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Pellisworth posted:You might ask HEY GAIL about how sex was perceived during the early modern. As far as I remember, the guys she studies considered there to be only one sex: male. Women were just imperfect males. But sex also wasn't an immutable concept, she linked me a wiki article about some person who started life as a woman, had kids, then became a man. Ain't no thing. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleno_de_C%C3%A9spedes and speaking of accents, it's great that his name in his own language probably sounded something like Thethpedeth. in the news, natural law's back https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/feb/03/neil-gorsuch-mentor-john-finnis-compared-gay-sex-to-bestiality apparently gay sex has no conception of the common good Bel_Canto posted:In other news, the Church of England has apologized for its seminarians' use of liturgical Polari, so we will no longer be seeing Evensong services that refer to God as "the Duchess."
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Feb 3, 2017 21:44
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Paladinus posted:If humans were as insignificant to God as sand, Jesus wouldn't probably have died for them. But would Jesus die for a grain of sand that contained a tiny universe full of life, and human beings? I would argue yes. There is one true God, The creator of our universe. Jesus isn't him, but God created Jesus, then Jesus created us, is what I believe. So Jesus is our dad, and God is our grandfather, so to speak. And you can continue down the chain. If I terraformed a planet and installed life and shepparded the life I created, I would be their 'Jesus'. So to speak (but I wouldn't use that name because I'm not a copycat) Because Jesus lives inside our universe, not outside of it. Is that Christianity?
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Feb 3, 2017 22:19
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no
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Feb 3, 2017 22:27
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:But would Jesus die for a grain of sand that contained a tiny universe full of life, and human beings? I would argue yes. I don't think its compatible with the Nicene Creed, which is a pretty common Christianity litmus test. I'll let the thread experts figure out which 1800 year old heresy you just resurrected here. Its fine by me if you want to identify as Christian, though, I'll take weird ideas on the nature of the Trinity over prosperity gospel any day.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:34
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P-Mack posted:I don't think its compatible with the Nicene Creed, which is a pretty common Christianity litmus test. I'll let the thread experts figure out which 1800 year old heresy you just resurrected here.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:41
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there's a bit of mormonism in there maybe? vvv: we have a winner! StashAugustine fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 22:41
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Opiates.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:41
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zonohedron posted:2 Samuel 6:23 says that Michal had no children until the day of her death, but it's very clear that the writer didn't mean "but she had children afterwards", because we know that dead people don't have kids. Matthew 1:24-25 is only "very clear" that they had sex if it's important to you that they did, I think; all it says is that Joseph definitely did not cause Jesus to be conceived and did not do anything with Mary that could have caused Jesus to be conceived. "He never missed a day of work until the day he died." "He never missed a day of work until he got shingles." Totally different idioms. I think asceticism is fine and good; I meditate for up to an hour a day so I'm fine with stuff not everybody does. I don't even necessarily have a problem with the claim to perpetual virginity if it were understood to be an option, rather than a decided doctrine which is simply "true" when there are compelling and plausible reasons to believe otherwise. Since sex in marriage is not a sin, I don't think it should be understood as a mark against Mary's holiness if she's seen as likely having had sex with Joseph. Also, while a woman controlling her sexuality and not having sex, especially in a time where pregnancy was highly dangerous can certainly be a progressive vision, it's far more likely to be understood in misogynistic and anti-sex terms. There's no way people are sending that nun death threats because they think acknowledging the possibility of sex between Mary and Joseph is anti-feminist. Similarly, in looking through Wikipedia I came across stuff like this: "Mary's virginity even after her conception of Jesus is regularly represented in the Christian art of both the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox (as well as in early Western religious art) by including in Nativity scenes the figure of Salome, whom the Gospel of James presents as finding that Mary had preserved her virginity even in giving birth to her son.[32][33]" Obviously that's an apocryphal gospel, but it's pretty gross and bad, and the conflation between hymen-integrity, virginity, and purity should rightly be questioned.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:54
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I LIKE COOKIE's particular heresy upsets me.
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Feb 3, 2017 23:36
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:Is that Christianity? Refer to: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/creeds God the Father and God the Son (along with God the Spirit) are One God. The whole Trinity created all things, and none of God was created, including Jesus. We are adopted as heirs, and so are more or less Jesus' siblings. WerrWaaa fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 23:54
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WerrWaaa posted:Refer to: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/creeds Wow that's so cool bexause I go to an Episcopal church!!! So I'm right. We are adopted as heirs. If Jesus was adopted too (and wasn't directly created by God; ie: natural selection, evolution, etc) and was once like us, then that means humanities ultimate destiny is to become God. Once we get advanced enough to 'play God' then we get adopted and become one with God. It makes perfect sense. So maybe I'm wrong in that Jesus and God are separate, if Jesus rose to Sheppard life and God was like "yo, but I'm God" would he be angry? I doubt it. He would take him in and be like "drat Jesus you cool" If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that God is one cool motherfucker. And if we were created in God's image, it probably means that our universe is inside a computer and our whole universe was created to study mankind (or just intelligent life in general). Praise Jesus! E: I just reread your post again, and it indicates that if no part of God was created, then at one time God was mortal like us. And Jesus Aswell. I LIKE COOKIE fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 00:09
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At least the Episcopalians don't use the horrifying Latinized term "consubstantial." Kinda like if history had gone a different way and we'd all refer to the relationship between the Son and the Father as being "homoousiotic" at Mass.
