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And apparently it's all ArsenalFanTV's fault https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/22/arsene-wenger-arsenal-hurtful-supporters He's going to end up managing France after they flop at the World Cup, isn't he
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Apr 22, 2018 18:31
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It's a little sad to think that if Arsenal didn't decide to play Property Brothers right before the global recession and then sell majority stake to the cheapest oval office of an owner things might've gone better for Wenger.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:50
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:It's a little sad to think that if Arsenal didn't decide to play Property Brothers right before the global recession and then sell majority stake to the cheapest oval office of an owner things might've gone better for Wenger. Kroenke is the reason I’m worried about the future. Someone else might do better than Wenger for a few years but I seriously doubt it was Wengers fault that Arsenal spent years selling the good players and bringing in budget alternatives
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Apr 22, 2018 19:58
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Don't know if that would have changed anything. Dein getting forced out and giving Wenger full autonomy was probably the big turning point. Losing Pat Rice didn't help either. But the alternative to losing Dein would have been getting Usmanov as majority owner.
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Apr 22, 2018 19:59
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fart simpson posted:Kroenke is the reason I’m worried about the future. Someone else might do better than Wenger for a few years but I seriously doubt it was Wengers fault that Arsenal spent years selling the good players and bringing in budget alternatives No, the problem with Kroenke is that he’s completely and totally hands off. I’m not convinced he could name more than two or three Arsenal players.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:08
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Mo won PFA Player of the Year
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Apr 22, 2018 21:22
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EvilHawk posted:Mo won PFA Player of the Year Gonna be honest, that's some poo poo. He's scored a lot of goals but de Bruyne was the heart of the most dominant team in ages. Edit: Looks like Sane won the young player of the year award so that's nice for him. pik_d fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 21:23
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pik_d posted:Gonna be honest, that's some poo poo. He's scored a lot of goals but de Bruyne was the heart of the most dominant team in ages. I think that's harmed De Bruyne to be honest. City are fantastic almost everywhere, so it's kinda hard for him to stand out. IIRC he's not breaking any records for assists or anything which makes the headlines. Meanwhile Salah is clearly our best player, he's the best striker in the league by a country mile (and possibly the best in the world), he has that individual draw.
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Apr 22, 2018 21:28
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EvilHawk posted:I think that's harmed De Bruyne to be honest. City are fantastic almost everywhere, so it's kinda hard for him to stand out. IIRC he's not breaking any records for assists or anything which makes the headlines. Meanwhile Salah is clearly our best player, he's the best striker in the league by a country mile (and possibly the best in the world), he has that individual draw. Yeah but he's already going to get the golden boot, why make the player of the year basically the same thing? Also I disagree, he has stood out as City's most important player.
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Apr 22, 2018 21:29
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Brony Car posted:Why did Wenger and Keown fall out? Never seen anything definitive though Keown said recently that he wanted to use video footage of past performances to show players errors in their positioning, stances etc but Wenger wasn’t having any of it. Wenger argued that showing players footage of their mistakes would create a bigger psychological problem whereas Keown argued that not showing them was compounding the problems.
