09:30
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I definitely think that Galfrey arriving would 100% be the end of what Minagho was planning, so I doubt it would've been in time. It just feels like the Wardstone thing had a lot of narrative weight as "Thing you really have to stop", so the conclusion of "It was doomed to failure regardless of the PC's actions" seems off with the whatchamacallit. It sure wouldn't have been the war ending, demons winning, all that, but it definitely would've been a pretty serious thing in the war. Something to go in the history books like the Fall of Drezen.
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May 12, 2024 14:54
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Call and Response If you didn't pick up Zacharius' wand at Leper's Smile, there's only one path forward.  There's more rooms filled with ghouls and more edgy torture porn that I don't care to recount.   "She's hurting. Probably worse than I was, in the fire. We'll heal you, Irabeth. But..." (Ember touches her shoulder.) "You'll have scars. Maybe not on your body, but you'll have some." (Cursing, Seelah rushes to help Irabeth) (With your help, Irabeth gets off the hook. She sways with a moan but remains standing.) "What lies further ahead? Did you see anything?" "Staunton Vhane... The fallen paladin of Drezen... He is here. With the demoness. It's a... trap. Please... be careful." "That waste of space is still alive? Back at the Gray Garrison, I thought that eyeless beast only took him with her as a snack for the road." "Can you walk? Anevia is waiting at the foot of the hill. She'll help you." "Yes. I'll... get there. Thank you, Commander."I have skipped over nothing I deem of value. Demons are evil, who knew?   It's possible for Irabeth to die at this point if you decide to be an rear end in a top hat to her. Irabeth's primary role in this game's story is to suffer, to the point that she has a hidden sanity meter reflecting how intense her PTSD gets.    "Oh darling, why so sad? Oh please, sweetheart, say something. When you're like this, it makes me sad too. You don't want me to be sad, do you? Come on, smile!" (Her sharp nails sink deeper into the dwarf's skin, and the demon's lips draw close to his face. He winces.) "I did everything you wanted! Even better than you wanted! The fools who humiliated you got what they deserved. Can you hear them scream? And now their Commander will be torn to pieces along with them. It's sure to be a fine show, just for the two of us — and we have the best seats in the house!" "This is... too much. They deserved death, and what happened in Kenabres was fair punishment. But this? This depraved torture? Order your creature to finish them off, and we'll be done here!" "Sweetie, don't tell me what to do!" (Her clawed fingers release the dwarf's face and move lower, stroking his broad chest.) "We were too soft on them, I think. Just remember the way they humiliated you! And for what — for your part in a heroic feat! And now they would take Drezen from you! Each of them deserves a hundred deaths! The only thing unfair about this is that we can kill them only once! There, there, now. Don't pout! Kiss me, my love, and let's enjoy the spectacle!" (A tongue resembling a fat crimson slug crawls out of Minagho's mouth and reaches out to Staunton's face. The dwarf turns away, and the demon's tongue leaves a moist trace of slime on his cheek.)Part of why I discount Minagho as a threat in the story is that the actual evidence for her doing much of anything besides loving Staunton is slim on the ground. This whole attack with the gargoyles was apparently Staunton's idea. The Kenabres attack seems to have been Deskari's idea, and counted on him personally as the main punch. All Minagho seems to personally do is dilly dally with the Wardstone and be a bitch (and I do not use that word lightly) to Staunton. Yeah she gets a lot of hype from the backstory, but as far as her actual measurable actions go in Wrath's story I rate her as a buffoon. She wouldn't be the first military commander in history to ride high on a string of major successes early in her career and let it go to her head, eventually leading to a series of disasters. Staunton, the one who seems eternally unaware that demons are in fact evil and sadistic, comes across to me as a far bigger threat than Minagho herself.  "Minagho! Call off your puppet and come down here, now!" "But why would I ever do that? You'd better come up to me. Not all of you, of course. Just your head will suffice... Nulkineth, my dear. Bring me her head!" (The monster looks at you, and for a moment you feel once more that there is no one here besides the two of you. You feel his power — the same power granted to you. You realize that a battle is coming, the likes of which you've never endured before. But your opponent will soon realize the same. You feel his power... and his fear. A moment later, the monster strikes.)Now, I'm playing this on story so Nulkineth goes down like a sack of rotten potatoes, but I'm told that on higher difficulties this is one of the hardest fights in the entire game.  However, there is a way to cheese this encounter: at character creation, make the PC a worshiper of Pharasma. If you do, at this point you get a special option to proclaim holy vengeance on this den of undeath and necromancy in the name of the Grey Lady, and all the party's weapons light up with radiance as whippoorwills - Pharasma's sacred animal, not found in the Worldwound - suddenly start singing all around the chapel. Nulkineth shits a brick as he realizes that he now has the personal attention of Golarion's oldest and most powerful deity, and she's given the PC and company an appropriately substantial buff for this fight.  (It won't happen. Anger, pain, fear... all emotions subside. Boundless, triumphant power wells up from somewhere deep inside you. Now you only feel...) [Good] (...Hope.) (A blinding flash illuminates the battlefield, lighting up the ghouls with their bared teeth. Rage and terror flash across the demon's twisted muzzle, and the despair on the people's faces is replaced with joy.)Mythic Power cuts in with this scene.   Nulkineth and the remaining ghouls are torched.  (The demon yelps and covers her mouth with her hand.) "How... This shouldn't have... Why..." (She grabs her companion by the shoulders and yells,) "Staunton! What is this? What should we do?" (Occult symbols appear on her face, and they flush red like bloody ulcers.) "I can't do anything with these sores... It's no use! Darling, please do something!" (The dwarf gives her a sharp slap on the cheek.) "Calm down! I said quiet! First, just get us out of here. Then we'll decide what to do." "Right... Right! Let's fly away, quickly!" (Holding Staunton close to herself, Minagho disappears.)Once again, Minagho and Staunton flee with their tails (literally in Minagho's case) firmly between their legs.   "The torturer is no more. But... what happened before he died? It looked like what I heard happened at the Gray Garrison. A flash of power and a change. I've never seen anything like it in my life. There was a frightening beauty to it." "I need a mattress. Preferably a magical one, so it will fly along wherever I go — and be ready if you start shaking again, Yua. It's no fun getting thrown to the rocks." (Ember looks at the breaking dawn.) "How pretty. The sun is rising. Something is burning in you too, Yua — illuminating everything around you like the sunrise." "Well, I'll be damned! That power again! It's so strange, Yua... It doesn't seem like Iomedae's intervention. The gods rarely interfere in mortal affairs, and never twice in a row." "That preposterous unscientific power again! Sooner or later I will research it, categorize, and describe its effects. Or else I'm not Nenio, the greatest scientist on Golarion!" "What's done cannot be undone. We'll have time to ponder this. For now, let's go." (The rays of the rising sun light up the gruesome battlefield where once again you felt the strange surge of power. The road awaits.)The source of Yua's power remains a mystery, though signs are starting to point towards it somehow being tied to the Worldwound itself, but one thing is now clear: what happened at the Gray Garrison was not a one-off incident and Yua's power is growing.  You might recall me mentioning back at the Gray Garrison update that mythic levels are only granted by plot events. Yua just leveled up in her mythic path as a hero, and brought the entire party along for the ride. Plus an actual more mundane level up.  All PCs get Hard to Kill at this point, then two features that depend on your chosen mythic hero archetype and a mythic feat. Because I chose Instrument of Freedom for Yua, the Azata-themed archetype, Yua can now summon a Bralani - a minor type of Azata - and gains resistances to electricity and mind-affecting effects. For her first mythic feat, Yua picks up Mythic Rapid Shot, which removes the to-hit penalty for using Rapid Shot mode. Yua is now just as accurate when firing her crossbow on rock and roll as she is when placing individual shots.  Her mundane level up is fairly meaningless beyond getting another point of Dexterity.   Lann gets a new rank of spells, +1 Dexterity, and in Deadly Aim mode (which is all the time) now deals even more bonus damage.   Seelah now hits harder across the board, is immune to charm spells and effects, and makes nearby allies more resistant to charm effects.   Nenio picks up some utility magic that I may or may not ever remember to use, and the always useful spell penetration.   Ember is now less squishy, better at healing, and also gets spell penetration.   Sosiel gets better at fighting. He doesn't yet have Power Attack or comparable feats, so his first mythic feat is the boring but useful Flawless Attacks, making him more accurate whenever he attacks multiple times per round.  Now, you would understandably think it's time to move on, but with dawn rising a whole other part of this map has quietly opened up: you can now make your way down the mountain to a previously inaccessible area.  The area is littered with gargoyles, ghouls, and demons.  Including this nasty piece of work.  The important thing down here, though, is this altar to Desna. Clicking on it plays a few musical notes.  The altar is also a container, with this inside. You want to leave this here.  Work your way around the path to this point.  Where a corpse has this. Pick it up and keep going.  There's a cave at the end of the path. Keep going.  There are some gargoyles in the cave, most of them alive but a few not. These headless corpses are only here if you recruited Daeran, so this is presumably the work of the Other.  There's two particularly noteworthy pieces of loot in here. First is this, and contrary to what you might expect, there's no sidequests tied to this book or anything further you can do with this. Fan speculation is that this book is tied to cut content of some form: there's evidence that you were originally supposed to find this book in Drezen and be able to upgrade it or find out more about it as the game went on. As it is, none of that potential future content for the book made it into the game and this is all you have. Useful for some character builds, though!  