Computer chairs: the backbone of a good sit up.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Computer chairs: the backbone of a good sit up.

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TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

dew worm posted:

Was thinking about the Markus. My upper back and neck are starting to hurt and I have a real bad forward posture thing going on.

Any other ergonomic recs?

the Herman Miller Embody

# ? Feb 10, 2022 23:13

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# ? May 28, 2024 17:27

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

TenementFunster posted:

the Herman Miller Embody

$$$$ tho

# ? Feb 10, 2022 23:26

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

how many hours a year are you sitting in a particular desk chair? what is the cost of serious back, neck, and posture issues for the rest of your life? ~$100 a year for a desk chair is nothing.

a comfortable mattress, bedding, desk chairs, socks, and shoes will all pay dividends far exceeding their original price

~*live ergonomically*~

# ? Feb 10, 2022 23:31

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Lead out in cuffs posted:

$$$$ tho

Most of us are conservatively spending over 2000 hours a year in our chairs. Some investments are totally worth it.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 23:45

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

also i�ve had my embody for nearly a decade(?!) at this point. it still works as new and looks nearly new, aside from various scuffs, even as a part-time cat bed and occasional scratch post.

a 30 year lifetime is well within reason of regular office/home use

# ? Feb 11, 2022 00:07

Zarin: Nov 11, 2008; I SEE YOU

TenementFunster posted:

also i�ve had my embody for nearly a decade(?!) at this point. it still works as new and looks nearly new, aside from various scuffs, even as a part-time cat bed and occasional scratch post.

a 30 year lifetime is well within reason of regular office/home use

Hell, for some of the stuff made in the 70's/80's, based on other places I've worked, a 30-year lifetime was well within reason for office/industrial use :v:

# ? Feb 11, 2022 00:22

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

Zarin posted:

Hell, for some of the stuff made in the 70's/80's, based on other places I've worked, a 30-year lifetime was well within reason for office/industrial use

there are a bunch of 30-year-old aerons out there. mine has a ~93 date code, and while it�s the Aeron of Theseus, the major comportments are still solid and the minor stuff is easy to replace. parts are cheap, and still reasonably priced direct from HM if you can�t find it on ebay/CL. the embody has a lot more going on such as the weird suspension system, but the warranty is generous.

if you have a sit-down �career,� the embody (or a similarly-priced, equally-ergonomic chair) is a no brained

# ? Feb 11, 2022 00:30

Eric the Mauve: May 8, 2012; Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Lead out in cuffs posted:

I guess just requoting this list that should probably be in the OP (or an OP of a new thread?)

(Quoting for myself too.)

Ffycchi's effortpost is cool and good but prices are like 50% higher across the board now compared to when he wrote it, especially on the low end of the market.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 02:16

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Eric the Mauve posted:

Ffycchi's effortpost is cool and good but prices are like 50% higher across the board now compared to when he wrote it, especially on the low end of the market.

Yeah lol the high-back Elusion is like CAD$700 after tax now.

TenementFunster posted:

also i�ve had my embody for nearly a decade(?!) at this point. it still works as new and looks nearly new, aside from various scuffs, even as a part-time cat bed and occasional scratch post.

a 30 year lifetime is well within reason of regular office/home use

These are good arguments, which I don't generally disagree with.

And also pretty elitist to assume that most people have $2K in loose change to spend on a chair.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 02:35

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Yeah lol the high-back Elusion is like CAD$700 after tax now.

These are good arguments, which I don't generally disagree with.

And also pretty elitist to assume that most people have $2K in loose change to spend on a chair.

which is why i'm not framing it as "lol 2k is loose change, you poors" but one of the most important decisions you can make for your short term comfort and long term health. a great chair is just as important to somebody with an e-mail job as boots are to a logger; it's literally PPE. if your back hurts from sitting in whatever $50 Office Max piece of poo poo your rear end in a top hat boss provides, it isn't gonna get better as you turn 30, 40, 50, etc. $2k every 20+ years is goes a long way in preventing a potential lifetime of pain and many tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, which your rear end in a top hat boss also doesn't give a poo poo about. hell, Herman Miller has a 30 day return policy. Buy it locally from Design Within Reach or whoever (the only price for HM stuff is MSRP , minus the twice-yearly 10% off sale), try it for a few weeks. if you don't feel an improvement by week 2, return it and try something else. my back started feeling better the same day! life is too short to sit yourself to death so your rear end in a top hat boss can send his kids to USC.

