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Confused Llama posted:Right... so what if Asumu gave birth to Battler before her name was Ushiromiya, is what I'm saying. Although that probably is overcomplicating things, especially since, as you point out, Battler still has to be Kinzo's grandchild. Except we get confirmation from Kyrie that Rudolf and Asumu got married while Asumu was still pregnant.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:30
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it seems more leading Asumu had the miscarriage, but Kyrie didn't - though given her "eighteen years of jealousy" speech, you would think she'd mention Asumu not only stealing her man but her firstborn child.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:36
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Rudolf's "I never got to tell them" in episode 6 suggests that Kyrie still doesn't know
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Aug 18, 2017 17:42
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kyrie was really high on painkillers, don't judge.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:51
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Probably Nanjo did the delivery. You know how much he loves to declare people dead when they aren't.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:02
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Something I also feel should be considered is why Rudolf seems prescient to the fact that he's gonna die. How is he involved in this/what does he know that causes that trigger? How much regarding Yasu is he aware of?ZiegeDame posted:Ok, what's most interesting from this update is the fact that the crime occurred specifically because Battler returned in 1986, that if it happened a year earlier or later, no murders. So what about 1986 specifically makes it such a big deal? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that's when George proposes to Shannon. One year earlier and she can dump George (if they're even dating in 1985, they probably haven't been for long) and confront Battler directly. One year later and she's already Ushiromiya Sayo and even if she does go the the family conference with George she probably pranks Battler pretty hard but she could already be on the way to unifying personas or whatever so no need to go to great extremes. But in 1986 the stage is set for a final battle between different personas and whoops Beato is the one who specializes in executing unsolvable crimes. This seems like the most likely explanation to me.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:15
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ZiegeDame posted:Except we get confirmation from Kyrie that Rudolf and Asumu got married while Asumu was still pregnant. At least, to her knowledge, they did. *shrug* I'm not saying it's not a reach. I'm mostly just hung up on this question of Battler's parentage because it got so heavily lampshaded and then... we seem to have forgotten all about it. We've gotten a LOT more about Shannon and Yasu and a bunch of confirmation of stuff we'd already pretty much worked out, but Battler's parentage and what it has to do with all of this still seems like an enormous loose end.
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Aug 18, 2017 19:35
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I wonder how Beatrice/Yasu even found out. Rudolf doesn't seem like the type to spill his secrets easily. If they find out at the same time they find out about their own heritage that could add to the reasons they were upset with him, one illegitimate child gets to join the family, one gets made into a servant and bullied for years.
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Aug 18, 2017 21:41
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        Welcome back, Prof. EagerSleeper fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 21:47
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ZiegeDame posted:Rudolf's "I never got to tell them" in episode 6 suggests that Kyrie still doesn't know God though, what an awful thing to do to someone. If this is true, Rudolf literally stole Kyrie's baby and replaced him with a corpse so that he could keep playing Happy Families with Asumu, because it was inconvenient that Kyrie's son lived while Asumu's didn't. And as chill as Kyrie tries to play it, the death of her son clearly hurt her very deeply. How could someone who loved her do that to her? Was Rudolf trying to save his own hide in this hypothetical, or spare Asumu's feelings? Did he justify it to himself as protecting Asumu? But there's a difference between your loved one having a miscarriage and grieving and you replacing your loved one's baby with a corpse and them grieving over a 'miscarriage'. One of those is natural, a tragedy but one nobody is at fault with. The second is... literally one of the most hosed up things I can imagine someone doing, although not as hosed up as stuff Kinzo did. EDIT: It also means Kyrie's assertation that if her son had lived and Asumu's had died, Rudolf would have chosen her, very very incorrect, because in this hypothetical situation, exactly that happened, and instead Rudolf swapped the living baby with the corpse, because he's a goddamn coward who can't deal with difficult situations but also won't stop claiming to love two women at once while deeply hurting both of them. 
PetraCore fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 22:07
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This whole family is a trash fire. Rudolf is just Crown Prince Shitheap.
