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Who's at a lower low: Harry at the beginning of Disco Elysium, or Date after getting owned twice by Ota of all people e: I guess technically he's only ever gotten owned once but still Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 23:45
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 22:39 |
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This branch is pretty grim. Seems Ota actually made a huge difference in the other path. As I've mentioned previously, this was my first branch - the information gained from Pewter definitely colored my line of thinking going forward. So far, the killer's plan is proceeding mostly the same as in the Ota/Mizuki routes, with the exception that they weren't stopped this time. NeverHelm fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 6, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2020 00:40
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I was initially wondering if the Japanese government pulled some MKUltra poo poo six years ago from how cagey the agents were being about the original CK, but I wasn't expecting to get an explanation the very next episode. Shame the killer got Iris and Ota before things got desperate enough for Pewter to come clean about Michael Myers and Yoshikage Kira. One thing doesn't add up, though: that one flashback showed #89 as Hitomi's lover and Iris's stepfather, who, by all accounts, was very much a man who didn't need to kill to feel joy. Just when you think you've got an answer, more questions pop up.
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Jul 6, 2020 20:28
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That escalated quickly.  This is the "complete disaster" route, I guess.We know that it's So Sejima in the polar bear costume, but why would he kill Iris? There doesn't seem to be any connection between them. Hitomi and So do apparently know each other, so perhaps the nature of that relationship is the key to this mystery. I've been thinking a bit about Hitomi's role in this case, wondering if she might be responsible for (some of) the killings. It occured to me that Falco's escape might actually have been the main purpose behind murdering Shoko. Commit a murder in a way that resembles a series of unsolved killings from some years ago, and have Falco call the police and offer information on this new "serial killer". That gets him out of prison and into an interrogation room, which he can escape from with Pewter's help. Renju would be able to devise this plan because of his relationship with Pewter, but Hitomi could also do it. She and Renju are longtime friends, so she might well know about his relationship with Pewter, and her relationship with Falco would give her a motive. Speculating wildly here, but: suppose that Hitomi killed Shoko. Renju is her only connection to Pewter, and he won't go along with the plan willingly since he's being set up to take the blame for Shoko's murder -- Hitomi is threatening him somehow. He tries to contact Iris because he thinks she knows something he can use as leverage against Hitomi. In the first branch we saw, that failed -- Renju did reach Iris and took her to the Psync machine in the warehouse in Kabasaki district, but she got scared and ran off. Being out of options, he contacts Pewter and sets up Falco's escape. He makes another attempt to gain leverage by having Pewter kidnap Iris, but is thwarted by the A-Set Fanclub. In the other branch, though, he succeeded. He brought Iris to Kabasaki district and Psynced with her, learning something useful. (Something like this must have happened in this branch, since Iris' Somnium shows that she's been to the warehouse where the Psync machine is.) Renju confronts Hitomi at her home and refuses to help with Falco's escape, and she kills him for this. I think this fits with what we know, but it doesn't explain So's involvement at all. Separately from that, there's something going on with Date and Falco, but I can't quite figure it out. Date seemed to remember playing with Iris when she was younger (and Iris found him vaguely familiar), but that wasn't him -- it was Falco. Iris' Somnium seems to indicate that Date was the original serial killer, and that actually fits quite well with what we know. Picture this: So Sejima and Rohan Kumakura are longtime friends. Through their friendship, Rohan meets So's son (let's call him Kaname, Date's given name). Rohan and Kaname find that they have a common interest, and together they commit the original serial killings. When the bodies are discovered, the police eventually come close to discovering the killers. Something goes down that results in Kaname losing his memory and Rohan being hospitalised. So Sejima has enough influence with the police that he can get the investigation classified, keeping the killers' identity secret from the general public. Kaname gets set up with a false identity, and the disappearance of So's son is explained by stating that he has moved abroad. This explains why Date expected to meet Rohan at the Kumakura office, and why he reacted oddly to stabbing sounds and a frightened woman during So's Somnium. But again, the killer wasn't Date -- it was Falco. There's something here, I'm sure of it, but I can't tell how it all fits together.
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Jul 6, 2020 22:10
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New video! This time, we get to take part in the incredibly fun activity of getting to talk to the family members and friends of people that were just murdered. But we also get an absolute ton of interesting info.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:49
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Well this branch may be very bleak with plenty of deaths, but at least Pewter is a total bro and doesn't betray us this time!  On the flip side, Pewter's betrayal is a lot more surprising when you played this route first.
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Jul 9, 2020 03:47
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quote:If the truth got out, it would be a huge scandal for the police. People at the upper level were terrified of what might happen.  I don't think they had much to worry about at all considering how much they can get away with. 1234567890num posted:Well this branch may be very bleak with plenty of deaths, but at least Pewter is a total bro and doesn't betray us this time! I thought something was up with him at first, but having went down this route first, then Ota's and Mizuki's routes, I lost suspicion of him, then got surprised by his betrayal in Iris' route. Course the reasoning behind that explained why he didn't bother doing that in the left branch.
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Jul 9, 2020 04:13
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Nothing lifts the spirits like talking with two grieving mothers and a traumatized child before listening to a convicted assassin talk about his slide into vigilantism and hired killing. If it weren't for the psychological profile Pewter gave, I'd assume Falco just murdered those women at Rohan's request, but I still want to know why there's such a marked contrast between the two stories.