i spent nearly two decades with an ankle problem that would keep me up at night, and a ~$40 Humanscale rocking foot rest cured it almost entirely within two weeks. i'll be an insane ergonomics advocate until I die now.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 02:49

Eric the Mauve: May 8, 2012; Making you happy for a buck since 199X

The Vimes Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness applies here. It's actually cheaper in the long run to lay out the $1500 for a chair that will last 25 years than to repeatedly spend $300 on a chair that will last maybe 3 or 4 years. But you have to be able to lay out the big bucks up front.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 02:52

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

Eric the Mauve posted:

The Vimes Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness applies here. It's actually cheaper in the long run to lay out the $1500 for a chair that will last 25 years than to repeatedly spend $300 on a chair that will last maybe 3 or 4 years. But you have to be able to lay out the big bucks up front.

exactly, but it's even more compelling in this case since that expensive chair will not only last longer, but might also save you from a ergonomic injury, which can be life altering as well as extraordinarily expensive. it's a penny prevention vs. pound of cure. it's a bad and unfair system but i'll keep shouting about you should anyway like a crazy person!

# ? Feb 11, 2022 03:02

blugu64: Jul 17, 2006; Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?

The cheapo chairs from office max are lucky to last even a year using them for work from home. I mean they�ll still look decent, but the padding is dead.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 04:57

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

On the flipside, the chair I'm replacing is a mid-level "executive chair" from a no-name Taiwanese brand that I picked up at a thrift store 14 years ago. I paid like $50 for it, but I looked it up recently, and it seems like it's about a CAD$450 chair (at least by 1-2 years ago prices). I wasn't primarily working from home, but I spent a ton of time in it, including writing about 90% of my PhD thesis. The thing has been an absolute tank. It went 12 years before needing new casters, and 13 before the PVC and the cushion started wearing to the point of being uncomfortable. It also fit me pretty well (which was fortunate because the only adjustment is seat height). So in terms of durability, it is entirely possible to get something for like one-fifth the price of an Embody that lasts about half as long.

And while I'm sure the Embody is really great in terms of supporting ergonomics, it's important to remember that it is neither necessary nor sufficient for that. You still need to take breaks, stretch, exercise to maintain muscle tone, set up your desk and monitor for correct posture, and ration your time in the chair.

I can for sure see arguments in terms of creating less waste, reducing the effort to achieve good ergonomics, etc. But I'm gonna (very) respectfully disagree with TenementFunster here.

And buy the gamer chair.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 05:41

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

I thought the main thing with gamer chairs was that they were super marked up and you can find bland versions of the same chair for dirt cheap as they all come from the same OEM plant in China or somewhere out there.

At least that was the gist I got from the Gamers Nexus video.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 07:55

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

Lead out in cuffs posted:

And buy the gamer chair.

mods; this trash

# ? Feb 11, 2022 09:05

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

CyberPingu posted:

I thought the main thing with gamer chairs was that they were super marked up and you can find bland versions of the same chair for dirt cheap as they all come from the same OEM plant in China or somewhere out there.

At least that was the gist I got from the Gamers Nexus video.

I think I found the video you're talking about, and it was more of a "many are from the same OEM plant" kind of statement that they make. And that's just generally true of a whole lot of things that are made in China these days, at least on the absolute cheapest end of the market. There are entire industries centred around making the cheapest possible copies of objects someone else designed, and offering custom branding on top of that.

But the "high-end"* gaming chairs do seem to have their own factories, design teams, etc, and to use higher-quality materials.

And they can be comfortable -- there are Youtube channels with ergonomics experts who try out a whole range of chairs, and they seem fairly impressed by the high end of the gamer chair market, at least relative to mid-tier office chairs. For the one I've ordered, I did try it out in person first, and it was both comfortable and adjustable where I needed it to be. I'm also paying less than one-fifth the price of an Embody.

