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I guess I just don't entirely understand what makes this different from just pressing Square, Square, Square for your main combo in a game like FF16 or FF7 Rebirth. I mean clearly there's a difference for people that I'm not grasping. But for me, I didn't find myself wishing that I had to go Square, Triangle, Circle when I wanted to do a basic sword combo with Cloud in FF7R, y'know? Am I just wildly off-base comparing to a different genre? Eh, probably.
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May 16, 2024 15:16
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Ibram Gaunt posted:You cannot have PVP style auto combo be a baseline thing, even optionally because you then have to balance raids around there being significently less cognitive load on rotation, which means people who don't want to use it are punished with a much harder game as mechanics need to become more and more complex to compensate. It's like how WoW raids are designed around everyone using DBM (which is bad but you can never put the genie back in the bottle) I think it's good to combine redundant buttons like Arcane Circle - > whatever the damage ability is called though. My big question there is: Why is that a negative? If the entire point of wanting buttons to be separate to increase your engagement and make playing it harder, isn't it making things harder a good thing?
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May 16, 2024 15:17
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Ibram Gaunt posted:You cannot have PVP style auto combo be a baseline thing, even optionally because you then have to balance raids around there being significently less cognitive load on rotation, which means people who don't want to use it are punished with a much harder game as mechanics need to become more and more complex to compensate. It's like how WoW raids are designed around everyone using DBM (which is bad but you can never put the genie back in the bottle) I think it's good to combine redundant buttons like Arcane Circle - > whatever the damage ability is called though.
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May 16, 2024 15:18
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I know I'm behind but Scholar transforming was the hugest surprise to me and I'm hype as hell about it. Also as an AST main, awesome I get to play a new job again 
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May 16, 2024 15:18
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Craptacular! posted:They also say that people like their housing implementation. If they're listening to the playerbase like they claim they know this is something some people (and not everyone) wants.? I don't think breaking into conspiracy thinking is making the point you want it to in this attempt to dismiss the devs design decisions that you claimed were another poster just talking out their rear end. Please just chill
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May 16, 2024 15:18
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ImpAtom posted:My big question there is: Why is that a negative? If the entire point of wanting buttons to be separate to increase your engagement and make playing it harder, isn't it making things harder a good thing? If I might argue for the other side from the one I just did for a moment: I can understand wanting more complexity in your job's gameplay (even if it means less in the fight mechanics) because it means the experience of playing different jobs is more distinct. That said I also don't really know if I think 1-2-3 versus 1-1-1 is the most important axis for that at all.
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May 16, 2024 15:18
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ImpAtom posted:My big question there is: Why is that a negative? If the entire point of wanting buttons to be separate to increase your engagement and make playing it harder, isn't it making things harder a good thing? It's bad when it's two separate tracks. You need to either make it the new normal and not have any sort of option, or not have it be a thing. You can't have it be optional. I think it would suck major rear end if you just made everyone have 4 buttons or whatever forever but it'd work within the confines of wanting to change how the game is designed to fit this new paradigm. But that goes directly against what YoshiP has said in the past which is why I don't think it'll happen. That's all.
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May 16, 2024 15:18
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Oxyclean posted:i think "cognitive load" factor of pressing 1-2-3 vs pressing 1-1-1 is overstated. If anything, you could argue that both have upsides, because after I hit shift+3 for the final melee piece of my RDM combo, I know it's time to hit a flare/holy. Where as I have to keep track of how many times I would be hitting Shift+1. Like you could just as easily do "1-1-1-1" and waste a GCD in the same way you can gently caress up your 1-2-3. This is pretty much where I stand because that's how my brain works. 1-1-1 would be a cognitive load increase for me lol
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May 16, 2024 15:22
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Oxyclean posted:i think "cognitive load" factor of pressing 1-2-3 vs pressing 1-1-1 is overstated. If anything, you could argue that both have upsides, because after I hit shift+3 for the final melee piece of my RDM combo, I know it's time to hit a flare/holy. Where as I have to keep track of how many times I would be hitting Shift+1. Like you could just as easily do "1-1-1-1" and waste a GCD in the same way you can gently caress up your 1-2-3. Wouldn't the icons on the job bar kind of alleviate that? Ibram Gaunt posted:It's bad when it's two separate tracks. You need to either make it the new normal and not have any sort of option, or not have it be a thing. You can't have it be optional. I think it would suck major rear end if you just made everyone have 4 buttons or whatever forever but it'd work within the confines of wanting to change how the game is designed to fit this new paradigm. There already are two separate tracks though. Like as someone pointed out earlier there's already a mod that does this on PC. There's a lot of things on PC which make playing on PC easier than on console for people who activate them and they mentioned a while back they wanted to minimize the need for those mods and were looking at the most popular ones, which is part of why they've been adding official versions of so many things.
