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Seven Hundred Bee posted:was that their goal though? at that point they didn't know what the aliens were as ripley's original ship was destroyed and her descriptions of the alien wern't that useful (at least in the context of what's presented in the film). it was only when paul reiser had a chance to investigate the med lab he realized the potential for the aliens as a weapon and came up with a plan to smuggle some samples back in ripley and newt. Weyland-Yutani has known about the alien since Alien, remember? They didn't have to know anything much about the alien in that movie to tell the robot "whoa nelly, bring that sucker back pronto, feed the crew to it if you have to nbd". Burke's specific plan to get aliens into Newt and Ripley and freeze them without anyone else knowing about it was an opportunistic on-the-fly thing, but I don't believe at all that it's Burke's own initiative to bring aliens back in the first place. He's an ambitious young middle-manager type, not the guy who makes the big decisions. The ship's crew in Alien are kinda superfluous to the actual ship's ability to travel seemingly. They can decide where to go, but they're also totally willing to just conk out and let the ship run itself. I think that's a kind of unusual and memorable touch (for famous sci-fi stories in film anyway -- contrast Star Trek, Star Wars, Forbidden Planet where flying a spaceship requires constant human input) and I can see why they brought it back in Aliens. Pennywise the Frown posted:That's a good point. They probably purposefully sent in a small team just so that no one would get back alive or at least fewer people to talk about it. Burk had his orders from the company to bring that thing back, if it existed, and Ripley called him out saying that he could just sabotage a few hypersleep chambers and boom, he's the WT hero. Something I don't think I've ever seen discussed about the hearing scene is that Ripley knows the company is responsible for getting the Nostromo crew killed, but doesn't actually know if the people at her hearing might have been the very people that signed off on her death. Part of the reason why her character is so hopeless and desperate after being grounded is because the company has shown her they basically have complete control of her life and can easily prevent the truth from ever coming out by just keeping her in her lovely space apartment working lovely space warehouses. The company definitely deliberately let the colonists get slaughtered. It's possible that was the whole point of the colony to begin with. skasion fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 02:03
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:the other thing is, why is ripley all pissed that burke sent a team? like, what the gently caress was he/the company supposed to do? its actually better to investigate her claims (and then possibly have the chance of reversing the decision to suspend her starship license because they confirm what she says) vs. just going 'oh well there's nothing there! better not look into it!' I don't think she was pissed they were sending a team. I think she was more upset that they asked her to go and "bribed" her to go. "Hey, you have severe PTSD? Well we're going to put you into the exact same situation! Sound fun! Oh no? Well we can restore the life you used to have. Excellent!" They said they wanted her there as an adviser and I believe that is actually the case. Ripley expendable.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:03
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SilvergunSuperman posted:But seriously is there a worse name than Spunkmeyer? Wierzbowski? WIERZBOWSKI!!!!!
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Mar 7, 2019 02:04
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:it still doesn't make sense that the ship itself had no crew other than the marines. Why would there be crew? We established in Alien that crew routinely hibernate on long haul journeys, and it isn’t a stretch to think that fifty seven years later starship engineers had perfected Mother so that actual living crew were no longer necessary. Marines just board a ship, go to sleep and wake up when they get there. Once they wake up they handle all their own logistics and maintenance- similar to the “everybody fights” doctrine of the Mobile Infantry of Starship Troopers.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:05
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Donovan Trip posted:Settle down Paul Reiser HahahHah
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Mar 7, 2019 02:05
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'Loose Moose' is better imo:  especially cause the dropship it was on was banana colored 
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Mar 7, 2019 02:05
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Beet Wagon posted:'Loose Moose' is better imo: ownz
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Mar 7, 2019 02:08
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I mean, I'm more disturbed.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:08
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skasion posted:The company definitely deliberately let the colonists get slaughtered. It's possible that was the whole point of the colony to begin with. I understand the people in here with the gripes about the pacing, but that initial colony scene is vital to the reason why the entire movie exists in the first place.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:08
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I need to rewatch the mother/ash scenes, but I don't know if the company knew that much about the alien species prior to the colony getting overrun. it makes much more sense that they knew that there was the potential for something (which hearkens back to the first movie -- they pick up a signal, send a ship to investigate, task the robot to bring it back no matter what) vs. sacrificing the colony and the marines to bring back aliens... vs just sending their research infrastructure to LV-426 and setting up shop there. I moreso see reiser as the middle manager who is grasping at an opportunity to make up for the fact that he oversaw a huge military disaster. the marines get wiped out, they flee back to the main building, and then there he comes up with his scheme (also after witnessing the aliens wreck the gently caress out of the colonial marines).
