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BiggerBoat posted:Also, labeling Tony a "sociopath" is too simplistic IMO - too broad - and I maintain that the primary "failure" of his treatment isn't entirely what Melfi read but rather the complete incompatibility between what therapy is designed to treat and the inherent dishonestly required from someone in Tony's line of work. We see him dancing around poo poo all the time and making up stories for what happened to people that he was directly responsible for murdering (Chris, Pussy, Ralph, Ritchie). How can a person get into any sort of healing mechanism this way? The central theme of the article Melfi was reading was that the sociopath "uses" therapy to make himself a better liar and such but I don't see it that way entirely. If anything, Tony's treatment overall made him a LESS effective mob boss, since the two things simply can't conflate and all the things you learn in therapy fly directly in the face of the things that make you capable of running a criminal enterprise (empathy, sensitivity, forgiveness, introspection, honesty). I think the way he steadfastly refused to acknowledge his dad's faults, even outside of the context of his criminal life, is another big piece of his refusal to engage with therapy. The fact is that Tony had no interest in changing who he was, or in examining the lovely role models he looked up to as he was becoming the man he was in the series. He wanted to do the minimum amount possible to get things like panic attacks under control while still having the ability to do whatever else he wanted to whoever else got in his way. Whether or not he was a sociopath by nature, the takeway is exactly the same, because the end result was that he was using therapy to be a more effective criminal, as the paper suggested.
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May 13, 2020 00:00
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I never really understood why Butchie was so quick to flip on Phil, though, I thought he'd have a lot more animosity towards Tony after the scene in the diner where Tony curbstomps Coco. Tony shoved the gun right in Butchie's face, really reveling in making Butchie feel helpless, daring Butchie to try to stop him while he beat his friend half to death. I mean, sure, money is everything with these people, but Butchie (and Phil) in particular seem like the kind of people who are going to let their emotions lead after being made to feel small and having their bubble of invulnerability pierced like that. And it didn't seem like the New York crew was doing that badly if they were taking business off of New Jersey while Tony's crew was in hiding.
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May 13, 2020 00:06
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Janice probably won't use the specific words "He was a saint!" but Domenica is probably gonna grow up being guilt tripped a lot about the martyred father she barely remembers.
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May 13, 2020 00:06
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Phenotype posted:I never really understood why Butchie was so quick to flip on Phil, though, I thought he'd have a lot more animosity towards Tony after the scene in the diner where Tony curbstomps Coco. Tony shoved the gun right in Butchie's face, really reveling in making Butchie feel helpless, daring Butchie to try to stop him while he beat his friend half to death. I mean, sure, money is everything with these people, but Butchie (and Phil) in particular seem like the kind of people who are going to let their emotions lead after being made to feel small and having their bubble of invulnerability pierced like that. And it didn't seem like the New York crew was doing that badly if they were taking business off of New Jersey while Tony's crew was in hiding. To me, Phil sounded kind of threatening when he was talking about having a meeting with Butchie after things settled down. He was blaming Butchie for things going to poo poo, and even if that wasn't totally unearned since Butchie was the one pushing for confrontation before Phil went overboard, between that and Phil going AWOL and leaving any blowback to fall on him and the other guys (and immediately rejecting any hint of negotiation), I think he decided he was better off without him. Presumably there was pressure from guys on the ground and the other Families too, but we never got that kind of detail about New York. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 00:14 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 00:12
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Also remember for all their talk of being real men and how pathetic and useless the glorified crew of The Sopranos were... they tried to take out their leadership in one quick unadvertised strike. When that failed, they're suddenly faced with the prospect of a now pissed off and unified Soprano Family (the efforts to turn key guys via Burt failed entirely) being out there somewhere who would eventually come after them if they couldn't get to Phil (just like they once considered going after Christopher when they couldn't get Tony B) and that isn't something they want: they just wanna go back to the everyday easy life of scoring money for little effort. The scene where Butchie ends up in Chinatown is very telling. The mighty Lupertazzi Family is itself a somewhat pathetic little island of waning influence in a wider world that is more and more alien to them. It only takes Butchie a minute to walk out of his home territory and into an uncharted world he doesn't understand. His confused look and quick rush back to the increasingly smaller Little Italy is a good representation of how alone and uncertain he feels now that Phil has gone to ground and refuses to even meet his Number 1 guy in person. Contrast that with Tony, who for all his issues is at least hunkered down with his men and present in their lives. The worst thing he does in their eyes is find excuses not to visit Silvio, but Phil is just absent from his guys' lives entirely.