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May 16, 2024 15:22
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For comparison to another MMO, I don't think GW2 is less complex because basic attack combos are consolidated to the 1 button. In fact, you can set it to just be an autoattack so you only have to press it once per target.ImpAtom posted:Wouldn't the icons on the job bar kind of alleviate that? Only if you're looking at the job bar. If you're used to just going by feel then it would confuse things. Of course there's nothing stopping you from just binding the combo on three buttons so you can keep hitting 1-2-3 if it helps you keep track.
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May 16, 2024 15:23
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ImpAtom posted:50742 They do not balance around the autocombo addon though. I don't count it because it is not an official thing. They don't balance the game around the fact that people use xivalexander either.
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May 16, 2024 15:23
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Come on man, "there's a mod" is different from the devs balancing around it It's like arguing the mechanics should be more complicated because Cactbot exists
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May 16, 2024 15:24
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I don't think condensing 1-2-3 combos into a single button reduces cognitive load in any way. Condensing them all into one action would make me have to think more and I'd worry about forgetting what step of a combo I'm on in-between weaving.
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May 16, 2024 15:24
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Oxyclean posted:i think "cognitive load" factor of pressing 1-2-3 vs pressing 1-1-1 is overstated. If anything, you could argue that both have upsides, because after I hit shift+3 for the final melee piece of my RDM combo, I know it's time to hit a flare/holy. Where as I have to keep track of how many times I would be hitting Shift+1. Like you could just as easily do "1-1-1-1" and waste a GCD in the same way you can gently caress up your 1-2-3. This is like zoomhack vs ultrawide again, except it's combo VS guy who can afford a MMO mouse. ZenMasterBullshit posted:I don't think breaking into conspiracy thinking is making the point you want it to in this attempt to dismiss the devs design decisions that you claimed were another poster just talking out their rear end. Please just chill If I seem like I'm flaming anyone, I'm not trying to. It's more my lack of faith in anything that the devs said publicly (particularly if it was years removed ago) being much more than spin. Goons don't understand they're talking to someone who complains about this in various avenues a lot, and would quit and leave without extensive combo mods already. Sorry if I come off as grumpy but they're trying debate me over my optimism over what is the single most important development of the new expansion to me personally. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 15:27 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 15:25
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Arist posted:
Which I am very happy they do not because that is what WoW did and the entire game had to be warped around it.
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May 16, 2024 15:25
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Did they say what the Landscape buff actually does for the party?
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May 16, 2024 15:26
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gay devil posted:I don't think condensing 1-2-3 combos into a single button reduces cognitive load in any way. Condensing them all into one action would make me have to think more and I'd worry about forgetting what step of a combo I'm on in-between weaving. Honestly I think maybe it's a wash? By condensing the 1-2-3 combo to one button, you reduce the chances of potentially fatfingering and breaking your combo, but you also make it harder to keep track of where in your combo you are if you're used to going by muscle memory. Which is why it's an optional feature, I suppose. Pick the one that makes the most sense for your brain. I don't know if I think either one is objectively harder or easier, and I bet different people will find each approach more comfortable.
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May 16, 2024 15:27
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Ibram Gaunt posted:They do not balance around the autocombo addon though. I don't count it because it is not an official thing. They don't balance the game around the fact that people use xivalexander either. That is the point I was making. This exists. They don't design around it, Because they don't design around it, it makes content easier for people who use it. Unless you break the mod (which I'm not even sure is possible) it is going to exist. At that point you're still having the two tracks, it is just that one isn't available to most of the player base. (Breaking the mod would also be fine if possible but I honestly have no idea how it works so maybe that is impossible.) From what I've heard in other places, even a lot of the stuff they're supposedly adding (I have no idea how accurate this is) is stuff the mod already did. (spoiled for potential mechanic things?) Like making Bizzard/Fire one button that changes based on stance. There's absolutely plenty of indication they've at least been somewhat aware of what popular things people use. I'm honestly going to keep using 1-2-3 if that is what they do because muscle memory is a bitch, but I also mostly play healer so "Press one button over and over again" isn't actually a huge change for my main so kind of a moot point.