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Apr 22, 2018 21:31
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pik_d posted:
He doesnt get a trophy for this
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Apr 22, 2018 21:59
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pik_d posted:Yeah but he's already going to get the golden boot, why make the player of the year basically the same thing? It's not just the golden boot, he's equaled the 38-game scoring record and is likely to break it since Liverpool still have three games to play. That's beyond just "scored a lot of goals" territory. The fact that he also played a key role in Liverpool knocking City and de Bruyne out of the CL definitely helps too.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:02
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pik_d posted:Yeah but he's already going to get the golden boot, why make the player of the year basically the same thing? In years when someone smashes records (e.g. Salah, Kane etc.) the golden boot and the POTY are pretty much always unified. Goals make headlines.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:10
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De Bruyne will feel hard done by to not win POTY but Salah has been much better in the second half of the season and that's what stays in everyone's mind. Overall they've probably had just as good a season as each other.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:28
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Bogan Krkic posted:De Bruyne will feel hard done by to not win POTY but Salah has been much better in the second half of the season and that's what stays in everyone's mind. Overall they've probably had just as good a season as each other. It all evens out in the end.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:41
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It's a funny old game
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Apr 22, 2018 22:45
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Much as it pains me to say, Salah probably deserves whatever plaudits and awards come his way this season and Klopp deserves credit for getting this sort of performance out of him. It's really fine margins, too. No one (including me) is going to argue Pogba has had a good season, yet he's only behind the likes of De Bruyne in assists, in far fewer games played.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:14
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Bacon Terrorist posted:Never seen anything definitive though Keown said recently that he wanted to use video footage of past performances to show players errors in their positioning, stances etc but Wenger wasn’t having any of it. Wenger argued that showing players footage of their mistakes would create a bigger psychological problem whereas Keown argued that not showing them was compounding the problems. jesus christ lol
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Apr 23, 2018 01:21
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Ninpo posted:Much as it pains me to say, Salah probably deserves whatever plaudits and awards come his way this season and Klopp deserves credit for getting this sort of performance out of him. Pogba has five fewer assists and three fewer goals than De Bruyne. Sane and Silva also have more assists than Pogba. To your point, Pogba has played 11 fewer games than De Bruyne.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:26
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In Wenger’s defense, he wouldn’t have time to manage the team if he had to show Mustafi video of all of his mistakes.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:29
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Revisionism is inevitable, but there was infrastructure around Arsene's successes that played a big part and to make reference to a recent post I made about Mourinho, Wenger's legacy will always be tarnished by his failure to adapt to the changing face of football. Once rivals caught up on "maybe players shouldn't drink a lot of alcohol" and "there's value out there in them foreign markets" coupled with not sharing his distaste for spending money/defending, the cracks started to show and have only widened the longer he's stuck with his stubborn stance on how football should be. Wenger doesn't have a steely mean streak, I'd argue that him not keeping/recruiting leaders akin to Adams and Viera, when Viera left the club, has been far more damaging to Arsenal's successes than the move to the Emirates was. He's had money in recent seasons and the same mental fragility has remained, whether it's been physically running out of steam towards the business end of a season, or mentally collapsing when pressure is on. Arsenal's best league finish in recent memory was 2nd, achieved when teams like City, Chelsea and United all conspired to be poo poo enough to hand Leicester a league title. Ninpo fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 01:53
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Shrapnig posted:Pogba has five fewer assists and three fewer goals than De Bruyne. Sane and Silva also have more assists than Pogba. Sane and Silva would be "the likes of De Bruyne" that I could not be arsed to go and look up. Being single figures behind the arguable king maker in that City team in 11 fewer appearances is admirable and probably tells its own story. My actual point was about how fine the margins are, because even given that productivity, Pogba has not had what anyone would consider "a good season". There are probably other stats like "mistakes leading to a goal", or if they're even tracked, "player defending against assist maker/scorer" that show Pogba up in a harsh light. The Ramble I think mentioned it being interesting to see individual players' distance covered in a match (they only make public team distance covered as a whole/average per player), Pogba certainly carries an air of the Ozil about him when United aren't in possession. Ninpo fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 01:58
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Ninpo posted:"there's value out there in them foreign markets" This is kind of a non-starter because the restriction on foreign players in Europe hamstrung teams like Manchester United who had several pivotal players from outside of England in the early 90s but could only play three at a time, and was lifted the same year Wenger took over at Arsenal.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:06
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Shrapnig posted:This is kind of a non-starter because the restriction on foreign players in Europe hamstrung teams like Manchester United who had several pivotal players from outside of England in the early 90s but could only play three at a time, and was lifted the same year Wenger took over at Arsenal. How is it a non starter when Wenger was actually not hamstrung at all by his knowledge of foreign players, particularly French gems like Petit and Viera? Wenger came to England with that insight, for a time the rest were adapting and playing catch up.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:43
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If de bruyne had kept up his performances from the start of the season he'd have won POTY. Salah has maintained his and has been incredibly consistent in banging in goals against whoever Liverpool play. City without De Bruyne still win the league, Liverpool without Salah maybe don't even make the top 4
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Apr 23, 2018 06:40
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Loving Africa Chaps posted:If de bruyne had kept up his performances from the start of the season he'd have won POTY. Salah has maintained his and has been incredibly consistent in banging in goals against whoever Liverpool play. pretty much this I did enjoy Swansea for some reason giving him five seconds and three yards of space in his favourite shooting spot today though
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Apr 23, 2018 07:37
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Individual awards in football are pointless.
