Games Workshop Specialist Games: Taking supplements to carry supplements

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Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; коммунизм хранится в яичках

Zasze posted:

They start weak but really shine mid campaign do you have a chaos spawn yet?

Nah, that was the two first rights in a gang war.

# ? May 14, 2018 14:07

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 09:56

Safety Factor: Oct 31, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Crosspostin'!

Here, have a bunch of details about Titanicus from someone who was at Warhammer Fest:

quote:

Adeptus Titanicus

Those of you regular read my ramblings and summaries on the forum will know that I have been keen for this game since the first rumours came out two years ago. What I will say is, from what I saw this weekend, it exceeds my expectations and judging from the constant huge crowds and popularity of the demo. pod, the Specialist Games team have another huge success on their hands � possibly more than Necromunda.

What I will do is firstly go through the rough release schedule of the products before doing a break-down of the game in detail.

Products

Month 1 � Basic rules box containing hardback rulebook; 2x Warlord, Reaver, Warhound and Questoris pattern knight terminals; loads of tokens and basic weapon cards.

- Grand Master edition box: contains everything above plus 2x Warlords, 6x Questoris Knights and 4 (I think) sprues of buildings.

- Warlord Titan

- Warlord Titan terminals

- Questoris Knights in boxes of 3

Month 2 � Reaver titan (boxes of 1)

- Reaver titan terminals

Month 3 � Warhound titan

- Warhound terminals

There are other products due for release such as:

- Maniple sets of terminals for fixed types of titan combinations

- building sets coming in two sizes of boxes for expanding terrain

- resin realm of battle boards

- Cerastus pattern Knights

- Titan-Death (Beta-Garmon) campaign book

- New titan varients

- Weapon cards for Warlords, Reavers and (I presume) Warhounds

- Plastic weapon upgrades for all titan classes for common weapons

- Resin weapon upgrades for rarer weapons (the most requested are the Ursus Claws � ADB has a lot to answer for).

- Decal sheets for the titan legions

The Warhounds have been produced and painted by the FW team but weren`t shown for release as they are outside of the three month preview period as they are due for October. The first month of releases is due for release in August.

The titan sprues have been designed in a certain way and are spread over three sprues.

1. Chassis

2. Armour plates

3. Weapons

What this means is that in the future if different variants of existing titans are released, all the FW team have to do is swop out the appropriate sprue. For example, Siege of Terra Chaos titans will have the spikes, tentacles etc that we associate with Chaos so the standard armour plate sprue can be replaced with a Chaos version. This saves on tooling and product design. Also, currently, only the Warlord has magnet points (we don`t know about the Warhound). The Reaver has ball-joints on its arms so could be magnetised with a bit of work. The poseability of the kits is great and if you look online, you will find many, many photos of the sprues that show you how many parts there are. The kits also include options for Loyalist or Traitor armour plates with plain, Eye of Horus or Titan Legio symbols on them. No two titans need look the same.

The Specialist Games team have also suggested that if the game is successful then we will see an expansion into 40k with Eldar Phantoms and Ork Gargants being included in future expansions but for the moment � the focus is on Heresy. What was clarified many times is that this is a game of titans. The emphaisis is on God-Engines fighting each other as per the original game. There are no plans at all to expand into infantry, vehicles etc as the old Epic as the feeling is that it devalues the role and use of the titans. They have not ruled out a later version of epic as a separate game but there are no plans for the moments.

The plastic products will be supported by GW in the same way as Bloodbowl and Necromunda but will have a limited placement in physical stores just due to the sheer size of the products and the amount of space they will take up in the stores.

The game

The Specialist Team put on a demo-pod explaining the mechanics of the game in detail. This was hugely popular and the event organisers removed all the chairs from another area to ensure there were enough seats � there still wasn`t. This was a flaw I think. Rather than a demo-pod they should of organised this as a seminar supported by demo games in the Studio area. This would of ensured that people could see the game being played and enough people could hear it. The level of interest in this game is huge and probably only getting larger after this weekend.