This is the third and final Desnan artifact.  Back at the altar, place the other two Desnan artifacts - the sextant and the harp - together in with the map, and you now have three buttons to click, each of which plays a few musical notes. This is a music puzzle, and if you didn't help the Desnans back in Kenabres you probably won't recognize the melody you're supposed to be assembling. Click middle-right-left-middle, and you have the opening bars of the Azata mythic theme.  Complete the melody, and the Azata mythic theme starts playing for real.   "Your voice seems familiar." "I doubt we've met before. But this melody unites us. Desna herself must have brought you here." (The figure turns to you. A moment later she shudders, and you hear a muffled sob.) "In the name of Desna... I see, I see you! How... beautiful!" (A fragile blue butterfly, a messenger of Desna, lands on your palm. Did the goddess herself really lead you here?) "Who are you?" "Just a prisoner... Of this cell, and of my whole unworthy life. Wait... You're not here, are you? It's just an apparition. I'm awaiting execution in the dungeons below Drezen. If Desna really sent you... If I still deserve some mercy... Find me. Please, find me!"If you didn't unlock the Azata path back in Kenabres, this exchange is shorter and more cryptic. Since Yua did visit Elysium and heard the mysterious woman's warning, completing this sequence will enable something very interesting when the time comes to hit Drezen. But that won't be quite yet. Until next time. The Crimson Path (this update) Cultist 1 Demodand 1 Gargoyles 13 Ghouls 32 Incubi 3 Nabassu 1 Succubi 3
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May 12, 2024 15:20
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Oh yeah I actually stumbled into this on my first playthrough and it's such a lovely touch. Just kinda set what path I was going.
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May 12, 2024 15:55
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That's neat. I knew about the extra area but never figured out there was a puzzle there. I guess our last friend does have more foreshadowing than I thought
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May 12, 2024 16:51
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My first play I didn't even know you could descent to the foot of the hill.
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May 12, 2024 16:56
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Poor Irabeth. I kind of spoiled myself on accident about that hidden meter early on and am sort of glad I did. Not that I think I would have behaved differently, mind. Because why would I not be kind and supportive to a PTSD victim? But I made extra sure to check in on her regularly.
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May 12, 2024 18:05
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How hard Nulkineth is boils down to one question: does he hit enough of you with Mass Hold Person? If he does, it's time to remind yourself why Unbreakable Heart is the best level 1 spell in the game, if the Vescavors didn't already teach you that - unless of course, your casters of such got Mass Held. If so, uh oh. There's actually one more optional boss in this area - Maugla - who's a major party killer, especially since he tends to ambush you, and you're likely far from peak capacity. I've died to it far more then Nulkineth. I like Daeren trying to play things off like, oh yeah it was crazy, gargoyles just don't like me or something. And then you actually go into the cave and discover that no, it was the unknowable eldritch being he has a pact with that saved him. Funny, that. You say the mundane bard level wasn't worth much, but Dirge of Doom there is. Dirge of Doom is specifically part of a two feat combo that is almost necessary at higher difficulties, only really replaced with the level 8 spell Frightful Aspect. That one-two combo is Dazzling Display (which had more use in Kingmaker), and Shatter Defenses. The first feat is a full round action to try and intimidate all enemies around you. The second, which is the real reason you do this even with low charisma / no intimidate characters, makes enemies flatfooted to all your attacks that round should you hit them while they're shaken, which Dirge of Doom or intimidate supplies - and Dirge of Doom gives no saving throw. With how additional attacks work (each attack after the first is at lower and lower attack bonus), this is one of the best ways to ensure your melee characters can actually hit their enemies with more then just one attack. Minagho would probably love to do something, but, as shown, she can't - because of that failure in Kenabres, Baphomet marked her, which atually makes her weaker. Which goes back to why the demons haven't actually overrun the world yet - even demons on the same side will attack and weaken each other over percieved failures. Much like a school getting less funds due to low test scores, the demons get caught in a downward spiral, constantly weakening themselves. Once again, the Crusade has beaten what should've been a complete fail state for it - and it's because of that Mythic Power that you, personally, have (unless you managed to call down that personal favor from Pharasma). Something is definitely tilting the scales in your favor - although Nulkineth was also substantially stronger then he should've been. Whatever was tilting the scales in your favor, your enemies are starting to find ways to use it, too.