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Apr 23, 2018 11:09
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Eau de MacGowan posted:pretty much this That's the rules when you play the champions, right?
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Apr 23, 2018 11:37
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Shrapnig posted:This is kind of a non-starter because the restriction on foreign players in Europe hamstrung teams like Manchester United who had several pivotal players from outside of England in the early 90s but could only play three at a time, and was lifted the same year Wenger took over at Arsenal. I’d argue it’s a valid point because at the time Wenger was famed for signing these amazing players that were not on the radar for most teams. He had an advantage due to having managed all over the world and being obsessed with world football. However other teams obviously started investigating the same markets, today it would be very hard to pull the same trick. Even a mid-level non-achieving team in a minor European league has scouting knowledge that covers such markets now. Can you imagine people in England jizzing their pants about Thomas Lemar if he was around in 1996? Admittedly I was a kid back then but I don’t remember much hype about foreign teenagers plying their trade in foreign leagues back then, of course another factor these days is the internet and everything that brings with it.
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Apr 23, 2018 11:52
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Loving Africa Chaps posted:City without De Bruyne still win the league, Liverpool without Salah maybe don't even make the top 4 Given Silva's injury history and some of the goals KDB scored this year, I would say this claim is likely but not certain.
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Apr 23, 2018 12:40
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Bacon Terrorist posted:I’d argue it’s a valid point because at the time Wenger was famed for signing these amazing players that were not on the radar for most teams. He had an advantage due to having managed all over the world and being obsessed with world football. However other teams obviously started investigating the same markets, today it would be very hard to pull the same trick. Even a mid-level non-achieving team in a minor European league has scouting knowledge that covers such markets now. This is less to do with scouting and more agents hawking their wares all over the money leagues. Swansea's senior scouting system is almost entirely "players who have scored against us" and "players who the Ayew brothers' agent recommends". The club only employs scouts for development-level players. It's not unusual for top level clubs, and the right manager and backroom team can still make a huge impact via recruitment.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:02
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sassassin posted:This is less to do with scouting and more agents hawking their wares all over the money leagues. I see your point, I just think in contrast to Swansea there are a lot of clubs that did the Newcastle model of ‘buy a load of alright looking players from a certain league and see who plays well/can be sold for a profit’ which wasn’t a thing pre-Wenger and squeezed those talent pools a lot more in addition to the agents creaming everything in the search for better contracts.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:05
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Everyone's talking about assists like Salah doesn't have any to go along with his 31 goals.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:12
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Personally, I think player of the year should go to the best player, Mohamed Salah. Apparently its not that simple though?
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Apr 23, 2018 17:43
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The FA have decided that punching a player in the stomach isn't a red card offence.
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Apr 23, 2018 17:53
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EvilHawk posted:The FA have decided that punching a player in the stomach isn't a red card offence. That wasn’t a punch, it’s a term of endearment in Egypt
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Apr 23, 2018 18:02
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Strawman posted:Personally, I think player of the year should go to the best player, Mohamed Salah. Apparently its not that simple though? It's almost as if "best" isn't an objective measure of footballers and there are many attributes that people might weight differently? I dunno though give it to the guy with the biggest numbers.
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Apr 23, 2018 18:05
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De Bruyne is a Liverpool supporter so I bet he's v happy for Salah.
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Apr 23, 2018 18:07
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sebzilla posted:It's almost as if "best" isn't an objective measure of footballers and there are many attributes that people might weight differently? I dunno though give it to the guy with the biggest numbers. objectively, it should go to the player I like the most, which for the twelfth consecutive year is john o'shea
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Apr 23, 2018 18:29
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sebzilla posted:It's almost as if "best" isn't an objective measure of footballers and there are many attributes that people might weight differently? I dunno though give it to the guy with the biggest numbers. do you know how the PFA best player award is decided? e: hell, do you even know what the PFA is?
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Apr 23, 2018 18:41
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