I`ll begin with some lore and background before moving onto the separate components of the game.

Firstly, they emphasised that unlike the Astartes Legions which are limited to 18 in the Heresy, the Titan Legios are the opposite. There are hundreds of them � many of which do not survive past the Heresy. This means that there is a large emphasis on creating your own Titan Legio and developing your own lore.

The first campaign book will be released this year and focusing on Beta-Garmon (for details of this campaign see my Weekender Summary). This will include more rules for different Titan Legions and Maniple-types. The basic game only comes with Gryphonicus and Warp-Runners. The details on the campaign mechanics and development haven`t yet been released from the Studio team. However, they will detail specifics on each Legio such as campaign banners, colour schemes etc.

The game focused on between 3-5 titans and attending Knight banners and will give 1500-2000 pts and is played on a 4`x4` board but can be expanded depending on number of players etc.

Each titan has a command terminal. This tells you the in-game details for your titan allows you to track the damage etc, that your titan has suffered. For example, it tells you how fast your titan can move, how many turns it takes, how many servitor clades it carries, what do you need for shooting or close combat. It also tells you your armour on different locations of the titan.

In game, you can manipulate your reactor to increase movement or shields but this runs the risk of over-loading the reactor (this is bad) or allowing the machine-spirit to dominate the princeps forcing the titan to act in a certain manner. The general principle is you take damage to the void shields, then armour and then start going critical and explode. Engine kill confirmed!

During the game, you can repair systems. Each titan has a number of servitor clades that each one allows you to roll a single d6. For each system there is a target number to repair a damage or a void shield. If all the shields are dropped, they can only be brought back on a 6+ thus try not to allow your shields to drop.

Knights also have a terminal but this represents a unit (banner) of between 3-5 knights. Each knight can be armed individually and each gives slightly different advantages and disadvantages. Knights cannot go toe-to-toe with a titan but can bring down void shields or finish off a heavily damaged titan. These are you skirmishers and light troops and can access areas of the board that bigger titans can`t. Ignore them at your peril.

The game also includes stratagems and commands. Stratagems give you advantages before the game begins such as outflanking, fortifications etc. If your maniple has lower points than your opponent, then you gain extra stratagems to balance your forces.

Commands are issued at the start of the turn and each titan class has a target number to achieve a command. If the roll is failed, no further commands are issued for the rest of your turn so does include some risks. There are 3 basic commands that don`t need a roll and 6 advanced orders. The box will include command dice so that you can mark the order given on the terminal. Each order gives bonuses and negatives. For example, you could focus on shooting but you can`t move.

Movement and shooting is alternative actions so both players are involved at all points of the game. For me, this makes much more sense as too many GW games have one person (or team) sitting around and letting things happen to them. Alternative activations allow more tactics to take place.

Movement is a key part of the game as weapon arcs are limited and titans are not manoeuvrable. A warlord, for example, can only make a turn for each 4� of movement or two if it overloads its reactor for movement. Smaller titans become faster and more manoeuvrable. Knights are free to move as they wish. Moving backwards is possible but at half-speed. Facing directly dictates the fire arcs of your weapons.

Weapon arcs are two types depending on the weapon and its location on the titan. Carapace tend to be fixed forward which is a straight corridor from the titans base; arm weapons have the typical 90� forward arc. Carapace weapons also include a minimum distance to shoot at as well. The weapon arcs are shown using a template that comes on the titan sprues to limit arguments. What all of this means is that Warlords are very powerful but if smaller titans can close the distance or get round the flanks, then the Warlord can be at a disadvantage as not all the weapons can be brought to focus on the target.

After selecting your target you make your attack rolls. Typically, the more dice you roll, the lower the strength of the weapon. Once any attack rolls are made, then you roll for damage. This is similar to 7th ed. vehicle penetration. You roll a d6, add the weapon strength and compare to the location armour to see the effect. Some hits won`t do anything at, high strength attacks could cause critical damage which is recorded on the template. Weapons also have special rules attached like shield-drain which knocks down void-shields faster, or greater critical damage. Void Shields allow you to make saves for each hit you take, the more shields you have left, the better your void saves. As your shields drop, their save gets worse. There are still templates for weapons like barrage launcher or flamer weapons.

