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NickBlasta posted:stupid as hell pretender build The gently caress are you taking a zillion paths on a guy who is going to be sitting in a lab casting the same spell every turn from turn 20 until the day he dies?
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Mar 20, 2014 05:06
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dis astranagant posted:The gently caress are you taking a zillion paths on a guy who is going to be sitting in a lab casting the same spell every turn from turn 20 until the day he dies? That's not really the case, usually after making the first couple vampires your pretender is wasted on it, it's quite easy to simply raise a vamp to D3B3 and have him become your vampire factory. Your pretender uses the other paths to summon the better demons, create boosters for your other mages, create necessary items for your thugs, and do other fun things like summon Naiads to do more of the former for it. Maybe it's not efficient but it kinda lets you do everything you could need. 
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Mar 20, 2014 05:12
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Just kill Ulm already do not allow him to be.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:14
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NickBlasta posted:That's not really the case, usually after making the first couple vampires your pretender is wasted on it, it's quite easy to simply raise a vamp to D3B3 and have him become your vampire factory. Your pretender uses the other paths to summon the better demons, create boosters for your other mages, create necessary items for your thugs, and do other fun things like summon Naiads to do more of the former for it. LA Ulm already has access to every path but water, taking a ton of paths on their pretender is a waste and taking dom5 is pants on head retarded even if you didn't have immortals and a ton of points spent on scales.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:17
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Jabarto posted:I don't understand, are you asking if all units within a given faction should be useful, or if it would be okay to have a faction focus on heavy infantry because that would (ostensibly) make it weaker? quote:Either way the answers should be pretty obvious, because what possible reason could you have for making something deliberately useless? I think a big part of the reason MA Eriu gets left in the lurch is because they have like six units, somewhere between two and four of which are arguably pretty pointless to have (all about the Fir Bolg Spearmen backed up with Milesian slingers to siege with). quote:Also, are heavy infantry bad or something? I feel like I'm missing something pretty major here. Heavy armour goes from vaguely useful indie-scripted shortbow counter during expansion to heavy, resource-intensive liability within the first year and a half. It doesn't tend to scale very well, and as soon as you start getting things like skeleton spam blocking up your infantry formations they get ruined pretty fast.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:24
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dis astranagant posted:LA Ulm already has access to every path but water, taking a ton of paths on their pretender is a waste and taking dom5 is pants on head retarded even if you didn't have immortals and a ton of points spent on scales. Probably not as much as you think. Vampires are only kinda-sorta okay at combat (though a suicide summon Lammashtas/respawn at home strat is pretty funny) and when they die they respawn with 3-4 afflictions that take quite awhile to go away. I've been offensively dom pushed in a few multi games and it's never worked for my opponent, any army of size you have is gonna be led by Black Priests and they can pretty much destroy any quantity of black candles with preach.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:30
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dis astranagant posted:LA Ulm already has access to every path but water, taking a ton of paths on their pretender is a waste and taking dom5 is pants on head retarded even if you didn't have immortals and a ton of points spent on scales. Do need to have a plan to use them, though.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:32
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Yeah, but that whole build reeks of stupid newbie bullshit with diversity for its own sake, huge scales and no dominion to spread them with. It tries to do everything and ends up doing nothing. The extra diversity sounds great on paper, but it's LA so you're never going to have the gems to do half that crap and those 10 gems and 90 slaves for another count summoner (don't forget the cost of the count himself) should be spent on a second summoner, not replacing your first. d3b3-b5 (depending on how the cost of your points lines up) is plenty of magic on your god. That gets you counts, bone fiends and maybe ritual of the five gates. You don't need to summon a specific kind of demon and the named demons below heliophagi simply don't bring much to the table.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:49
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Black Priests preach at effective H4 for the purposes of getting rid of candles, Dom 5 on LA Ulm really is pretty safe. Only faction I'd be happier to use it on is LA Marignon.
