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no force no masters
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Jan 23, 2020 02:02
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creon was right don't bury rebels
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Jan 23, 2020 02:05
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I'd like to talk more about why Kreia was right
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Jan 23, 2020 02:21
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She was.
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Jan 23, 2020 02:41
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kreia is interesting but ultimately a randian rear end in a top hat
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Jan 23, 2020 02:46
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Kreia berated me for giving money to a hobo, and then the game showed that hobo getting mugged by hobos, thus validating her libertarian philosophy
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Jan 23, 2020 03:00
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Flavius Aetass posted:creon was right
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Jan 23, 2020 03:43
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Hands down the most irritating video game charterer I've come across. I left her in the ship in the naive hope that'd I wouldn't need to listen to her near endless nihilistic pontifications, but she butted in any way. Yes, Chris Avellone, we get it. You hate Star Wars and you hate the Jedi
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Jan 23, 2020 03:46
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KotOR 2 was cool because the main bad guys are a lich and a vampire because the dude writing it can only express himself in D&D tropes.
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Jan 23, 2020 06:52
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Sleeveless posted:KotOR 2 was cool because the main bad guys are a lich and a vampire because the dude writing it can only express himself in D&D tropes. recycling tropes is the cornerstone of star wars
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Jan 23, 2020 07:18
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Small Gay Planet posted:Kreia berated me for giving money to a hobo, and then the game showed that hobo getting mugged by hobos, thus validating her libertarian philosophy She also berates you if you don't give the hobo money. She hates thoguhtless light/dark decisions, if you can justify your decision afterwards she's satisfied.
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Jan 23, 2020 08:26
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StashAugustine posted:kreia is interesting but ultimately a randian rear end in a top hat I mean yeah she is the ultimate villain in the game.
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Jan 23, 2020 08:34
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what did kreia want you to do again?
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Jan 23, 2020 09:06
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Smirking_Serpent posted:what did kreia want you to do again? be a cool person that she could flaunt at the jedi masters.
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Jan 23, 2020 09:10
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Smirking_Serpent posted:what did kreia want you to do again? she wanted you to become the galaxy's greatest bug catcher of all time and by god, she was right
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Jan 23, 2020 09:12
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I promised to help both the good guys and bad guys on dantooine and Kreia was impressed by my skill at manipulating both sides but really I was just being an indecisive prick
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Jan 23, 2020 09:39
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AU where Kreia was right and midichlorians go full Parasite Eve and just start turning people, animals, and inanimate objects that have been around long enough to accumulate a sufficient amount of organi-originating dust go full cronenberg monstrosity
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Jan 23, 2020 10:18
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Small Gay Planet posted:Kreia berated me for giving money to a hobo, and then the game showed that hobo getting mugged by hobos, thus validating her libertarian philosophy to be fair, this is shown with her narration. It doesn't necessarily happen in game. You don't have to follow her nietzschean ideology in any case I tried to be her little pet and seriously follow her advice and what she would like every time and I ended up as a dark-sider. Big surprise. Going dark and saving the council is probably kreia's favorite way to play the game.
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Jan 23, 2020 11:04
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StashAugustine posted:kreia is interesting but ultimately a randian rear end in a top hat Zane fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 11:36
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Stairmaster posted:recycling tropes is the cornerstone of star wars Xaris posted:
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Jan 23, 2020 12:00
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Even in a pre-YouTube world, "the morals and philosophy of a media franchise for children is actually kind of hosed up and impractical if you think about it" was already an incredibly trite observation to make let alone serve as the basis for a 50 hour RPG. I think KotOR 2 exists in the same space as Metal Gear Solid 2 and Silent Hill 2 where if you were a teenager or young adult who mostly just plays video games it was your first introduction to basic postmodern and literary concepts and since they were made back when games being meta was a novelty it hit much harder through sheer surprise and novelty. I do have to give it credit for doing Undertale's twist of your experience points not being an abstract gaming concept but your character literally getting more powerful from the lives they snuffed out a decade before Undertale came out, at least.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:03
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Sleeveless posted:the kind of tedious psuedo-intellectual dismissiveness that got you kicked out of arguably the worst subforum on the site
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Jan 23, 2020 12:12
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Sleeveless posted:Even in a pre-YouTube world, "the morals and philosophy of a media franchise for children is actually kind of hosed up and impractical if you think about it" was already an incredibly trite observation to make let alone serve as the basis for a 50 hour RPG. I think KotOR 2 exists in the same space as Metal Gear Solid 2 and Silent Hill 2 where if you were a teenager or young adult who mostly just plays video games it was your first introduction to basic postmodern and literary concepts and since they were made back when games being meta was a novelty it hit much harder through sheer surprise and novelty. We're talking Star Wars here. Even a tenuous relationship with postmoderism and metatextuality makes KOTOR II the loving Tristram Shandy of the franchise if we're comparing it to the rest of the slop.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:24
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star wars invented the blockbuster multimedia franchise almost entirely by accident it's never going to be high art unless someone picks up the star wars football and goes completely high concept apeshit with it. it's dumb. star wars is dumb. it has always been dumb. it's been dumb since before most of us were even born. things can be dumb and ridiculous and not hold up to the sophistic masturbation that is the majority of literary criticism at this point and still be fine
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Jan 23, 2020 12:30
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this is the part where i admit i can't tell the difference between contemporary literary criticism and the wikia admin who was convinced that the entire silent hill franchise was a metaphor for the evils of circumcision, other than a veneer of respectability in the case of the former because it's done by people who presumably know how to dress themselves and couch their headcanons in a more presentable format than 'insane screeds posted on the internet'
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Jan 23, 2020 12:34
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I liked the idea of Jedi as peace and Sith as passion rather than good vs evil. Should've explored that more rather than just have the sith be huge jerks all the time.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:35
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Gulping Again posted:star wars invented the blockbuster multimedia franchise almost entirely by accident Zane fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 12:42
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Gulping Again posted:it's dumb. star wars is dumb. it has always been dumb. it's been dumb since before most of us were even born. things can be dumb and ridiculous and not hold up to the sophistic masturbation that is the majority of literary criticism at this point and still be fine Ah, a regular reader of contemporary literary criticism are we?
