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See now people are acting like we didn't neauter collective bargaining through the subversion of laborers. 
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Jun 24, 2018 21:01
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The only way to overcome the nature 5if humans to form gross(both ugly and big) hierarchies and push past the inertia of embedded injustice is through the love of god. Read some of the writings of Baha'u'llah, and then we can start talking about unifying all races and people's under one world government. He's the theo-marx of our times
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Jun 24, 2018 21:03
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I suppose that in specific situations it's possible for humans to accomplish a goal by working together in a truly hierarchy-less manner. An example could be an activity like shoveling dirt from one place to another, where every worker has their own pile of dirt and they all look the same and work at the same speed, and they all individually made the decision to shovel dirt. In this case an outside observer would not be able to differentiate between workers so no hierarchy could be established.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:06
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I'm not advocating anarchism. There is a middle ground between no hierarchy whatsoever and unchallenged authoritarianism. Why shouldn't employees of a company have stake in the company's future? Even King Ronnie agreed with that notion.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:10
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I think the optimal hierarchy for a group of entities depends on the entities. For example if you have a group of people who don't mind dying for the greater good a more authoritarian hierarchy would be better because decision-making skills could be concentrated into a single individual who could then send out orders without having to waste time gathering support. But if you have people who don't want to die at all costs the optimal hierarchy is pure anarchism.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:22
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Not if you've eliminated war and have a global pacificist government not based on exploitation of excluded groups Besides those people can live harmoniously with people that will volunteer, just as happens in the USA today with the military since we have no draft.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:25
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Moridin920 posted:Imagine being a grown rear end adult in 2018 and looking around and thinking 'yeah we just need some more capitalism and things will work out.' capitalism works pretty good for a lot of good stuff imo
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Jun 24, 2018 21:27
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And if somehow we didnt need things like a functioning biosphere and clean air and water we could just let business go on unchecked but the fact of the matter is regulations dont work so we have to use the guillotine
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Jun 24, 2018 21:31
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Moridin920 posted:Not if you've eliminated war and have a global pacificist government not based on exploitation of excluded groups gl w/o religion
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Jun 24, 2018 21:31
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Anyway - true moral leadership derives authority from/by consent of those it is governing over. It's not necessary for us to achieve perfection. We can simply strive to eliminate things like poverty, exploitation, total disregard for environment, etc and then let future people decide for themselves what will best work for them. It is simply a matter of there are a clear group of people standing in the way of any progress in those areas and that group of people are those who stand most to lose from shake ups to the status quo.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:31
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A_Bug_That_Thinks posted:gl w/o religion Honestly if religion is what it takes then fine but I don't think it holds any answers. Something that is ultimately predicated on asking people to shut their brains off and believe is too flawed to function as a unifying force for very long. It's too easily susceptible to factionalization and power grabbing. I don't think the USSR should have stamped on religion so hard... But then when they stopped who was it that insisted on conservative anti-gay and anti-woman reforms? (it was the East Orthodox Church)
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Jun 24, 2018 21:33
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A_Bug_That_Thinks posted:gl w/o religion Correct, the only way forward is a Maritain style Catholic utopia. Which means all protestants have to be exterminated as quickly and ruthlessly as possible, since they made no contributions to mankind in the past 500 years.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:35
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Pretty ironic that you hate communism while playing Tetris
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Jun 24, 2018 21:37
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Former DILF posted:And if somehow we didnt need things like a functioning biosphere and clean air and water we could just let business go on unchecked but the fact of the matter is regulations dont work so we have to use the guillotine this is an argument against capitalism?