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Mar 20, 2014 05:53
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jBrereton posted:Heavy armour goes from vaguely useful indie-scripted shortbow counter during expansion to heavy, resource-intensive liability within the first year and a half. It doesn't tend to scale very well, and as soon as you start getting things like skeleton spam blocking up your infantry formations they get ruined pretty fast. It depends on the unit and how much gold you have to spare, some heavy infantry is great to mass even later in the game Things that can make nonsacred heavy infantry good: High HP High Damage Magic Weapons Multiple Attacks High MR Size 2 Move 2 Amphibious Armored size 2 infantry with protection buffs can soak up a ton of punishment, frost and fire AOE battlefield magic damage is hugely diminished by armor. Lightning is bullshit. Here are some nonsacred heavy infantry units I like: Ice Guard (The best nonsacred heavy infantry imo, Move 2, high hp, great magic weapons, huge protection in cold terrirory, very cheap for what you get in terms of gold, very expensive resource wise so just keep buying them from every fort forever) I can't think of any others I like a lot besides ice guards, but ice guards are really good
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Mar 20, 2014 05:59
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It's not about safety, it's about spreading scales and candles. You want candles in enemy territory if at all possible because otherwise your counts are relegated to a defense force, as they are fragile and lose their main benefit outside your dominion. You also want a high dominion score to spread those o3g3 scales you spent a ton of points on. A throwaway LA Ulm build that isn't retarded: dormant Allfather, dom7, a2s2d4b4, o3g3mis2. You can drop a point of misfortune to drop to a1e1d3, but d4 opens up some nice combat spells if you need them.
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Mar 20, 2014 06:02
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My la ulm build is a Irminsul dormant with d4n9b4 and t3p2c1L3 and I expand early off blessed hochmiesters until I can get get the vampire economy going. It works pretty well.
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Mar 20, 2014 06:17
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Turmoil? Really? On a blood nation with a zillion non-sacred mages guzzling down upkeep and a tendency to poo poo out entirely too many gold-bound rangers?
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Mar 20, 2014 06:31
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The only hard and fast conclusion about LA Ulm I've come to after a multiplayer game is that taking drain is a terrible idea. Neutral or magic 1 will get you absolutely insane research from tons of illuminated ones. Later on you'll be set for some fuckoff huge communions with fortune tellers, vampires, or crystal matrixed priests. Hell, in a pinch you can take a dozen+ illuminated ones and stellar cascade enemies to death.
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Mar 20, 2014 07:04
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TO: Dallan Invictus Nicely done. I've already seen where I could've done better this game. ProfessorCurly fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 07:15
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Eschatos posted:The only hard and fast conclusion about LA Ulm I've come to after a multiplayer game is that taking drain is a terrible idea. Neutral or magic 1 will get you absolutely insane research from tons of illuminated ones. Later on you'll be set for some fuckoff huge communions with fortune tellers, vampires, or crystal matrixed priests. Hell, in a pinch you can take a dozen+ illuminated ones and stellar cascade enemies to death. It saps your research sure, but drain is not that bad when you can recruit mages from any prov with a lab in it.
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Mar 20, 2014 07:27
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LordLeckie posted:Its cool as hell to watch the scouts melt, not to mention really cool that because i have cold scales at atlantis in my game all i get is ice elementals. Vengeful Water also makes invading you extremely annoying because it will murder the hell out of the enemy army's mages.
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Mar 20, 2014 07:27
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NickBlasta posted:It saps your research sure, but drain is not that bad when you can recruit mages from any prov with a lab in it. Let's pretend that the only mages you're recruiting are illuminated ones. Going from drain two to magic one is a 60% research effectiveness boost, which also indirectly manifests as a boost to cost efficiency. Magic scales are much more effective with cheap recruit-anywhere mages like illuminated ones. Two to three RP a turn per mage adds up pretty drat quickly when you're got 100 of em.
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Mar 20, 2014 07:37
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ProfessorCurly posted:TO: Dallan Invictus Ironically you probably would have won if you hadn't split that gigantic army. I honestly wasn't sure how to handle the number disparity until I thought of trying a communion, but I hosed up the scripting (after spending literally an hour combing through the manual and.calculating out fatigue costs.  ) and all the slaves blew up literally the turn after your troops started to rout. You just had to get the last parting shot in, spellcasting AI? Communions! Even when they end well they never end well.
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Mar 20, 2014 13:38
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Ah Phoenix Pyre. It's a fucker.
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Mar 20, 2014 13:59
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NickBlasta posted:It saps your research sure, but drain is not that bad when you can recruit mages from any prov with a lab in it. What on earth are you getting out of your Productivity 2 that is worth a massive decrease in researcher cost efficiency? You know, man, drat, just build more poo poo in your provinces. Your pretender looks like you're trying to make the most out of a single capital.
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Mar 20, 2014 13:59
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MrBims posted:What on earth are you getting out of your Productivity 2 that is worth a massive decrease in researcher cost efficiency?
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Mar 20, 2014 14:04
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jBrereton posted:A million billion Rangers to annoy people with at any stage of the game. You have that without prod scales. Hell, you'd have that with sloth scales because they're so cheap.
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Mar 20, 2014 14:35
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dis astranagant posted:You have that without prod scales. Hell, you'd have that with sloth scales because they're so cheap. You do not. (also Production is and always will be Nasty Indies Insurance so it's kinda understandable to take it in LA)
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Mar 20, 2014 15:21
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All but the absolute nastiest indies (mostly bloodhenge) die to 20-40 rangers scripted properly.