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Feb 4, 2017 00:17
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The Phlegmatist posted:At least the Episcopalians don't use the horrifying Latinized term "consubstantial." Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt Nothing horrifying about that, in fact it's my favourite part of the creed both to recite and to sing 
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Feb 4, 2017 00:24
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The Phlegmatist posted:At least the Episcopalians don't use the horrifying Latinized term "consubstantial." yeah sure the usccb would use "homo" at mass they'd fight it tooth and nail and we both know it
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Feb 4, 2017 00:28
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Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:"He never missed a day of work until the day he died." Also both English, which has no bearing on the question at hand.
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Feb 4, 2017 00:44
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Senju Kannon posted:yeah sure the usccb would use "homo" at mass I'm still waiting for some weird rad trad to start a campaign to remove Anselm's Cur Deus Homo from the Vatican Library. I mean God wasn't a fuckin' homo and also I have a sixth grade education. Bel_Canto posted:Also both English, which has no bearing on the question at hand. I'll back you up on this. "Until" as a conjunction in English usage designates that the main clause will reverse upon the completion of the subordinate clause. "I'll work until I get fired." "I'll drink all this whiskey until I puke." "I'll stay with my girlfriend until I see some red flags." The conjunction ἕως in the original Greek text provides no information as to what happens with the main clause after the subordinate clause is finished. Sometimes it references a reversal of the main clause, sometimes it doesn't. So you can't really use that passage as a prooftext against the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
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Feb 4, 2017 00:57
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:E: I just reread your post again, and it indicates that if no part of God was created, then at one time God was mortal like us. And Jesus Aswell. That's not what it indicates: if something is mortal then by definition it must be created. Where are you getting the notion that God's being uncreated implies that He must have been mortal?
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Feb 4, 2017 01:17
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:Wow that's so cool bexause I go to an Episcopal church!!! I'll let someone else explain deification as I don't know enough, but appreciate it a lot. My basic rear end summary would be that our sanctification in this life and redemption in the next makes us somehow divine beings. Like Christ. Christlikeness being a central goal of all Xtianity. BUT, God was not mortal before becoming God. God existed before creation (and therefore before Time), and is the originator of all things we perceive of as the material universe. Jesus was not adopted. Jesus is God and therefore eternal. Jesus has always been the Son. Rather, in the incarnation of the Son into humanity, aka Jesus, God became mortal, and was raised again to eternal life in the resurrection.
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Feb 4, 2017 01:35
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Personally, I've always wondered if "Mary was a perpetual virgin, and this was liberating to Roman women" was itself an attempt by the Catholic church to control the sexuality of women. I've had a couple of pastors say that God made sex feel good for a reason and it's absolutely an important part of marriage that both partners should be satisfied with, and that if one's happy with the sex in the marriage and the other is not then it's a genuine problem in the marriage.
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Feb 4, 2017 01:37
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it's good and cool to not want to have sex. that is okay. my biggest problem with the protestant reformation is it went the opposite direction, forcing nuns to get married and basically telling women that if they didn't want to be married then something was wrong with them
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Feb 4, 2017 01:47
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if the choice is "arranged marriage with a man you hate or a nunnery" guess what a lot of women are gonna choose
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Feb 4, 2017 01:48
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Cythereal posted:Personally, I've always wondered if "Mary was a perpetual virgin, and this was liberating to Roman women" was itself an attempt by the Catholic church to control the sexuality of women. Put yourselves in the footsteps of a Jewish woman in first century Palestine and get back to me. "Jesus disallows divorce." Well we think that's pretty gross today, but guess what went on in the first century over there. The man could divorce his wife at any time unilaterally and she'd basically just have to go lie down and die on the streets; not a whole lot of opportunity for widows. So actually Jesus was being progressive there. And so the early church had an opportunity for widows where they were essentially catechists and had major functions within the church. Also they saved unwanted babies from exposure quite often, which led to Celsus' weird remarks about how Christians secreted away babies to eat them. Pliny the Younger tortures two Christian women who describe themselves as ministers of the church. So I'd be really careful whenever you start to describe the essence of Christianity as being misogynist. It wasn't until Constantine when we forgot that poo poo ever happened and women were just pushed into the background. Early Christianity, taken in its societal context, was feminist as all hell.