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Mar 7, 2019 02:08
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I understand the people in here with the gripes about the pacing, but that initial colony scene is vital to the reason why the entire movie exists in the first place. the initial colony scene also makes it seem much less coincidental 'lol they recover ripley and the aliens just pop up after years and years!!!'
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Mar 7, 2019 02:11
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:the initial colony scene also makes it seem much less coincidental 'lol they recover ripley and the aliens just pop up after years and years!!!' That was something that severely bothered me in the movie. Like, ok she tells this radical story about an Alien, something they already knew existed, and they have colonists that have already been on the planet for over 20 years. Then all of a sudden they lose contact and have to go back to it. Wow, what a coincidence.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:13
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:the initial colony scene also makes it seem much less coincidental 'lol they recover ripley and the aliens just pop up after years and years!!!' The scene with Newt’s parents is at the beginning of the movie but Burke sends them to the specific coordinates he gets from Ripley’s testimony about the Nostromo, if I remember correctly.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:15
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OK so here's the initial scene that got cut where Newt's family finds the crashed ship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iusPorC4wZE so Burke (or someone else) just tells someone to visit a grid reference -- sounds much more like 'hey just on the off chance something is there, check it out' instead of 'let's send someone there to get infected, then infect the colony' i guess the next question is: did they get the specific grid reference from ripley, or from somewhere else (recovering the original order to the nostromo?). that's probably going way too deep into it though.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:15
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Pennywise the Frown posted:That was something that severely bothered me in the movie. Like, ok she tells this radical story about an Alien, something they already knew existed, and they have colonists that have already been on the planet for over 20 years. Then all of a sudden they lose contact and have to go back to it. maybe WY knew where she was and only snatched her up for the sole reason of being a adviser 
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Mar 7, 2019 02:16
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Burke was the one who told the colonists to go check out the thing after hearing Ripley's story at the board meeting, which everyone else dismisses as crazy talk. When the colony goes dark he tags along (or organised the mission?) to scrub anything incriminating but still doesn't realise exactly how bad things got. When he gets there he's surprised by the horrible details and magnitude of his fuckup, but also thinks he can turn this into a win. He is wrong. RIPLEY (stepping on him) You sent them to that ship. I just checked the colony log... directive dates six-twelve-seventy-nine. Signed Burke, Carter J. Ripley's fury is peaking, now that the frustration and rage finally have a target to focus on. RIPLEY You sent them out there and you didn't even warn them, Burke. Why didn't you warn them? BURKE Look, maybe the thing didn't even exist, right? And if I'd made it a major security situation, the Administration would've stepped in. Then no exclusive rights, nothing. He shrugs, his manner blase, dismissive. BURKE It was a bad call, that's all.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:17
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him covering up on his mistake as a reason to go on the mission at all is a good angle I didn't think of before. it does imply that the company didn't orchestrate the colonies destruction as a plot to get aliens back to study/send the marines on a suicide mission. (also burke was right! what was he supposed to tell the colony?)
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Mar 7, 2019 02:19
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Not to go to that grid would probably have been a good start lol
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Mar 7, 2019 02:21
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here's the script of the interrogation: VAN LEUWEN Look at it from our perspective. You freely admit to detonating the engines of, and thereby destroying, an M-Class star-freighter. A rather expensive piece of hardware... INSURANCE INVESTIGATOR (dryly) Forty-two million in adjusted dollars. That's minus payload, of course. VAN LEUWEN The shuttle's flight recorder corroborates some elements of your account. That the Nostromo set down on LV-426, an unsurveyed planet, at that time. That repairs were made. That it resumed its course and was subsequently set for self-destruct. By you. For reasons unknown. RIPLEY Look, I told you... VAN LEUWEN It did not, however, contain any entries concerning the hostile life form you allegedly picked up. Ripley sense the noose tightening. RIPLEY Then somebody's gotten to it... doctored the recorder. Who had access to it? The ECA (Extrasolar Colonization Administration) Representative (ECA REP) just shakes his head. ECA REP Would you just listen to yourself for one minute. Ripley glares at the ECA Rep, a woman on the ungenerous side of fifty. Van Leuwen sighs with exasperation. VAN LEUWEN The analysis team which went over your shuttle centimeter by centimeter found no physical evidence of the creature you describe... RIPLEY (losing it) That's because I blew it out the Goddamn airlock! (pause) Like I said. INSURANCE MAN (to ECA Rep) Are there any species like this 'hostile organism' on LV-426? ECA REP No. It's a rock. No indigenous life larger than a simple virus. Ripley grits her teeth in frustration. RIPLEY I told you, it wasn't indigenous. There was an alien spacecraft there. A derelict ship. We homed on its beacon... ECA REP To be perfectly frank, we've surveyed over three hundred worlds and no one's ever reported a creature which, using your words... (read from Ripley's statement) ...'gestates in a living human host' and has 'concentrated molecular acid for blood.' Ripley glances at Burke, silent at the far end of the table. His expression is grim. Her mouth hardens as a bit of the old nail-eating Ripley surfaces. RIPLEY Look, I can see where this is going. But I'm telling you those things exist. Back on that planetoid is an alien ship and on that ship are thousands of eggs. Thousands. Do you understand? I suggest you find it, using the flight recorder's data. Find it and deal with it -- before one of your survey teams comes back with a little surprise... VAN LEUWEN Thank you, Officer Ripley. That will be... RIPLEY (louder, stepping on him) ...because just one of those things managed to kill my entire crew, within twelve hours of hatching... Van Leuwen stands, out of patience. VAN LEUWEN Thank you, that will be all. Ripley stares him down, glowering at the board. RIPLEY That's not all, Goddamnit! If those things get back here, that will be all. Then you can just kiss it good-bye, Jack! Just kiss it goodbye. thoughts: - did someone doctor the flight recorder? did the robot do so in alien? - I guess they got the specific coordinates from the flight recorder
