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io_burn posted:Don't get me wrong, I hate Tesla and think anyone buying an electric car is an idiot, but I'm not sure a forum poll is representative of any kind of actual useful statistics. If the internet has taught us anything, it's that forums are basically just collections of malcontents looking to complain. If nothing is wrong with your car, like the vast majority of cars, gas or electric, out there, you're not going to be like "Hmm let me sit around and making sure no one is dishonoring the vehicle I have online." The vocal minority is a thing, but, again, this doesn't excuse Tesla of being a terrible company run by a maniac with zealot fanboys. Consumer reports apparently dropped their recommendation due to reliability issues Mine has been fine but i have a friend who had a nightmare with his - touchscreen kept crashing, door handles broke, headliner fell off, etc. It is definitely not a 75,000 car in terms of quality though. When it was in the shop, my rental Hyundai had better build quality which was pretty lol
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Jun 3, 2016 19:58
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io_burn posted:I think we can all just agree that Tesla is the worst and anyone who is excited about EV's is objectively a loving moron.
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Jun 3, 2016 19:58
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I'd gently caress an electric car.
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Jun 3, 2016 20:18
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Dem Bones posted:All that graph shows me is that the mean time to failure is probably >= 1.5 years? (since the post was made November 2015) Or that people who frequent Tesla forums are more likely to have early‐run cars.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:07
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Boten Anna posted:I'd gently caress an electric car. No exhaust pipe tho??
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Jun 3, 2016 21:42
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Mange Mite posted:No exhaust pipe tho?? It's more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb95eg1IbVo Only with Elon's curated Spotify playlists rather than a space piano.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:53
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Mange Mite posted:No exhaust pipe tho?? Currently one of my biggest complaints, I hope Elon adds a virtual representation of his mouth in the next release to correct this oversight. In other news, my car is a horrible unreliable wreck. Can you believe ONE of the usb ports stopped working yesterday!?!?! I was indignant at taking my SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND dollar automobile to the dealership; who then proceeded to waste 10 minutes of my time while a replacement unit was installed.... Sigh, back to the Porsche, these newfound car companies have no idea what they are doing!
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Jun 3, 2016 22:27
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Ola posted:A hydrogen commut-o-matic, I really like this. Interesting business model as well. (particularly his point from 11:50, which is so difficult for robber barons to understand) It's from a few pages back but I wonder what the NCAP rating on this would be.. Death trap / 5? I wonder how the mileage would be after getting it up to modern standards.
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Jun 3, 2016 23:07
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I think you need to relax
Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 04:18
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http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104237_vw-to-make-big-electric-car-commitment-battery-factory-too It seems VW is contemplating building a battery factory like Tesla's. As to what they're planning on doing with all those batteries (obviously, they'd need something better than the e-golf ), they'll be aiming to produce an electric car which should be just about fully competitive with gasoline: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-plans-radical-new-electric-vehicle-2019 And Tesla is having some grand opening event for their battery factory on July 29: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104196_tesla-gigafactory-grand-opening-event-to-be-held-july-29 The only way to get a ticket was some contest related to their referral program, which totally blows - if there were some way for people to just buy them, I'd seriously consider going.
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Jun 5, 2016 22:42
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Cockmaster posted:The only way to get a ticket was some contest related to their referral program, which totally blows - if there were some way for people to just buy them, I'd seriously consider going.
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Jun 6, 2016 05:53
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roomforthetuna posted:Do you win the factory at the end of the tour if you're the one ticket-winner who didn't turn into a blueberry or piss in the battery acid or whatever?
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Jun 6, 2016 06:48
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Tesla batteries don't have acid your troglodyte. They burst into flames when they contract water.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:12
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Elephanthead posted:Tesla batteries don't have acid your troglodyte. They burst into flames when they contract water. Does it matter if the water is yellow?
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Jun 6, 2016 17:02
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Only if you fall off the electricity boat into the rocket fuel river,
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Jun 6, 2016 17:30
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blindjoe posted:Only if you fall off the electricity boat into the rocket fuel river, Oompa Loompa Doodley Do, You Pissed In The Lithium, Too Bad For You, Oompa Loompa Singable Song, Now There's A Chemical Fire On Your Schlong
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Jun 6, 2016 19:40
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Boten Anna posted:Oompa Loompa Doodley Do, 
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Jun 6, 2016 19:44
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Boten Anna posted:Oompa Loompa Doodley Do, 
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Jun 6, 2016 19:47
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Elephanthead posted:Tesla batteries don't have acid your troglodyte. They burst into flames when they contract water. Does the manufacturing process lend itself to a high level of automation? I've been looking to get into robotics, and I was wondering if their battery factory might have some interesting engineering jobs any time soon.
