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May 16, 2022 17:13
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Jacob Geller has a very very good video on this topic called "who's afraid of modern art" - on how the Nazis and also more modern fascists specifically label art as "degenerate" and seek to destroy it as part of their control over and creation of a baseline "culture" e: specifically it covers pieces like that of Rothko, etc. alexandriao has a new favorite as of 18:21 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 18:12
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Sometimes art just sucks and there's no boogeyman secret fascist pulling strings behind the scene to make people think it sucks Dumb and/or talentless people make art all the time. Hell that's probably the majority of art throughout history. Survivorship bias is the reason anyone thinks old anything is better than new anything
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May 16, 2022 18:24
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Manager Hoyden posted:Sometimes art just sucks and there's no boogeyman secret fascist pulling strings behind the scene to make people think it sucks lol what It's an in-depth historical and sociopolitical analysis of why Martin Rothko's paintings specifically have been destroyed or defaced by out and out fascists at least 5 times in a row for just one single work, and why his work and work like his matters in the broader art space. It covers the depth of his work, along with other interesting avant garde stuff, but also political actions in the American US senate to try to get works like Rothko's banned, and why the Nazis branded works very much like his as "degenerate" and why they felt it threatened their position if it were considered otherwise. Like nobody said anything about bogeymen secret fascists or anything like that. You are extrapolating quite a lot here. alexandriao has a new favorite as of 18:30 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 18:28
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Rothko sucks rear end
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May 16, 2022 18:29
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Gaius Marius posted:Rothko sucks rear end I felt the same but how much work went into his art (it's not just a red or a white canvas, there are thousands of layers of paint done to evoke a specific feeling and effect that cannot be replicated (they tried)), and the actual depth of meaning present both in the work and in the social context actually reversed my opinion It turns out learning things is cool and fun and good
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May 16, 2022 18:32
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alexandriao posted:Jacob Geller has a very very good video on this topic called "who's afraid of modern art" - on how the Nazis and also more modern fascists specifically label art as "degenerate" and seek to destroy it as part of their control over and creation of a baseline "culture" The US State Dept / CIA also funded modern art and artists to push back on social realism. Fascism is a land of contrasts, etc
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May 16, 2022 18:33
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800peepee51doodoo posted:The US State Dept / CIA also funded modern art and artists to push back on social realism. Fascism is a land of contrasts, etc Interesting! Do you have stuff I can follow up on this? 
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May 16, 2022 18:36
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alexandriao posted:Interesting! Do you have stuff I can follow up on this? https://daily.jstor.org/was-modern-art-really-a-cia-psy-op/ At work so haven't read through this article thoroughly but skimming it, it seems like it covers the basics. It wasn't like what actual fascists were doing wrt to trying to destroy "degenerate" art but more of trying to push a cultural hegemony, ie American art is more inventive and creative because of our freedom not like those terrible socialists with their paintings of workers and factories, that sort of thing.
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May 16, 2022 18:45
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I GISed Mark Rothko and the pictures look nice; what's the problem?
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May 16, 2022 18:48
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I GISed Mark Rothko and the pictures look nice; what's the problem? Anyone can paint a big square!
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May 16, 2022 19:10
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Badactura posted:Anyone can paint a big square! OK I'm looking forward to seeing them
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May 16, 2022 19:19
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academic art sucks
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May 16, 2022 19:20
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I GISed Mark Rothko and the pictures look nice; what's the problem? The other thing--and tbh this is true of most paintings and works but Rothko is particularly affected by this imo--is that the context in how and where you're seeing the work is a huge part of it. Like seeing one of his works at the Rothko Chapel is going to be a vastly different experience than seeing a picture of it on a Google image search.
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May 16, 2022 19:25
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christmas boots posted:The other thing--and tbh this is true of most paintings and works but Rothko is particularly affected by this imo--is that the context in how and where you're seeing the work is a huge part of it. Like seeing one of his works at the Rothko Chapel is going to be a vastly different experience than seeing a picture of it on a Google image search. They won't look nice at this "chapel"?
