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Feels Villeneuve posted:I haven't played SOP yet. Sorry. it's ok... for now
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May 3, 2024 15:36
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:33 |
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I liked SoP a good deal. It didn’t blow me away like some others but I had a good time with it and liked the characters more than I was expecting. Astos……… 
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May 3, 2024 15:36
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I will play it assuming I do not get Final Fantasyed out by the time I finish FF7 Rebirth which is entirely possible.
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May 3, 2024 15:38
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I want to make an online database on what "funny" english accent a translator decides to localize Kansai into. It has to be a tie between Brooklyn-ese and idk "vaguely cockney-ish".
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May 3, 2024 15:43
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I haven't played SOP yet. Sorry. I will never forget this
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May 3, 2024 15:43
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Also out of every moment I played in ff7remake this is the one where the subbed version is the most superior https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqHfCGrhcBg
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May 3, 2024 15:47
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jokes posted:I personally think SoP, like every Final Fantasy, is categorically trash if they don't have a playable female protagonist which is SoP's biggest shortcoming. I know what you're referencing, and I find it humorous.
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May 3, 2024 16:03
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FF16 billing itself the 'action combat' FF and then having less engaging action combat than both Stranger of Paradise and FF7R was pretty disappointing, in retrospect. SOP would've been super-great if it let you mix and match jobs with the superhigh affinity percentages way earlier (like, during the actual game, not postgame/DLC) as well as otherwise ditched the pointless trash-loot system.
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May 3, 2024 16:06
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bewilderment posted:FF16 billing itself the 'action combat' FF and then having less engaging action combat than both Stranger of Paradise and FF7R was pretty disappointing, in retrospect. That dev team is practically tied at the hip to that terrible loot system. I wish they'd knock it off since I generally enjoy their games except for that aspect but I have learned to accept that it's a core feature that's not going away. I'm just glad that in SOP slamming optimize works out well enough.
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May 3, 2024 16:12
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jokes posted:BD2 or Bravely Second? I liked Second more than 2 honestly. Second felt like they really went way out there with jobs having modifiers on spells and triple wielding and crazy stuff like that. I need to play octopath 2 for sure, I’m gonna have to travel a lot later in the year so I’m “saving” it up for planes
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May 3, 2024 16:14
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I liked Second more than 2 honestly. Second felt like they really went way out there with jobs having modifiers on spells and triple wielding and crazy stuff like that. Yeah. For its faults, Second is a more interesting video game than 2. 2 is "merely" above average in JRPG writing and pretty effortless in difficulty once you have your builds up and going. One can complain about declining whatever in RPG franchises, but Bravely is still in really good shape (I think so now in hindsight, again)
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May 3, 2024 16:22
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jokes posted:I personally think SoP, like every Final Fantasy, is categorically trash if they don't have a playable female protagonist which is SoP's biggest shortcoming. Oh, don't get it twisted, I do still think Jack as the protagonist is the game's weakest choice. He's just a big, angry nothing that I either don't feel anything for or actively dislike (don't be such a dick to Jed, man) and even now that I'm at the part of the game where he's actually asking questions I still wish someone else was the lead. Preferably Sophia, because she's actually thinking, and I broadly like when protagonists do that. Unfortunately, she's not really allowed to reach any voiced conclusions in the game as-is because the story still needs to move at Jack's speed.
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May 3, 2024 17:09
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I think the more grating aspect of the SoP cast is the hyper-masculinity, it's very offputting. The scant few female voices need to get some agency or opportunity to represent their intelligence and it's very repulsive that SoP, which has time and time again shown to take itself seriously, fails to meet even the simple, single standard of having a playable female protagonist. Every other mainline FF got that simple point and it's hard to like a game that so coolly and casually retreats from that concept, in favor of (as I said) offputting hyper-masculinity. And, most importantly, Jack is not represented as smart. Just gruff, angry, and a void of characterization. Which doesn't make sense since he's kind of the foundational villain of the FF series and all of SoP revolves around him, even though Sophia is right there. At least it gets a lot better if you can model swap with Sophia. And the mechanics are very frustrating. I am not going to engage with a system that I personally do not enjoy conceptually, if not mechanically. I don't want to see a Final Fantasy become an execution-heavy, hardness-oriented game with grades. I would rather the game be primarily, if not solely, built on intellectual/preparatory difficulty. So to that end, SoP is really a difficult game to enjoy because there's a right way to do it, and it's done in the action rather than as an intellectually engaging system. Personally, I would make (and prefer) a game with an exclusively smart, female cast who solves all the problems with clever thought and also it is purely menu-driven and has no concept of difficulty beyond thinking about it the right way -- my way. Final Fantasy could be that series, as evidenced by the fact that it's had females before and also menus and also every single one of them is piss easy. Since it isn't that, I cannot recommend playing a final fantasy that I don't enjoy (I don't enjoy any of them, or anything, ever). jokes fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 17:30
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Cleretic posted:Oh, don't get it twisted, I do still think Jack as the protagonist is the game's weakest choice. He's just a big, angry nothing that I either don't feel anything for or actively dislike (don't be such a dick to Jed, man) and even now that I'm at the part of the game where he's actually asking questions I still wish someone else was the lead. Preferably Sophia, because she's actually thinking, and I broadly like when protagonists do that. Unfortunately, she's not really allowed to reach any voiced conclusions in the game as-is because the story still needs to move at Jack's speed. I'm not sorry...this is dumb
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May 3, 2024 17:40
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Jack is easily the most nuanced and interesting character of the cast because the entire narrative and meta plot hinges on how much joy love and anger at the situation he's in he's hiding from.the rest and others. His relationships with the rest of the cast and his dark elf bf are the only thing that gives the rest of the cast any depth or chemistry. Without Jack the person none of the game works. But you'd have to finish the game or pick up on the heavy handed subtext in his constant bit about keeping the others from pondering on their memories.
