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and yeah, that is the fundamental problem of republic that the libs tried to solve with insanely elaborate rulebooks whose result you can see in america now, but the fact is that it is still a problem and we are without a solution, and questions of power are always resolved. but the fact is that only insane people want to fight for politica power as a day-to-day occupation, and if you gather them all in the same room and tell us to make unitary government with absolute and total consensus... well there you go. you cant build a co-operative government by centralizing all power and then just farting for years on end on the question of federation, while everything just plays out like a schoolyard dominance determination
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Aug 14, 2020 11:44
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Hefty Leftist posted:is this not a good example of why electoralism is a bourgeois trap you not only will always fail at winning because it's a rigged game, but also they'll dilute your own revolutionary politics into nothing but reformism? feel like Marx was pretty clear about this think the lesson is more that to engage in electoral projects, socialists have to have class independence and have to work to build a party which can achieve this. this support that so many old school radicals like davis and chomsky and others are giving to biden and their rationale is really just a kind of modern take on the popular front. its especially galling with chomsky cause he makes the argument elections and organizing/activism are separate things but its that exact line of thinking which has led protest movements to be siloed off from actually taking and using any real political power. the two have to be joined at the hip and as long as they arent it allows for this sort of minimal/maximal program where "radicals" can make bold calls or slogans like abolish prisons, abolish capitalism, abolish the police, etc. but then vote for and support parties and candidates who believe in none of those things. by word theyre radical anti-capitalists, by action they support and reinforce the status quo.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:37
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my most charitable read of angela davis or the cpusa or whatever endorsing biden is that they're convinced that electoral organizing, at least at the presidential level, is so completely unimportant and toothless when it comes to allowing leftists to exert power that you may as well just pick the 1% less bad option each time and focus all your energy elsewhere
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Aug 14, 2020 15:55
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what’s a good history of the 1917 revolution and maybe into the 20s that I could read so I have any idea wtf yall are talking about
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Aug 14, 2020 16:12
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A People's History of the Russian Revolution by Neil Faulkner is the one I've read
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Aug 14, 2020 16:23
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i havent read it but have heard china mieville's October is a decent overview. theres also trotskys history of the russian revolution, though it is a very long read of about 1000 pages.
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Aug 14, 2020 16:31
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Both Faulkner and Mielville draw heavily from Trotsky's account. Which isn't a criticism of either.
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Aug 14, 2020 16:36
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White Rock posted:the general population is far more right wing than most care to talk about. 50% of the country doesn't vote, period. Coincidentally that half of the country is by and large working poor. the people who would vote left if they hadn't been systemically disenfranchised
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Aug 14, 2020 16:37
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there’s also ten days which shook the world, not quite as encompassing as books that are giving a general history but more what it looked like on the ground to John reed at the time
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Aug 14, 2020 16:39
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10 days that shook the world is fun as it's a foreign reporters notes on the ground as the Bolsheviks actually took power so half of the pages are 'I went to X to ask some questions. Passing the paperboys getting hassled by communist sailors I bluffed my way past the outer guard and got into the meeting. Everyone's shouting and denouncing each other but the Bolsheviks are winning.'
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Aug 14, 2020 16:43
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China Mieville is an abuser and I wouldn't give him money
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Aug 14, 2020 16:45
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indigi posted:what’s a good history of the 1917 revolution and maybe into the 20s that I could read so I have any idea wtf yall are talking about Here's a good overview of some of the major ones that came out around the centenary
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Aug 14, 2020 16:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:China Mieville is an abuser and I wouldn't give him money didn't this turn out to be him cheating on his girlfriend and her taking it really hard?
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Aug 14, 2020 16:54
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V. Illych L. posted:radical left activist groups almost always care a lot about climate issues. voters, by and large, don't, or they may try to isolate them by voting for bourgeois Green parties who have more mainstream authority on the issue and still don't break 5-10% most of the time i just had to drive 15 hours so late reply but i think this is one of those things were there is a remarkable difference between europe and united states in it's underclasses; iv never met a single poor person in all the years iv lived in florida that wasn't worried about climate change unless they were a MAGA guy for weird cultural reasons edit: and I don't think the logic is really hard to follow either. in times of disaster in the united states unless you are white and middle class (or above) you are SOL. everyone knows this. climate change = more disasters that will overwhelmingly harm the poor more than those who can afford to just leave
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Aug 14, 2020 17:19
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extinction rebellion in the UK definitely has some issues from what i have heard from comrades there. think like the person above says, the character of the climate movement in the us is way different and people generally are very open to socialist ideas unless its like an NGO or something
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Aug 14, 2020 18:04
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V. Illych L. posted:didn't this turn out to be him cheating on his girlfriend and her taking it really hard? How would we know?