What this means in practice is that the titans (or maniples) need a variety of weapons. You could load out your titan with engine-killers like volcano cannons but you won`t knock down shields quickly. Weapons which can shred shields may not have the strength to penetrate armour. Void Shields also have a minimum range so if you get close enough, the target won`t get its saves for shields. Shooting is alternative activation so selecting order of units is key for success.

Close-combat is a part of the game but the emphasis is on the shooting aspect. The risk of close combat is that it�s very dangerous. If you kill an enemy titan in melee and it goes nuclear then you can kill yourself in the blast.

Creating a maniple is key. The game includes several `model` maniples for you to base your forces on which reflects the narrative of the legio. Each type of maniple gives bonuses for using that type but restricts your choice of titan.

For example, a battleline maniple consists of:

1 Warlord

2 Reaver

2 Warhounds

The minimum maniple size for a battleline maniple is:

1 Warlord

1 Reaver

1 Warhound

Another maniple type (my personal favourite and my planned first build) is a hunting pack consisting off:

1 Reaver

4 Warhounds

Different titan legios may have unique maniples to reflect their fighting styles or units available. These will be detailed in specific campaign books.

The weapon pack cards give extras of different types of weapon beyond the basic game and will include all the plastic planned upgrade sets. These give you enough to field most of your maniple unless you are using multiples of the same class of titans. The weapon cards give you the rules and points for that weapon to place on your titan terminal.

To calculate the cost of the titan you add the base chassis cost to the individual cost of the weapons.

My keen for this game is huge and I can`t wait for its release. I think it will be massively popular and welcomed by the community. There is so much scope for game-play from any scale from narrative to tournament. We know there are new plans for different classes of titan and campaign books. With a possible 40k expansion to add xenos and late Chaos titans there is so much room for expansion and development. Personally, I don`t care that there no vehicles or infantry as I just want to play with God-Engines. I have been waiting a long time for the release of this game and it`s just round the corner � the wait has been worth it.

# ? May 14, 2018 15:41

SRM: Jul 10, 2009; ~*FeElIn' AweS0mE*~

Safety Factor posted:

Crosspostin'!

Here, have a bunch of details about Titanicus from someone who was at Warhammer Fest:

take me now

# ? May 14, 2018 16:02

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

Jesus christ, I'm applying for the loan as I type. I am buying all of this. ALL OF IT.

Edit: Have they said when we can expect to pre-order?

# ? May 14, 2018 16:42

Thundercloud: Mar 28, 2010; To boldly be eaten where no grot has been eaten before!

Philthy posted:

Jesus christ, I'm applying for the loan as I type. I am buying all of this. ALL OF IT.

Edit: Have they said when we can expect to pre-order?

It will be late July/early August. GW never do preorders longer than 2 weeks.

# ? May 14, 2018 17:31

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

Thundercloud posted:

It will be late July/early August. GW never do preorders longer than 2 weeks.

Good to know. I'll have to actually pay attention or set up stupid alarms on my phone or something.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 21:03 on May 14, 2018

# ? May 14, 2018 19:35

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Sounds rad as hell

# ? May 14, 2018 20:25

Macdeo Lurjtux: Jul 5, 2011; BRRREADSTOOORRM!

The breakdown makes it look like the terminals required to play are sold separately from the models.

# ? May 14, 2018 20:25

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Yeah, it's a dick move. I mean, the terminals in the base box can tide you over for the initial buy, but not for long!

Also, told ya the knights are gonna be destroyers.

# ? May 14, 2018 20:36

WorldIndustries: Dec 21, 2004

That game sounds super fun, specialist games is killing it with both rules and models recently.

# ? May 14, 2018 21:02

Philthy: Jan 28, 2003; Pillbug

Ohh boy, at this scale we could see the various Ordinati that existed in the Heresy era as well.