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May 13, 2020 00:19
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Jerusalem posted:The scene where Butchie ends up in Chinatown is very telling. The mighty Lupertazzi Family is itself a somewhat pathetic little island of waning influence in a wider world that is more and more alien to them. It only takes Butchie a minute to walk out of his home territory and into an uncharted world he doesn't understand. His confused look and quick rush back to the increasingly smaller Little Italy is a good representation of how alone and uncertain he feels now that Phil has gone to ground and refuses to even meet his Number 1 guy in person. Contrast that with Tony, who for all his issues is at least hunkered down with his men and present in their lives. The worst thing he does in their eyes is find excuses not to visit Silvio, but Phil is just absent from his guys' lives entirely. I'm still absorbing the whole thing but holy hell, what an effective scene! As soon as you started to describe it I remembered "oh yeah, that scene where they kinda shot in in a panoramic, rolling shot. that was odd. why'd they do that anyway?" It really was a good, short scene that let the camera tell the story instead of the script. Once you broke it down (how'd I miss the obvious part at the beginning about the size having shrunk in the past decades?) it was so obvious that even though shot in a big, active place in NYC, Butchie is feeling claustrophobic as hell - probably as Phil does in his hideout - whereas the Sopranos are jetting here and there all over NJ and NY.
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May 13, 2020 00:47
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Jerusalem posted:While I agree that Tony's therapy was largely doomed by the clash between his "job" and his desire to resolve his issues, I do think you can't discount that Tony himself was largely to blame because he refused to engage with therapy beyond the surface level. That's sort of what I was trying to say though. How CAN he engage "beyond the surface level" when he has to tap dance around 90% of what he does that is completely detrimental to a person's mental health? For legal reasons or otherwise? He's killed and tortured people (often close family members), and dismembered bodies, but he can never talk about it. He CAN'T do deeper engagement because of his job and the way he earns his money. Full stop. So many of his stories with Melfi involve made up protagonists and are told in made up ways that excuse his direct involvement by substituting a "friend of a friend" and "distant cousins" for people he pretends to be close with. There is no deeper engagement possible unless he confesses to his crimes. And he can't do that. I would think killing several people would weigh rather heavily on a person's mental health and overall psyche. Unless you're talking about him conflating his Mother and father issues and the reasons he does those things, in the first place, in which case to him are just part of his job. The only way towards better mental health in his case amounts to "don't be in the mafia" and that's a non starter for him and his lifestyle. See also: Carmela's frank assessment from the one therapist that basically told her to run, get out, leave your husband, stop making excuses for the blood money you adore so much and get back to me when you're ready to Get Serious about the things that are bothering you. Everything else short of doing exactly that is window dressing and just jerking off your therapist. Sort of like knowing you need to stop drinking or doing/dealing drugs because it's loving your poo poo up but all you do in session is go on about the horrible relationships and professional problems you have that stem from your behavior and bad habits. In Tony's case, to get to the root of ANYTHING, he'd have to first confess to murder, no?
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May 13, 2020 00:49
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Sinteres posted:To me, Phil sounded kind of threatening when he was talking about having a meeting with Butchie after things settled down. He was blaming Butchie for things going to poo poo, and even if that wasn't totally unearned since Butchie was the one pushing for confrontation before Phil went overboard, between that and Phil going AWOL and leaving any blowback to fall on him and the other guys (and immediately rejecting any hint of negotiation), I think he decided he was better off without him. Presumably there was pressure from guys on the ground and the other Families too, but we never got that kind of detail about New York. New York tends to want things the way Carmine Sr. did - peaceful and profitable. The last Colombo War was only about a decade ago before the finale and it's not a super hard stretch to imagine the rest of the Five Families throw a really firebrand boss under the bus to keep that from happening again, especially coming at it from the 'well, it's just the Lupertazzi's beef with Jersey' angle.