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Aug 14, 2020 18:06
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apropos to nothing posted:extinction rebellion in the UK definitely has some issues from what i have heard from comrades there. think like the person above says, the character of the climate movement in the us is way different and people generally are very open to socialist ideas unless its like an NGO or something the united states in general i think is rapidly undergoing some real crash course class consciousness bringing along with it a sort of solidarity between the middle and lower classes of "oh my god the rich are going to get us literally all killed because they are incompetent boobs". congress pushing off any sort of aid to people is going to backfire hard on those who desperately want to maintain the status quo.
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Aug 14, 2020 18:31
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Regarde Aduck posted:How would we know? also that's not good either
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Aug 14, 2020 18:46
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there’s a world of difference between abusing someone and cheating on them imo
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Aug 14, 2020 18:48
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indigi posted:there’s a world of difference between abusing someone and cheating on them imo oh yeah but it's still not good (and as the poster pointed out, how would we know)
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Aug 14, 2020 18:49
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wait till you find out what other writers are capable of doing
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Aug 14, 2020 18:52
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oh boy i can't wait to learn more about my favorite author william s burroug.... oh no
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Aug 14, 2020 18:54
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if you can watch Chinatown you can read The Last Days of New Paris
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Aug 14, 2020 18:57
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kudos for having a cancellation debate right after the purge one
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Aug 14, 2020 18:58
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dex_sda posted:oh yeah but it's still not good (and as the poster pointed out, how would we know) unless there's some other allegation I'm not aware of, we would know because that's what he was accused of
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Aug 14, 2020 19:25
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Saw this meme, thought of you
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Aug 14, 2020 20:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:China Mieville is an abuser and I wouldn't give him money based on what.
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Aug 14, 2020 20:59
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mila kunis posted:i kind of want to learn marxism with numbers, computer and math. are there any left wing economics courses/programmes left anywhere looked around and apparently the umass economics programme is pretty leftist and they offer online courses https://www.umass.edu/economics/undergraduate/academics/political-economy-certificate anyone know of others?
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Aug 14, 2020 21:02
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Bryter posted:unless there's some other allegation I'm not aware of, we would know because that's what he was accused of this is confusing because she never names him and if she bothers specifying what he did, its lost in her extensive, vauge diagnosis of narcissism
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Aug 14, 2020 21:04
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Hodgepodge posted:this is confusing because she never names him and if she bothers specifying what he did, its lost in her extensive, vauge diagnosis of narcissism he's "jekyll", and the substance of the allegation comes down to: quote:Jekyll, you ....I can barely write this... you pretended to be shy, unworldly, innocent, hesitant, awed and delighted. And while you did that to me, you did it to many other women simultaneously. Bryter fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 21:06
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that sounds like the complaint of a male incel about a woman he befriended at work
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Aug 14, 2020 21:35
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china mieville and sam kriss are now living in a flat together and are co-writing a marxist epic fantasy science fiction longer than dune and lord of the rings put together
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Aug 14, 2020 21:37
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mila kunis posted:based on what. he’s a trot, that alone probably puts him somewhere on the spectrum between weird sex pest and insane rape cultist
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Aug 14, 2020 21:47
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Bryter posted:he's "jekyll", and the substance of the allegation comes down to: seems like china mieville is not an abuser. c'est la vie
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Aug 14, 2020 21:57
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I read last days of new paris and it sucked so china mieville gets two thumbs down from this troper 👎👎
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Aug 14, 2020 22:05
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apropos to nothing posted:im giving you the actual allegations that were brought against bukharin, that he plotted to assassinate lenin and stalin from 1918 onwards, in collaboration with trotsky. if you find this to be completely farcical, then maybe you can appreciate why the purges and show trials were not based on any sound political basis. if you can still not appreciate this, then i guess im just left with lol i think you are correct
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Aug 14, 2020 23:01
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wasn’t the actual substance of bukharin’s confession that he started forming a secret bloc with trotskyist groups in 1928, not that he wanted to decapitate the party from the revolution onwards
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Aug 14, 2020 23:21
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yeah I thought the 1917 charges were about him and kamenev opposing the October revolution as being too soon
Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 23:25
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I think the issue is less were the most of the purges valid (they weren't usually) but why they happened and then you get into a set of issues that is much bigger than a feud between Stalin and Trotsky. Usually for me, the entire thing unravels when you get into the nitty gritty of the economics of the situation which explains far more what was occurring than the "evil magician" stuff. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Aug 15, 2020 |
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Aug 15, 2020 02:50
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https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1294408462814728193 ugh I can't believe the senate finally did it... they ended their longstanding commitment to the working class
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Aug 15, 2020 06:40
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