:gizz:

# ? May 14, 2018 21:06

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

GW, I'm sorry for all the mean things I said to you all this years...

Nah, I'm not, but please take my money.

# ? May 14, 2018 22:24

Hustlin Floh: Jul 20, 2009; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

JcDent posted:

Yeah, it's a dick move. I mean, the terminals in the base box can tide you over for the initial buy, but not for long!

Also, told ya the knights are gonna be destroyers.

BFG was based off of the titan rules from one of the old editions of Epic, so it all comes full circle.

# ? May 14, 2018 22:46

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

This looks really promising and sounds like it has more than a little in common with Battletech (alternate movement followed by alternate shooting, running your engines hot to get more actions out of a unit), but that's totally my jam. I think it's beyond my budget at the moment though.

# ? May 15, 2018 00:54

mcjomar: Jun 11, 2012; Grimey Drawer

That all sounds pretty cool.
I scraped up some old epic armageddon titans, so I've got a minimum battleline maniple (ish):
Lucius warlord
Reaver (it's resin?)
two warhounds (they're funky resin type things that are bulky and blocky and totally my kind of stompy robit).

So, assuming I don't get shitheel opponents, I guess I could use these dudes for a robot fight.
Just need rules and terrain (I'm a bit uncaring about the scale poo poo right now - maybe these are archeotech robots or whatever, just so long as it looks cool on the table).
I guess I would want the basic box, and then buy separately a bunch of terrain/boards maybe (probably not a problem at my local gaming club, I hope, so maybe I wouldn't need terrain). E: apparently scale is super important so I guess I'm wrong about all of this. Looks like I'll be passing on AT.

Alternate activation is the best bit, I'm really coming to enjoy that sort of game (although Infinity is good as an IGOUGO as that whole ARO thing gives opponents poo poo to do during turns anyways).

mcjomar fucked around with this message at 10:44 on May 15, 2018

# ? May 15, 2018 08:30

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

mcjomar posted:

Alternate activation is the best bit, I'm really coming to enjoy that sort of game (although Infinity is good as an IGOUGO as that whole ARO thing gives opponents poo poo to do during turns anyways).

"Four shots of BS 2 vs. your two at BS 9? I'll take the odds!"

*comes in 12th in an 18 player tournament*

# ? May 15, 2018 11:09

mcjomar: Jun 11, 2012; Grimey Drawer

JcDent posted:

"Four shots of BS 2 vs. your two at BS 9? I'll take the odds!"

*comes in 12th in an 18 player tournament*

You're not wrong.
For my tastes I still prefer that situation to some of what I've experienced in 40k (6th and 7th).
Is 8th any better?

# ? May 15, 2018 12:00

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

You misunderstand, that wasn't criticism, and I'm the first guy in that situation.

My Sierra bot has never met odds he wouldn't challenge.

Meanwhile, 8th edition 40k is maybe less bad than 7e, but it's bad in exciting new ways that makes the game feel really bland.

The good things are:
AP is a modifier instead of all-or-nothing
Vehicles aren't uniquely fragile anymore when compared to MCs
WS/BS are now just static numbers
Heavy weapons and Unwieldy are now only -1 to hit.

Bad:
Pretty much everything else, especially replacing USRs with a bajillion snoflake rules that do the same
Vehicles are now basically MCs, which means facings don't matter and weapons donxt get destroyed
Mortal Wounds are a thing that cuts though all saves and whatever, and it's horrible
Morale rules are the worst.

# ? May 15, 2018 13:57

Lord_Hambrose: Nov 21, 2008; *a foul hooting fills the air*

JcDent posted:

Morale rules are the worst.

The morale rules are a big improvement through? I like that you only lose some guys, rather than the old situation where either you are totally/functionally immune to morale, or you lose one guy to shooting and an unlucky leadership test causes the whole unit to flee. As a former WHFB guy the number of guys dying directly impacting the test feels right.

# ? May 15, 2018 14:04

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

I just dislike the whole "a dude dies in sympathy, the others keep on trucking" instead of routing or whatever. It's even worse in Sigmar, where most battles are two armies getting locked in the middle of the table until one runs out of dude.