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Feb 4, 2017 02:04
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The Phlegmatist posted:Put yourselves in the footsteps of a Jewish woman in first century Palestine and get back to me. I'm not disagreeing, but I am noting that circumstances and societies change and what once was liberating may become controlling as time goes on. Besides, I'd hardly call "was Mary a perpetual virgin or not" the essence of Christianity. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 02:11
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you know how in a lot of places spousal rape is legal, and a lot of legislators in america want it legal here too think about that and then think about mary's perpetual virginity and you too can see how it can be liberatory when applied properly
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Feb 4, 2017 02:17
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Senju Kannon posted:you know how in a lot of places spousal rape is legal, and a lot of legislators in america want it legal here too Like I said, I'm not disagreeing, but neither am I agreeing that believing Mary was perpetually a virgin is the truth or that it's always been liberating. Personally, it's not something I spend any time worrying about one way or another. If it means something to you to believe Mary was always a virgin, go for it. If it means something to you to believe Mary wasn't always a virgin, enjoy. I figure God doesn't sweat the details of what we choose to believe. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 02:26
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Bel_Canto posted:That's not what it indicates: if something is mortal then by definition it must be created. Where are you getting the notion that God's being uncreated implies that He must have been mortal?
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Feb 4, 2017 03:11
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The Phlegmatist posted:I'm still waiting for some weird rad trad to start a campaign to remove Anselm's Cur Deus Homo from the Vatican Library. I mean God wasn't a fuckin' homo and also I have a sixth grade education.
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Feb 4, 2017 03:14
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WerrWaaa posted:I'll let someone else explain deification as I don't know enough, but appreciate it a lot. My basic rear end summary would be that our sanctification in this life and redemption in the next makes us somehow divine beings. Like Christ. Christlikeness being a central goal of all Xtianity. Ah, I think you're right. As soon as I clicked 'post' Jesus yelled at me so I knew I had some aspect wrong. Thank you for taking the time to enlighten me. I know it seems like I'm trolling with my goofy rear end ideas, but I've seen some pretty crazy poo poo in my dreams and have done a lot of drugs. I still think Jesus is inside this universe even after what you said. Does the Bible or any text talk about anything in this realm of thought? So now I'm envisioning Jesus as being a sort of video game character that the creator of the universe is controlling. Like there's this huge automatic game of Age of Empires meets The Sims and it's called the universe, and for whatever reason God came into the game to teach the rest of the players a lesson about love. If you can't tell by now, I simply tie religion into my personal life experiences. Whether you realize it or not, yo udo this too (you're just not as crazy as me). It may be a sin, but I like to fantasize about being God and having my own God computer game that I can go on Skype and play with my friends. Putting yourself in God's shoes is a very valuable tool in understanding God's actions (or lack thereof). I believe I've already seen heaven and am so stoked to die and go there, I was pumped to die. but Jesus told me that wanting to die for that reason is selfish, and if I want heaven I have to wake up everyday and spread love and happiness, and strive to be a Hero. Also I should be satisfied with what I have already, because honestly my life is blessed as fuckkk. And I know Jesus can read my thoughts, but after witnessing Jesus' sarcastic rear end answer to my prayers, I can't help but hope that in heaven God is a woman and she's willing to gently caress. Jesus also told me that fear is a lie, and is what Satan uses to control. So you should fear nothing, not even God. Love God, don't fear God. Sex is love, no? Hahahahahah I apologize for offending anyone (I know I did) I'm new to this whole faith thing and I am certainly not graceful. I'm working on being graceful though. Because I am a bit of an arrogant rear end in a top hat at times. It makes me smile everyday seeing God's work. In fact it literally gives me a feeling like I'm high on drugs. Going out of my way to do good things makes me feel so good inside. But then seeing myself rewarded for doing good makes me feel even higher. I always wondered why those "jesus freak" people we're so stoked on life and waaaay to happy. But I figured it out, those people are literally high as gently caress, because Jesus is in their brain tickling their happy receptors or whatever. If anyone here has ever prayed and felt like their prayer was ignored, I am willing to share how I communicate with God, he answers my prayers instantly, and every single thought in my head is a prayer. So me and God talk nearly all day long, it's beautiful. Oh and did I mention anyone can do it, you don't have to be crazy (diagnosed, nigga) to do it. Today is a beautiful day! I LIKE COOKIE fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 03:15
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HEY GAIL posted:bro, check his post history. he is probably high huh i assumed dude was just a troll that's pretty funny, then
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Feb 4, 2017 03:37
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Senju Kannon posted:huh i assumed dude was just a troll
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Feb 4, 2017 03:46
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Senju Kannon posted:huh i assumed dude was just a troll I was deep into heroin and drugs before Jesus proved his existence to me. I promise I'm not high on drugs anymore... 
