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Theta Zero posted:Well, they borked Roadhog's hook in PTR on top of nerfing D.Va, so... Well......That's not 100% true. Hook 2.0 terrible, but 2.1 is actually a little better; it's just going to take some getting used to. Also, with the new hook/D.va nerfs, Roadhog can de-mech a full D.va with a single hook combo.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:53
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Irony Be My Shield posted:See again this is an attitude I don't get. Nothing about Pharah forces you to float around slowly out in the open. You can pop out from cover and use one of her two powerful escape abilities or just drop back down if you start taking flak. I see people bring that up all the time and it doesn't make a lot of sense. you don't have fly in a straight line for hitscan to work on you. it's not hard to hit the floating target with your no spread 2 shots per second hitscan gun before she runs away even if you don't kill her, it doesn't particularly matter since she can't do anything while you're there looking at her. mccree does 70/140 damage. you can kill her in 2-3 hits (and leave her very scared of other people finishing her off), so she can't just do whatever while you're there. discord brings that up to 91/182, which is insane. pharah peeks, gets shot, has to run away for a while. she can't get close to do what she wants to if you're there, and spamming rockets from a billion miles away in the safety of your cover is utterly worthless. you're not helping your team if you spend most of the match hiding from the mccree. discord alone changes the way you can play a lot because you're a much easier target than anything else. that's why mercy used to glue herself to pharah; the damage boost is nice but what she really wants is the sustain. every game mode is based around timers, so the longer one of your players spends not helping is less time you have to win the map. all you need to do as mccree is exist to change the way pharah can play any situation and that's big. every second you stall for is important. that means that making one of the players on the other team play more cautiously is huge. stalling a push because you headshot the pharah is great. killing the other team is great (and mccree's good at killing pharah), but you don't always have to do that to stop the other team
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Jan 12, 2017 21:05
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Sounds like Pharah's underpowered, to me.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:16
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I'd say shes in a decent place. She's a strong pick, but with strong counters who just isn't super meta right now.
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Jan 12, 2017 21:18
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yea that's true. we'll see what happens when the changes go through tho
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Jan 12, 2017 21:20
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patch notes for today: that oasis change 
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Jan 12, 2017 22:12
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yeah the passing car sfx was pretty obtrusive; A good change 
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Jan 12, 2017 22:16
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great news friends! i placed at 2700!~
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Jan 12, 2017 22:18
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Kamikaze Raider posted:Well......That's not 100% true. Hook 2.0 terrible, but 2.1 is actually a little better; it's just going to take some getting used to. Also, with the new hook/D.va nerfs, Roadhog can de-mech a full D.va with a single hook combo.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:26
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Bleck posted:Sounds like Pharah's underpowered, to me. I think it really depends on if you're on console or not. She's pretty strong on console, right now 6 of the top 10 players play her regularly. Kerrrrrrr posted:patch notes for today: I'm legit upset about that change, it was a cool feature and let me hold it alone forever as lucio since so many people are unaware of it.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:26
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Capping from the second platform sounded like an interesting mechanic if more players were aware of it.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:30
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:I think it really depends on if you're on console or not. She's pretty strong on console, right now 6 of the top 10 players play her regularly.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:30
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Ersatz posted:Yeah - I thought that holding above the point was a cool and intended strategic wrinkle. Just a cool and unintended strategic wrinkle. Welcome to my world. 
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Jan 12, 2017 22:35
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the fun police roll through town once again.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:49
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Kamikaze Raider posted:Well......That's not 100% true. Hook 2.0 terrible, but 2.1 is actually a little better; it's just going to take some getting used to. Also, with the new hook/D.va nerfs, Roadhog can de-mech a full D.va with a single hook combo. I honestly believe the 1.7.0 Roadhog changes are a net positive for him, but we'll see. Roadhog absolutely cannot de-mech a full D.va with a Hook + full M1 crit + melee sequence, unless you're counting an M2 shot before the hook.
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Jan 12, 2017 23:06
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If you're not m2 hooking then you should reevaluate playing hog at all
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Jan 12, 2017 23:18
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I'll admit, with new hook changes, I'm looking forward to hook 2.1. Yeah, I won't be getting as many bullshit hooks, but I can kill Ana's consistently without getting punished by sleep/nade and not having to do as much bullshit strafe maneuvering to ensure that I get close enough
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Jan 12, 2017 23:23
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Kamikaze Raider posted:Well......That's not 100% true. Hook 2.0 terrible, but 2.1 is actually a little better; it's just going to take some getting used to. Also, with the new hook/D.va nerfs, Roadhog can de-mech a full D.va with a single hook combo. I know. But I said that before the patch with 2.1 is dropped.