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May 3, 2024 17:42
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Honestly I'm not really clear on the "Jack is dumb" thing. Jack never comes across as notably dumb to me, just really focused and straightforward with a side effect of plot stuff making him not realize certain things because he literally can't, and that applies to most of the cast. He's not a Super Genius or anything but he seems at least as reasonable as most FF protagonists to me. I wouldn't call Lightning, for example, smarter than Jack. (And they honestly have a fair bit in common.) Edit: Honestly most of the FF protagonists are pretty dumb. Firion - Easily tricked and gullible. Cecil - "Cecil, take this BOMB RING and go." Butz- Nice guy, kind of dumb sometimes but mostly average. Terra - Emotionally immature, seems otherwise average. Cloud - Look, I love the guy, I do, but he's no brain trust. Squall - Ironically probably the smartest main protagonist but has all the emotional maturity of a 16 year old orphan. Zidane - See Butz. Tidus - The man has taken so many Blitzballs to the head he wants to be a Blitzball when he grows up. Vaan - Exactly as smart as you'd expect a street kid to be. Lightning - Straightforward and to the point but not shown to be super clever. Noctis - Would have choked to death on a piece of plastic if Ignis wasn't around. Clive - Presented as shockingly intelligent truth be told, probably the only competition Squall has. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 17:42
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Oh, don't get it twisted
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May 3, 2024 17:45
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The emotional climax of the game, the bit that gives the totality of the plot any real weight is built entirely on and only works because of the character Jack is. Dismissing him because you can't read text and only get horny about ladies is just silly.
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May 3, 2024 17:46
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Wait, are we still doing a bit?
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May 3, 2024 17:47
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Jack is absolutely the heart of SoP's story and the story simply wouldn't work if it was about any other character
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May 3, 2024 17:49
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly I'm not really clear on the "Jack is dumb" thing. Jack never comes across as notably dumb to me, just really focused and straightforward with a side effect of plot stuff making him not realize certain things because he literally can't, and that applies to most of the cast. He's not a Super Genius or anything but he seems at least as reasonable as most FF protagonists to me. I wouldn't call Lightning, for example, smarter than Jack. (And they honestly have a fair bit in common.) I'm just trying to out-Cleretic Cleretic. Jack isn't dumb, and the plot accomplishes all its poo poo well. SoP is really, really good and part of that is because the devs apparently weren't "in" on the joke and ended up making a very sincere story. Also one of the best combat systems if you're a person who likes fun. The treatment of Astos, the companions, Jack's backstory and justification for everything was honestly really cool and good. Canon or not, they set out to do a thing and they did it with the plot. And then, separately, they made a really good Nioh-like that, unfortunately, people think should be Souls-like. It also has a refreshing take on each of the FF jobs.
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May 3, 2024 17:49
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jokes posted:Jack jokes posted:my way.
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May 3, 2024 17:49
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Jack is the one who came up with the plan to manipulate himself into becoming Chaos in order to strike back at Lufenia, so he's smart enough to invent a Kazushige Nojima plot twist, but he also thought he'd be able to remember Astos just by trying really hard, so he also believes in the power of friendship the most out of any of them.
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May 3, 2024 17:51
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Alxprit posted:Wait, are we still doing a bit? in all sincerity, I find it hard not to love a Final Fantasy game if it's simply trying to entertain me, which is like.. almost all of them?