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Jun 24, 2018 21:44
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Irom posted:this is an argument against capitalism? Yeah it's usually dubbed something like 'tragedy of the commons.' quote:The tragedy of the commons is a term used in social science to describe a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:45
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Irom posted:this is an argument against capitalism? Yes, the fact that unregulated business sphere is incompatible with a survivable environment is in fact an argument against capitalism.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:46
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, the fact that unregulated business sphere is incompatible with a survivable environment is in fact an argument against capitalism. it may be prudent to point out that most capitalist societies have environmental regulations in place it also may be prudent to point out communist societies aren't very good at air either 
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Jun 24, 2018 21:54
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Capitalist ideology has so thoroughly won that even communists cannot conceive of the socialist society as anything but a more nationalized version of capitalism. A socialist should not say "a fair day's pay for a fair day's work", but ought to inscribe on their banners the revolutionary watchword: "Abolish the wages system!" 
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Jun 24, 2018 21:55
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China is not communist but is insanely hosed up Deregulation is also a thing that business has been relentlessly pursuing since regulations came out because it increases profit
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Jun 24, 2018 21:57
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Ahh the "china is communist" meme in 2018 what a thread
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Jun 24, 2018 21:57
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Senor Dog posted:Ahh the "china is communist" meme in 2018 well what is/was the truest expression of communism so far you pinkos
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Jun 24, 2018 22:02
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Here's some good commie tunes I first heard in the old Bernie thread years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLF7Fl4SXh8
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Jun 24, 2018 22:04
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communism is good, if its not good it cant be communism
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Jun 24, 2018 22:06
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Irom posted:it may be prudent to point out that most capitalist societies have environmental regulations in place They have regulations in place so they can look good as they pay China to pump purestrain mercury into the ocean.
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Jun 24, 2018 22:26
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Former DILF posted:communism is good, if its not good it cant be communism Communism and Catholicism, the two tastes that go so well together.
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Jun 24, 2018 22:26
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liberation theology rules
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Jun 24, 2018 22:29
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jesus is my favorite flavor of communism
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Jun 24, 2018 22:31
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Former DILF posted:liberation theology rules Liberation theology is some bullshit conjured by Protestant heretics to make up for the evil their brothers in faith had caused.
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Jun 24, 2018 23:20
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steinrokkan posted:Correct, the only way forward is a Maritain style Catholic utopia. I think you'll find it's with the bahaiis, who're explicitly about uniting the world under one government, and ending divisions between all peoples
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Jun 24, 2018 23:25
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A_Bug_That_Thinks posted:I think you'll find it's with the bahaiis, who're explicitly about uniting the world under one government, and ending divisions between all peoples The idea that the world can be united under a peaceful government as long as a single Protestant is alive is laughable.
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Jun 24, 2018 23:28
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Read the words, and you will discover all faiths can live in peace under a bahaii umbrella. The Catholics and can live in America, and the protestants can live in Rome
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Jun 24, 2018 23:30
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there will be no peace until all the priests, imams, and rabbis lay dead on top of the billionaires
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Jun 24, 2018 23:55
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Instead of killing the billionaires why don't you just set their bank accounts to $0?
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Jun 25, 2018 00:01
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Woah woah woah now you're gonna be coming for shamans next
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Jun 25, 2018 00:01
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Peter Daou Bundy posted:there will be no peace until all the priests, imams, and rabbis lay dead on top of the billionaires Leaving the bahaiis, who have no priests, left to encourage people in gods love
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Jun 25, 2018 00:07
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Priests are necessary, to instruct the people about their mission, which is to kill American Protestants without mercy.
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Jun 25, 2018 00:08
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SniperWoreConverse posted:Woah woah woah now you're gonna be coming for shamans next The socialists are coming for our ritual stones!
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Jun 25, 2018 00:09
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You can take my stone henge from my cold dead hands
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Jun 25, 2018 00:20
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I watched a documentary about shamans who enslave kids in exchange for granting voodoo powers that will more easily let you internet scam Americans. dunno
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Jun 25, 2018 00:48
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qkkl posted:Instead of killing the billionaires why don't you just set their bank accounts to $0? Better in a gulag imo
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Jun 25, 2018 01:27
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