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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
it does seem like that's a sop to realism: if there are too many things that a family can do "on their own" without being told to explicitly do so by the player, or can be done by them without setting up a specific production building and instruction for it, it takes away things for the player to do and interact with, particularly at a stage of a game where the management would be the most critical and/or compelling

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Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


I have to admit that kid me would have loved that though, like having a little virtual ant colony to just stare at.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

I'd love a game that's the opposite of a management game

You set certain starting conditions and rules and the game basically plays itself and you get to watch what emerges

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
The children yearn for Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim

Megamissen
Jul 19, 2022

any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

gradenko_2000 posted:

The children yearn for Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim

i want someone to make Towns but not abandon it mid development

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

gradenko_2000 posted:

it does seem like that's a sop to realism: if there are too many things that a family can do "on their own" without being told to explicitly do so by the player, or can be done by them without setting up a specific production building and instruction for it, it takes away things for the player to do and interact with, particularly at a stage of a game where the management would be the most critical and/or compelling

I think it's workable. Victoria 3 actually does something similar. Your subsistence farmers have home workshops that make small amounts of a large variety of goods. Your people will survive and even have some stuff even if you don't do anything. However the game still works because you want your people to thrive (and eventually defeat perfidious Albion). The game will even automatically build some factories for you.

The problem I have with a lot of town builders is that a large amount of the difficulty is front-loaded. You start out with a small group that is living in a tent and they will die without your intervention. You've got to build up a functional village fast from nothing. This isn't actually a big deal because the average town-builder fan is a giant nerd who doesn't mind spending time reading building descriptions, tutorials, but it still seems wrong from a game dev perspective. Generally games should start out easy and present you with new challenges as they go on. I'm thinking you start with your villagers in some simple huts. They meet own their basic needs by themselves but not much else. They're desperately poor, sickly, and unhappy. It's basically your job to fix this which you do through doing normal townbuilder things. By doing this it opens up possibilities for difficulty and complexity, since setting up your village doesn't need to be made simple enough that a first time player can do it before all their villagers die.

I should say I've got no real problem with what the Manor Lords devs chose to focus on, I'm just spitballing. It's very easy to criticize and come up with different ideas without having to do the actual hard work of implementation. Criticizing without risking anything is easy, it's fun, and I will continue to do so.

Endman posted:

I have to admit that kid me would have loved that though, like having a little virtual ant colony to just stare at.

I wish there was a spiritual successor to SimAnt. Empires of the Undergrowth turned into an RTS.

gradenko_2000 posted:

The children yearn for Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim

Exactly.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
I liked Against the Storm's solution of just making the town temporary so that you're constantly doing the fun early stage.

And yeah, Empires of the Undergrowth being more of a straight RTS was a bit of a bummer, even if I still kind of like it.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

BearsBearsBears posted:

I'm thinking you start with your villagers in some simple huts. They meet own their basic needs by themselves but not much else. They're desperately poor, sickly, and unhappy. It's basically your job to fix this which you do through doing normal townbuilder things. By doing this it opens up possibilities for difficulty and complexity, since setting up your village doesn't need to be made simple enough that a first time player can do it before all their villagers die.

oh this I definitely like - I agree that far too many city-builders start you off with an absolute blank slate - not only would the presence of an existing settlement introduce a different dynamic in how the game builds itself up, it's also arguably more realistic in most contexts.

like, I can maybe understand devs being apprehensive about players feeling like they're "locked-in" to a particular set-up if you began a Cities Skylines scenario with a city of 300 people, but that's how towns turn into cities!

Lin-Manuel Turtle
Jul 12, 2023

Yesterday, I announced that, as Sovereign, I’ll establish a healing potion subsidy for temple of Agrela initiates who slay at least three minotaurs near a Gnome Hovel.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Lin-Manuel Turtle posted:

Yesterday, I announced that, as Sovereign, I’ll establish a healing potion subsidy for temple of Agrela initiates who slay at least three minotaurs near a Gnome Hovel.

more gold, your majesty!

Lin-Manuel Turtle
Jul 12, 2023

gradenko_2000 posted:

more gold, your majesty!



I’m Melting.….

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Endman posted:

I should add that I'm extremely impressed with the game so far. It gives me big Settlers feelings, which is a win in itself; I adored those games.

Really what prevents it from being a good simulation of medieval life is the deep level of control it gives you over your people, even stretching to choosing what they do with their back yards, but you obviously want that level of control in a game so that you can make your idea of a perfect medieval village. The alternative would also require a level of AI programming that is beyond most big studios, let alone a single developer.

The lives of real country folk in medieval England at least, was often characterised by a distance from authority that contrasts with a system of law and punishment that often appears draconian to us in the modern age. The King's power may have been almost absolute and he could punish you horrendously if you crossed him, but the King was also very far away if you're some random Yorkshire peasant. Or at least it was very far away until his army rocked up on its way to Scotland and stole all your crops, ate all your preserves, pinched your best oxen and gave you nothing but a promissory note with some vague guarantee of payment at an unspecified date in the future.

yeah but that sort of autonomy isn't conducive to gameplay.

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


I’m remembering how awful wizards in Majesty were for the first few levels before they became insane teleporting murder monsters

What an incredible game

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Big Paradox sale this weekend

I picked up the full EU4 DLC collection and the CK3 base game and was playing the latter this morning

It's a pretty chill game - I did about 10 years and have just been constructing buildings in my holdings to increase my taxes and the county's development levels

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Lin-Manuel Turtle posted:

I’m Melting.….





Another day, Krypta!

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

sullat posted:



Another day, Krypta!



AT LAST!!!

