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Gasifier comeback?
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Sep 14, 2020 21:05
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bull3964 posted:Not having cruise control is such a nickle and dime move nowadays with throttle by wire. There's no additional hardware required and the ECU is programmed for it. The only cost addition is the buck's worth of plastic for the switch. Pretty much. Hell, even on manual cars it would be trivial to add a downshift lamp on the LCD in the smart instrument cluster and tell the driver to downshift if they want to maintain speed up a hill. There's already an upshift lamp and a brake switch input on 99% of manual ECUs.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:19
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at least the most recent two manual transmission cars i've owned have provided a downshift indicator in the event you are lugging the car so that part already exists
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Sep 14, 2020 21:42
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Well drat! I live in the 90s still and had no idea such a thing existed
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Sep 14, 2020 22:12
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My ancient manual toyota tacoma in 2000 had cruise and wind down windows. It would just cut out of cruise if it couldn't maintain speed.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:14
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I've never seen a car with up and downshift lights. How common is it for people to drive around bouncing off the limiter or with the motor bogged down and struggling? I'm pretty sure when I got my licence back in the 90s being able to select the correct gear was part of the test and if you couldn't do that you didn't get a licence.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:47
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bull3964 posted:Not having cruise control is such a nickle and dime move nowadays with throttle by wire. There's no additional hardware required and the ECU is programmed for it. The only cost addition is the buck's worth of plastic for the switch. I honestly find it amazing that it makes sense to do this simply from an economies of scale perspective. You'd really think that the ability to use a single wheel for the entire model versus producing and stocking two, then tracking which goes where, etc. would outweigh whatever the savings are from removing four plastic buttons. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:at least the most recent two manual transmission cars i've owned have provided a downshift indicator in the event you are lugging the car so that part already exists
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Sep 14, 2020 22:55
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Oh, that isn't smoke, it's steam. Steam from the steamed cams we're having.
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Sep 14, 2020 23:11
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ili posted:I've never seen a car with up and downshift lights. How common is it for people to drive around bouncing off the limiter or with the motor bogged down and struggling? I'm pretty sure when I got my licence back in the 90s being able to select the correct gear was part of the test and if you couldn't do that you didn't get a licence.
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Sep 14, 2020 23:38
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InitialDave posted:They put them in most stuff now as an economical advisory thing, it's to get you to try and be sensible on fuel by short-shifting, not a shift light proper. Ah right. I've been driving diesel fourbys for the last 5 years or so, they come with built in audio-tactile shift warnings even on the base model so no need for anything on the dash.
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Sep 14, 2020 23:50
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InitialDave posted:They put them in most stuff now as an economical advisory thing, it's to get you to try and be sensible on fuel by short-shifting, not a shift light proper. Yeah, my 90 Escort had an upshift light. Basically worked off of engine vacuum.
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Sep 15, 2020 00:31
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C-Bangin' it 
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Do y’all just not drive stick anymore or? Both my manual transmission vehicles have cruise control?
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Sep 15, 2020 00:50
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Electronic or the old vacuum pump on the throttle pedal?
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Sep 15, 2020 01:26
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Colostomy Bag posted:Yeah, my 90 Escort had an upshift light. Basically worked off of engine vacuum. You beat me to it, yeah I had one of those. Wish I kept it, interior was minty in 2006. I saw it last year in someone's backyard and it belongs in the terrible stuff thread now. I recall driving an 80s Toyota or Nissan that had one as well.
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Sep 15, 2020 01:34
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This sounds juvenile even now but i never learned how to drive a manual properly (i can stall anything though), mostly because i can't figure out how to manipulate the throttle and clutch synchronously. Then i found out there was an old Saab that did something like automatically adjust the throttle when pushing the clutch. I wanted to try something like that, but then found out that it was hated, so my shame kinda redoubled.
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Sep 15, 2020 03:15
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Hell, my 98 XJ 4.0 5spd had cruise and it wasn't exactly a luxury automobile.
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Sep 15, 2020 04:45
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Are we doing that thing where we all just post whatever car we own that's related to the current subject? I have a 2007 Mazda3, poverty spec: manual 5 speed, manual windows, manual locks, 2.0l engine. And it has cruise control, via buttons on the steering wheel.
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Sep 15, 2020 05:00
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EKDS5k posted:Are we doing that thing where we all just post whatever car we own that's related to the current subject?
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Sep 15, 2020 05:14
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Just you wait, the manufacturers are going to start selling features as a service, hope you paid your cruise control subscription this month!
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Sep 15, 2020 05:36
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Tesla already does that, turning off features in cars that are on-sold by their owners.
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Sep 15, 2020 05:42
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Beach Bum posted:Just you wait, the manufacturers are going to start selling features as a service, hope you paid your cruise control subscription this month! BMW is already pondering selling subscriptions for heated seats.
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Sep 15, 2020 05:42
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My '02 Ranger doesn't have cruise control. My Leaf does, and even non-ACC cruise on EVs is fuckin great, because the accel/deccel switches have a lot of authority and are really snappy.