Not saying that the last one was flawless - what kind of insanity relegates pinning to a special rule only a handful of units get - but that's GW rule writing.

# ? May 15, 2018 14:15

Safety Factor: Oct 31, 2009; Grimey Drawer

While I can definitely understand wanting to cut down the amount of leadership tests (a unit in 7th could easily take 3+ tests between the shooting and assault phases), I 'm not a fan of the current implementation. I liked the fact that units could retreat off of objectives or other important positions. It added a little dynamism that is lacking in 8th. Well, I'm coming from a 30k perspective; leadership was almost never an issue in 7th edition 40k. The penalties for regrouping were a little too harsh, however, and I'd like to see those lessened somewhat.

# ? May 15, 2018 14:35

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; коммунизм хранится в яичках

JcDent posted:

"Four shots of BS 2 vs. your two at BS 9? I'll take the odds!"

*comes in 12th in an 18 player tournament*

What wrecked me this weekend was good use of mass activations with Van Saar, who are already a low-model high individual power force.

# ? May 15, 2018 14:59

mcjomar: Jun 11, 2012; Grimey Drawer

JcDent posted:

You misunderstand, that wasn't criticism, and I'm the first guy in that situation.

My Sierra bot has never met odds he wouldn't challenge.

My bad.

JcDent posted:

Meanwhile, 8th edition 40k is maybe less bad than 7e, but it's bad in exciting new ways that makes the game feel really bland.

The good things are:
AP is a modifier instead of all-or-nothing
Vehicles aren't uniquely fragile anymore when compared to MCs
WS/BS are now just static numbers
Heavy weapons and Unwieldy are now only -1 to hit.

Bad:
Pretty much everything else, especially replacing USRs with a bajillion snoflake rules that do the same
Vehicles are now basically MCs, which means facings don't matter and weapons donxt get destroyed
Mortal Wounds are a thing that cuts though all saves and whatever, and it's horrible
Morale rules are the worst.

So I guess not much has changed since the last time I asked about 8th then (before they brought out the last year or so of FAQs and codexes).

Mortal wounds always sounded bad to begin with, and facings and weapon destroyed events were the good part of GW vehicles.

I'm honestly surprised that morale rules are worse now though, and

JcDent posted:

I just dislike the whole "a dude dies in sympathy, the others keep on trucking" instead of routing or whatever.

Sounds pretty bad.

Morale rules have always been a bit iffy for GW though from my perspective.

I really need to take time to play 8th at some point for myself. I've got a Guard force for that task.

In the meantime though, Necromunda continues to be awesome, and a massive improvement over previous editions. How bizarre.

I've also had a quick glance through the net.Epic Armageddon rules, and if I wanted to find any way to actually put my E:A titan minis on the table I'd have to go ebay bargain hunting for suitable forces for a Guard regiment (and then find an opponent to play E:A with). It's not cheap... I guess those minis will either be sold, or become dust gathering display pieces. Pity. I really like the E:A resin Warhound and metal Warlord minis (I've never liked any iteration of the Reaver, but the E:A resin version is the one I dislike the least).

# ? May 15, 2018 15:44

Foul Ole Ron: Jan 6, 2005; All of you, please don't rush, everyone do the Guybrush!; Fun Shoe

Car parks are starting to be a problem again in 40k sadly. Also leadership has again become worthless.

# ? May 15, 2018 16:00

berzerkmonkey: Jul 23, 2003

Guess there won't be any mixing and matching with Epic and AT...

# ? May 15, 2018 16:24

Guy Goodbody: Aug 31, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

There was no reason for GW to worry about making the old Adeptus Titanicus or Epic miniatures compatible with the new version. There are people old enough to vote now who were born after GW stopped supporting Epic.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:05

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

This is why "god you nerds it's only 2mm" was so hilariously dumb.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:13

TTerrible: Jul 15, 2005

Th position on using old titans in new AT is so dumb it�s making me agree with guy good body

# ? May 15, 2018 17:15

Booley: Apr 25, 2010; I CAN BARELY MAKE IT A WEEK WITHOUT ACTING LIKE AN ASSHOLE; Grimey Drawer

moths posted:

This is why "god you nerds it's only 2mm" was so hilariously dumb.