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Mar 20, 2014 15:31
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dis astranagant posted:All but the absolute nastiest indies (mostly bloodhenge) die to 20-40 rangers scripted properly.
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Mar 20, 2014 15:34
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dis astranagant posted:All but the absolute nastiest indies (mostly bloodhenge) die to 20-40 rangers scripted properly. 10 Black Priests with Iron Blizzard and a 100 Rangers are SCARY
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Mar 20, 2014 15:35
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jBrereton posted:Ah Phoenix Pyre. It's a fucker. No Phoenix Pyre (LA Man has really bad odds for fire access), just standard 200-fatigue overcasting deaths that I imagine a bit more dramatically than they actually are.
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Mar 20, 2014 15:40
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Dallan Invictus posted:No Phoenix Pyre (LA Man has really bad odds for fire access), just standard 200-fatigue overcasting deaths that I imagine a bit more dramatically than they actually are. I'm sure it was pretty dramatic... mages passing out from the mystical overload, lying on the ground, twitching. The masters push on, draining more energy from the void and the unconscious slaves. Slowly, eyes start boiling away, brains melting out of ears, finally, as the last few blade winds are hurled at the fleeing enemy, heads start popping like popcorn... skull fragments and pink goo all over the place. It's just that the graphic engine doesn't really do it justice.
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Mar 20, 2014 15:51
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Reposting from signup thread: Alright guys. We've had our fun with NationGen games (ok we'll keep having fun with them because they are rad as hell) but in the meantime, I want to have a game mode that I haven't seen here yet: LA Disciples. One thing I see a lot of in Disciples games is hyper-bless rushes, which makes sense since you can really frontend a lot of power when you bring three nations to bear with a great bless. Late age, however, has a lot more parity in troops hitting really loving hard, and makes it easier to punch through powerful defenses with more magic weapons and heavy hitters amongst the rank and file troops of various nations. So let's give it a go and see how things pan out! Except nobody pick LA Pan, they are truly horrible. - No mods. - Late Age. All nations available - 1 level 3 Throne, 5 level 2 thrones, 10 level 1 thrones (16 pts to win) - Random map 5 teams of 3. These settings seem to be working well in Dom4vstheWorld so I don't see a reason to gently caress with them much. My team is set up here already Team 1: Casual Down to Earth Gamers Ulm - I Love You! <- Pretender Marignon - Hatwer <- Disciple Midgard - murtidash <- Disciple Team 2 - : <- Pretender <- Disciple <- Disciple Team 3 - : <- Pretender <- Disciple <- Disciple Team 4 - : <- Pretender <- Disciple <- Disciple Team 5 - : <- Pretender <- Disciple <- Disicple Teams 2-5 still available! If you want to sign up, but don't have a team, post in the signup thread mentioning you are still looking and we'll reserve a spot. If you'd like to sign up multiple players for one team, just let me know and I'll add them to the list.
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Mar 20, 2014 15:55
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MrBims posted:Your pretender looks like you're trying to make the most out of a single capital. The entire nation is a gimmick, it isn't surprising really.
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Mar 20, 2014 16:22
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Vengeful Water questions: From the manual: "Enemy commanders in your dominion will be attacked by water elementals at random. The size of the water elemental is determined by the availability of water." From the in-game description: "Water in friendly dominions will animate and try to kill enemy commanders whenever possible. This will be more effective in provinces with a rich water supply than in dry provinces." Does dominion strength influence the likelihood of a given commander being attacked? Do you get Ice Elementals instead with Cold scales? What factors into the "availability of water"? Coastline obviously, but what else? Does being near but not actually on the coast matter? Some maps depict rivers; is proximity to a river something that is programmed into the attributes of a province, and if so does that help? Are farmlands considered to be more lush and watery than wastelands? Do Growth scales indicate lushness and water availability? thanks
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Mar 20, 2014 18:29
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Shachar posted:Vengeful Water questions: quote:Do you get Ice Elementals instead with Cold scales? quote:What factors into the "availability of water"? Coastline obviously, but what else? Does being near but not actually on the coast matter? Some maps depict rivers; is proximity to a river something that is programmed into the attributes of a province, and if so does that help? Are farmlands considered to be more lush and watery than wastelands? Do Growth scales indicate lushness and water availability?
