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Personally, I'm betting that the Pandemonium raid will be about however it was that Lahabrea and Emet escaped being Sundered.
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May 9, 2021 00:01
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Eopia posted:We are definitely not implied to be Tenzen, for one extremely simple reason: Tenzen's soul was in the seal the entire time. It's not the fact that he's a historical hero that makes people think he's a previous holder of the soul, it's the fact that the auspices keep talking about how very similar you are.
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May 9, 2021 00:16
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SirSamVimes posted:It's not the fact that he's a historical hero that makes people think he's a previous holder of the soul, it's the fact that the auspices keep talking about how very similar you are. it's just the narrative though, auspices are very traditional and Tenzen was a compassionate warrior too, they're just basically saying 'oh thank goodness there's still kind hearted warriors in this realm'.
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May 9, 2021 01:04
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Fandaniel is specifically going hog because all the Unsundered are dead, meaning the remaining Sundered Ascians are essentially on their last life as they are now, no more elevating. So might as well go wild with the incredible cosmic power and no stuffy idiots with delusions of some old world to hold you back.
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May 9, 2021 01:11
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Cythereal posted:Personally, I'm betting that the Pandemonium raid will be about however it was that Lahabrea and Emet escaped being Sundered. Lahabrea diabolically breaking his diary into twelve pieces and putting sequentially tougher bosses in front of each of them like the dickhead that he is
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May 9, 2021 01:21
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SirSamVimes posted:It's not the fact that he's a historical hero that makes people think he's a previous holder of the soul, it's the fact that the auspices keep talking about how very similar you are. The Auspices are... not wise. Personally I can't take anything they say as hint of anything for that reason. Plus, dumb animals talking about similarities between souls still can't supercede that soul already being accounted for.
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May 9, 2021 02:35
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the tenzen link is that he was probably a Warrior of Light, but people confuse that implication for him being the warrior of light but a past life version.
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May 9, 2021 03:06
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I thought the game was clear enough that not every Warrior of Light is an nth reincarnation of Azem. Heck, Ramza's crew was chilling as Ultima's seal for however long without returning to the Lifestream and you get to meet them.
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May 9, 2021 03:15
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yea people forget that 'warrior of light' is a title that exists beyond your character. You're the big dick top dog WoL for sure but there were others before you who weren't you and as we saw with the stuff Eli did nothing stops others from being made independent of Azem's soul
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May 9, 2021 03:20
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sexpig by night posted:yea people forget that 'warrior of light' is a title that exists beyond your character. You're the big dick top dog WoL for sure but there were others before you who weren't you and as we saw with the stuff Eli did nothing stops others from being made independent of Azem's soul
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May 9, 2021 07:33
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Nessus posted:I suspect that EW will have a lot of stuff on just what is up with being a Warrior of Light, because that is relatively mysterious in a lot of ways. Like, the "original" one, apparently, was Elidibus, but there's been a number of them-- the Heroes' Gauntlet is full of what are clearly presented as OTHER Warriors of Light. We seem to be the only one running around on Eorzea/Hyadaelyn, but why? Did the others just get killed? Is it because mama's low on gas now? I remember Matoya's ORB is some kind of crystal from a previous Warrior of Light and is remarked to be enormously powerful compared to ours. Well the Gauntlet also suggests Hildy is a WoL
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May 9, 2021 08:20
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A Sometimes Food posted:Well the Gauntlet also suggests Hildy is a WoL
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May 9, 2021 08:35
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Waffleman_ posted:Fandaniel is specifically going hog because all the Unsundered are dead, meaning the remaining Sundered Ascians are essentially on their last life as they are now, no more elevating. So might as well go wild with the incredible cosmic power and no stuffy idiots with delusions of some old world to hold you back.
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May 9, 2021 08:53
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Itzena posted:It's going to be interesting to see in EW what the rest of the Sundered Ascians are doing right now - Fancy Dan seems pretty confident that the WoL is the only real threat left, which either implies the rest have also all signed up to his "Burn the world and piss on the ashes" scheme, or they're all otherwise occupied, or that they're not a threat to him any more. I still want the reveal to be that the Endwalker crafting questline is the ultimate duel of quality vs. quantity, as we find out one of the remaining Ascians just decided to be Wizard Jeff Bezos.