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Aug 18, 2017 22:15
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PetraCore posted:God though, what an awful thing to do to someone. If this is true, Rudolf literally stole Kyrie's baby and replaced him with a corpse so that he could keep playing Happy Families with Asumu, because it was inconvenient that Kyrie's son lived while Asumu's didn't. And as chill as Kyrie tries to play it, the death of her son clearly hurt her very deeply. How could someone who loved her do that to her? Was Rudolf trying to save his own hide in this hypothetical, or spare Asumu's feelings? Did he justify it to himself as protecting Asumu? My best guess, based on how everyone has been characterized thus far, is that it was Kinzo's idea, and either Rudolf was threatened with disinheritance if he didn't play along or he just outright wasn't told about it until after the deed was already done. Stealing Kyrie's baby to preserve the honor of the Ushiromiya family doesn't sound like something Rudolf would be capable of, but Kinzo could do it without breaking a sweat.
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Aug 19, 2017 03:38
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ZiegeDame posted:My best guess, based on how everyone has been characterized thus far, is that it was Kinzo's idea, and either Rudolf was threatened with disinheritance if he didn't play along or he just outright wasn't told about it until after the deed was already done. Stealing Kyrie's baby to preserve the honor of the Ushiromiya family doesn't sound like something Rudolf would be capable of, but Kinzo could do it without breaking a sweat. Also remember that Kyries family also could have played a part in that decision as well. Considering how they REALLY would have loved to get the Ushiromiya money and gain political capital to take over. In fact thats most likely the reason that he pulled that. Its a terrible decision and he probably guessed that when he told battler and Kyrie one of them would kill him for his sins. mmm.....could Yasu have found out from kinzo? In one of Kinzos many insane rages over how pathetic his children are (in front of his personal servants) he could have let it slip about battlers true origins. He probably would have framed it as him saving their family from the claws of the Sumatas (i think thats their name?) and kept ranting about Rudolfs poor decision making skills in choosing women.
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Aug 19, 2017 03:54
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ZiegeDame posted:My best guess, based on how everyone has been characterized thus far, is that it was Kinzo's idea, and either Rudolf was threatened with disinheritance if he didn't play along or he just outright wasn't told about it until after the deed was already done. Stealing Kyrie's baby to preserve the honor of the Ushiromiya family doesn't sound like something Rudolf would be capable of, but Kinzo could do it without breaking a sweat. I dunno... I think Rudolf could do it, but only if he thought that a) somehow everything would work out well and b) that if he didn't do it, everything would be Ruined Forever. Which isn't really an excuse, just... I think Rudolf is at the heart of things a coward who is willing to do some pretty despicable things to avoid things he's scared of, like how he's been constantly cheating on both Asumu and Kyrie. You can argue that both Asumu and Kyrie knew going in how he was, but I still don't think his 'have your cake and eat it too' stance is okay, especially since it's clearly hurt Kyrie very deeply and very personally for at least 20-ish years. We dunno how Asumu felt but I'm presuming not good. Let's see, what else do we know that Rudolf has done... it's pretty clear he's a criminal, but that's not exactly unusual in the Ushiromiya family, and there's a difference emotionally between scamming a stranger and doing something of that magnitude to two women you love. Because this scenario is not fair to Asumu, either. She never got to hypothetically grieve her own son, and instead raised Battler, who she clearly loved, but... Anyway. I don't think Rudolf would do it for the honor of the Ushiromiya family. I don't think he cares about the honor of the Ushiromiya family. But he cared about Asumu, and he cared about not imploding his house of cards, and he cares about Battler, so... can we make those pieces fit into this act?
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Aug 19, 2017 04:09
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I think PetraCore is right on the money, actually.
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Aug 19, 2017 04:13
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I want to believe in Rudolf the reindeer so I'm gonna side with Ziege here.