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Mar 7, 2019 02:31
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I always thought this being Burke's show was text. It's been over 50 years, nobody involved with the original film will be still involved with the company. Burke makes a phone call for a low risk long shot and the rest of the film is him scrambling to fix his fuckup. He recruits Ripley personally by going to her front door. The big questions in my mind are did he tag along on a company endorsed rescue mission or did he organise it himself on the down low, and did he tamper with the log or was it the first film robot?
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Mar 7, 2019 02:38
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Weaver's interpretation of that last line is so good. The flight recorder had to have been doctored by the company. I don't think Ash would have erased stuff about the alien, the whole job he was tasked with was to observe, report and bring back the creature.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:39
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:thoughts: I'm not sure. That script isn't 100% accurate of the dialog in the movie and I don't think they mention someone doctoring the flight recorder. It actually explains a bit more. The ECA rep never mentions a virus and there are a few other things that give us some more information. RIPLEY Look, I can see where this is going. But I'm telling you those things exist. Back on that planetoid is an alien ship and on that ship are thousands of eggs. Thousands. Do you understand? This was in the movie. I suggest you find it, using the flight recorder's data. Find it and deal with it -- before one of your survey teams comes back with a little surprise... This was not. edit: my evidence of it not being in the movie? I've seen the movie a lot and know this poo poo! I could always play it right now but I'm confident in my sad lonely knowledge. So that extra bit of dialog is good information. Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 02:40
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Ash is the obvious choice for doctoring the flight recorder, if it happened. Or Mother, considering they were both in on the secret directive to bring the creature back. Obviously Ash gets de-bodied before the escape but the crew in the first movie had a surprisingly small amount of control over what the computer systems were doing at any one time.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:41
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Also, I used to watch this show as a kid. Paul Reiser is very underrated.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:45
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james cameron writes a tight loving movie. it's one of my favorite thing about aliens, especially compared to most scifi. no bloated exposition, yet everything is explained and logically consistent.
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Mar 7, 2019 03:10
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Mar 7, 2019 03:21
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https://i.imgur.com/xXlh4BA.mp4
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Mar 7, 2019 03:56
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Pennywise the Frown posted:That's a good point. They probably purposefully sent in a small team just so that no one would get back alive or at least fewer people to talk about it. Burk had his orders from the company to bring that thing back, if it existed, and Ripley called him out saying that he could just sabotage a few hypersleep chambers and boom, he's the WT hero. MIDPOINT SPOILERS FOR A NOVEL 99% OF PEOPLE EVEN IN THIS THREAD WON'T READ HERE.... In that novel I am reading WY built a colony there more or less to figure out wtf happened to the Nostromo. They had a science team and a marine presence. When the hero of the story shows up (a Marine Captain) he gets pissed these Survey Prospector Teams are going out with Marines especially as one team of brothers has one of them more or less lose his mind being on the planet and a vehicle accident makes them have to take shelter in one of the outer processors. That was poorly maintained. To the point of being about to blow up. And his smarter not lost his mind brother is injured trying to repair it. The Marines with them are... not the best and things much worse. So basically our hero might have killed everyone by following official protocol to not send out Marines with prospector teams and thus Newt's Dad gets facehugged. Course where I am at in the book they are foolishly exploring lots of it because they figure ain't nobody else gonna get to see it once the Science Team goes in. The Jordans more or less see lots of dead Xenos and Engineers including a Queen in there. OK POSSIBLE CRISIS AVERTED FOR THAT ONE DORK LIKE ME. Honestly even the minor part of this the Director Cut has in is too much info. Ideally it would show the Jordans by the derelict then CUT. No showing Russ with the facehugger. Alien watchers would know what's up, non would know something bad is gonna happen then that's it. No idea how the above novel fits in with Newt's Tale or the Fire and Stone series if at all. Non movie canon is never canon anyhow and even movies and TV shows have trouble sticking to their own goddamn rules and world. So take that kind of but not really spoiler from a book how you will. Then there is the Halloween franchise that just has multiple sub continuities like Godzilla.. Alien isn't quite that bad but I'll take Verheiden Dark Horse Trilogy over SPACE DILBERT (Prometheus), Alien 3, or AvP the Comics done mediocre at best in Antarctica instead. It's a lot better and sticks to the first 2 movie rules instead of Meth Facehugger poo poo and White Bald Dudes and the Androids who hate them...