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Sep 15, 2020 06:00
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Memento posted:Tesla already does that, turning off features in cars that are on-sold by their owners. Cojawfee posted:BMW is already pondering selling subscriptions for heated seats. Precisely why I will be driving my 2000 CRV and 2011 Fit into the ground. Maybe pick up another NA Miata for a racecar/weekend toy. More likely, automakers are going to get a rude awakening regarding the ingenuity and pettiness of software hackers and pirates. Beach Bum fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 07:41
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Wasabi the J posted:This sounds juvenile even now but i never learned how to drive a manual properly (i can stall anything though), mostly because i can't figure out how to manipulate the throttle and clutch synchronously. As an european its still baffling how a lot of people in the US can't really drive a manual. Stories of burned out clutches while learning to drive stick and stuff like that. From 17 year old to old grannys, everyone over here nows how to use a clutch! Mind you i'm not trying to start a discussion about which way is the better way or what continent has the better drivers or any of those strange hills people like to die on. Its just super weird to me how a skill that is super ubiquitous here is pretty rare over there. I'm also pretty sure automatics are on the rise over here to but they still carry the stigma of worse fuel economy and "feeling bad".
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Sep 15, 2020 07:42
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I think the majority of us just like the feeling of a firm knob in our hands 
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Sep 15, 2020 07:45
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Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the only reason certain models of newer Porsches even have a manual option is from the American buyers who demand one. I thought all the Europeans grew up on / learned on manuals and would rather have the faster PDK shifting.
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Sep 15, 2020 07:53
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Shai-Hulud posted:As an european its still baffling how a lot of people in the US can't really drive a manual. Stories of burned out clutches while learning to drive stick and stuff like that. From 17 year old to old grannys, everyone over here nows how to use a clutch! No, Western Europeans are demonstrably better drivers than those in the US, since y'all have a sane driver's education and licensing scheme.
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Sep 15, 2020 07:56
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Elviscat posted:No, Western Europeans are demonstrably better drivers than those in the US, since y'all have a sane driver's education and licensing scheme.
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Sep 15, 2020 08:08
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I got my driver's license in Canada, which certainly isn't as rigorous as say Germany, but it does have a three-level graduated scheme that takes at least 20 months and three practical tests from start to finish. In contrast, some of my friends here in the states said that they had no driver's education whatsoever, and their test was four right turns around a city block then pulling forwards into a parking space and tada here's your license, see you when you turn 65. I am pretty sure anywhere in western europe is better than that.
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Sep 15, 2020 08:17
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evil_bunnY posted:This is highly, highly country dependent. Pretty sure the worst of Europe regionally still beats the best of America regionally.
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Sep 15, 2020 08:19
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You can get the best drivers education and the most rigorous testing and in the end dickheads still throw it all out of the window and drive like dickheads because they "are a good driver" and "know the limits of their car".
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Sep 15, 2020 08:21
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I saw this post recently in the Military History thread that seems relevant.Cessna posted:I didn't have a Driver's License before I joined the USMC and they taught me to drive [armored fighting vehicles].
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Sep 15, 2020 08:25
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Memento posted:I saw this post recently in the Military History thread that seems relevant. There's a bit in The Forgotten Soldier where the author recalls being "taught" to drive in what he calls a "wretched little Renault R4" far after WW2. As the instructor nags him, "Where did you learn to drive?!", he fights the temptation to say, "At the Eastern Front, in a truck full of injured men being dragged through the mud by a tank. Dick."
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Sep 15, 2020 08:50
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Just to put this into perspective. This is whats necessary to get a Class B licence (Cars up to 3,5t, up to 8 people and a trailer that weighs a maximum of 750kg as long as this does not put the car/trailer combo over 3,5t) in germany. Class B is the "normal" licence most people get: - 18 years old (you can get a licence at 17 but you need to be accompanied while driving by a person thats at least 30 years old, had a licence for at least 5 years and is sober until you turn 18) - pass a first aid course (at least nine 45 minute lessons) - have your eyes checked - theoretical education is at least 14 lessons of 90 minutes. At the end you get a 30 question multiple choice quiz and if you fail you have to redo the quiz which costs about 25€ every time (failure is based on point system, usually it takes 2-3 wrong answers to fail) - actual driving is is done "as needed" but at least 5 lessons outside of cities, 4 on the Autobahn and 3 in the dark. Usually you take a couple of lessons more to really get the hang of it though. Oh yeah this is of course all done in a manual car. If you learn in an automatic you are only allowed to drive automatics. - The final driving test takes about 45 minutes and is absolute hell. If you make more than one mistake you are pretty much done for the day. That includes stuff like not checking your mirrors or surroundings correctly every time you are supposed to. Most people i know failed this at least once. Taking the test costs about 100€ each time. All of this will cost between 1000-2000€ depending on how many additional driving lessons you need and if you fail any of the tests.