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Aug 19, 2017 04:15
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Oh, hey, this is back. And my brother's first born is 1 week old today. gently caress Rudolf. And gently caress Kinzo, for producing someone like Rudolf. Now that that's out of the way, there's something that's been bothering me. Mostly about George; I have this weird feeling that the other shoe is gonna drop regarding him, that he did something really bad, and is trying to make up for it by treating Shannon nicely. Something just seems off about their relationship... But seriously. After gaining my nephew, I have gained a new hatred for Rudolf. Is there no one directly related to Kinzo who no one wants to put a shovel through the face?
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Aug 19, 2017 04:21
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I also wanna say that the more we learn about what a flaming trash bag Kinzo was, the more Rudolf's skeeziness makes sense, even as I genuinely believe he is a better person than Kinzo was. He grew up in a household where cheating was unproven but basically accepted as inevitable, he grew up starved of affection, etc etc. It makes sense to me that having somehow found two women who not only tolerated him but understood and loved him he wouldn't want to choose, and it makes sense to me that he'd consider them starting to date him even knowing he was a player as tacit consent to continuing that arrangement. I believe he genuinely loved/loves both Asumu and Kyrie, but I think he was too much of a coward to actually cut one back to being 'just friends', because he's scared and self-absorbed and messed up on the inside. But it feels to me like he treasured the illusion of a happy family with Asumu AND a happy relationship on the side with Kyrie to really consider how him double-dipping hurt them. He valued the way each of them made him feel good more than he valued what was best for them. That's a very selfish kind of love, even if it's genuine. EDIT: Especially since he's SEEN how even suspected cheating emotionally destroyed his mother. WTF, Rudolf? Do you think unspoken unsecret cheating is more emotionally healthy? PetraCore fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 04:22
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bman in 2288 posted:Is there no one directly related to Kinzo who no one wants to put a shovel through the face? I can't believe you'd shovelwhack Ange! 
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Aug 19, 2017 04:23
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PetraCore posted:I also wanna say that the more we learn about what a flaming trash bag Kinzo was, the more Rudolf's skeeziness makes sense, even as I genuinely believe he is a better person than Kinzo was. He grew up in a household where cheating was unproven but basically accepted as inevitable, he grew up starved of affection, etc etc. It makes sense to me that having somehow found two women who not only tolerated him but understood and loved him he wouldn't want to choose, and it makes sense to me that he'd consider them starting to date him even knowing he was a player as tacit consent to continuing that arrangement. I believe he genuinely loved/loves both Asumu and Kyrie, but I think he was too much of a coward to actually cut one back to being 'just friends', because he's scared and self-absorbed and messed up on the inside. This post is as good as your av
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Aug 19, 2017 04:25
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Should note that Rudolf is a genuine criminal. Having been stated to take place in borderline illegal and outright fraudulent schemes. One of which caused his primary issue of needing lots of money for a settlement cause he was sued. Were as Kruass is just awful at business, and Hideyoshi just did not quite understand how stocks worked at first, and Rosa is in debt due to her ex boyfreinds actions. I feel the least bad for Rudolf's situation.
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Aug 19, 2017 04:29
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Rodyle posted:This post is as good as your av :  Oh also, Lion has golden hair when Shannon has dirty blonde (like, REALLY dirty, but still blonde overtones) because of the wig thing and the playacting, but also I think symbolically because Yasu feels like Lion would be perfect and kind and admirable and sassy and wonderful, but feels like they themself is dirty, tainted, and darkened. Kanon's got black hair because Kanon is where Yasu acted out their open bitterness and hostility, although in an ultimately much more harmless manner than the massacre, which Kanon always tries to 'prevent' when it threatens the people he loves. This is all conjecture but I think the symbolism is fairly clear! What do other people think?
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Aug 19, 2017 04:34
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PetraCore posted:I can't believe you'd shovelwhack Ange! gently caress it, I'd shovelwhack everyone in this story. Everyone.
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Aug 19, 2017 04:34
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bman in 2288 posted:Is there no one directly related to Kinzo who no one wants to put a shovel through the face? Lion?