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Jun 7, 2016 01:16
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Do any of you autists talk to people at the supercharger? I find sitting in my car on my phone to be more practical/less annoying than standing outside with owners talking about our loving SEVENTY FIVE GRAND cars and their quirks.
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Jun 7, 2016 02:55
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The Sicilian posted:Do any of you autists talk to people at the supercharger? I find sitting in my car on my phone to be more practical/less annoying than standing outside with owners talking about our loving SEVENTY FIVE GRAND cars and their quirks. I actually had no idea people did this
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Jun 7, 2016 03:01
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I chat with people sometimes, but it's rarely about the cars (exceptions when the X was new, when Autopilot came out, etc.). People are often on trips that it's fun to hear about, or have questions about the area. If you don't want to talk about your 70D you could change the subject, perhaps. I also talk with people on public transit and airplanes, and introduce myself to people I don't know at parties.
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Jun 7, 2016 03:25
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Subjunctive posted:
Account sharing trap sprung, clearly not a goon.
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Jun 7, 2016 11:16
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I talked to a nerdy guy and his daughter while I was Chademo charging my leaf. More money more problems. We chatted about how stupid Tesla buyers were and showed each other the bag filled with 500 $100 bills we drive around with.
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Jun 7, 2016 14:04
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Elephanthead posted:I talked to a nerdy guy and his daughter while I was Chademo charging my leaf. More money more problems. We chatted about how stupid Tesla buyers were and showed each other the bag filled with 500 $100 bills we drive around with. I was busy enjoying my vault of money I have from not paying for chademo on my leaf 
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Jun 7, 2016 14:21
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Subjunctive posted:I chat with people sometimes, but it's rarely about the cars (exceptions when the X was new, when Autopilot came out, etc.). People are often on trips that it's fun to hear about, or have questions about the area. If you don't want to talk about your 70D you could change the subject, perhaps. It's inescapable, an X pulls up and these people are oohing and ahhhhing, and the conversation spins right back to Tesla. The people I have encountered want to suck Elon off more than this thread's posters. I also find the attendants handy, legit had a grown man try to cut me for a charger. The attendant had to sheepishly walk over and explain that I had been waiting longer.
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Jun 7, 2016 16:24
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Eh, doesn't seem any better or any worse than other car brand nerds, but I suppose it's inescapable since charging is a necessity.
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Jun 7, 2016 16:59
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The Sicilian posted:
I'm curious how this is going to work in the near future EV utopia when everyone is visiting huge charging bays several times on a long highway trip. Gas pumps are visited rarely enough and take short enough time that it doesn't matter that much if someone takes your place.
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Jun 7, 2016 17:08
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Ola posted:I'm curious how this is going to work in the near future EV utopia when everyone is visiting huge charging bays several times on a long highway trip. Gas pumps are visited rarely enough and take short enough time that it doesn't matter that much if someone takes your place. The BMW 535/550 only have a range of 444/370 miles, so the current crop of electrics only have half of the range of the equivalent gasoline car. You also can't fill your gasoline car up in your garage, so i would imagine most people would have to visit a charging station less often than they visit a gas station now. Once there are enough electrics on the road, they will support charging stations which don't have to be designed like a gas station with pumps and nozzles. They can just be parking spots around a convenience store, each with a charger. Not even a convenience store, a restaurant, a shoe store, a mall. Your car will be charged while you're doing what you regularly do. You also won't have to charge everywhere you go, so even if 1 of the 5 places you could spend half an hour at has charging stalls, you could charge there and be set for another week. Once charging is readily available and visible, range anxiety should dissapear and you really won't give a second thought to charging or maintaining a full battery. Powershift fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 17:49
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Powershift posted:The BMW 535/550 only have a range of 444/370 miles, so the current crop of electrics only have half of the range of the equivalent gasoline car. You also can't fill your gasoline car up in your garage, so i would imagine most people would have to visit a charging station less often than they visit a gas station now. Once there are enough electrics on the road, they will support charging stations which don't have to be designed like a gas station with pumps and nozzles. They can just be parking spots around a convenience store, each with a charger. Not even a convenience store, a restaurant, a shoe store, a mall. Your car will be charged while you're doing what you regularly do. I also think there's going to be kind of a cycle where we'll go back to the rapidly disappearing early days of trying to attract EV havers by having free charging at your establishment once quick charging settles on a standard and especially as solar panels and batteries get cheaper to the point where having a quick charger using electricity from the solar panels that are generating more rooftop electricity than they know what to do with since their powerwalls are always near capacity anyway is a cheap way to get more foot traffic. We've got a ways to go before that might happen and there's still a critical lack of public charging infrastructure but this is a problem that's getting solved rather quickly.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:11