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Sep 15, 2020 08:53
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I think my grandfather's test was also of the "circle around the town square and reverse into a parking lot" kind, and he only gave that license up a year or three ago. Norway in the second half of the 1940s was still a bit ... wild. Oh well, he drove from his teens to turning 90 with no noteworthy incidents, so I guess it worked out? The modern day requirements are more like the previous post about Germany. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 09:00
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TheBacon posted:Pretty sure the worst of Europe regionally still beats the best of America regionally. Still nowhere as bad as US average, which is everyone riding with no concern for lanes rules, no attention to what's ahead, and a hair trigger. My brother lives on the southern french coast (best know for cool heads and temperate driving of course) and would go insane when he visited the US. People just did not focus on the road. This is the typical process for scandigoons learning how to drive: https://www.trafikverket.se/en/startpage/driving-licence/obtaining-a-swedish-driving-licence/the-road-to-a-swedish-driving-licence/ evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 10:22
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MomJeans420 posted:Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the only reason certain models of newer Porsches even have a manual option is from the American buyers who demand one. I thought all the Europeans grew up on / learned on manuals and would rather have the faster PDK shifting. This is correct. The european premium car customer has successfully been re educated to value automatic transmissions or even worse DSGs over manuals. This is triple convenient for the manufacturer 1. The transmission is an OEM part so you just buy it off the shelf from ZF or Getrag or LUK if you really hate your customers and you slap on a Faaaaaat margin on top of what that waste of steel costs you. 2. The automatic or worse DSG Transmission is now the weakest link in the Powertrain. This is because just like a manual transmission (where it is also wrong) they are designed with LiFeTiMe oil fillings (which don't exist) but additionally to the oil degradation in the squeeze zones of the geared wheels and the little bit of metallic wear, you now have a poo poo ton of friction clutches in that oil which will enrich it with all kinds of poo poo over time and you have extremely extremely tiny hydraulic valves with an absolute mad backplane that just loves to accumulate dirt from the oil and stops working. This is good because you, the manufacturer, know when this is going to happen. It will happen about half a decade after warranty period. If your customer drives too much though during warranty, you sneak in an ATF flush (you can not even just change the oil anymore lol. You need the equivalent of a blood transfusion machine to change the ATF). 3. You can hide the absolute worst engine tunes and behavior with an automatic or DSG Transmission. The manual shift is the last action in a modern vehicle that really requires good engine design and application (mapping) because if you have an unresponsive pedal or worse a hang throttle your customer, if he has an ounce of feel for dynamics, will return the car from the initial test drive a few minutes after he drove off the yard. Think new honda civic type R, or the horrible citroen DS1 and equivalent engines. Really if you try to run a manual transmission on a Powertrain that wasn't designed with the dynamics requirements of a manual gear change in mind it makes you want to throw away the car. As an added bonus to a Powertrain that was designed with a manual in mind though you will generally get a fantastic engine response regardless if you accelerate or change gears. Left aside. I have worked extensively in testing and validation and I was an engineering test driver myself. You will be laughed out of there if you want to talk engine dynamics or Powertrain Setup without being abled to drive a manual. The modern automatic or DSG Transmission is a convenience piece of engineering that's been designed to ease incapable drivers into a segment of vehicles they shouldn't get their hand on and we market it as a luxury item that's a must have on a premium car. And people buy that marketing schtick because it will do 0-60 on 0.1 seconds faster and consumes 0.1 liters less in a completely arbitrary test cycle that has no real world application and that we can fully optimize an automatic for. Don't buy an automatic or DSG. If you have to drive through that much stop and go traffic you should just get a BEV or plugin hybrid honestly. You are not doing yourself , the environment or your car any favors. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 10:52
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Shai-Hulud posted:As an european its still baffling how a lot of people in the US can't really drive a manual. Stories of burned out clutches while learning to drive stick and stuff like that. From 17 year old to old grannys, everyone over here nows how to use a clutch! Real drivers drive stick and real pilots fly tail draggers. 
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Sep 15, 2020 11:27
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Shai-Hulud posted:Reasonable driver training Meanwhile, I managed to get a driver's license in the States twice without ever having my driving observed by an examiner. First time, the octagenarian examiner fell asleep before I made it to the first stop sign. Second time was in my early 20s. I had moved states and lost my wallet in the move so I had to do the whole course again with the 14 year olds. When my turn came up for the state trooper to ride with me, when we got to my truck, he paused and said... 'you drove here, didn't you?' I didn't see the point in denying it. To my surprise, he didn't give me any grief, just turned around, went back inside, and issued me a license.
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Sep 15, 2020 11:36
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Wasabi the J posted:This sounds juvenile even now but i never learned how to drive a manual properly (i can stall anything though), mostly because i can't figure out how to manipulate the throttle and clutch synchronously. That's pretty strange coming from a place where pretty much everyone had to learn to drive a manual. Did you ever have anyone to teach you how to drive? Do you have two legs?
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Sep 15, 2020 11:46
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