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May 16, 2022 19:27
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I also googled "Rothko" and paintings like those is why I can't take so many art galleries seriously. They paint something really bad and then write some prose about why it's actually not bad, but good and incredibly complex, you see but it's still bad
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May 16, 2022 19:27
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3D Megadoodoo posted:They won't look nice at this "chapel"? It's an actual non-denominational chapel but it also doubles as a gallery. I mean they still look nice, but there's more of a "whoa" feeling to it imo
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May 16, 2022 19:32
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3D Megadoodoo posted:OK I'm looking forward to seeing them While I definitely totally could I'm not going to because it's stupid and bad. Instead I'm going to continue to work on the pinnacle of artistic endeavor, a photorealistic painting of an attractive woman's face
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May 16, 2022 19:40
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A lot of modern art is about artist intention and context. Jackson Pollack gets poo poo on a lot for just throwing paint at the canvas but he was a classically trained artist and started out doing rennaisance style realistic portraiture and still life. He chose to do "action painting" to create a sense of dynamism and movement without attachment to recognizeable figures. Its ok to not like modern art if you don't want to but it's often helpful and adds a lot to the experience of art if you can understand what the artist is trying to communicate and why. That said, a lot of hacks bullshit their way through an artists statement to cover for having bad ideas and limited skills so ymmv
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May 16, 2022 19:49
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Badactura posted:Anyone can paint a big square! Collapsing Farts posted:I also googled "Rothko" and paintings like those is why I can't take so many art galleries seriously. They paint something really bad and then write some prose about why it's actually not bad, but good and incredibly complex, you see So here's the thing that the video covered and the fact that changed my opinion on his work. They actually tried to do that. One of the contractors to fix the work did actually just paint the whole thing with red and call it a day. And the thing is, almost every single person who looked at that painting before, and after, noticed. They said it seemed soulless now. IIRC some visitors even complained about it. Because Rothko, to make that painting, actually did hundreds and hundreds of layers, all of different shades, and some different hues, and lacquers, and glosses, all to give the painting a sense of depth when you see it IRL. And after it was "repaired" that sense of depth was lacking.
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May 16, 2022 19:54
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800peepee51doodoo posted:Jackson Pollack gets poo poo on a lot for just throwing paint at the canvas but he was a classically trained artist and started out doing rennaisance style realistic portraiture and still life. He chose to do "action painting" to create a sense of dynamism and movement without attachment to recognizeable figures. Jackson Pollock would also be the first person to smugly tell you to gently caress off if you thought he was just randomly flinging paint, there's a story Stan Brakhage used to tell about how this very topic came up at a party, and Pollock grabs a nearby paintbrush and deadass whips a dot of paint directly at the front door's knob "That's the way out", was the glib retort I still don't think his work is very good, but the man was an undeniably skilled artist
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May 16, 2022 22:44
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Nobody should ever ask an employee of a restaurant where the bathrooms are. A restaurant is not a wilderness expedition, you should be able to easily spot them within 10 seconds of leaving your table. If you can't find them, you are a complete idiot and you deserve to poo poo yourself in the middle of Applebee's.
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May 17, 2022 00:00
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Cat rear end Trophy posted:Nobody should ever ask an employee of a restaurant where the bathrooms are. A restaurant is not a wilderness expedition, you should be able to easily spot them within 10 seconds of leaving your table. If you can't find them, you are a complete idiot and you deserve to poo poo yourself in the middle of Applebee's. I would significantly prefer to be asked where the bathroom is than have to clean up someone’s poop
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May 17, 2022 00:28
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Doesn't matter how skilled the artist is, or how hard they worked if they chose to make garbage. Nobody needs an explanation of why the Sistine chapel, Faust, or MBDTF is art. Someone engages with it and knows. If Caravaggio had a stroke and started painting loving squares it wouldn't matter how many layers or how much work went into it, it ain't matching the beheading of Holofernes.