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

gradenko_2000 posted:

Big Paradox sale this weekend

I picked up the full EU4 DLC collection and the CK3 base game and was playing the latter this morning

It's a pretty chill game - I did about 10 years and have just been constructing buildings in my holdings to increase my taxes and the county's development levels

see, that's how they get you, it starts out all chill as you try to learn the game properly but before long you'll find yourself playing eugenics and satanism simulator 3

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
the unique Scandinavian Elective succession law that Scandinavian cultures get is so insanely busted that there’s no reason to use anything else if you can get it, and the Norse also get a huge bonus to hybridizing with other cultures, so lately my favorite play has been playing as Hasteinn, immediately doing a Viking invasion of Tunisia, converting to Islam, and hybridizing my culture with the locals

Technically you could do this anywhere to get the busted succession law in any place or context you like

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes
Also they fixed the Mongol A.I/breakup systems, so now the A.I mongol empire consistently conquers a huge portion of the map and breaks up into successor states without too much border gore
you can get something like this:

AmyL
Aug 8, 2013


Black Thursday was a disaster, plain and simple.
We lost too many good people, too many planes.
We can't let that kind of tragedy happen again.

Cerebral Bore posted:

see, that's how they get you, it starts out all chill as you try to learn the game properly but before long you'll find yourself playing eugenics and satanism simulator 3

But enough about gradenko becoming a US progressive in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Cerebral Bore posted:

see, that's how they get you, it starts out all chill as you try to learn the game properly but before long you'll find yourself playing eugenics and satanism simulator 3

They finally added satanism?

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

thinking about getting really into eu iv

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

AnimeIsTrash posted:

thinking about getting really into eu iv

Do it!

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

AnimeIsTrash posted:

thinking about getting really into eu iv

what are the dlc i should buy for this game? the last paradox game i played was ck2 @_@

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Pay for the subscription and get all of them.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

AnimeIsTrash posted:

what are the dlc i should buy for this game? the last paradox game i played was ck2 @_@

Art of War
Mandate of Heaven
Cradle of Civilization
Cossacks

Everything else is optional depending on whether you want to play the country covered by the dlc

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Wait for EU5.

Nosfereefer
Jun 15, 2011

IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM
just play eu3

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
if you want to play a paradox game with eighty dlcs just pirate it, they usually come with everything

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

atelier morgan posted:

if you want to play a paradox game with eighty dlcs just pirate it, they usually come with everything

Paradox should make it so that using the monthly subscription gives you ParadoxBux that you can buy expansions with. Just do a full lease-to-own model.

Anybody got numbers on how many people actually use the monthly subscriptions? I want to know if I should email them this idea.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 13:56 on May 12, 2024

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
some quick thoughts after an afternoon of Total War Rome 2:

- I like that the autoresolve button has a preview of what the results will likely be, and that you can back out of it, so you can check if a fight is going to be close enough to warrant manual control

- I like how the manual battles are responsive enough that you can really start playing around with actual battle tactics now. I was able to pull off a crushing victory in a fight that autoresolve was saying was hopeless by deploying all my velites to one flank and rolling up the line from left to right.

- there is no short campaign! you gotta wade into the deep end of the pool

- there is no three-way Roman faction split-up! you gotta manage the whole empire, from all directions

- oh god everything is on fire help the Etruscans and the Spartans and the Ligurians and rebelling slaves are everywhere AAAAHHHHHHHHH

- how the gently caress does this game still have a bug where you can't use the Quit to Desktop option because it'll never turn off the game properly?

Megamissen
Jul 19, 2022

any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

gradenko_2000 posted:

some quick thoughts after an afternoon of Total War Rome 2:

- I like that the autoresolve button has a preview of what the results will likely be, and that you can back out of it, so you can check if a fight is going to be close enough to warrant manual control

does it still have the issue where if you have a low number of elite cavalry units they take disproporionate casualites?

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Megamissen posted:

does it still have the issue where if you have a low number of elite cavalry units they take disproporionate casualites?

Yeah I had kind of an annoying time as Epirus because easy fights would inexplicably murder 90% of my rare elephants and so I had to manually fight every little garrison

gradenko_2000 posted:


- there is no short campaign! you gotta wade into the deep end of the pool


The good news is that there are still short victory conditions, the bad news is that they're still ludicrously long

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
its so cool that the warhammer game is now forcing me to do things like deploy artillery in defilade positions now so I my rocket batteries can do crossfire.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Tankbuster posted:

its so cool that the warhammer game is now forcing me to do things like deploy artillery in defilade positions now so I my rocket batteries can do crossfire.

I like to use Steam Tanks, Rocket Artillery, and Handgunners for a Red Army themed army.

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

some quick thoughts after an afternoon of Total War Rome 2:

- I like that the autoresolve button has a preview of what the results will likely be, and that you can back out of it, so you can check if a fight is going to be close enough to warrant manual control

The Warhammer games will do this if you hover over the auto-resolve button (units will glow red if they are expected to be wiped out). Though for the timeframe it came out, it is awesome Rome 2 had it. I don't remember if Shogun 2 ever did...I doubt it.

CN CREW-VESSEL
Feb 1, 2024

敌人磨刀我们也磨刀
New dev blog for the space navy game made by the naval weapons officer, the new UI is awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=371mP5886Mc

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Tankbuster posted:

its so cool that the warhammer game is now forcing me to do things like deploy artillery in defilade positions now so I my rocket batteries can do crossfire.

I really like TW:WH cuz you are forced to adapt your armies to different opponents

like the empire army you use to crush chaos will get slaughtered by dark elves and vice-versa

unlike in R:TW where spamming legionary cohorts will beat absolutely everything

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Lin-Manuel Turtle posted:

Yesterday, I announced that, as Sovereign, I’ll establish a healing potion subsidy for temple of Agrela initiates who slay at least three minotaurs near a Gnome Hovel.

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my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
This was sent to me, and I couldn't resist reposting it.

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