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May 12, 2024 19:49
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Doobeedoo posted:I definitely think that Galfrey arriving would 100% be the end of what Minagho was planning, so I doubt it would've been in time. It just feels like the Wardstone thing had a lot of narrative weight as "Thing you really have to stop", so the conclusion of "It was doomed to failure regardless of the PC's actions" seems off with the whatchamacallit. The Angels might have intervened somehow if not for the PC, I think. If you have Cam with you for the Nulkineth fight, she calls him out nicely. “Playing with soldiers? What are you, eight?” I didn’t know it was possible for Irabeth to die this early. Cam & Wendaug both revel in the mythic power burst. Regil is nonchalant, so is Daeran. Demodands are another species of Fiend (Lower Plane denizens) created specifically as creatures of decay and destruction. In Pathfinder lore, the Titans were the first creations of the gods, they grew hateful and jealous of the worship the gods received from mortals, and so they created their own slave race to help indulge their destructive selfish urges. Tarry is one of the lesser types. Stringy, Slimy, Shaggy, and Gristly are worse. They’re all ugly because of the corruption inherent in their creation process. You can find the Chief of the enemy Gargoyle clan if you search the southwest area of the map. It’s not too hard a fight on low difficulty.
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May 12, 2024 19:53
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To answer a question I got on discord: yes, whippoorwills are a real bird and you can listen in the link to what makes a mythic nabasu piss himself. They're common birds in the eastern US, if more often heard than seen due to their crepuscular and occasionally nocturnal schedules. They're the American relatives of the more internet meme famous (relatively speaking) potoo that's graced my avatars for the last few years on SA.
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May 12, 2024 23:01
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Those birds are NOT amused.
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May 12, 2024 23:13
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Whippoorwills are also known in American folklore as pyschopomps whose song acts as a death omen and who are capable of sensing when a soul leaves a body, hence their association with the death goddess here. If you've ever read HP Lovecraft they serve a similar role in the Dunwich Horror.
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May 12, 2024 23:14
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kvx687 posted:Whippoorwills are also known in American folklore as pyschopomps whose song acts as a death omen
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May 13, 2024 06:36
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If we're talking about Nightjars then we can't go past the humble Tawny Frogmouth edit: They're not Psychopomps in Indigenous Australian folklore, that honour goes to the Bush Curlew because it actually sounds like someone being murdered. Meanwhile I don't think I've actually ever heard a Tawny Frogmouth call even though multiple live in my backyard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlMjxMxq-b0 Testekill fucked around with this message at 11:30 on May 13, 2024 |
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May 13, 2024 11:25
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I have been informed that I was mistaken: And that this is in fact a photo of chuckwillswidows, a different American nightjar most readily distinguished from the whippoorwill by their song. For those who might have wondered what growing up in rural Florida is like, click that link and listen to the song: that is what spring and summer nights often sound like in rural Florida. And yes, 'whippoorwill' and 'chuckwillswidow' are in fact the real name for these birds. They're named for their songs. 
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May 13, 2024 14:35
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Cythereal posted:For those who might have wondered what growing up in Florida is like, I'm so sorry.
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May 13, 2024 16:13
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Drakenel posted:I'm so sorry. I still live here.  As Disney put it: it's barbaric, but hey it's home. Because none of my out of state job interviews ever went anywhere and I'm not willing to move several hours away without a solid job offer.
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May 13, 2024 18:17
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Drakenel posted:Poor Irabeth. I kind of spoiled myself on accident about that hidden meter early on and am sort of glad I did. Not that I think I would have behaved differently, mind. Because why would I not be kind and supportive to a PTSD victim? But I made extra sure to check in on her regularly. Yeah I went out of my way to check in with her and be supportive. I had gotten really attached to Irabeth and Anevia by that point in the story and I didn't want anything negative to happen to them.