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Mar 7, 2019 04:26
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lol are you reading River of Pain, you dork?
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Mar 7, 2019 04:29
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Ripley vs. Apone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un0jVDpwL_8 Apone vs. Ripley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtKO_fTMzzo
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Mar 7, 2019 07:35
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Okay so I didn't make it much farther in Isolation looking for the chip to fix the door hacker-thingy but I have some questions about mechanics of the game: Tell me how the scavengers work. Do they just roam freely? I ended up hopping the transit car to the reactor looking for the chip, searched around the reactor area for a while, and came back to find a group of scavengers in the transit area preventing me from going back to where I was before (essentially trapping me in the reactor area). I tried to figure a way around them, couldn't, doubled back to the reactor thinking there may've been a hatch or something I missed, didn't find one, and came back to find the scavengers had moved to another room, unfortunately closer to me, so I couldn't get back to the transit area at all. All I have right now is the wrench thing still, no way to shoot them, and no apparent way to have sneaked around them - is it possible to just hide and wait for them to leave? Given enough time, will they on their own? I was also thinking about my encounter last night and it owns in retrospect. I was doing a dumb video game thing just idly looking around the environment and dragging my rear end despite something really loving bad happening which should've made me panic and run away and I got killed for it. I love it also there is no fuckin way I will ever play this game in VR lmao
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Mar 7, 2019 08:18
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If any of you aliens nerds are also board game nerds there's a good game called Legendary Encounters: Alien. There's also a predator one.
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Mar 7, 2019 09:02
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you guys down with alien theory? He breaks down most of the universe and has more knowledge on this stuff then anyone I think... quality channel.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMuSr4WuXno what happened to burke? yeah he got that... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AnWRkI_6rE
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Mar 7, 2019 09:04
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I always forget the "I like griping" line in Alien and it makes me laugh every goddamn time.
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Mar 7, 2019 09:50
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Robokomodo posted:But why? I CAN'T GET PAST THAT AND NEVER WILL AND NEITHER SHOULD ANYBODY
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Mar 7, 2019 10:37
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If I have one small complaint about the original Alien its that the company knew about the aliens in the first place. Make it so Ash has a deep sub-routine that kicks in *if* they ever found an alien, or something. Kind of sucks the cosmic horror aspect out of the film if they were set up to fall victim to the alien. Though that's entirely my personal preference.
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Mar 7, 2019 11:26
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Drunken Baker posted:If I have one small complaint about the original Alien its that the company knew about the aliens in the first place. Make it so Ash has a deep sub-routine that kicks in *if* they ever found an alien, or something. Kind of sucks the cosmic horror aspect out of the film if they were set up to fall victim to the alien. Though that's entirely my personal preference. that's more or less what it was, though, he doesn't actually know anything more about the alien than the crew going in
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Mar 7, 2019 11:33
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Is it? I haven't seen the film for loving years. Well fair enough then.
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Mar 7, 2019 11:50
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Drunken Baker posted:If I have one small complaint about the original Alien its that the company knew about the aliens in the first place. Make it so Ash has a deep sub-routine that kicks in *if* they ever found an alien, or something. Kind of sucks the cosmic horror aspect out of the film if they were set up to fall victim to the alien. Though that's entirely my personal preference. Splicer fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 11:53
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In both alien and aliens the company is not an omnicognisant capitalist Illuminati manipulating people for death and profit, it's a large corporation sending disposable assets on long shot low cost fishing expeditions with a callous indifference to the safety of their employees at long as they have plausible deniability. You know, standard capitalism. Alien 3 messes with this by making yet another random planet be somehow connected to W/Y, which is either a weird and unnecessary coincidence or means the company runs most of known space. Alien resurrection makes it worse by describing them as being so loving alien obsessed they go bankrupt over it. Then Prometheus fucks the whole thing even more sideways because that film made even resurrection look good seriously what the gently caress.
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Mar 7, 2019 12:13
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