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Jan 23, 2020 12:44
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Yaws posted:Hands down the most irritating video game charterer I've come across. I left her in the ship in the naive hope that'd I wouldn't need to listen to her near endless nihilistic pontifications, but she butted in any way. you were the target audience for her words, had you bothered to listen kreia, ultimately, is an advocate for free will. not in a randian way, though - not because everyone must be self-sufficient or whatever - but because she is reacting against the truth of the star wars universe: everyone is merely a plaything for the force, an evil entity which has bound the galaxy to its own will. even the light side is evil, because it still compromises free will and gives the force as a whole a vector to play out its "smash all the action figures together" narrative that it loves so much. the galaxy will never break free of the cycles of violence and despair that plague it as long as people who listen to the force continue to be revered and placed in charge. kreia comes off as randian because she's broken - she genuinely can't see altruism or cruelty as anything but manifestations of the force, which is why she cautions you to avoid either extreme in your behavior. avellone's point, from a metatextual perspective, is generally misrepresented imo even by the people who spend way too many hours thinking about star wars poo poo. it's not something as trite as "star wars bad" or "the morals and philosophy of star wars are bad". it's that star wars stories are bad when all of the narrative glue that normally holds a story together is replaced by "the force did it". star wars stories are bad when they're all about jedi and how cool they are, instead of about real people. the jedi and sith are bad, because their presence in a story in any numbers greater than the original trilogy virtually guarantees that the story will be dominated by their stupid holy war instead of the concerns of normal people. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 13:09
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I would suggest the target for a lot of KOTOR2's ire is RPG tropes than the Star Wars property. The beggar on Nar Shaddaa is a slam on simplistic morality dilemmas that exist to let players max alignment points, and has more to do with "XP is you sucking the literal lifeForce out of people" and "your party members are being mind-controlled by you, the player" than Kreia's meatier philosophical dialogues. This seems to be something Avellone likes to do - see Torment and player death advancing the story/prohibition on elves, dwarves and swords, or Lonesome Road's blank-slate-PC-wasn't-entirely-blank-after-all.
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Jan 23, 2020 14:05
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bitterandtwisted posted:I liked the idea of Jedi as peace and Sith as passion rather than good vs evil. Should've explored that more rather than just have the sith be huge jerks all the time. I have always interpreted it as having the dark side be a corrupting, almost malevolent influence. Jedi don't do the no passion thing because they think that's a good philosophy; they have these rules because people strong in the force need to contain their passion because not doing so opens one up to being essentially taken over by the dark side and becoming literally evil, regardless of their original intentions. Thus, I've never liked the idea of grey Jedi as a viable thing.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:04
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Save a baby Steal people's change for bus fare to work GREY JEDI!
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Jan 23, 2020 17:30
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bitterandtwisted posted:I liked the idea of Jedi as peace and Sith as passion rather than good vs evil. Should've explored that more rather than just have the sith be huge jerks all the time. The Jedi aren't good, as shown by the entire prequel trilogy where the Jedis are assholes and it causes them to fall to the Dark Side and die. And the Sith will always be jerks because their philosophy is selfish and creates an echo chamber that bounces their negative emotions back at them constantly, creating deranged assholes. What you actually want is one of the other Force traditions that don't give a gently caress about the Jedis outlook [As the Sith are explicitly based around "gently caress the Jedi"].
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Jan 23, 2020 18:33
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KREIA: Man, why does Batman arrest criminals when he knows they just break out of jail and cause even more casualties. THE EXILE: holy poo poo
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Jan 23, 2020 19:10
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the jedi order, established to bring peace and justice to the galaxy and to ensure that force users stick to a path that whoever strays from goes insane and ends up a yellow-eyed psychopath: we're the good guys me, my brain touching every midichlorian in the galaxy: the jedi aren't good
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Jan 23, 2020 19:35
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KREIA: Tell me, Exile, if pro is the opposite of con then does that mean congress is the opposite of progress? THE EXILE: No, language is by nature arbitrary and full of contradictions. Also you're not funny. KREIA: Then you have learned nothing. [LIGHT SIDE POINTS GAINED] [INFLUENCE LOST: KREIA]
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Jan 24, 2020 00:00
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I guess it would be existentially terrifying to have a mysterious ephemeral force affecting everything you do, but that's the same as all fictional characters.
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Jan 24, 2020 00:14
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Sleeveless posted:KREIA: Tell me, Exile, if pro is the opposite of con then does that mean congress is the opposite of progress? lol
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Jan 24, 2020 00:17
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Sleeveless posted:KREIA: Tell me, Exile, if pro is the opposite of con then does that mean congress is the opposite of progress?
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Jan 24, 2020 00:54
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SlothfulCobra posted:I guess it would be existentially terrifying to have a mysterious ephemeral force affecting everything you do, but that's the same as all fictional characters. kreia's kind of like a human who's been both an angel and a demon. she knows from personal experience that god and satan are real - she's talked with both of them - and control mortal events down to the smallest events when it interests them. but neither of them care about people, at all - they just like fighting each other with them. their power can be drawn upon by anyone with sufficient mystical potential, who is then transformed into an angel or demon, and most cataclysmic wars in recorded history were angel vs demon, with mortals just being cannon fodder on either side. that's enough to make anyone go full rebellion-against-god. kreia is lucifer, basically. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 01:25
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