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May 13, 2024 19:52
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Vargatron posted:Yeah I went out of my way to check in with her and be supportive. I had gotten really attached to Irabeth and Anevia by that point in the story and I didn't want anything negative to happen to them. They are a very nice couple, and count me as another who just went and spoiled myself so they would have a happy ending.
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May 13, 2024 22:46
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Honestly there's not much to worry about or spoil yourself over. Treat Irabeth well and be encouraging. That's sincerely all it takes.
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May 13, 2024 23:05
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ProfessorCirno posted:Honestly there's not much to worry about or spoil yourself over. Treat Irabeth well and be encouraging. That's sincerely all it takes. Sure, I found that out when I looked it up, lol. I was just worried that there was a trigger I could miss on my first run through.
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May 14, 2024 00:33
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Stay of Execution  (Sosiel lowers his head with cold respect. "Thank you for finding the time to listen to me. It regards a personal matter. There was a woman in your squad... She perished covering our retreat and I don't even know her name! But she carried this shield. It once belonged to my brother. Do you happen to know how she came to have it?" "A personal matter? Of course. How silly of me to expect a relevant question." (Regill chuckles. After savoring the expression on Sosiel's face, he continues.) "Her name was Marenta, and she turned out to be a better soldier than I thought. Too bad she still wasn't good enough to survive. She'd transferred to us from the Order of the Nail — the Extirpators chapter, if memory serves me right. I wasn't interested in her reasons for changing chapters, and she never gave any. Such transfers are not forbidden, though they are not encouraged. In any case, she already had the shield when she came to us, and the only way to find out where she got it from is to ask at her former chapter. But the gods only know where they are now, and which demons they are slaughtering!" "Thank you for your answer, Paralictor." (With cold politeness, Sosiel lowers his head and bows before the knight, then turns to you.) "It seems I have reached a dead end." "This isn't the end. You can still find those knights." "Perhaps if the Goddess helps me... But where are they? Where do I even begin to look for them? If only I had a chance to talk to her while she was still alive..." (Sosiel looks away.) "I sound so selfish. She died — and all I talk about is what she could have done for me... But it's not only that! This shield was Trever's treasure. He wouldn't have given it away for no reason. How did this woman get it? Did she deceive Trever? Kill him? Or perhaps the opposite — she meant so much to him that he gave her the shield voluntarily? I keep mulling it over, trying to understand, trying to imagine what happened to my brother. And what role Marenta played in his story... If she was still alive... Maybe I'd have to exact my vengeance for my brother on her. Or maybe we'd sit next to each other and she'd tell me all about their adventures together. She might have become my mortal enemy or a sworn sister. But she's dead. She's just dead. None of that will happen now. Do you understand?" (The cleric's voice trembles.) "Perhaps we'll meet these Extirpators... I shall pray that we do. But I won't hold my breath." (Sosiel shakes his head.) "Let's talk about this later. I need time to gather my thoughts."As I've noted before, I feel that Sosiel is a more interesting character than he's often given credit for by Wrath's fanbase. He came to the Worldwound on a personal mission, not some idealistic crusade even though he's very idealistic indeed, and he's mature enough to weigh his personal issues and purpose in coming here against the wider scope of the war he is now involved in. Regill is not particularly wrong to think of Sosiel as weak in the context of the war, Sosiel is not a man cut out for existential war. But I personally feel that it is a sign of immense personal strength to be weak in such circumstances. Sosiel does not belong here and he knows it, but while he buckles under the pressure and the horrors of war, he does not break (unless you push him to, at any rate). Regill plays at a child's idea of strength, missing a more adult form of maturity and courage.  (Irabeth emerges from behind Anevia's back. Her body is covered in bandages, her hair is threaded with gray, and her voice is weak — it's as if she has aged a decade.) "You still came for me. For us. I..." (The half-orc's voice breaks.) "I thought it was the end." (Anevia takes her wife by the arm, as if fearing she might fall.) "Commander... I admit, I've never believed in miracles. But now I know why the Queen put you in command of this army. Today you did the impossible again, right before our eyes. You pulled your people from a demon's mouth, opened the road to Drezen for us and... You saved my family. Again." "We've suffered some losses, but you managed to keep them to a minimum. Our army is strong and full of resolve." "Yes, many died. And even more will die yet. Today, tomorrow, every day until the end of this war... But every day there's another chance to save someone." (She gives you a carefree smile.) "I hope these would-be crusaders will not easily forget the lesson this night has taught them." "This night has left scars on our soldiers, on their bodies and in their hearts. But it also showed them that the power of demons is not boundless. We can destroy the demons — and we will!" "Fighting the demons on their own territory is better than waiting for them to come to us like they did in Kenabres. We're on the right path. It might not be the easiest climb, but we'll be fine." "Hey, why all the glum faces? We won! Come on!" (She raises her sword to the brightening sky.) "To victory! "I will remember this night for the rest of my life..." (Daeran's shoulders slump, but then he grins.) "I've always wanted to throw a bash in a church — I suppose this counts!" "Commander. The gargoyle carrying me went down when I bit its feet off. Idiot, trying to take a dragon's daughter in the air. I wasn't sure where the army had gone until your display up there."This is the positive version of this conversation, it's possible for this map to go badly if you fail to rescue and rally the crusaders and wipe out much of your crusade army's strength. And yeah, mercenaries you might have like Katarina are just gone for the Lost Chapel and reappear at the end.  "I'll get the survivors back to camp. Let 'em rest up a little while at least. It was a scary night, but we've still got Drezen ahead of us!"Woljiff, however, does not return. He always runs off at this point and there's nothing you can do. Hope he wasn't carrying any good gear!  The game helpfully warns you after the Lost Chapel that you're approaching the point of no return. So let's wrap some things up.  These little shits were hiding behind the combat log in the bottom right corner of the screen and I didn't know they were there until they fired.   The good news is, Minagho is as incompetent as ever and seems to have completely failed to inform her armies about the crusade. I get a free stack of orc barbarians joining the crusade for this.  There's a little side map with a few ghosts and some inconsequential loot.   This was that strength 7 army I was concerned about. Fortunately, another week had gone by so I had fresh reinforcements.   "The soldiers are worried. Everybody can feel it — the decisive battle is coming, the big one, the one we started the crusade for. Some of the lads are getting real jittery, and I was wondering if there was anything I could do to help them. Should I ask the bards to come up with a rousing song? Or maybe throw a little shindig?" "There is no better way to allay fears than to have a good night's sleep on a full stomach. Make sure everyone is well rested and fed before the attack." "You have a point, Commander. I'll do as you say. No soldier will go into battle hungry or weary come morning — or my name isn't Wilcer Garms!"You have a few different responses to Wilcer here, I don't know if they affect anything but something that comes up in every account of military history I've ever read that's looked at the experiences of the common soldiers has emphasized the importance of rest and food, so this is what I picked. I also check in on Irabeth but she has nothing to say about events at the moment. So let's deal with the other problem.  "When the gargoyles attacked the camp, what were you doing with that vial of alchemist's fire near my tent?" "Forgive me, Commander." (She looks at the ground.) "Despite everything, I am still quite unsuited to war. I belong in a library somewhere, not on the battlefield. When those beasts fell from the sky, I panicked. The fire, the screams, the monsters, the chaos... I ran to you because... I could see you knew what to do! As for the vial... That was completely stupid. I just wanted to arm myself with something! But I knew fire wouldn't work on demons! Why did I grab that alchemist's fire, and not something that would actually work? I... I don't know. It's not my first time in the Wound, but I still haven't learned how to fight." "Enough lies, Nurah. It's time to tell me what you're doing in my army."This option only appears after the Lost Chapel, and only if you found the vescavor pheremones in Nurah's tent after Leper's Smile and asked her about it, and then found Nurah during the gargoyle attack and questioned her.  "I put the pheromone-soaked cloth in your pocket. I wanted those hellbugs to eat your smug face off! I was the one who set the tents on fire that night, and I told the gargoyles who to grab. Every day I was in your army, I did all I could to hurt you. Oh, the things I would gladly do to you... and it would be but a thousandth of what you deserve! (She hides her face in her hands.) "When I was eight, I was auctioned off, like livestock. Like livestock, they used a stick to train me to obey. Did the paladins of Mendev help me? Of course not! Even when we passed through a Mendevian city, none of those warriors of good lifted a finger to set me free! Slavers aren't demons, after all! (Nurah looks up and stares at you with eyes red with tears.) "The first time I came to the Wound, I wasn't seeking adventure. My owner dragged me here on a leash. You think the demons bribed me? I was happy to betray him! Without a shadow of a doubt, expecting nothing in return. I poured a sleeping potion into their soup pot, opened the gate and waited for the demons to come and tear them all to pieces — and