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Feb 4, 2017 03:45
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:Ah, I think you're right. As soon as I clicked 'post' Jesus yelled at me so I knew I had some aspect wrong. You need professional help, then after that a good spiritual advisor. Source: Intimate knowledge of mental illness and mystical theology.
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Feb 4, 2017 03:59
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I'm taking my lithium. And what you said hurt my feelings and made me feel like you're looking down on me, saying I need help indicates that you think I don't have my life together. Yeah I'm Bipolar 1. But you don't know me. Pride is a deadly sin, by the way. You're not better than me.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:02
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:I'm taking my lithium. And what you said hurt my feelings and made me feel like you're looking down on me, saying I need help indicates that you think I don't have my life together. Yeah I'm Bipolar 1. But you don't know me. I'm also Bipolar I. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but your current spirituality is not built on a good foundation. We (myself included) have to learn to navigate ordinary grace, extraordinary grace (like thinking we are hearing God/Mary etc), and the symptoms of mental illness. If you are experiencing God constantly talking to you this is likely not extraordinary grace but mental illness. Perhaps I was too terse, but It wasn't pride behind my post, just someone who's been there. I do apologize. Edit: I also don't believe I'm better than literally anyone, since I too am a sinner who survives only on God's grace. We are all equal in that. Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 04:12
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I'm also Bipolar I. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but your current spirituality is not built on a good foundation. We (myself included) have to learn to navigate ordinary grace, extraordinary grace (like thinking we are hearing God/Mary etc), and the symptoms of mental illness. I forgive you. I guess I should elaborate on that then. I do not hear literal voices. What I mean is when I'm thinking hard about something and want God's input I plug in my headphones and play shuffle on my 12gb of music on my sd card. The songs sometimes skip by themselves and the name of the song, or the words in a song, can he an answer. Sometimes I don't understand the answers I get, or maybe I'm just not special enough to have God's ear 100% of the time... But God answers your prayer by pantomiming. Music and gestures is how God talks. If you don't believe me try it yourself. Let God be your DJ. It's real. If you're greedy, or proud, or selfish, I doubt God would take the time to play music for you. But if you're humble, and kind, and put others first in every aspect of your life, I think he will play songs for you, and maybe even skip some in the middle so you know he's still there.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:24
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:I forgive you. I guess I should elaborate on that then. I do not hear literal voices. What I mean is when I'm thinking hard about something and want God's input I plug in my headphones and play shuffle on my 12gb of music on my sd card. The songs sometimes skip by themselves and the name of the song, or the words in a song, can he an answer. Sometimes I don't understand the answers I get, or maybe I'm just not special enough to have God's ear 100% of the time... But God answers your prayer by pantomiming. Music and gestures is how God talks. If you don't believe me try it yourself. Let God be your DJ. It's real. I don't care if you are just trolling, you're entertaining. Spongebob is the perfect avatar for you. I'm glad to have you around. p.s. I suspect you know a whole lot more than you pretend to.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:54
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Deteriorata posted:p.s. I suspect you know a whole lot more than you pretend to. Ah. Without irony, I am again humbled and brought to peace by the mystery of faith.
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Feb 4, 2017 05:07
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that's like audible bibliomancy. i can dig it.
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Feb 4, 2017 05:44
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Thank you guys. And everything I say is the truth. I used to lie about my heroin use to try and hide it, and when I quit I promised God I would never lie again. Everything I say is 100% true. I'm not playing a character, I just ammmm a character. I bring the party, so to speak. But now I'm just stroking my own ego. I said music and gestures, if you would like smile and have a laugh about how humbling and hilarious God's answers to my prayers can be, I can show you one of the gestures I got when I asked a question. I prayed to God to let me win the Powerball. I told God exactly what I wanted to do with the money, then went and bought a ticket. I was having an internal debate about if this request was greed or not. Would God bankroll my dreams? The answer I got will make you smile, I promise. I'm busy right now but Later I'll take a picture of my powerball ticket and take a screenie of the winning ones. It was the powerball drawing for Florida on Feb 1st, if you want to google the numbers now though. I'll tell you what, God has the best sense of humour. he (she?!) cracks me up
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Feb 4, 2017 07:17
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I LIKE COOKIE posted:Thank you guys. And everything I say is the truth. I used to lie about my heroin use to try and hide it, and when I quit I promised God I would never lie again. You're welcome here, as is anyone who isn't trying to be a dick. I don't think it's healthy to pray to God for success at gambling. Gambling can easily be an addiction, and if you've struggled with other addictions it's very likely this is just your addictive personality. If you want God to grant you wishes you might be better off consulting the Dog God of Taiwan or similar. By all means keep posting and sharing your thoughts, we're all friends here and happy to engage you in conversation.
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Feb 4, 2017 08:06
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