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More DE:MD stuff. I was taking down a drug ring and stumbled across a lab in the sewers,jensen has different voice lines when you confront the head scientist depending on if you’ve been running all around town solving the mystery of people dying all over the place or just stumbled upon her by accident. Also,the facial animations for everyone are so much better,jensen has some good eyebrow acting.
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Jul 10, 2021 16:54
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biosterous posted:if you get on the back of the train in the augs section, you just chill and nobody cares, and if you get on the front in the non-augs-only section citizens will be giving you the sideeye and cops will hassle you when you get off yeah! i had that happen to me! same thing if you go through the non-aug turnstile. an angry cop will stop you and make you show your papers. Sally has a new favorite as of 17:56 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 17:27
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I like how sometimes when you show your papers the cops go from being all pigged up ‘gimme a reason, aug’ to unnerved and worried as they hand them back and realize you could have basically killed them anytime you wanted.
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Jul 10, 2021 17:52
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Kitfox88 posted:I like how sometimes when you show your papers the cops go from being all pigged up ‘gimme a reason, aug’ to unnerved and worried as they hand them back and realize you could have basically killed them anytime you wanted. "S-sorry for the delay sir, please be on your way"
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Jul 10, 2021 19:46
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I appreciate that AI: The Somnium Files has decent trans representation in Mama. She's generally portrayed as the usual husky, fairly horny seedy bar hostess type character, but outside of her deep voice and one set of text boxes clarifying that her body is still masculine and that she'd big into LGBT events, you'd not know just looking at her. Basically her joke isn't doing the usual persona 3 "Oh she's a man in a dress", her joke is the more traditionally cis- "Horny fat girl that keeps making advances on the main character" - it's not really making fun of her genitals, it's making a different joke. She is in no way modelled to look masculine either, she visually passes as just an obese woman so it's not being weird about it. It also helps that basically everyone in the game keeps making weird horny jokes, she's not the only one. BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 22:32 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 22:30
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Keep playing, Bio. There's actually a nice little bit of open trans positivity for her a ways down one of the branches.
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Jul 11, 2021 02:57
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The one part where Mizuki just start reciting a general trans positivity message that sounds like some company's Pride Month press release might have been better written but it's still welcome 
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Jul 11, 2021 03:34
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playing nier replicant and making Ray Chase the voice of older nier was an inspired move, especially when you do the fishing quests chase is definitely drawing from his past experience as noctis "fisher king" lucis caelum in that dialogue
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Jul 11, 2021 07:37
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In Deus Ex: HR, if you convince someone to do something via dialogue you get a 1000 exp bonus called Silver Tongue. If you fail, you get a 100 exp bonus called Life Lesson 
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Jul 11, 2021 08:50
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The verbal "boss battles" you can have in HR with the CASIE Aug in general are a highlight of the game. Not perfect by any means, but a nice way to shake up more standard RPG dialog.
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Jul 11, 2021 11:38
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The entire dialogue system in HR is easily the best thing about it and I continue to be frustrated that it has never shown up anywhere else. All I can think is that there's some bullshit patent on it.
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Jul 11, 2021 11:51
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John Murdoch posted:The entire dialogue system in HR is easily the best thing about it and I continue to be frustrated that it has never shown up anywhere else. All I can think is that there's some bullshit patent on it. More likely that devs assume nobody cares about that stuff and all gamers want is Innovative Action Combat and RPG customization with Crafting.
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Jul 11, 2021 12:28
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:More likely that devs assume nobody cares about that stuff and all gamers want is Innovative Action Combat and RPG customization with Crafting. Don't forget procedurally generated content.
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Jul 11, 2021 12:30
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It's probably pretty difficult to do, too. You need good motion and face capture, and that costs money and manpower.
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Jul 11, 2021 12:59
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Also actual creativity and effort writing dialogue and story. Reminded of the bit where you basically publicly debate the anti-aug politician, with Adam steadily advancing from being in the audience to on the stage. There's also an achievement for winning an argument with your boss, and bringing up that even if he had a valid reason for running a thorough background check on you, he still hosed up by leaving a major security hole from doing it.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:36
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Philippe posted:It's probably pretty difficult to do, too. You need good motion and face capture, and that costs money and manpower. Not quite; Deus Ex: HR's conversation "battles" ares solidly built around the CASIE augment, which gives you an onscreen HUD display of their current temperament and disposition.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:47
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I don't know, I think the boss battles are still beatable without the CASIE aug, because of high-quality facial capture and (as GL said) good writing. The conversations feel like actual conversations, with ebb and flow and both parties making good points, and if you roleplay and read the prompts instead of looking at the line you can figure it out fairly easily.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:59
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As an aside, anyone who liked the conversation battles in Human Revolution should try out Neo Cab. It's a game that's pretty much entirely about those, so it doesn't classify as a 'little thing'. It also doesn't have face capture, voice acting, and barely anything like the CASIE aug's HUD, so clearly you don't need to swing a big budget at that stuff to make it work out. EDIT: Also, a neat thing that came out when HR was new: People with autism (particularly high-functioning autism) actually tended to do better in those sections without the CASIE aug, which was a really neat thing to learn and unpack. A lot of autistic people learn to consciously recognize emotional and social cues, since they don't have the subconscious recognition as strongly, so they were actually reading the cues harder than your average player and doing very well at that. But give them the CASIE aug and they started treating it more as a logic/reading comprehension puzzle, which led to them doing worse because they started neglecting the social side. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 14:13 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 14:06
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More Deus ex stuff : I broke into my bosses apartment completely by accident,i think i have a problem, help.