*not in any way high-end relative to Steelcase, HM, etc

# ? Feb 11, 2022 09:44

isndl: May 2, 2012; I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Lead out in cuffs posted:

*not in any way high-end relative to Steelcase, HM, etc

Logitech begs to differ. :v:

# ? Feb 11, 2022 11:59

codo27: Apr 21, 2008

My Ikea Markus has held up fine, had it going on 6 years now. And I'm big as about 14 bears, and I feel mostly fine even with some past back issues. I used some left over bolts from a TV mount kit to replace the OEM arm mounting bolts to widen it out a little

# ? Feb 11, 2022 12:42

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

TenementFunster posted:

which is why i'm not framing it as "lol 2k is loose change, you poors" but one of the most important decisions you can make for your short term comfort and long term health. a great chair is just as important to somebody with an e-mail job as boots are to a logger; it's literally PPE. if your back hurts from sitting in whatever $50 Office Max piece of poo poo your rear end in a top hat boss provides, it isn't gonna get better as you turn 30, 40, 50, etc. $2k every 20+ years is goes a long way in preventing a potential lifetime of pain and many tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, which your rear end in a top hat boss also doesn't give a poo poo about. hell, Herman Miller has a 30 day return policy. Buy it locally from Design Within Reach or whoever (the only price for HM stuff is MSRP , minus the twice-yearly 10% off sale), try it for a few weeks. if you don't feel an improvement by week 2, return it and try something else. my back started feeling better the same day! life is too short to sit yourself to death so your rear end in a top hat boss can send his kids to USC.

i spent nearly two decades with an ankle problem that would keep me up at night, and a ~$40 Humanscale rocking foot rest cured it almost entirely within two weeks. i'll be an insane ergonomics advocate until I die now.

The thing is, you don't even have to spend $2k to get a good chair. As myself and others posted before here, you can get as-new HM or Steelcase chairs for ~$300 from a liquidator or an auction all day long. That's still not nothing if you already have a functional chair but much easier to justify for just about everyone with a computer job.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 15:40

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

How do you find those liquidation sites?

# ? Feb 11, 2022 16:30

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

quite literally on google, try typing in "office furniture liquidation stores"

# ? Feb 11, 2022 16:37

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

mobby_6kl posted:

The thing is, you don't even have to spend $2k to get a good chair. As myself and others posted before here, you can get as-new HM or Steelcase chairs for ~$300 from a liquidator or an auction all day long. That's still not nothing if you already have a functional chair but much easier to justify for just about everyone with a computer job.

yeah, if you already have a chair that works for you, don't go out and spend 2k on a chair just because some idiot on the internet told you to. however, if your poo poo is hosed up, and an expensive chair helps, absolutely spend that money and don't think twice. the fancy chairs not only have a supportive design, but all the adjustment to work for you, which is why they cost so loving much!

# ? Feb 11, 2022 20:16

Zarin: Nov 11, 2008; I SEE YOU

Also not to be pedantic but is anyone suggesting $2k chairs here?

I feel like I spent Too Much on my Cosm and that still clocked in at 3 digits (barely), buying new from an authorized dealer.

It's important to remember that you're not really intended to pay MSRP on these sorts of things. Yeah, maybe the HM site SAYS it costs $1500, but it doesn't actually. Or, doesn't have to, if you can find the correct distribution channel.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 21:39

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

Zarin posted:

Also not to be pedantic but is anyone suggesting $2k chairs here?

me, i am. i'm the poster suggesting anyone who sits down all day and has back pain try a $2,000 office immediately.

also herman miller is pretty brutal at enforcing MSRP. unless you actually "know a guy," you're paying MSRP except at the twice-yearly sales.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:34

Ror: Oct 21, 2010; 😸Everything's 🗞️ purrfect!💯🤟

Zarin posted:

Also not to be pedantic but is anyone suggesting $2k chairs here?

I feel like I spent Too Much on my Cosm and that still clocked in at 3 digits (barely), buying new from an authorized dealer.

