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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:no, a childish twitter slapfight is a childish twitter slapfight unless that person has already taken a firm side You haven't actually argued with any of these people, have you? Like, this is painfully naive.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:26
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Even if you could turn someone off of Carlgon it wouldn't mean much, as without an alternative appealing framework, that would only mean that person would choose another crappy reactionary rational to follow. The only good option to save some of these young adults from a life perpetual frustration and conservatism is to offer them another valid framework that assigns meaning to their frustration, eg class consiousness. Ultraliberals on the other hand will just make things worse by perpetually shaming and calling them bad names for their own self-amusement.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:27
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:no, a childish twitter slapfight is a childish twitter slapfight unless that person has already taken a firm side Right. Which is the kind of people we're talking about. I don't know how to explain this any clearer to you. Edit: VVVVVVV A simple "no" would have sufficed. Nobody gives a gently caress about your dipshit friends. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 21:28
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WampaLord posted:You haven't actually argued with any of these people, have you? Like, this is painfully naive. i have in fact discussed political matters with people who don't listen to sargon but do have right-wing views, and i tend to be friends with these people to the point that they're willing to have a conversation rather than  into my face like you imagine them doingunless that's how you yourself act irl? idk, i hope not; I've had people angrily at me irl about nerd poo poo and stuff and it's not fun
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Jul 12, 2017 21:29
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Who What Now posted:Right. Which is the kind of people we're talking about. I don't know how to explain this any clearer to you. ok, let me explain this carefully it is in fact possible to persuade someone with lovely political views to have less-lovely political views it can take time, and a bit of energy, and patience, depending on how deeply-ingrained/extreme the person's lovely views are, and it helps tremendously if you're friends with that person so you're able to approach them about ~serious topics~ and be listened to assuming that people with those views are impossible to reason with is disrespectful, defeatist, and frankly very narrow-minded making the world a better place starts with yourself; don't regard your peers as incorrigible shitstains and lo and behold, they might be willing to listen to what you have to say
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Jul 12, 2017 21:38
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:ok, let me explain this carefully You have no personal experience talking to or interacting with these people. You're talking completely out of your rear end, and have nothing new or worthwhile to explain.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:39
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:making the world a better place starts with yourself; don't regard your peers as incorrigible shitstains and lo and behold, they might be willing to listen to what you have to say Thankfully none of my friends are shitstains. Even my "conservative" friends were smart enough to realize Trump and the alt right are a bunch of insane madmen.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:46
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Who What Now posted:It's really weird to befriend people who talk about kekeistan, who are the subject of this thread. Lambic bringing up that he's buddies with Gary who is "Fiscally Conservative" is just a non-sequitor Still weird to interpret it as him having a bunch of pepe buddies...
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Jul 12, 2017 22:08
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Panzeh posted:Its really weird to not have friends with whom you disagree politically. there is a limit to this. i couldn't be friends with anyone that voted for trump.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:12
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Midig posted:Still weird to interpret it as him having a bunch of pepe buddies... When you say "I'm friends with people like this" in a thread about pepe buddies what else should I assume?
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Jul 12, 2017 22:13
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Who What Now posted:What have you actually done to convert someone on the right-wing fringe, exactly? Go on, show us your superior techniques. Who What Now posted:And I already told you, it's not worth doing. You think it is, so tell me what you're doing about it.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:14
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Who What Now posted:When you say "I'm friends with people like this" in a thread about pepe buddies what else should I assume? This is what he said: "I don't often get into political discussions with my friends, but when I do, it's usually about questioning their beliefs/how they came to such beliefs and it turns out they took something way out of context because they weren't fully paying attention so, whoops on their part. in general, though I try to be friendly and not get into political fights with people I'm friends with because ya know, that's a lovely thing to do" If you read it carefully you can notice that he is not specific at all and just a "When I talk politics with my friends...". I think you jumped the gun on this one.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:16
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Pittsburgh you've clarified your position like ten times and I'm still struggling to see your point. Okay it's technically possible to change someone's mind politically, though very rare from the studies I'm aware of. So then what? Are we supposed to take years to talk down one anime Nazi? Like people have been saying the only realistic course of action is to try to fix society and tackle the root of the Animus against others. People change their minds when their life changes.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:17
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like you can't be whole hog for trump and be a decent person in your day to day to life or have normal beliefs/views.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:18
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Midig posted:This is what he said: I don't really give a poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:19
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Who What Now posted:I don't really give a poo poo. If you insist that he is trying to convince pepes 3 times then you probably do.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:20
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i don't even talk to my brother cuz he's gone full alt right (although it's more him not talking to me since i just virtue signal).
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Jul 12, 2017 22:20
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Groovelord Neato posted:i don't even talk to my brother cuz he's gone full alt right (although it's more him not talking to me since i just virtue signal). A) I'm sad that the Nazi poison affected your family. B) Is your brother older or younger than you and can you bully him and make him hate his life?