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Jul 11, 2021 14:11
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:More Deus ex stuff : I broke into my bosses apartment completely by accident,i think i have a problem, help. Nah you're doing it right
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Jul 11, 2021 14:21
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Yeah, I never got the CASIE aug in HR, and I have something like a 2/3 win rate even without it. Those sections are just generally well-written. Something you might not have realized is that they also are slightly randomized. If you try to savescum them (which I did to try to talk my way into the police station early on), you probably won't get the same conversation, because your opponent has multiple different lines they can use to respond to you.
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Jul 11, 2021 14:31
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The CASIE mod helping you win the convo battles, rather than being a skill/aug check was a very nice touch. I found myself reloading the DX:HR conversations to see all the paths because they were all well written, but then some of them felt interchangable. I'm bouncing off DX:MD because the anti aug racism thing felt strained and bad. Also for how little actual czech there is NeoPrague, it's all translated wrong. Like google translate single word first hit level of effort.
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Jul 11, 2021 15:11
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Yeah the “aug lives matter” is laid on so thick it’s pretty offensive,literally every “normal” civilian and police officer are straight up throwing slurs and genocidal threats. And the jewish concentration camp parallels and straight up “golem” city come onnnn.
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Jul 11, 2021 15:20
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It stumbles over one of the major usual points in these cases as well which is the fact that it’s generally based around that whole massive worldwide psychosis episode that augmented folk went through where huge amounts of people were harmed and traumatized and killed. As opposed to most actual racism which is illogical as hell without an actual sort of thing like that to point to.  Edit: I never even made the Golem City connection 
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Jul 11, 2021 16:04
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Not quite; Deus Ex: HR's conversation "battles" ares solidly built around the CASIE augment, which gives you an onscreen HUD display of their current temperament and disposition. I never used the CASIE aug in Human Revolution and beat all the convo battles by paying attention to the characters and story. The one in Mankind Divided was much better. edit: I used it once in HR and realized I did not like it at all, so I reloaded and didn't waste Praxis points on that aug. I like that Adam is susceptible to it when someone else hits him with a CASIE in HR. Fifty Farts has a new favorite as of 16:27 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 16:18
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beats for junkies posted:
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Jul 11, 2021 16:30
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It's even worse because I'm pretty sure they only made it take place in Prague because of Karel Čapek because get it robots, and the racism idea came later. Doing parallels to racism is loving stupid in the first place if the story takes place on regular rear end earth in the near future. It's a such a corporate copout to be able to sell their game without any controversies while being all woke to sell.
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Jul 11, 2021 16:31
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beats for junkies posted:I never used the CASIE aug in Human Revolution and beat all the convo battles by paying attention to the characters and story. The one in Mankind Divided was much better. The best CASIE-related thing in HR is when you try using the pheromones on the super-meched up guy in the Detroit sewers who is immune to it and basically calls it "your neat little toy".
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Jul 11, 2021 16:49
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Vic posted:It's even worse because I'm pretty sure they only made it take place in Prague because of Karel Čapek because get it robots, and the racism idea came later. pretty sure this is the case. there's even a side mission where you an augmented lady in a basement who is rehearsing a one-person performance of RUR.
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Jul 11, 2021 17:11
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Malik will also call out you trying to use the casie on her
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Jul 11, 2021 17:11
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i really like Mankind Divided despite all these things but all the stuff being posted about it are all real gripes I've had with the game. i am just working my way through it now
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Jul 11, 2021 17:12
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Vic posted:It's even worse because I'm pretty sure they only made it take place in Prague because of Karel Čapek because get it robots, and the racism idea came later. See, I feel like it's more because they genuinely wanted to tell a story about prejudice and discrimination, but the forms of it that would actually manifest in a world like Deus Ex don't work in various ways. And it's REALLY hard to pitch basically a whole new form of prejudice out of nowhere, so you need to base it on something. You could use the actual events of the game's story to do a 'war veterans' kinda thing, but that's something that largely only manifests in subtle 'the world only pretends to care' ways that don't provide much of a strong setting for a game like this. You could go for an ableism route and have a bit of a point, but it's always going to ring hollow when your protagonist is completely able-bodied. Sexism's definitely out. Classism? Getting closer to what can work (and what they did), but not quite clear enough. The racism metaphor is definitely wrong, and they leaned too hard on it especially in marketing, but at least it's a kind of wrong you can build into the game's themes. Personally I would've gone with a homophobia analog, but without directly saying it. Tapping into different eras of homophobia you've got 'it's a choice so you chose this life', denial of important medicines, outright denial of existence, police crackdowns, performative shows of caring while still being hateful, some classic victim-blaming, maybe a pride movement... you could definitely build up something there, although even it still has problems.