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Mar 20, 2014 18:37
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Yes Great, thank you. Do you know whether it is a chance for each enemy commander in a province, or limited numbers of attacks per province but with a high likelihood (which would explain high enemy scout losses.) I'm trying to weigh its value to blunt an attack from MA Abyssia (I'm MA Caelum). I'm hoping the spell would make it costly for him to bring lots of casters for communions.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:50
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It just might work! Protip to Abysia in this instance: Blood Sac against this guy.
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Mar 20, 2014 19:00
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NickBlasta posted:Awake is not always better. Awake is better for nations who need their pretender for early expansion, and LA Ulm does not, your starting army itself is enough to destroy any indies. Prophetize your commander of Ulm and use your Ranger Commander to ferry him new Rangers each turn. Expand as fast as possible for that sweet gold. This will make people not like you, but rangers are really good at keeping you alive. Hm, I can definitely see taking a dormant rainbow for Ulm, but this isn't the right build for it. A Great Sage is completely wasted if not taken Awake; the only real bonus to the chassis is its RP bonus, which as LA Ulm you absolutely do not require past turn 14 or so because you have the completely absurd RP machine that is fortless Illuminated ones. In addition, Drain 2 is anti-synergistic on Ulm, Cold 2 will put you in Severe Cold for 25% of the year, and you've got the prod for troops when the build is set up for mage+ranger spam which while it isn't awful needs to prioritize a bit. F1 is unfortunately useless. By the time you can make the fire Archdevils, the time for Flaming Arrows will be so far past it isn't even funny anymore. Also to boost to F2 from F1D1 will require const 6. So in order to wield Flaming Arrows, you expect to have Const 6, Ench 4, and Blood 7? At that stage you're well into summons, fog warriors, vamp hive swarms and tart spam territory. Even at effective H4 preaching is still ineffective at maintaining dominion where you need it. Saying that Ulm doesn't want to push dom is ridiculous. Every enemy province you get into your dom is one more place your vamps can operate with impunity. If you can maintain a push without preaching support (which is an asset the enemy can target, whereas temple checks are not), then you increase your flexibility and decrease opportunity costs. Thug factory is foolish. What you want is to hit blood 7 and start cranking either Curse of Blood or Blood Rite. I think in Dom4 Curse of Blood is actually more efficient. Once you have several dozen TROOP vampires then the fun starts. NickBlasta posted:Probably not as much as you think. Vampires are only kinda-sorta okay at combat (though a suicide summon Lammashtas/respawn at home strat is pretty funny) and when they die they respawn with 3-4 afflictions that take quite awhile to go away. I've been offensively dom pushed in a few multi games and it's never worked for my opponent, any army of size you have is gonna be led by Black Priests and they can pretty much destroy any quantity of black candles with preach. I really don't understand this. This is a prose-heavy explanation on how you abuse vampires. It isn't really that good a guide, but it gets the point across. Offensive dom pushes with immortals are dangerous because you cannot win attrition against an army that doesn't spend any more than the gems & slaves they're carrying. With vamps its doubly dangerous because they can just fly in and snap up any province in-dom that isn't defended by an army. If you weren't feeling the attrition I can't say you've actually faced a proper offensive dompush. NickBlasta posted:It saps your research sure, but drain is not that bad when you can recruit mages from any prov with a lab in it. This basically proves the point against it. If you have dozens of low-cost and low-rp mages, Drain is much worse. You pay a massively increased upfront and upkeep for the same RP. Drain works when you have smaller numbers of elite mages. dtkozl posted:My la ulm build is a Irminsul dormant with d4n9b4 and t3p2c1L3 and I expand early off blessed hochmiesters until I can get get the vampire economy going. It works pretty well. I actually like the Turmoil build because at least it's focused on A Thing rather than a headless chicken. You sacrifice a bit in the Illuminated+Rangers spam but gain a lot in armored troops / vamp horde. Maybe it's not optimal, but at least it's trying a strategy. Shachar posted:Vengeful Water questions: No one knows what the availability of water is. Sorry. You do get Ice Elementals and domstrength does affect the attack frequency.
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Mar 20, 2014 19:11
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So LA Ulm is supposed to play a bit like 20 rp Philosopher Arco?
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Mar 20, 2014 19:43
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yeah, except instead of relying on a single cap only unit you get to recruit mages without waiting on forts. Either Illuminated Ones for gold efficiency or Members of the Second Tier so you have useful dudes when you're done with research. Members have the added bonus of making your labs a real pain to raid once you research stellar cascades and/or paralyze.
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Mar 20, 2014 19:48
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NickBlasta posted:...  That's not right is it?
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Mar 20, 2014 19:51
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FnF posted:
It is until next patch. The arrow part is blocked but the fire part isn't right now.
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Mar 20, 2014 19:53
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