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May 13, 2020 00:53
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Jerusalem posted:
I think Elliot got under her skin and that embarrassing dinner table conversation triggered her. Elliot's an rear end in a top hat. To say nothing of her having to go into actual hiding once and needing to meet with her patient in secrecy, along with Tony's occasional violent outbursts and moments of sexual aggression towards her. Seems to me she realized she can't help him either so long as they have to use pronouns and platitudes to discuss his actual behavior during their sessions. And that was never going to happen. The article she read was basically an excuse for her to cut it off, egged on by her own mentor and therapist. Jerusalem posted:He skipped sessions because "gently caress that bullshit", he assumed paying his bills meant that Melfi would simply serve up "mental health" like it was a meal at a restaurant. He was a passive participant, who flirted with deeper engagement but always pulled back the moment she had him in uncomfortable territory. He took any excuse he could find not to make the effort, or mistook feeling exhausted with having made effort, and of course he could always fall back on "I can't elaborate further" as an easy out for when he wanted to shut down the conversation. I guess I'm saying I don't find the things I wrote about and what you point out to be mutually exclusive BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:04 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 00:59
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Jerusalem posted:
Hey hey, it's all good. Thanks for clearing it up.
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May 13, 2020 01:06
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Phenotype posted:I never really understood why Butchie was so quick to flip on Phil, though, I thought he'd have a lot more animosity towards Tony after the scene in the diner where Tony curbstomps Coco. Tony shoved the gun right in Butchie's face, really reveling in making Butchie feel helpless, daring Butchie to try to stop him while he beat his friend half to death. I mean, sure, money is everything with these people, but Butchie (and Phil) in particular seem like the kind of people who are going to let their emotions lead after being made to feel small and having their bubble of invulnerability pierced like that. And it didn't seem like the New York crew was doing that badly if they were taking business off of New Jersey while Tony's crew was in hiding. I always got the sense that Butchie was as loyal and as tough as those surrounding him and whoever had the upper hand. A coward who went along with whoever was the tough guy at the moment. An opportunistic bully basically. Or just a bully. If the seasons went on and Tony's crew "won the war", he'd be the first guy in line to talk about what an rear end in a top hat Phil was, etc., and try to worm his way onto the winning team. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 01:09
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Maybe its a coincidence but I like that Tony is, to some extent, giving AJ Christophers dream of working with movies as a way out of being killed in the army. If he had let Christopher go to pursue his own dream of film making (before it was too late and Chris joinied his own "Army") maybe he wouldn't have grown to resent Tony and come to the end he inevitably came to. These guys love to refer to themselves as soldiers a lot and use military terminology and that prob isnt lost on Tony. This could also not just be a way to save his own son but a way to do right by Chris after the fact?
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May 13, 2020 01:14
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I feel like, Butchie didn't expect a prolonged period of going to the mattresses for both families. He expected the hits on Tony and Sil and Bobby to be quick and over with soon. It's not just money, I think, it's general safety too. No one is making money and everyone is worried about being casualties of war. Phil's refusal to talk a truce meant everybody, Butchie included, was still in danger. It was selfish of Phil - still wanted revenge over Tony B, presumably, and that is putting the whole Lupertazzi family in danger. Butchie can't abide that anymore.
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May 13, 2020 01:16
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banned from Starbucks posted:Maybe its a coincidence but I like that Tony is, to some extent, giving AJ Christophers dream of working with movies as a way out of being killed in the army. If he had let Christopher go to pursue his own dream of film making (before it was too late and Chris joinied his own "Army") maybe he wouldn't have grown to resent Tony and come to the end he inevitably came to. These guys love to refer to themselves as soldiers a lot and use military terminology and that prob isnt lost on Tony. This could also not just be a way to save his own son but a way to do right by Chris after the fact? That's an interesting idea, definitely, but I'm not completely certain that Tony has the introspection for that kind of thing - it could've been unconscious though.