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May 16, 2024 15:28
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Harrow posted:For comparison to another MMO, I don't think GW2 is less complex because basic attack combos are consolidated to the 1 button. In fact, you can set it to just be an autoattack so you only have to press it once per target. GW2 combat is insanely boring though and a chunk of that is it autocomboing. To your previous post, the difference between 111 and squarex3 is that the games aren't the same genre and aren't asking the same thing of me or delivering cool dopamine in the same way. There's a lot of time spent in ff14 just standing around doing your rotation and mastery in this game is optimizing your uptime in the face of mechanics. In ff16 I need to be constantly on the lookout for dodging, using launchers and maintaining combo's and all that jazz. It's also not rote the way ff14 encounters are so there's an amount of improvisation that doesn't exist (mostly) in ff14. Edit: Like, I do mess up the 123 combo's probably a couple of times a week. I would never do this on a 1-button combo. Though this is probably to some degree rpr main brain. I've only got the 1 combo and nothing breaks it other than me fat-fingering it or forgetting where I was in the combo to begin with. 111 might end up being more load on something like samurai maybe. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 15:37 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 15:30
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Failboattootoot posted:GW2 combat is insanely boring though and a chunk of that is it autocomboing. See I don't really agree with that about GW2, but like I said in my last post, I think it's just something that different people will prefer different things on. I expect some people would find 1-1-1 more difficult to keep track of than 1-2-3, for example, because you can't just go by feel. Your second paragraph does make sense to me--the rote/scripted nature of the encounters is something I hadn't really factored in.
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May 16, 2024 15:32
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Oxyclean posted:i think "cognitive load" factor of pressing 1-2-3 vs pressing 1-1-1 is overstated. If anything, you could argue that both have upsides, because after I hit shift+3 for the final melee piece of my RDM combo, I know it's time to hit a flare/holy. Where as I have to keep track of how many times I would be hitting Shift+1. Like you could just as easily do "1-1-1-1" and waste a GCD in the same way you can gently caress up your 1-2-3. Fun fact: They detached Enkindle Bahamut from Summon Bahamut and slapped it on a unique binding not because they wanted to increase cognitive load, but because too many people double-tapped and blew Enkindle too early. It was changed, because someone forgot to tell them it was intended difficulty and put up with it, I guess. That's one of those I use autocombo to restore to how it used to be.
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May 16, 2024 15:33
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Harrow posted:I guess I just don't entirely understand what makes this different from just pressing Square, Square, Square for your main combo in a game like FF16 or FF7 Rebirth. I mean clearly there's a difference for people that I'm not grasping. But for me, I didn't find myself wishing that I had to go Square, Triangle, Circle when I wanted to do a basic sword combo with Cloud in FF7R, y'know? I mean you say this but also lots of action games and action rpgs also are like if you wanna do a sword combo you go square, square, square, but sometimes you want to do this OTHER sword combo which is square, triangle, triangle. I dunno I always felt like this argument only made sense for tanks which literally just do 1-2-3 and some other poo poo but all the melees I've played have little branches off their main combo that make having a single button combo make little sense especially if there's genuinely situations where you're going to do poo poo out of order, like Monk. Even something as super simple as Ninja's melee combo has two different 3rd hits which means you're likely only paring 4 buttons down to like 3, or maybe 2 if you make aeolian just the standard 3rd hit, and armor crush a different button, and now I have to mentally keep track of which step of the combo I'm on outside of just which button I pushed last which is its own weird cognitive load. Did I hit combo once or twice recently? Then even if we just don't do it for all the classes that have more complex melee combos we now just have this weird line in the sand drawn between classes that are technically doing the same thing sort of but now just have different button systems going on for no apparent reason. Not undoable just kind of awkward and at a point it's like why are we fuckin bothering with this it's 1-2-3 just push the buttons it's not that hard.