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Jan 12, 2017 23:47
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Thor-Stryker posted:You do the same thing you would do against any turret heavy composition, go Junkrat or Pharah and plaster everything with explosives. Can anyone recommend a decent resource out there with map breakdowns with potentially overlooked shortcuts/breakdowns etc like this for maps and other gameplay elements that may be overlooked? I've been watching YouTube/Twitch and learning plenty but I am curious if there is a repository that has lots of good reading material. Edit: The answer is Gamepedia. Sturmtiger IV fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 00:01
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removing the high ground cap on that oasis level is dumb, and I don't even believe it was a bug how the hell would they have missed that
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Jan 13, 2017 01:04
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Kai Tave posted:If Pharah was really a dominant character and neither Soldier or McCree were any good then what would happen is you would see an uptick in Widowmaker usage. More Zenyatta too, it wasn't just McCree getting his single-shot falloff reduced that put a crimp in her style, it was that plus orb of discord. I don't really think she's the lynchpin of anything tbh. Pharah's just really awkward balance-wise because characters are either easily able to destroy her or barely able to even hit her at all, with not much middle ground.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:17
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bliz doesn't know how to make projectile damage characters and hitscan damage characters both strong at the same time, except for I guess that point in time where Tracer+Genji were really common together because of old zen+old sym but that was a wild time in general
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Jan 13, 2017 01:42
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IronicDongz posted:bliz doesn't know how to make projectile damage characters and hitscan damage characters both strong at the same time, except for I guess that point in time where Tracer+Genji were really common together because of old zen+old sym but that was a wild time in general Doing an actual proper hitbox reform -- for hitscan and projectile heroes both -- while simultaneously increasing most if not all of the projectile speeds in the game would go a long way. In a few cases buffing splash damage might also help but that's a risky business.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:51
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Doing an actual proper hitbox reform -- for hitscan and projectile heroes both -- while simultaneously increasing most if not all of the projectile speeds in the game would go a long way. Why would you do this when you could make arbitrary hitboxes for projectiles while simultaneously buffing only hitscan classes?
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Jan 13, 2017 02:02
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IronicDongz posted:bliz doesn't know how to make projectile damage characters and hitscan damage characters both strong at the same time, except for I guess that point in time where Tracer+Genji were really common together because of old zen+old sym but that was a wild time in general the problem isn't projectiles; the problem is pharah spends most of her time hovering in midair. anywhere that she can do decent damage to the other team is also gonna be in view of the hitscan players, which is why she struggles and keep in mind that when soldier was the only real hitscan choice is also the same point where pharah was at her strongest. they were both everywhere but soldier alone couldn't stop her because his burst damage is poor
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Jan 13, 2017 02:10
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Focusing Pharah isn't a one man job you leave to Soldier. Ana and Zen are also great counters and should be working with teammates to discord and cap her.
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Jan 13, 2017 02:29
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Born of a conversation with a friend: how does it change the game if Rein's shield has a limited duration and a cooldown? (Bonus: what if it has a duration and cooldown but infinite health?) My response: it basically nerfs Rein into the ground and kills most current strategies, but it also makes him a more interesting character with a situational right-click - depending, of course, on how long the duration is. If the shield has infinite health, the duration has to be really short (or the cooldown very long) in order to not make it unbalanced. SneezeOfTheDecade fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 03:44
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It becomes d.va's defense matrix before it was changed and was bad probably.
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Jan 13, 2017 03:46
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What was her defense matrix pre-nerf? Unlimited charge but a long-ish cooldown?
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Jan 13, 2017 03:52
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Odobenidae posted:What was her defense matrix pre-nerf? Unlimited charge but a long-ish cooldown? Nah, it's the same as it is now except she didn't have to wait between turning it off and turning it back on again.