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May 13, 2020 01:18
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BiggerBoat posted:I guess I'm saying I don't find the things I wrote about and what you point out to be mutually exclusive Yeah I think we're both largely making the same point but emphasizing different aspects of why his therapy failed for the most part. Divorcing him from the fact he's a criminal/murderer (which, to be fair, isn't actually possible) I'm focusing more on the fact that he was coming at therapy from the POV of a guy used to paying for problems to be dealt with for him. There were plenty of times that Melfi was pushing him to come to a realization about his life, his beliefs and his mindset that had nothing explicitly to do with his criminal life (again, in reality you can't separate the two, he's not "two Tonys" like he claimed) but that he resisted, either consciously or subconsciously because he didn't want to have to deal with that... he just wanted it "fixed" and blamed her for not achieving it. banned from Starbucks posted:Maybe its a coincidence but I like that Tony is, to some extent, giving AJ Christophers dream of working with movies as a way out of being killed in the army. If he had let Christopher go to pursue his own dream of film making (before it was too late and Chris joinied his own "Army") maybe he wouldn't have grown to resent Tony and come to the end he inevitably came to. These guys love to refer to themselves as soldiers a lot and use military terminology and that prob isnt lost on Tony. This could also not just be a way to save his own son but a way to do right by Chris after the fact? Personally I think it's more an example of his hypocrisy. He tries to deny Christopher his dream, looks down his nose at it, ends up hating what Christopher made and murdering him... then basically just hands over that dream in a complete package to his son who never showed any interest in it before. The parallels between Christopher and AJ were always interesting, because one was the son he seemed to wish he had who he grew to hate, and the other was the son he seemed to be embarrassed by that he ended up giving everything to on a silver platter.
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May 13, 2020 01:30
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I felt like Tony spoiled AJ because he didn't know any other way to reach him. Like, I recall Carmela asking about his grades once, maybe twice, compared with Meadow who's thinking about school/the future even when she's out partying.
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May 13, 2020 01:37
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah I think we're both largely making the same point but emphasizing different aspects of why his therapy failed for the most part. Divorcing him from the fact he's a criminal/murderer (which, to be fair, isn't actually possible) I'm focusing more on the fact that he was coming at therapy from the POV of a guy used to paying for problems to be dealt with for him. There were plenty of times that Melfi was pushing him to come to a realization about his life, his beliefs and his mindset that had nothing explicitly to do with his criminal life (again, in reality you can't separate the two, he's not "two Tonys" like he claimed) but that he resisted, either consciously or subconsciously because he didn't want to have to deal with that... he just wanted it "fixed" and blamed her for not achieving it. I think we're in agreement here. Jerusalem posted:
Also worth pointing out he killed his one "son" while the other tried to kill himself. In spite of all he "gave" to both of them Starting to think this Tony Soprano dude is not a good person/parent. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:42 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 01:38
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BiggerBoat posted:Starting to think this Tony Soprano dude is not a good person/parent. Wonder if Tony gets it from his mom and dad. Do they touch on that in the show at all?
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May 13, 2020 01:52
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BiggerBoat posted:Starting to think this Tony Soprano dude is not a good person/parent. Uhhh I don't think they'd make a 7 season show about a bad person, BiggerBoat... c'mon man, we're trying to have a serious discussion here!  In all seriousness though, I got to thinking just now about of all things the parallel between Tony's therapy and his exercise equipment, and it was actually him picking up AJ during his run that sparked the thought for me. Tony owns all this expensive equipment that he rarely ever uses, and often then only in fits and bursts accompanied by overconsumption in other areas. A frequent refrain he makes when seeing healthier, fitter people is to express admiration before self-deprecatingly noting that he has to get back to exercise himself. Note that the one time somebody responds by saying they'd be happy to write him up a fitness program he ignores it. I feel like for Tony, therapy is a lot like that exercise equipment. He put a lot of money into it, he shows up every so often and he puts in the bare effort, but he largely doesn't really try beyond token efforts and he ignores or dismisses the help offered by others, then goes and overindulges in activities that are directly opposed to his efforts to "get fit". Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 02:10
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Ishamael posted:Thanks again Jerusalem, I appreciate all the effort. Looking at those screenshots in Jerusalem’s post made me realize that young adult AJ looks like a young Aaron Paul.
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May 13, 2020 02:23
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Jerusalem posted:Uhhh I don't think they'd make a 7 season show about a bad person, BiggerBoat... c'mon man, we're trying to have a serious discussion here! Love it, spot on.
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May 13, 2020 02:33
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They sort of dropped Tony's primal scream workout regime as a plot point.
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May 13, 2020 02:35
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Hey, Coos. I can't werewolf out over here with you listening. *raps Cusamano's shoulder lightly* Just kiddin'. How's the practice?