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Boten Anna posted:I also think there's going to be kind of a cycle where we'll go back to the rapidly disappearing early days of trying to attract EV havers by having free charging at your establishment once quick charging settles on a standard and especially as solar panels and batteries get cheaper to the point where having a quick charger using electricity from the solar panels that are generating more rooftop electricity than they know what to do with since their powerwalls are always near capacity anyway is a cheap way to get more foot traffic. And really, charging at a mall with industrial electricity rates, the machines could probably be coin op. 6-8 cents/kwh, pop in a few loonies, and it's good for 50kwh. Or if you're american, mash your cumpled up dollar bill up against the face of machine and hope it does something.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:15
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Powershift posted:Once there are enough electrics on the road, they will support charging stations which don't have to be designed like a gas station with pumps and nozzles. This is a good point and will work well in your day to days. Home charging, work charging, mall charging. It plays in to the principle of "charge when you can, not when you must". They don't need to be fast charging either, since you're there for a while. But for long range travel, you're on the highway, you don't want to go searching for a mall just to get some juice. It might be some sort of travel plaza with a big charging bay and you'll be parked 20-40 minutes while going to the bathroom, getting a burger etc. I don't think they'll put up enough high-kW bays for nobody to be in a queue at some point. A megawatt of site power could still only run 20 bays of 50 kW each. So there has to be some sort of system so people don't take up charging spaces for hours. You might get a notification on your phone and you'd have to go move your car away from the charger and over to the parking space mid-burger or something.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:28
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Powershift posted:And really, charging at a mall with industrial electricity rates, the machines could probably be coin op. 6-8 cents/kwh, pop in a few loonies, and it's good for 50kwh. Yeah, and at those rates doing maintenance on and collecting and accounting from the actual or proverbial coin slot (I swear I've spent as long on the phone with charging networks hammering out minor account issues as I've spent actually charging gently caress you evgo) might make the whole endeavor less lucrative than as a way to attract customers. One of the keys to this is quick charging as level 2 takes 4-8 hours to fill up and nobody wants people hanging out that long (nor would I want to stay at a [strip] mall/restaurant that long) whereas ~30 minutes is the perfect length to bait you into buying more than enough [extra] stuff to more than cover the cost of charging. The only thing I don't know is if we'll figure out a quick charging standard AND how to supply it cheap enough for it to be worth it all around; I could see ChargePoint making a killing with their current business model in a future with ubiquitous EVs and the ability to install L3 charging at roughly the same cost as they're doing L2 now. Ola posted:This is a good point and will work well in your day to days. Home charging, work charging, mall charging. It plays in to the principle of "charge when you can, not when you must". They don't need to be fast charging either, since you're there for a while. But for long range travel, you're on the highway, you don't want to go searching for a mall just to get some juice. It might be some sort of travel plaza with a big charging bay and you'll be parked 20-40 minutes while going to the bathroom, getting a burger etc. I don't think they'll put up enough high-kW bays for nobody to be in a queue at some point. A megawatt of site power could still only run 20 bays of 50 kW each. So there has to be some sort of system so people don't take up charging spaces for hours. You might get a notification on your phone and you'd have to go move your car away from the charger and over to the parking space mid-burger or something. I do think that despite the people who seem to break when faced with having to have a car plugged into a thing longer than it takes to fuel up a gas car, the future of the American road trip is the lovely little towns that are mostly just gas stations and diners being upgraded to diners and rest lounges that give you a place to rest/eat/poo poo for a half hourish as your car charges. The diner might even hire the local teenager at minimum wage to attend to the cars and handle the queue when it's busy enough to require that. Boten Anna fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 18:37
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I just wish the destination charges for Teslas were faster. I routinely go to "The Ranch Laguna Beach," a country club/resort, to have a drink while the car charges if I'm going West Hollywood to Laguna. But the charger can only muster around 36 miles an hour charge, leaving me wishing for more supercharger availability.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:42
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If only there was some liquid that you could combust for long trips where refueling is inconvenient.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:42
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The Sicilian posted:I just wish the destination charges for Teslas were faster. I routinely go to "The Ranch Laguna Beach," a country club/resort, to have a drink while the car charges if I'm going West Hollywood to Laguna. But the charger can only muster around 36 miles an hour charge, leaving me wishing for more supercharger availability. Elephanthead posted:If only there was some liquid that you could combust for long trips where refueling is inconvenient. So he should pour his drinks on his EV and light it on fire? 