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May 9, 2021 09:42
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Itzena posted:It's going to be interesting to see in EW what the rest of the Sundered Ascians are doing right now - Fancy Dan seems pretty confident that the WoL is the only real threat left, which either implies the rest have also all signed up to his "Burn the world and piss on the ashes" scheme, or they're all otherwise occupied, or that they're not a threat to him any more.
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May 9, 2021 12:24
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I remain profoundly disappointed by the fact that we literally have an Ascian ally but it will never play a part in the main story because it's optional content
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May 9, 2021 12:39
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erenoyo posted:I remain profoundly disappointed by the fact that we literally have an Ascian ally but it will never play a part in the main story because it's optional content
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May 9, 2021 12:41
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They should devote development resources to making Bahamut Normal and then make all raids and trials mandatory. And yes, I do include Hildibrand.
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May 9, 2021 12:57
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Nessus posted:Like, the "original" one, apparently, was Elidibus I don't think this was the implication at all. Elidibus just sees himself as mankind's greatest hero so he manifested as a primal of mankind's first hero. Yotsuyu became Tsukuyomi, but Yotsuyu is not the goddess of the moon. Ysayle is very much not the original Shiva.
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May 9, 2021 14:15
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Nessus posted:I suspect that EW will have a lot of stuff on just what is up with being a Warrior of Light, because that is relatively mysterious in a lot of ways. Like, the "original" one, apparently, was Elidibus, but there's been a number of them-- the Heroes' Gauntlet is full of what are clearly presented as OTHER Warriors of Light. We seem to be the only one running around on Eorzea/Hyadaelyn, but why? Did the others just get killed? Is it because mama's low on gas now? I remember Matoya's ORB is some kind of crystal from a previous Warrior of Light and is remarked to be enormously powerful compared to ours. i don't believe Elidibus was meant to be the first Warrior of Light, just that he was conjuring up a half-remembered image of either Azem or the first WoL he met post-sundering as for the whole "what even is a Warrior of Light" question, 5.2 and 5.3 went into that a fair bit already. there's the modern connotation where anyone sufficiently heroic and powerful is given the title by the public, but that's following a precedent of Warriors of Light being heroes causing heroes to eventually be called Warriors of Light. right now it's suggested it started with Hydaelin turning on the hear-feel-think echo phone bot, cause some star showers here and there to awaken echo havers, then have them perform great feats of justice in the name of Light. repeat as necessary whenever Hydaelin needs some new champions. Alisaie also theorises that the Ascians wouldn't be particularly fond of Light being associaded with good and in turn Dark with bad, and one of the player dialogue options is that Hydaelin called them a Warrior of Light directly, so there's a chance she pre-empted the Ascians on that bit of narrative-building.
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May 9, 2021 14:23
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An interesting minor detail about the Warrior of Light Elidibus becomes is that the Triple Triad card classes him as a primal; in fact, it's one of only two primal cards introduced in Shadowbringers and its patches, the other one being Lunar Bahamut. Not even Hades or any of his creations through Amaurot are classed as primals. Its description, knowing that, probably gives us an answer for who that 'was' or 'is': quote:A being summoned into existence through the peoples' hopes and prayers for salvation. One can only speculate as to what era, what far-flung world, inspired its otherwise antiquated visage. Perhaps it is the culmination of ideals to which all heroes aspire. I read that as that there might not have been an 'original' Warrior of Light, it's just a concept that eventually congealed and started being applied both in past and present (possibly because Hydaelyn kept shouting into random people's brains). In the First that primal took the form of the FF1 Warrior of Light, but judging by the picture book cutscene in 5.3* it's probably just because of a specific image that proliferated rather than any historical fact. Like how we all know that Jesus isn't a white dude with long brown hair and a beard, but that's still what you probably picture when you imagine Jesus. I think that figure would look markedly different in the Source. In fact, I'd say it might look something like that mysterious figure of light at the end of the 5.5 trailer, because the Source's modern image of 'a Warrior of Light' are the figures that vanished from memory in the Calamity and can only be remembered as eclipsed by shining light. *As an aside, Mowen's love of teaching you history with picture books is delightful, he's my favorite character on the First because of it, and I'm gonna miss those interludes in Endwalker.