me along with them! I didn't care! But the demons saw the real me. They made me a cultist. They offered me a chance for revenge."I feel that it's worth considering what Nurah is talking about here. If Yua had pried into her backstory, Nurah would have said she's from the halfling nation of Isger, a realm enslaved by the devil-worshiping empire of Cheilax, and escaped after her owner came to Mendev. Nurah was born into chattel slavery of the worst kind, and saw supposedly good noble people in Mendev ignore her plight because they were too focused on another kind of evil. And to Nurah's eyes, those with the power to help who have done nothing are just as bad as the people actively perpetuating the slavery of her people. The position of Mendev on slavery like this is in some ways actually quite rational. They are a nation locked into an existential war of annihilation with the demons of the Worldwound, even if that war is sometimes just a simmer rather than a boil, and trying to outlaw slavery would run a real risk of provoking an international crisis with one of Golarion's most militarily powerful and expansionist empires when Mendev is in no position of strength itself. There is a pragmatic argument to be made that Mendev's leadership is genuinely acting for the measurable greater good in this circumstance. On the one hand, the pragmatic rationality on display is not morally right by any means. Mendev's been flirting with sliding into despotism and tyranny for a long time - just look at Prelate Hulrun - and has largely been doing so out of pragmatic rationality. The existential threat of the Worldwound is absolutely real, and Mendev hasn't been covering itself in glory with the one war they've already got. On the other hand, Nurah is consumed by revenge and doesn't care that demons are no kinder to slaves than they are to slavers. Demons don't care about freeing slaves any more than anyone else who's ever wronged Nurah, but Nurah is blind to that. Understandably so! Nurah is not being rational about any of this, because she has no reason whatsoever to be rational. She is, in a lot of ways, misguided by her rage and vengeance, especially if the PC is someone like Yua who's going to be heading in a very different direction than what Mendev's leadership would approve of. There is a way to save Nurah, much like there is with Staunton Vhane and even Minagho, but it requires going a little outside the box and having done certain things back in Kenabres.  [Chaotic] [Trickster] "You're right! The crusaders and demons aren't that different. They're all arrogant morons worshiping their smug idols! Wouldn't you like to help me teach them both a lesson?" (Nurah snatches the wand from her belt, ready to cast a spell, but her movements slow as your words sink in, and she freezes in awe and admiration.) "You... Are you serious? I mean, no... You're kidding, right? But... How did someone like you come to lead the crusaders? Just imagine..." (The shock on Nurah's face gives way to vengeful joy.) "Ha ha! By all the gods I've long cursed... How about that! Really, burning is too glorious a death for them. Let's put fool's caps on them all, and let them dance! I don't know how you'll do it, but somehow I know you can! They're waiting for me in Drezen, Commander. I'll go there and tell them some pleasing lies. Let them think they got you! If they don't devour me, we'll meet again in the city. And if they do, then to hell with me! Good luck. If you manage it — oh, we'll have a good laugh at all of them! (Waving her wand, Nurah opens a portal and dives into it.)Appeals to idealism or sentiment don't work on Nurah, fundamentally what she wants is freedom. And a healthy dose of revenge. Yua is a bard, after all, she should know how to read an audience and calibrate her act accordingly. As for someone else in need of a therapist...  "Did you think about what the Hellknight told you?" "Yes..." (Sosiel shakes his head.) "Another dead end. I still know nothing. How could Trever have parted with his shield? I can't imagine!" "You don't know what your brother has endured in this war. Perhaps the person you once knew is gone."Like many of Wrath's characters, Sosiel has a hidden counter running in the background as you influence his behavior. In Sosiel's case, what this counter represents is how he thinks about his brother, and it broadly comes down to how much agency Sosiel wonders if Trever had. Whatever did happen to him, was he proactively driving what happened, or was he in at least some ways a victim of the war, its horrors and stresses that can twist even a noble soul?  "You know, it's not only the Hellknights who told me the truth. Knight Tirabade refused to tell me anything about my brother's fate while I was serving in Kenabres, but after these events, she finally broke her silence. And the things she told me..." (Sosiel shakes his head.) "That he was a good fighter, but a terrible knight, and an utterly worthless paladin. He became more and more cruel as time went on. He started caring more about destroying the enemy than protecting the innocent. He gushed over Prelate Hulrun and his witch hunts... Eventually, the goddess's patience wore thin. When he beat up some poor fellow for blasphemy, Shelyn took away Trever's powers. That was a huge blow for him. He left the city, asking only that his disgrace be kept secret from his family. That was why Irabeth didn't say anything earlier. Brother, my brother... But how? He's always been kind, merciful... Where could this cruelty have come from?"I have never made a secret of my belief, across my various LPs, that I see war as an inherently evil thing, that kills and ruins and spreads suffering. Even the noblest sort of war, against an existential threat bent on annihilation like the Worldwound, can destroy people long before it potentially kills them. Perhaps that's why Sosiel's character and story resonate so strongly with me.   