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May 16, 2024 15:36
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I'm able to take in all the big loads. Maybe I'm built different
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May 16, 2024 15:40
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Ibram Gaunt posted:They do not balance around the autocombo addon though. I don't count it because it is not an official thing. They don't balance the game around the fact that people use xivalexander either. They don't balance around this thing either but it exists and they make money off it. Letting people reducing bindings if they're using an interface that isn't as convenient isn't the death knell to the game that it's been said to be, especially since you have to keep track of where you are, not double tap too much (as in the bahamut example I mentioned earlier), etc. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 15:46 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 15:42
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I do hope they say something cool about Sage because White Mage appearing to get Icarus appears painful.
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May 16, 2024 15:43
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goblin week posted:I'm able to take in all the big loads. Maybe I'm built different No cognitive load refused
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May 16, 2024 15:44
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the cognitive load of my posts is low
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May 16, 2024 15:46
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Craptacular! posted:They don't balance around this thing either but it exists and they make money off it. I do own this as well as two MMO mice. I gotta say I think it's just its own different kind of cognitive load. I spent four hours the other day merrily tweaking my configuration and UI to accommodate it.
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May 16, 2024 15:47
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ImpAtom posted:I do hope they say something cool about Sage because White Mage appearing to get Icarus appears painful. Seeing Sages dash forward with wings when I get big Temperance wings I can't dash with was also painful 
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May 16, 2024 15:47
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ASTRODYNE DEAD
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May 16, 2024 15:49
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gay devil posted:Seeing Sages dash forward with wings when I get big Temperance wings I can't dash with was also painful Look, Summoner stole Hi-Nu Gundam and White Mage is taking Icarus, give me soooomething.
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May 16, 2024 15:49
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Looks like the people who want AST cards do something other than damage again AND the people who want AST to be less random might be happy now?
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May 16, 2024 15:49
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Just saw the job action video and they gave MCH exactly what it needed: MORE GUNS    Looks like possible upgrades to Heat Blast, Gauss Round, Ricochet, and a second hit off Chain Saw. That final attack is giving Mask vibes:  e: it's funny that they just tossed Flamethrower in for a couple ticks of damage at the start. They can't figure out what to do with it but it's too cool to just delete entirely. DizzyBum fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 15:49
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40 second cd swiftcast is going to be so nice.
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May 16, 2024 15:52
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lmao at "Eukrasian Dyskrasia"
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May 16, 2024 15:55
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Tamba posted:For Sage, I could see 3 new things in the trailer: - The first one was not mentioned - The second one is AoE Kardia - The third one is Eukrasian Dyskrasia, and AoE DoT. Might not actually be OGCD, but just have the short GCD of the other Eukrasia actions - Soteria cooldown reduced
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May 16, 2024 15:56
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I really am very very happy with how RDM and GNB are looking. I know some people get annoyed at Continuation with GNB but god drat I can't get enough of it, and letting me Continuation off of Fated Circle is exactly what I wanted from Dawntrail. Add to that the super sick combo stemming off of Bloodfest (which I still think should've been called "Draw & Junction" like the PvP version ) is a nice bonus.Meanwhile RDM's oGCDs look sick and lean into the rose aesthetic, I'm assuming I saw Jolt III and Impact II, and Moulinet looks like it has a combo now. Perfect. No notes. Also the level 100 RDM gear looks incredible and might be one of my favorite-looking sets they've ever made for this game. I would very much enjoy wearing that for whatever climactic scenes happen at the end of Dawntrail. Now to decide if I want to stick with GNB heading into Dawntrail or throw myself into the masses of caster DPS with RDM... Though IIRC wasn't it pretty easy to level two jobs with the EXP from Endwalker's MSQ if you were also doing roulettes? Maybe that'll be the case again. I can just do roulettes and trials on GNB and give the majority of the MSQ EXP to RDM, maybe. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:58 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 15:56
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Sage dug up Aero 3 from the grave
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May 16, 2024 15:56
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I swear if freecure and shield bash somehow survive into another expansion.
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May 16, 2024 15:58
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Rosalind posted:I swear if freecure and shield bash somehow survive into another expansion. Flamethrower has already confirmed to have survived so probably.
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