It's important to remember that you're not really intended to pay MSRP on these sorts of things. Yeah, maybe the HM site SAYS it costs $1500, but it doesn't actually. Or, doesn't have to, if you can find the correct distribution channel.

I just went back and checked my emails from when I bought my Embody. It'll be 5 years old this spring.

First I emailed a local furniture store. They quoted me $1230 for a fully loaded Embody.

Then I contacted a place that mainly does workplaces and got a quote for $1077 for the Embody with the upgraded fabric and wheels. However, I remembered to ask if they had any small business deals and the guy said that they could sell their standard business spec Embody with a much deeper discount. It had the upgraded fabric but I could only get regular wheels, for $882 (I think it only came it black too, but that's what I was getting anyway). I just got the nice wheels on Amazon later for like 40 or 50 bucks.

Also, these are usually orders, so it took like 4-6 weeks to get. I was definitely discouraged when I got my first quote so I would highly recommend contacting as many local shops as possible to see if they have any special contracts with HM like I eventually found.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:51

Zarin: Nov 11, 2008; I SEE YOU

Ror posted:

I just went back and checked my emails from when I bought my Embody. It'll be 5 years old this spring.

First I emailed a local furniture store. They quoted me $1230 for a fully loaded Embody.

Then I contacted a place that mainly does workplaces and got a quote for $1077 for the Embody with the upgraded fabric and wheels. However, I remembered to ask if they had any small business deals and the guy said that they could sell their standard business spec Embody with a much deeper discount. It had the upgraded fabric but I could only get regular wheels, for $882 (I think it only came it black too, but that's what I was getting anyway). I just got the nice wheels on Amazon later for like 40 or 50 bucks.

Also, these are usually orders, so it took like 4-6 weeks to get. I was definitely discouraged when I got my first quote so I would highly recommend contacting as many local shops as possible to see if they have any special contracts with HM like I eventually found.

This. 1000% this. Business To Business pricing on ANYTHING is a loving scam. Corporations just throw money at each other for fun, it seems like.

It may take some luck to find something locally, but there are definitely Authorized Dealers that can get you some pretty deep "discounts", especially if you're willing to try and work with a sales guy and wait a bit. That's how I was able to get both an Aeron and a Cosm for less than 4 figures each, brand new, full warranty.

TenementFunster posted:

me, i am. i'm the poster suggesting anyone who sits down all day and has back pain try a $2,000 office immediately.

also herman miller is pretty brutal at enforcing MSRP. unless you actually "know a guy," you're paying MSRP except at the twice-yearly sales.

Respectfully disagree. I do wholeheartedly endorse your aggressive posture w/r/t purchasing quality ergonomic goods, but I am a firm believer that in this instance, one should not be paying MSRP unless their current resource situation does not mind paying more for less hassle.

For the Goon On A Budget, such as myself, it was well-worth the extra time to wheel and deal with a sales guy to save several hundred dollars.

Zarin fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Feb 12, 2022

# ? Feb 12, 2022 04:34

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

Ror posted:

Then I contacted a place that mainly does workplaces and got a quote for $1077 for the Embody with the upgraded fabric and wheels. However, I remembered to ask if they had any small business deals and the guy said that they could sell their standard business spec Embody with a much deeper discount. It had the upgraded fabric but I could only get regular wheels, for $882 (I think it only came it black too, but that's what I was getting anyway). I just got the nice wheels on Amazon later for like 40 or 50 bucks.

gr8 move, goon. i had the moon rover casters on mine until i went with glides for hardwood

# ? Feb 12, 2022 04:37

Zarin: Nov 11, 2008; I SEE YOU

TenementFunster posted:

gr8 move, goon. i had the moon rover casters on mine until i went with glides for hardwood

I just moved to a different apartment and I'm pretty sure I have the Wrong Wheels for the floor. I should probably fix that. Maybe. Someday.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 04:39

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

Zarin posted:

I just moved to a different apartment and I'm pretty sure I have the Wrong Wheels for the floor. I should probably fix that. Maybe. Someday.

glides are a must on hard floors. otherwise i�m just fighting newton�s third law the whole time

# ? Feb 12, 2022 05:43

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

The best chair I owned and am pissed I got rid of it last year was some £100 pleather "executive chair" off of Amazon called the Santana or something.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 09:27

Zarin: Nov 11, 2008; I SEE YOU

TenementFunster posted:

glides are a must on hard floors. otherwise i�m just fighting newton�s third law the whole time

Surprisingly, I don't roll around. It must be the texture on the floor maybe.