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May 9, 2021 14:42
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Elidibus himself was a primal so that could be the reason for the classification
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May 9, 2021 18:00
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erenoyo posted:I remain profoundly disappointed by the fact that we literally have an Ascian ally but it will never play a part in the main story because it's optional content I wouldn't bet on that. Eden is pretty clearly framed as "main story content," especially since Thancred and Urianger are canonically involved.
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May 9, 2021 23:43
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Also don't call Gaia an Ascian. She is a good person, her own person, and better than the label for a group of genocidal monsters.
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May 10, 2021 00:36
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Lohgrif was an Ascian. Gaia just happens to be her reincarnation.
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May 10, 2021 00:38
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Gaia called herself an Ascian.
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May 10, 2021 00:51
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I'm pretty sure after the final raid she has her full memory and chooses Ryne despite that.
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May 10, 2021 00:54
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She can't be an Ascian if I actually read her dialogue.
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May 10, 2021 00:54
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:She can't be an Ascian if I actually read her dialogue.
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May 10, 2021 01:16
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how can Gaia be an Ascian, I respect her character
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May 10, 2021 01:16
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Cleretic posted:Also don't call Gaia an Ascian. She is a good person, her own person, and better than the label for a group of genocidal monsters. Please stop posting.
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May 10, 2021 01:17
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She has like all the Ascian superpowers for the same reasons the Ascians have them, it isn't like those powers were intrinsically evil based on what we know now.
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May 10, 2021 01:23
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Nessus posted:She has like all the Ascian superpowers for the same reasons the Ascians have them, it isn't like those powers were intrinsically evil based on what we know now. It's a name for a distinct organization, not a population. Sadly we don't have a word for that population, but calling Gaia an Ascian would be like referring to David Lee Roth primarily as 'member of Van Halen'. ...although for that metaphor to work perfectly Van Halen would have to be responsible for numerous genocides, which to my knowledge isn't true.
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May 10, 2021 01:33
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im gonna call cleretic an ascian from now on, because i wish i could seal (probate) their posting in a crystal for 10000 years (6 hours)
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May 10, 2021 01:42
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I can't roll my eyes hard enough
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May 10, 2021 01:45
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I was content with calling her "Gaia", as it was a clear display of individuality and an assertion of her own personhood; separate from that of Loghrif, the Ascian that she was. And I guess committed a ton of genocide as? So thank you for making it super weird and uncomfortable to like Gaia by associating her with mass genocide, I guess?
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May 10, 2021 02:01
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why take the position that "Ascian" has to refer to the specific organization rather than the type of being that comprises that organization, especially since the former no longer really exists but the latter does? what says that they thought of themselves as Ascians as a unit, rather than e.g. the Convocation and citizens of Amaurot?
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May 10, 2021 02:09
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Sherry Bahm posted:I was content with calling her "Gaia", as it was a clear display of individuality and an assertion of her own personhood; separate from that of Loghrif, the Ascian that she was. And I guess committed a ton of genocide as? So thank you for making it super weird and uncomfortable to like Gaia by associating her with mass genocide, I guess? Gaia's in a very weird situation that does sort of absolve her of Loghrif's actions while still requiring their acknowledgement; she's a reincarnation of Loghrif, but one that didn't have memory of Loghrif's actions until the point where she basically rejected them anyway. Gaia is free of the sins of the Ascians, but Loghrif is absolutely not, and honestly there's a remarkable degree of maturity in Gaia that she never personally struggles with this and seems to intuitively know what is and is not her cross to bear on this. Gaia isn't an Ascian. And we don't have a term for what she is (even 'ex-Ascian' doesn't really qualify since that implies she was one in her current form), but maybe we don't need to. She's just Gaia, who's rad and I want her hammer and time powers. ...largely unrelated, but a greathammer would be a good weapon for a second Maiming job...
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May 10, 2021 02:40
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Cleretic posted:Gaia's in a very weird situation that does sort of absolve her of Loghrif's actions while still requiring their acknowledgement; she's a reincarnation of Loghrif, but one that didn't have memory of Loghrif's actions until the point where she basically rejected them anyway. You can just do what everyone else does and say you give the goth lesbian a pass because you like her. Works for Emet.
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May 10, 2021 02:54
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Gaia resisting Lohgrif does make me wonder how often that happens though. Like Elidibus wakes up Igeyorhm's latest sundered soul and he gets told to gently caress off and he just has to try again with the next one
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May 10, 2021 03:06
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