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Jun 7, 2016 18:46
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e: oops wrong thread
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Jun 7, 2016 18:54
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For fast charging to get to a better place, a common standard isn't really that important. Right now there are three fast DC charging standards. Tesla supercharger, CHAdeMO and Combo/CSS. Tesla can do 135 kW, CHAdeMO and Combo are catching up at around 50 kW but are talking about 150 kW in the near term, 350 kW in the longer term. While Tesla are doing their own thing, the remaining charging points can use the same station:  (CHAdeMO, Combo and Type 2 22 kW AC) The heavy poo poo is the power supply and AC to DC converter, adding a nozzle or two is just a cable, a plastic connector and some electronic gizmos inside which talk to the car. Sure it's better with only one nozzle, but it doesn't make a big difference, it's not two different supply chains like gas and diesel. A bigger bottleneck is what the cars themselves can gulp down. For fast charging speeds, you need either higher cell capacity or more cells. Tesla has enough cells so that while each cell can't be charged very much, you can charge a lot of them at the same time and add a shitload of range pr unit of time. A cell in a 24 kWh Leaf pack can be charged at the same rate, but because it has fewer cells it will not be able to charge the same amount of range. So big battery packs with active cooling needs to be present in more cars than just Tesla to be able to take the 150 kW supply of a second gen of CHAdeMO. 6-7 years down the line, if we have 200 kWh battery packs and 350 kW charging, I think we're pretty much set. For personal travel at least.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:54
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Elephanthead posted:If only there was some liquid that you could combust for long trips where refueling is inconvenient. Believe me, I have a Porshe Macan S in Chicago for my time out there, I'm not some EV zealot. My Model S wouldn't be practical there. I can actually make the trip there and back in rush hour no problem on a single charge, the drinks and beautiful clubhouse is just a bonus to getting a top up. Ola posted:Words Very informative, thank you.
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Jun 7, 2016 19:07
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Ola posted:So big battery packs with active cooling needs to be present in more cars than just Tesla to be able to take the 150 kW supply of a second gen of CHAdeMO. 6-7 years down the line, if we have 200 kWh battery packs and 350 kW charging, I think we're pretty much set. For personal travel at least. Yeah exactly, ESPECIALLY if some miracle is pulled off with graphene or some poo poo that makes having 200+kwh battery packs cheap and able to charge quickly, though even with what we know we have, if I understand correctly that new coating they discovered for the metal in battery cells should pretty much eliminate any disadvantages to quick charging (faster degradation) and makes it so that the sticker size of the battery pack remains consistent for years. 200 kWh, if it could be done without a vast increase in weight or other range-impacting factors, would bring cars up to what like 500 mile range? That's better than gas, and at that point even with the existing charging network someone in a poo poo apartment that can't even L1 charge would only have to hunt down a place to plug in roughly every other week. Another thing we'll probably see at that point is SUVs being a thing again. I don't like to think about this as it has a lot of negative implications but not all futurism is positive  Not that they ever went away but they're hard to justify as a sensible long-term choice what with the instability of gas prices, but a pure EV with 300 mi range and at roughly the same cost as the current ones? All those dealerships crying that it isn't the 90s where they made a jillion dollars selling those things sure would be happy. "0% for 36 months and $2500 factory cash or home charger installation on the new Escalade EV. Distinctly Black. Just like all the others."
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Jun 7, 2016 19:37
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