I can definitely tell that the casters are collecting dirt, though. Rollerblade wheels are probably the play. If I ever spring for 'em.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 09:28

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

quite literally on google, try typing in "office furniture liquidation stores"

huh that's strange, none of the office liquidators in western washington have any used chairs of the brands mentioned in this thread

even if I want a new one I gotta drive to seattle anyway to test them out, gently caress that poo poo

# ? Feb 12, 2022 22:13

Heavy Metal: Sep 1, 2014; America's $1 Funnyman

One thing is that it's tough to tell if you'll like the 1000+ dollar chair, and at a used place you may not have much of a return window. I got a Steelcase Criterion at one, didn't work out for me as I found out, out about 280 plus tax. I tried the Leap there which felt less supportive/comfortable for my back oddly enough, and I'd be out 700 plus tax if that one didn't work out.

So if I knew for sure my years of chair searching would be complete, I'd happily drop 1000 or 1400 or whatever. But it sucks knowing you might be stuck with an expensive thing that makes your back feel less good than some old Sears recliner, in my case. So keeping at it, but the higher the price, even at a reduced reseller price, more risk, it's a kooky thing in some ways.

Staples has a good return policy I found, at least they always took the chair back a month later, but they didn't have chairs that I liked.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 02:29

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; The Cooler King

yeah, your local craigslist �office liquidator� is just some guy so the return policy is �lol�

# ? Feb 13, 2022 04:11

dew worm: Apr 20, 2019

Torn between the markus or a gaming style chair like the RSP. IKEA is always a zoo but I�ll try to get there early to try it out. I�m thinking I�ll find a gaming chair more comfy though

# ? Feb 13, 2022 04:38

Eric the Mauve: May 8, 2012; Making you happy for a buck since 199X

For about a month, yeah

# ? Feb 13, 2022 04:40

dew worm: Apr 20, 2019

Yeah that kinda was the consensus on every review I just read

# ? Feb 13, 2022 04:55

Zarin: Nov 11, 2008; I SEE YOU

Heavy Metal posted:

One thing is that it's tough to tell if you'll like the 1000+ dollar chair, and at a used place you may not have much of a return window. I got a Steelcase Criterion at one, didn't work out for me as I found out, out about 280 plus tax. I tried the Leap there which felt less supportive/comfortable for my back oddly enough, and I'd be out 700 plus tax if that one didn't work out.

So if I knew for sure my years of chair searching would be complete, I'd happily drop 1000 or 1400 or whatever. But it sucks knowing you might be stuck with an expensive thing that makes your back feel less good than some old Sears recliner, in my case. So keeping at it, but the higher the price, even at a reduced reseller price, more risk, it's a kooky thing in some ways.

Staples has a good return policy I found, at least they always took the chair back a month later, but they didn't have chairs that I liked.

I think some of the online retailers like BOTD.com and whatnot have reasonably generous return policies (30 days or so), although you're probably paying closer to MSRP with them than a dealer.

If you were able to find a local dealer, though, I'd think you should be able to get a similar return window though.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 05:00

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# ? May 28, 2024 17:27

Heavy Metal: Sep 1, 2014; America's $1 Funnyman

Zarin posted:

I think some of the online retailers like BOTD.com and whatnot have reasonably generous return policies (30 days or so), although you're probably paying closer to MSRP with them than a dealer.

If you were able to find a local dealer, though, I'd think you should be able to get a similar return window though.

For me, the local one with a good selection (Joe's Discount Office Furniture) has this as the return policy: "all sales are final". If it has a defect they say they'll try and fix it or make it right somehow etc, but they're not taking returns for a chair that doesn't work out for your back essentially.

For sure there are options online too, though return shipping may be a hassle.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 05:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Computer chairs: the backbone of a good sit up.

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