I think you'll find that its actually the people bitching over the size difference for an entirely different game are the ones that are hilariously dumb

# ? May 15, 2018 17:15

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Can't post for 7 hours!

Personally I see no reason or gain in that model being larger, other than forcing me to re-buy my army from when I was a child. This is an outrage.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 17:37 on May 15, 2018

# ? May 15, 2018 17:34

TTerrible: Jul 15, 2005

berzerkmonkey posted:

Guess there won't be any mixing and matching with Epic and AT...

This is clearly a tiny scale increase just to spite old modellers. That model has no extra detail whatsoever.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:37

Lord_Hambrose: Nov 21, 2008; *a foul hooting fills the air*

Lol people playing with their old Trash Titans when these new ones blow them away in quality. Especially when they are 2 decades old.

Maybe OK to upgrade your stuff every decade or so?

# ? May 15, 2018 17:38

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Booley posted:

an entirely different game

The stated reason for the scale change was that the infantry models look better.

(Hint: There is no infantry in AT.)

# ? May 15, 2018 17:40

Shadin: Jun 28, 2009

Guy Goodbody posted:

There was no reason for GW to worry about making the old Adeptus Titanicus or Epic miniatures compatible with the new version. There are people old enough to vote now who were born after GW stopped supporting Epic.

This is the correct answer. Also, that picture shows why making it Epic compatible would be the worst possible mistake. Epic scale was all hosed up and inconsistent between models. loving lol if you think the model on the right in that pic is a proper 6mm scale Titan and that's the real difference between 6mm and 8mm in practice. If the Titan on the right was properly sized then that means normal troops in Epic are like 20 feet tall.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:41

Z the IVth: Jan 28, 2009; The trouble with your "expendable machines"; Fun Shoe

moths posted:

This is why "god you nerds it's only 2mm" was so hilariously dumb.

That's not a 6mm/8mm scale differential though? It's more like 6mm/15mm if you take the old warlord as being the "correct" size. It's more like the old warlord is an undersized scrunt and you should use it as a Warhound instead.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:41

Guy Goodbody: Aug 31, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

Imagine being pissed that models that went out of production during the Clinton administration aren't supported in a game coming out this year.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:42

Shadin: Jun 28, 2009

moths posted:

The stated reason for the scale change was that the infantry models look better.

(Hint: There is no infantry in AT.)

Yes but they wanted the option to expand without having to make it compatible with a hosed up 30 year old game that didn't have things scaled properly.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:43

Tiny Chalupa: Feb 14, 2012

Can we expect to see Adeptis Titanicus stuff in the July White Dwarf or likely not to show anything, price or otherwise, until the August magazine?

It's been so long since I've done any gw I'm out of the loop with how they do things these days.

Also need to start practicing painting again...how is Shadespire in terms of game quality?

# ? May 15, 2018 17:44

Shadin: Jun 28, 2009

Tiny Chalupa posted:

Can we expect to see Adeptis Titanicus stuff in the July White Dwarf or likely not to show anything, price or otherwise, until the August magazine?

It's been so long since I've done any gw I'm out of the loop with how they do things these days.

Also need to start practicing painting again...how is Shadespire in terms of game quality?

I don't know about AT previews in upcoming White Dwarf, but Shadespire is cool, good, and quick to learn and play. It's not just a good GW game, it's a fantastic skirmish game by any measure.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:45

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 09:56

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

I'd be the first in line to replace my Epic figures with better looking ones, my problem is that this is almost guaranteed to lose steam before they get to non-Imperial factions.

So new Epic will either not happen at all or eventually fall to the same limited faction issue that killed Warmaster, BFG, and E40k:A. And then we're left with pretty models that look stupid fighting Clinton era relics.

# ? May 15, 2018 17:46

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