Meanwhile, Ageboya breaks through Drezen's outer fortifications. But there's one other person in this army in urgent need of therapy whose issues need to be attended to this update.  [Knowledge: Arcana 10] (...tries to understand what's going on)This scene has a random chance of occurring when you rest in Act 2, and the demon mythic theme plays when it does happen.  [Perception 17] (...stares intently at the ghostly figure)Yeah, this is not a good thing.  (...uses every effort to suppress the tangle of rage in her soul, which the mysterious power has latched on to.)This is extremely not a good thing.  And on that cheery note, the stage is now set for the siege of Drezen. Until next time. The Crimson Path (this update) Gargoyles 4 Ghosts 3 Babau Hordes 25 Cultist Platoons 107 Derakni Throngs 5 Dretch Hordes 29 Gargoyle Hordes 10 Ghoul Hordes 62 Minotaur Troops 96 Skeleton Hordes 28 Vescavor Swarms 5 Vrock Throngs 3
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May 14, 2024 14:54
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Huh. I admit I did not know of that path for Nurah. Well, this is why LPs are fun. Get to discover new things that I wouldn't normally have come across.
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May 14, 2024 15:02
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Nurah is an interesting character with very understandable motivations, but you really do have to wonder about the interview process for being in the leadership of the Crusade if "former slave of crusader who mysteriously died but she turned up all fine" didn't raise any red flags.
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May 14, 2024 16:10
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Capfalcon posted:Nurah is an interesting character with very understandable motivations, but you really do have to wonder about the interview process for being in the leadership of the Crusade if "former slave of crusader who mysteriously died but she turned up all fine" didn't raise any red flags. the thing about fighting demons is a lot of people mysteriously die
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May 14, 2024 16:40
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Yeah I think the interview process is something along the lines of 'can you hold a weapon? Do you sort of know which way to point it? You're in.'
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May 14, 2024 17:35
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Black Robe posted:Yeah I think the interview process is something along the lines of 'can you hold a weapon? Do you sort of know which way to point it? You're in.' Pretty sure it's just "are you sure you want to join the crusade?". I don't think Nurah and Horgus pass the weapon test and I'm sure the crusade needs non-combatants like blacksmiths, cooks, non-combat healers, etc.
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May 14, 2024 17:58
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Cythereal posted:Regill plays at a child's idea of strength, missing a more adult form of maturity and courage. Note that Regill is not just being utilitarian with Sosiel here. He's specifically being a dick to him because he doesn't like him, and enjoying it. This is exactly the kind of emotional reaction he'd be first to criticize in someone else. This is why Regill is lawful evil rather than lawful neutral, because his devotion even to his own lovely creed is tainted by his own desires, much as he wouldn't want to admit it. Also, just as a reminder, the Order of the Nail is the one that subdues the Savage Hordes in the name of Civilization. Not exactly the best set of dudes. Cythereal posted:
I give Daeran's character a lot of poo poo, so I would just like to note that his line here is neither stupid nor evil. More a kind of gallows humor. Almost like he's a person or something. Cythereal posted:You have a few different responses to Wilcer here, I don't know if they affect anything but something that comes up in every account of military history I've ever read that's looked at the experiences of the common soldiers has emphasized the importance of rest and food, so this is what I picked. Each one of them gives a different buff to your armies. I think that one is an HP bonus. A couple of previous conversations with him also give buffs or extra soldiers. I believe all the buffs expire after the attack on Drezen. Cythereal posted:This option only appears after the Lost Chapel, and only if you found the vescavor pheremones in Nurah's tent after Leper's Smile and asked her about it, and then found Nurah during the gargoyle attack and questioned her. So, yeah, your earlier detective work isn't pointless, because it leads to this conversation here, but it still feels like it's happening too late. At least they only make you carry the Idiot Ball for a little while rather than through half the game.
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May 14, 2024 18:23
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