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May 13, 2020 02:38
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Jerusalem posted:I feel like for Tony, therapy is a lot like that exercise equipment. He put a lot of money into it, he shows up every so often and he puts in the bare effort, but he largely doesn't really try beyond token efforts and he ignores or dismisses the help offered by others, then goes and overindulges in activities that are directly opposed to his efforts to "get fit". I never felt like he had the makings of a varsity athlete. Which in, again, seriousness, while that's me having fun it's also telling that Tony thinks THAT is a main source of his family trauma.
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May 13, 2020 03:22
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Sinteres posted:To me, Phil sounded kind of threatening when he was talking about having a meeting with Butchie after things settled down. He was blaming Butchie for things going to poo poo, and even if that wasn't totally unearned since Butchie was the one pushing for confrontation before Phil went overboard, between that and Phil going AWOL and leaving any blowback to fall on him and the other guys (and immediately rejecting any hint of negotiation), I think he decided he was better off without him. Presumably there was pressure from guys on the ground and the other Families too, but we never got that kind of detail about New York. Exactly, that's the moment when Butchie finally realizes that nothing is ever going to be good enough for Phil. He's got this weird chip on his shoulder and he's driven by some vague, deep-seated personal grudges, even though he was "rewarded" for doing his time behind bars by rising to the top of the family pretty quickly after his release. As long as he's in charge, it's everybody else who is going to take the fall for every issue that arises, even if it's a result of his actions. (He's only slightly worse than Tony in that way, but...it's enough to make the difference.) Also, given that Phil's finally got a taste for blood having attempted to wipe out the Soprano crew, who knows how long until he decides that he could solve a lot of problems within his own organization in the exact same manner. That promise of a "sit down" definitely sounded very different to Butchie in that moment than Phil probably intended. So if Tony reaches out, eager to take care of this issue, netting Butchie a promotion in the process...that's a golden opportunity. ruddiger posted:Looking at those screenshots in Jerusalem’s post made me realize that young adult AJ looks like a young Aaron Paul. When the show originally aired, I wasn't watching live, and I just watched the final scene out of curiosity after the backlash. I was only vaguely aware of the plot and the characters, and remember thinking at the time "Wait, this old guy has been playing AJ? I thought he was supposed to be a teenager." Now I watch the final season and repeatedly think "Geez, AJ is still just a child here." Robert Iler is younger than me by about 6 months 
JethroMcB fucked around with this message at 16:51 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 13:08
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I'm late to the 'suggest shows for Jerusalem' party but I'd love to read Jerusalem's recaps of The Americans. Like the Wire and the Sopranos, I think there's a lot there for Jerusalem to work with.
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May 13, 2020 15:52
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Butchie talks a big game but he's always cowardly when the chips are down. When Tony has a gun in his face, he backs off. When the war doesn't instantly go Phil's way, Butchie wants a truce. Like Jersualem said these guys want easy money and they don't give a poo poo about Phil's crusade. Once it became apparent that a quick win was off the table it was inevitable they'd want to settle.
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May 13, 2020 16:22
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Ginette Reno posted:Butchie talks a big game but he's always cowardly when the chips are down. When Tony has a gun in his face, he backs off. When the war doesn't instantly go Phil's way, Butchie wants a truce. Yup, Butchie is a chickenhawk. Down to start a scrap, but only if he doesn't have to take the hits.
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May 13, 2020 19:47
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I do think condensing that much of a character shift in one scene like that was a lot. The show just wasn't super interested in that sort of detail.
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May 13, 2020 20:11
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Can't wait for the spiritual successor to Dexter where it's the Leotardo grandchildren becoming serial killers, with sexy results
codo27 fucked around with this message at 22:51 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 21:31
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Something I noticed on rewatch is that it wasn't any one enemy that took him down, it was a bunch of them working together. Yes the DiMeo family provides the triggerman, but they only found him thanks to an FBI agent upset over Leotardo going after one of his undercovers, and Leotardo alienating enough of his key supporters in his own family that there was a promise of no retaliation.
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May 13, 2020 22:29
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Jerusalem posted:it's called Anti-Virus, about a private detective sucked into the Internet through his "data-port" who has to solve crimes involving virtual prostitutes One of the funniest lines in the show, and that's a high bar.