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Jan 13, 2017 03:56
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Nerf rein by making junkrat do double damage to barrier shield things
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Jan 13, 2017 03:57
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Nah, it's the same as it is now except she didn't have to wait between turning it off and turning it back on again. To clarify, original Defense Matrix was a single-click ability that lasted four seconds and had a 10 second cooldown or thereabouts, the difference was that it wasn't on a toggle...you used the whole four seconds up without stopping and then had to wait the full 10 seconds to use it again. Shooting would prematurely cancel the matrix but you'd still have a 10 second cooldown.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:01
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Reinhardt is a toughie to balance by just outright nerfing his shield directly. If they added a trade-off for the shield of some kind, it would help make Reinhardt a less "mandatory" hero in games. As in, a trade-off that isn't just you not having the shield.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:13
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Psst Rein shouldn't exist of you don't want your game to be a lovely cover based shooter. But but you can flank Rein and... sort of maybe if there isn't a healer do damage to him. I know I'm in for a lovely unfun game when I see Rein and Dva. Oh and gently caress Zarya and her always up shield.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:17
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Theta Zero posted:Reinhardt is a toughie to balance by just outright nerfing his shield directly. If they added a trade-off for the shield of some kind, it would help make Reinhardt a less "mandatory" hero in games. As in, a trade-off that isn't just you not having the shield. I think if there was a better counter to him maybe that would help? Like the only thing that really messes him up is another Reinhardt.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:19
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I think if there was a better counter to him maybe that would help? Like the only thing that really messes him up is another Reinhardt. That's what I was thinking, but there's a whole bunch of balance shenanigans once you throw that into the mix. Not saying that's a bad thing. It would be hilarious just watching team comps get turned on its head because you make Junkrat do quad damage to Reinhardt shields. Or let Sombra hack through them. Actually that last one doesn't sound like a bad idea, now that I think of it.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:24
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The second one was accidentally on ptr for a week. I think junkrat needs a nudge up. I swear by him, but I know he has real limits. He needs just a bit more to shine and not be edged out o the sixth slot.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:27
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:The second one was accidentally on ptr for a week. I think junkrat needs a nudge up. I swear by him, but I know he has real limits. He needs just a bit more to shine and not be edged out o the sixth slot. i wish junkrat's ult was half as good as dva's is. this is a bit of a whiny post but man i get cranky when i think about how bad his ult is. like, both dva's and junkrat's ults do *basically* the same thing. send out a thing that explodes. dva's ult advantages: --does 1000 damage --has ginormous radius --can't be killed --can pretty much place it where you want it with a bit of practice --doesn't kill the dva who cast it --if she survives the 3 seconds she's out of mech she gets a full 600 hp back, no matter what happens with the exploding mech --she can use the ult even when her mech dies, and gets a new free mech out of it --dva can still move and attack with her pistol while out of mech dva's ult disadvantages: --don't have perfect control over where it goes --very obvious call out and visual triangle indicator of where it is --baby dva only has 150hp and loses meka abilities --can be charged/hooked to move it out of the way junkrat's ult advantages: --fine-tuned control over where it goes --it goes up waaaaaaaaaaaalls junkrat's ult disadvantages --only 600 damage, aka not enough to actually de-mech a full hp dva (armor leaves her with 5hp, aka unless she's already being shot ana will just heal her right back up) --tiny loving radius with ridiculous falloff (only does full damage if you're basically under their feet) --tire only has 100 hp and dies to a light breeze --kills junkrat --junkrat is completely immobile and vulnerable for up to 10 seconds while the tire is out --loud call out and engine noise and glowing red tire visual --if the tire dies, literally nothing happens like with all of the buffs that dva has been getting since launch there's no reason that junkrat's ult should still be as bad as it is. i think they could buff any ONE of the things i listed as disadvantages of the tire and make it good. let the tire do 1000 damage. OR double the explosion/falloff radius. OR let it have 125 or 150 health. OR let it not kill the junkrat who cast it. give it something. gently caress. Kerrzhe fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 08:31
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If the map design was better then yeah, you could flank rein and bully him out/prevent him from advancing. As it is you get hard chokes where it's literally impossible to flank for most characters, and the characters who can flank are bad in the current meta. (To hammer home the point: back in the dive comp meta, when classes that reasonably could get behind the shield were popular, rein wasn't a must-pick. He was still the default choice for a tank, but there were plenty of no-rein comps that could push him well and take advantage of his lack of mobility)
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Jan 13, 2017 08:49
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Kerrrrrrr posted:i wish junkrat's ult was half as good as dva's is. this is a bit of a whiny post but man i get cranky when i think about how bad his ult is. You didn't whine enough about your hook so blizzard doesn't care
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Jan 13, 2017 08:55
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