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Jul 11, 2021 17:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's also an achievement for winning an argument with your boss, and bringing up that even if he had a valid reason for running a thorough background check on you, he still hosed up by leaving a major security hole from doing it. I'm constantly struggling to not think of the game as "Deus Ex: Human Resources" whenever I see the acronym, and this bit is really making it difficult
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Jul 11, 2021 17:40
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Philippe posted:The best CASIE-related thing in HR is when you try using the pheromones on the super-meched up guy in the Detroit sewers who is immune to it and basically calls it "your neat little toy". The best CASIE thing is when you use it on the cult leader who's hacked it and it says he's basically a divine being who you should trust unconditionally
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Jul 11, 2021 21:49
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Cleretic posted:See, I feel like it's more because they genuinely wanted to tell a story about prejudice and discrimination Mary DeMarle is the writer for both new Deus Ex games. She wrote some of the best unironically good dialogue in the DX series. But read this: quote:Q:Expanding on that, one of the things people love about the stories you've told is that you can look at a certain faction and view them as terrorists or freedom fighters, depending on the lens you choose. How do you see that reflected in the world's current situation with all the conflicts happening globally? quote:Q:Mankind Divided’s world is full of analogs for racism, terrorism, questionable violence by police officers, and social inequality. Were there any concerns as a creative or from your publisher about the impact of potentially sensitive issues having an effect on the game’s success? I think she was hired to do a job and she did it. It's cyberpunk as gently caress. Cleretic posted:Personally I would've gone with a homophobia analog, but without directly saying it. Tapping into different eras of homophobia you've got 'it's a choice so you chose this life', denial of important medicines, outright denial of existence, police crackdowns, performative shows of caring while still being hateful, some classic victim-blaming, maybe a pride movement... you could definitely build up something there, although even it still has problems. You know what I wouldn't do robo discrimination at all unless you can write it in a way that's not a real life everyday tragedy, and your goal isn't to go "maybe both sides". It's trash.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:22
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Captain Hygiene posted:I'm constantly struggling to not think of the game as "Deus Ex: Human Resources" whenever I see the acronym, and this bit is really making it difficult It works on multiple levels!
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Jul 11, 2021 23:30
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I'm at the end of the Harvester sidemission for Mankind Divided where you help a local Prague cop track down a serial killer who is targetting augmented people. At the end of it, for various reasons, the cop accuses Jensen of being the killer and pulls a gun, so you have to talk him down. If you turn on your CASIE augmentation, he immediately gets annoyed and tells you to turn it off and talk to him person-to-person... and Jensen does.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:34
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Vic posted:to go "maybe both sides". I like how you clearly didn't actually read the quotes, and the easy answer of drawing obvious parallels is exactly what the writer was looking to avoid. It's allowed to be a big, messy, hosed up situation and only parts of it really apply to you and your life. "See the other side" in this case is less waffling and more "try to understand that you are also capable of being wrong about some things, so if there is a point to be made at least try to understand it" before turning to violence. But hey, it's much easier to maintain righteous fury if you're definitely never ever wrong.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:48
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Sally posted:I'm at the end of the Harvester sidemission for Mankind Divided where you help a local Prague cop track down a serial killer who is targetting augmented people. At the end of it, for various reasons, the cop accuses Jensen of being the killer and pulls a gun, so you have to talk him down. If you turn on your CASIE augmentation, he immediately gets annoyed and tells you to turn it off and talk to him person-to-person... and Jensen does. I did like how CASIE was a thing that other people were aware of, especially being aware they were being effected by it.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:56
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Casnorf posted:I like how you clearly didn't actually read the quotes, and the easy answer of drawing obvious parallels is exactly what the writer was looking to avoid. It's allowed to be a big, messy, hosed up situation and only parts of it really apply to you and your life. "See the other side" in this case is less waffling and more "try to understand that you are also capable of being wrong about some things, so if there is a point to be made at least try to understand it" before turning to violence. But hey, it's much easier to maintain righteous fury if you're definitely never ever wrong. Who are you even arguing with? Is there something about jewish pogroms you don't feel is correct or...?
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Jul 12, 2021 00:04
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