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Aug 19, 2017 04:51
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What did Jessica do to you
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Aug 19, 2017 04:52
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Tired Moritz posted:What did Jessica do to you Nothing. Doesn't mean I wouldn't shovelwhack her to prove a point. The point being I'd shovelwhack everyone in this story. PetraCore posted:I can't believe you'd shovelwhack Ange! Well, she's already out to get whacked. My methods are just slightly less fatal, and more shovel-y. Dr Pepper posted:Lion? Lion'd get shovelwhack twice.
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Aug 19, 2017 04:56
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Shovel whacks aren't something to get so worked up about, I was shovel whacked last week and I feel great.
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Aug 19, 2017 04:59
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Fabulousvillain posted:Shovel whacks aren't something to get so worked up about, I was shovel whacked last week and I feel great. Thank you for understanding.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:10
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Fabulousvillain posted:Shovel whacks aren't something to get so worked up about, I was shovel whacked last week and I feel great. Can you recommend a shovelwhacker? Are they licensed and bonded?
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Aug 19, 2017 05:19
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Can you recommend a shovelwhacker? Are they licensed and bonded? I've heard Lizzie Borden is pretty good, but I don't know if her whack permit is up to date.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:20
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PetraCore posted:I've heard Lizzie Borden is pretty good, but I don't know if her whack permit is up to date. She doesn't even use a shovel, she's a fake.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:23
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bman in 2288 posted:She doesn't even use a shovel, she's a fake. Anyone who has the arm strength for 41 whacks is an honorary shovelwhacker in my book.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:24
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bman in 2288 posted:She doesn't even use a shovel, she's a fake. The shovelwhacker union needs some sort of accrediting body.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:25
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:The shovelwhacker union needs some sort of accrediting body. What about this guy?
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Aug 19, 2017 05:27
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havenwaters posted:What about this guy? He's got personal protective equipment down, which is more than I can say for the Ushiromiya family. If they all complied with health and safety regulations, and also refrained from infidelity and incest, this entire tragedy might have been averted. vvv I always felt like I was the only person who liked that movie. POOL IS CLOSED fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 05:28
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:He's got personal protective equipment down, which is more than I can say for the Ushiromiya family. If they all complied with health and safety regulations, and also refrained from infidelity and incest, this entire tragedy might have been averted. Well he is a super hero who uses shovels as his weapon. Kinda expect him to have the right gear. edit: nah I loved Mystery Men. MagusDraco fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 05:29
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havenwaters posted:What about this guy? Seems legit.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:33
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Until you learn to master your rage...
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Aug 19, 2017 07:02
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PetraCore posted:I also wanna say that the more we learn about what a flaming trash bag Kinzo was, the more Rudolf's skeeziness makes sense, even as I genuinely believe he is a better person than Kinzo was. He grew up in a household where cheating was unproven but basically accepted as inevitable, he grew up starved of affection, etc etc. It makes sense to me that having somehow found two women who not only tolerated him but understood and loved him he wouldn't want to choose, and it makes sense to me that he'd consider them starting to date him even knowing he was a player as tacit consent to continuing that arrangement. I believe he genuinely loved/loves both Asumu and Kyrie, but I think he was too much of a coward to actually cut one back to being 'just friends', because he's scared and self-absorbed and messed up on the inside. I agree 100% with everything in this post. But, I still don't see how he makes the leap from wanting to carry on both relationships to pulling a delivery room switcharoo. How does that help him in any way? If anything, Kyrie giving birth to his son gives him an even better excuse to maintain his relationship with her. And he's already married to Asumu stillbirth or no. I just don't see what Rudolf has to gain from it. Furthermore, I'm not sure 22 year old Rudolf has the connections or influence to pull something like this off. Meanwhile Kinzo's best friend is a doctor with dubious morals.
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Aug 19, 2017 07:33
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Not to mention most miscarriages happen well before the third trimester, and I think Kyrie said miscarriage not stillbirth (someone will have to check) and being roughly a Yakuza Princess even if she did reach the final months she'd be more likely in a hospital - where babies and pregnant women are watched like hawks. It is strongly possible Battler is Kyrie's biochild, but the circumstances is murky likely require someone pulling some serious strings.
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Aug 19, 2017 15:49
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