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May 14, 2020 04:41
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After re-reading the recap of Made In America, I think that another reason the blackout dominates conversation is that it isn't that eventful of an episode. Whereas Blue Comet rocked the foundations of the show, MiA was a lot quieter. Other than The End looming over everything, this could have been a mid-season-3 episode. The plot lines are fairly small and the resolutions are a bit open-ended. The scene with Junior is an all-timer, but the rest is fairly mundane, considering the bloodbath that was seeming inevitable. -AJ sucks, then gets a job -there's a funeral -dinner at Vesuvio -A sit-down with NY -Janice being annoying and selfish in the midst of actual trouble The hit on Phil and the final conversation with Uncle Junior are big deals, but the rest doesn't move with the same pace as the previous episode. So the gimmick ending is not only a focus because of the unexpected nature of it, but also because there wasn't a lot else to talk about. So I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that I was wrong, let's move on to discussing the ending.
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May 14, 2020 15:08
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It might just be because I know it's the last episode so I view it through that lens, but most of the scenes in the back half of the episode feel like they have a real finality to them, like they were specifically going out of their way to wrap up character arcs even if that didn't end their personal story. AJ resolves his downward spiral post-Blanca, Meadow's education "pays off" in a satisfactory way for Carmela, and both Soprano kids end up well on the path to selling out any ideals they ever had or claimed to have in favor of maintaining close ties with the family "business" and making money. Paulie ends up getting the big responsibility he saw younger man after younger man be given before him. Janice has finally fully (and unknowingly) settled into the groove of becoming her mother (thanks The Vosgian Beast, I hadn't considered but you're absolutely right about how Janice is going to bombard her kids with an idealized version of Bobby as they grow up). Carmela has found a workable (for her) balance between mother, wife and "independent" woman at last, and is satisfied with how her kids are doing at least for the time being. Tony finally faced Junior as mentioned. Even Patsy finally gets his "revenge" on Tony by becoming an integral part of his life without Tony really having any say in the matter unless Patrick and Meadow divorced (or never married). A lot of it works even outside of the context of this being the final episode thanks to the scene with Mink, which kicks off Tony's obvious ticking off things that need to be settled just in case. It really feels like a lot of things that had been building over a long period of time came to a head in this episode, it's just that there was a bit of a bait and switch by setting up what looked like a violent mobwar at the end of The Blue Comet only to quickly resolve that and then get back to the thing the show had always had a stronger focus on: the characters, their dynamics with each other, and Tony's issues when it came to dealing with them. In any case, I'll write up the final scene this weekend. It's only a few minutes but I plan to write A LOT about them.
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May 14, 2020 15:30
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One thing that stands out to me upon reflection is Paulie sitting alone outside Satriale's (well, plus the cat). How many times did we see like half a dozen made guys out there with him, or more? And they're all either dead, in a coma or I guess in Furio's case still lambchopping it in Italy.
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May 14, 2020 17:55
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its probably one of the better shots in the finale, a true look at the final results of all the decay throughout the show. Tony says he feels like he came in at the end, and there it is: an old man and a cat he hates. the books are closed and the damage is done, another reason why it doesnt really matter if tony gets got at the very end. hes already dead
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May 14, 2020 18:07
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Is there a good overview to what the federal case against tony would be with Carlo on the stand. Obviously they have the gun the kid scooped out of the snow but did Carlo witness directly any big crimes. Is there any indication that he might have been flipped already with a wire, it seems the feds don't like just testimony without recorded audio.
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May 14, 2020 18:40
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i always interpreted it that carlo got flipped, was wired when talking about finding and killing phil, and the info being leaked to tony was some grey area entrapment style poo poo, which was what prompted the "WE GOT HIM" reaction, and not harris identifying with tony or anything like that. he was happy about phils death but also that he had a murder he could use to show the direct chain of command of the soprano family in a legal case
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May 14, 2020 18:51
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Paper Lion posted:i always interpreted it that carlo got flipped, was wired when talking about finding and killing phil, and the info being leaked to tony was some grey area entrapment style poo poo, which was what prompted the "WE GOT HIM" reaction, and not harris identifying with tony or anything like that. he was happy about phils death but also that he had a murder he could use to show the direct chain of command of the soprano family in a legal case It was a reference to a real life FBI agent who said something similar and later got busted leaking information to organized crime.
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May 14, 2020 19:23
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Carlo could testify to a lot to build a RICO case against Tony and a bunch of other individuals in the family. Anything Tony told Carlo to do could be a part of a RICO case and he could generally testify to everything he had knowledge of
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May 14, 2020 20:04
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