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May 17, 2022 00:34
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Gaius Marius posted:Doesn't matter how skilled the artist is, or how hard they worked if they chose to make garbage. Nobody needs an explanation of why the Sistine chapel, Faust, or MBDTF is art. Someone engages with it and knows. If Caravaggio had a stroke and started painting loving squares it wouldn't matter how many layers or how much work went into it, it ain't matching the beheading of Holofernes. You got poo poo takes on everything, dontcha know
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May 17, 2022 00:39
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Gaius Marius posted:Doesn't matter how skilled the artist is, or how hard they worked if they chose to make garbage. Nobody needs an explanation of why the Sistine chapel, Faust, or MBDTF is art. Someone engages with it and knows. If Caravaggio had a stroke and started painting loving squares it wouldn't matter how many layers or how much work went into it, it ain't matching the beheading of Holofernes. You have very mundane tastes
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May 17, 2022 00:45
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I dunno. To put it in terms I’m more familiar with, there’s wonderful, beautiful art in manga, like from Aki Irie’s Ran and the Gray World or Kamome Shirahama’s Witch Hat Atelier, but there’s also incredibly rough, sketchy, maybe ugly art to look at like ONE’s Mob Psycho 100 or Taiyo Mastumoto’s Ping Pong that end up being incredibly compelling when you read them, despite or maybe because of the quality of the art. I don’t really like a lot of modern art, and I don’t like a lot of modern poetry, but it has value to other people and that’s enough for me
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May 17, 2022 01:03
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I mean to me it seems like Gaius isn't actually assessing or basing their interest in art off an appreciation of the medium itself as they claim, but moreso on how cultured they think it makes them look to appreciate it, and how popular it is within xyz review and study mediums. Which is valid, I guess, but it's a whole different ballpark to "has an appreciation of art". The fact that as a side-effect they have stated that they would favour and advocate for the removal and purging of other kinds of art as "destructive" or "unworthy", and that the lists they have given as "timeless" are all incredibly western, european-focused, is the clincher.
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May 17, 2022 01:18
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alexandriao posted:I mean to me it seems like Gaius isn't actually assessing or basing their interest in art off an appreciation of the medium itself as they claim, but moreso on how cultured they think it makes them look to appreciate it, and how popular it is within xyz review and study mediums.
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May 17, 2022 01:41
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Gaius, maybe take a step back and think why people are responding the way they are. Some of it is undeserved aggression, but a lot of it is because you’re being kind of unreasonable
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May 17, 2022 01:46
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Gaius Marius posted:I literally called a Japanese Visual Novel the greatest novel of all time. You need to check yourself with your poo poo. I didn't say that you were only focused on European, Western art. Also what thetoughestbean said.
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May 17, 2022 03:13
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Everyone has the right to be unreasonable in the unpopular opinion thread.
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May 17, 2022 03:37
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Gaius Marius posted:I literally called a Japanese Visual Novel the greatest novel of all time. You need to check yourself with your poo poo. Ok I’ll take the bait. What was the visual novel?(and why was it The House in Fata Morgana)
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May 17, 2022 03:41
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Badactura posted:Anyone can paint a big square! so paint one, let's see it. I'm gonna go to the Rothko Chapel this weekend just to spite you all. Place owns.
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May 17, 2022 04:12
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christmas boots posted:Ok I’ll take the bait. What was the visual novel?(and why was it The House in Fata Morgana) People kept recommending it after I finished Umineko, but the art style man, it's not great. Might still do it after Higurashi
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May 17, 2022 04:13
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I will say that it starts off a bit slow. I almost bounced off it at one point early on but then it really got going and just got better from there.
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May 17, 2022 04:35
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Gaius Marius posted:Doesn't matter how skilled the artist is, or how hard they worked if they chose to make garbage. Nobody needs an explanation of why the Sistine chapel, Faust, or MBDTF is art. Someone engages with it and knows. If Caravaggio had a stroke and started painting loving squares it wouldn't matter how many layers or how much work went into it, it ain't matching the beheading of Holofernes. agreed. malevich also painted stupid bullshit
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May 17, 2022 08:32
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Cat rear end Trophy posted:Nobody should ever ask an employee of a restaurant where the bathrooms are. A restaurant is not a wilderness expedition, you should be able to easily spot them within 10 seconds of leaving your table. If you can't find them, you are a complete idiot I guess you don't go to good restaurants. (The bog is through the kitchen and at the end of a corridor that is clearly so long that it goes behind at least two adjoining businesses.) Cat rear end Trophy posted:Applebee's. Ah, there it is.
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May 17, 2022 10:01
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Yeah 90% of the time the restrooms are where you’d expect them to be but there’s always a restaurant once in a while where you have to walk past the kitchen, make three left turns and gain passage from a troll by answering his riddles three before you find them.
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May 17, 2022 10:03
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christmas boots posted:Yeah 90% of the time the restrooms are where you’d expect them to be but there’s always a restaurant once in a while where you have to walk past the kitchen, make three left turns and gain passage from a troll by answering his riddles three before you find them. Now that I think about it, it's mostly a question of "is the restaurant in a new building" vs. "is the restaurant in an old building".
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May 17, 2022 10:09
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