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Jul 12, 2017 22:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:i don't even talk to my brother cuz he's gone full alt right (although it's more him not talking to me since i just virtue signal). I had a friend who was/is a Breivik sympathizer. I was quite shocked and some part of my brain still thinks that is too dumb of an opinion to be real.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:22
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Midig posted:If you insist that he is trying to convince pepes 3 times then you probably do. I was insisting pepes, and specifically mocking them, are the topic of this this thread and not Lambic's dumbass friends.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:24
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Al-Saqr posted:A) I'm sad that the Nazi poison affected your family. he's younger than me. but not by much. he's 29. when he was responding to poo poo i posted on fbook i thought he was just being contrarian (because he'd been like that even when he was sane) but nah my mom told me he flew into rages because he was being serious.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:27
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Groovelord Neato posted:he's younger than me. but not by much. he's 29. Ok if he's that old then there's not much you can do other than just refuse to talk to him or help him in any way until he becomes open to changing his ways. In fact you could try blocking him on facebook to really send home the message. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 22:28
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i just have my posts hidden from him so they don't trigger him anymore. i feel like blocking him would just send him off (he lives with my parents and i don't want them to have to deal with constant meltdowns). if i knew he was that far gone and wasn't just trolling i never would've responded to him. it's a huge bummer because he was totally normal up until now, even prior to trump winning you could have a fairly normal convo with him about politics.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:31
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Groovelord Neato posted:like you can't be whole hog for trump and be a decent person in your day to day to life or have normal beliefs/views.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:35
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quote:He's not a Republican. He's a repudiation of Republicans so did you want me to take this seriously? trump is the logical end point of the southern strategy.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:36
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Groovelord Neato posted:so did you want me to take this seriously? trump is the logical end point of the southern strategy. I was pointing more to this though quote:I thought Donald Trump disqualified himself at numerous points. But there is now this idea that anyone who voted for him has to be defined by the worst of his rhetoric. There are guys in my neighborhood that I love, that I respect, that I think have incredible qualities who are not afraid of Mexicans, and not afraid of Muslims, and not afraid of blacks. They're afraid of their insurance premiums. In the liberal community, you hate this idea of creating people as a monolith. Don't look at Muslims as a monolith. They are the individuals and it would be ignorance. But everybody who voted for Trump is a monolith, is a racist. That hypocrisy is also real in our country.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:40
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Groovelord Neato posted:(he lives with my parents and i don't want them to have to deal with constant meltdowns). This explains a lot.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:40
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Ausmund posted:I was pointing more to this though that isn't hypocrisy. those rich people he knows afraid of their insurance premiums likely post blue lives matter on fbook too.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:42
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I've easily solved the problem of discussing politics with my friends by not having friends.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:that isn't hypocrisy. those rich people he knows afraid of their insurance premiums likely post blue lives matter on fbook too.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:48
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that isn't hypocrisy. they choose who they supported (and he found most of his support in comfortable white suburbia and exurbia). his comparison to say hating black people doesn't make any sense. a person is born black. they didn't choose it.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:50
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Monglo posted:I've easily solved the problem of discussing politics with my friends by not having friends. I too use this Lifehack
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Jul 12, 2017 22:53
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Groovelord Neato posted:that isn't hypocrisy.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:55
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I too use this Lifehack Who needs friends when you have friendship simulators..
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Jul 12, 2017 22:55
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Ausmund posted:It's people using the mindset they oppose to oppose said mindset. but...it isn't the same mindset.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:56
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Fados posted:So you'd describe yourself as a 'high value' person or what? Funny how you seem to dislike MRA's, but actually sound just like some guru explaining the ladder theory. Funny how you're defending guys who are too toxic for women to want to deal with. It's not that having more sex = better than, but if you legit can't convince a woman to have it with you as a straight dude, the odds are very good you have a serious issue. Being able to have normal relationships with people is necessary but not sufficient to be a functioning person. How is this at all contentious? If saying "Hey, get out of your house, get a job, get normal interests, and act like a functioning person if you want a girlfriend or sex" is Ladder Theory, than yeah I'm all for it. But that's not what the theory is, or at least not what the contentious part of it is. Suggesting that these guys need to make themselves into something other than rapists waiting to happen should be common sense. And I don't see how mocking these guys for having the contradictory ideas of "Why won't women sleep with me?" and "Women need to be hyper-chaste. If the girl isn't a virgin, she's just using me." isn't in tone with the rest of the thread. Having empathy for these guys is a mistake, because that's one step closer to normalizing parts of their behavior, instead of getting them to conform to society.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:57
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Ausmund posted:It's people using the mindset they oppose to oppose said mindset. Gonna drop some hot takes here but maybe it's OK to give someone poo poo for one thing and not for another? There is nothing wrong about being black or Muslim, there's a lot wrong with thinking Donald Trump is a good thing. The two aren't equivalent. At all.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:57
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Groovelord Neato posted:but...it isn't the same mindset. All people that support "Trump" are "racists"! All people that support "Islam" are "terrorists"!
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Jul 12, 2017 23:00
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those aren't the same my dude. this really is not difficult to grasp.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:00
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Fados posted:Even if you could turn someone off of Carlgon it wouldn't mean much, as without an alternative appealing framework, that would only mean that person would choose another crappy reactionary rational to follow. God, why don't you just say 'Virtue signalling' and get it out.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:02
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