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May 3, 2024 17:58
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Bongo Bill posted:Jack is the one who came up with the plan to manipulate himself into becoming Chaos in order to strike back at Lufenia, so he's smart enough to invent a Kazushige Nojima plot twist, but he also thought he'd be able to remember Astos just by trying really hard, so he also believes in the power of friendship the most out of any of them. Jack is all about BFFs Both Friends and Fists
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May 3, 2024 18:08
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ImpAtom posted:Zidane - See Butz. This is the only one I disagree with. Zidane is very street-smart and always seems to have a plan for any situation. He also knows a good bit about the world around him. I'd argue he's on the level of Squall, where the main thing holding both back is emotional immaturity, which of course makes sense since both learn to grow up during their journeys (Squall learning to form bonds with people, Zidane to take things more seriously). Otherwise, yeah, many FF protags are really dumb. It's amazing how inept characters like Cecil really are at achieving anything.
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May 3, 2024 18:57
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jokes posted:I'm just trying to out-Cleretic Cleretic. Jack isn't dumb, and the plot accomplishes all its poo poo well. I love to think about what SoP could've been like if the devs had intentionally been making jokes instead accidentally making Jack funny in how straight he plays things compared to everyone else.
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May 3, 2024 19:05
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SoP also has, by far, the best and coolest implementation of Jump in the series.
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May 3, 2024 19:10
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Jack is extremely not dumb but that’s not really something the game shows you directly until fairly late IIRC. Anyway they should have let him kiss his dark elf bf
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May 3, 2024 19:19
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Harrow posted:Jack is extremely not dumb but that’s not really something the game shows you directly until fairly late IIRC. Lufenians put kiss features into the strangers' fists
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May 3, 2024 19:20
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jokes posted:Lufenians put kiss features into the strangers' fists This would explain a lot actually
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May 3, 2024 19:27
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Mega64 posted:This is the only one I disagree with. Zidane is very street-smart and always seems to have a plan for any situation. He also knows a good bit about the world around him. I'd argue he's on the level of Squall, where the main thing holding both back is emotional immaturity, which of course makes sense since both learn to grow up during their journeys (Squall learning to form bonds with people, Zidane to take things more seriously). Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 3, 2024 |
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May 3, 2024 19:45
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I can't even think of many actually dumb protagonists. Like, Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates is the closest I can come up with, and even then both versions of them would work just fine if they could actually commit to the 'Evil family sycophant' route or the 'I'll pretend to be a monster working for them to backstab them once I've shown them that our father is some kind of monster' route. But the game itself is already not written very well so I can't really say that counts.
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May 3, 2024 19:57
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RareAcumen posted:I can't even think of many actually dumb protagonists. Like, Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates is the closest I can come up with, and even then both versions of them would work just fine if they could actually commit to the 'Evil family sycophant' route or the 'I'll pretend to be a monster working for them to backstab them once I've shown them that our father is some kind of monster' route. But the game itself is already not written very well so I can't really say that counts. I love Ichiban Kasuga with all my heart but the man has exactly three brain cells and two of them are devoted exclusively to Friendship.
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May 3, 2024 20:02
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I feel like Tidus is genuinely not very smart, and this is actually relevant in his case because he's inclined to just plain refuse to think about things that don't make sense to him, which in his particular situation turns out to be correct because smarter people are telling him things that are evil and wrong, and so ignoring them is the right call.
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May 3, 2024 20:14
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Clive is perfect in every way.
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May 3, 2024 20:14
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It's kind of a shame Squall is the main MC of FFVIII because Laguna would totally count. He's very clearly a shounen Idiot Hero. He really has no clue at any time what he's doing but through sheer guts and charisma, he prevails. He's the most clear cut "intentionally written to be dumb" JRPG hero I can think of but he's not the main protagonist.
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May 3, 2024 20:16
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Mega64 posted:This is the only one I disagree with. Zidane is very street-smart and always seems to have a plan for any situation. He also knows a good bit about the world around him. I'd argue he's on the level of Squall, where the main thing holding both back is emotional immaturity, which of course makes sense since both learn to grow up during their journeys (Squall learning to form bonds with people, Zidane to take things more seriously). this makes me appreciate how worldly the Tantalus bunch really are. when they crash-land in the Evil Forest and encounter parasitic plant monsters, Blank has an antidote and a map ready to go. Marcus is trustworthy enough to send alone to source and acquire a remedy for Blank's petrification. Cinna makes good coffee Mega64 posted:Otherwise, yeah, many FF protags are really dumb. It's amazing how inept characters like Cecil really are at achieving anything. Cecil was the head of Baron's main military force and master of a secret, kind of evil school of swordsmanship. he's not inept, he's just a little melodramatic because a lot of melodramatic things are happening around him that he blames himself for not stopping. I'm trying to think of something dumb he does that isn't just him acting appropriately for the kind of drama he's in
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May 3, 2024 20:36
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Cecil's #1 Defender has logged on
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May 3, 2024 20:37
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The bomb ring thing is definitely stupid
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May 3, 2024 20:41
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