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Jul 9, 2020 04:43
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According to Pewter, the OCK is physically unable to feel love and affection. Which is exactly what #89 claims happened with Hitomi. Clearly, neither story is the whole truth. On the matter of Pewter's betrayal: Up until I got to that point myself, Pewter had been extremely helpful and, in this route, shared things even the Boss wasn't willing to tell me. I trusted him implicitly. Having him suddenly go behind my back like that for personal reasons was one of the game's coolest moments for me.
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Jul 9, 2020 07:29
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Looks like this is the route where we focus on the events six years ago, so that should be interesting. According to Falco, the attack on Hitomi was ordered by Rohan, and he wanted both Hitomi and Iris dead. That's odd -- they don't seem to have any connection to the Kumakuras, and what reason could a Yakuza gang have to kill a 12-year-old? Maybe it's just Rohan's attempt to sabotage Falco's exit from the gang. Or perhaps So is behind it, considering that he attempts to kill Iris in the present day (and in this branch, succeeds).
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Jul 9, 2020 13:44
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Gotta say I was hoping for more from the dramatic-sounding "Ota is linked to the Kumakuras" than "he must really hate those guys"
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Jul 10, 2020 00:26
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Polsy posted:Gotta say I was hoping for more from the dramatic-sounding "Ota is linked to the Kumakuras" than "he must really hate those guys" Yeah, that part's more like "tentative motive" than "smoking gun". At least the rest of the information is good.
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Jul 10, 2020 09:18
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I know Ota's terrible secret!!! he's a big nerd
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Jul 10, 2020 11:18
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New video! Let's Psync with #89 and see what we find. There's a very big reveal at the end, I'll say that much.
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Jul 12, 2020 14:36
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You progress in this somnium by getting rid of green stuff (book, painting, fan, liquid, plant, etc). The hint was that Aiba closed a green door in the opening cutscene, causing the membrane to shrink. Once you get rid of enough green stuff, the lock events (phone, eye, knock) will happen. Yeah, it's very obtuse. I got through this one on my first try purely on accident. At least there's no "gently caress you here's a mandatory 358/999 seconds action" in the end like Iris' first somnium.
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Jul 12, 2020 19:28
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Just when you think you've got a clearer picture of everything, something blocks your view of the window again. I assume Rohan barged in because he's a sadistic rear end in a top hat, but Boss is obviously the much stranger piece of the puzzle here. I feel like this has to do with those state secrets she's keeping so close to her chest.
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Jul 12, 2020 22:37
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Well then. It's been obvious for a while now that Boss knows something that she doesn't want to tell Date about, but I wouldn't have guessed that she was directly involved in the events six years ago. She hasn't been present for either interrogation of Falco -- in this branch she's just gone, and in the other she had been called away by someone higher up in the hierarchy. I wonder if that was actually true. Perhaps she doesn't want to talk to Falco for some reason.
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Jul 13, 2020 20:04
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New video! I think we need to have a chat with Boss about what her involvement with #89 is.
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Jul 15, 2020 11:42
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Boss solved the case! Nice work, Boss.
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Jul 15, 2020 13:52
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So... I keep bringing this up, but this was the first "ending" I saw. Naturally, I was really suspicious of Boss going forward. Boss killing someone does seem a bit... out of character considering what we've seen from her so far. But coming off #89's Somnium, it's clear she's keeping secrets.
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Jul 15, 2020 16:32
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It's easy to think she might be cleaning up loose ends somehow, but I sincerely doubt the game is going to run out of twists anytime soon.
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Jul 15, 2020 18:52
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NeverHelm posted:So... I keep bringing this up, but this was the first "ending" I saw. Naturally, I was really suspicious of Boss going forward. Same. I find it funny how the thread was super distrustful of Pewter on the left side, because that was my reaction to Boss. Her obstructing you from dealing with So in Mizuki route had a far more sinister undertone to me than most of the thread I bet. And for that matter it was easier to buy into the fact that Boss had it out for you on the right side routes. (Which helped cause Pewter's betrayal take me by surprise more.) And then So turned out to be the killer in Mizuki route, leaving me very confused, especially when Boss didn't try anything in that route. 
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Jul 16, 2020 13:32
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New videos!  Before we head down the only path remaining, let's check back in with #89's Somnium and see what we missed (spoilers: quite a bit) and take a look over our files.
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Jul 19, 2020 17:30
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Huh, the book at 19:50 is quite interesting: "Falco was in a bind, and turned to a trusted friend". Falco doesn't seem to have friends, so who could this be? Renju, maybe? We haven't heard much about his relationship with the Kumakuras. Also, a suggestion for the OP: It might be nice to have a separator reading "plot lock" after videos 31 and 64, similar to the "route end" separators. That way, all jumps to a different branch would be shown in the video list.
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Jul 19, 2020 20:27
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The people of Tokyo could have energy for centuries to come if only they could hook up Date's libido to their power supply.
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Jul 19, 2020 21:38
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New video! This is where the plot kicks into overdrive.
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Jul 22, 2020 09:36
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You just couldn't resist, could you Uchikoshi? Seriously, nobody would come up with that name on the spot. We could have saved a lot of trouble if we had known this earlier, Boss. Heck, not telling people that their job risks them getting bodyswapped almost seems illegal. But hey, "national security" trumps everything, right?
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Jul 22, 2020 10:40
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... ...okay then! No wonder this mystery is so difficult to figure out: people might not be who they appear to be. Looking at the timeline for the branch we just left, the Psync machine in Kabasaki district seems to have been used twice. Shoko is killed, then Renju and Iris go to Kabasaki, shortly after that Renju is killed, Iris and Ota run from the police and are separated when Ota stops at a store, Iris goes to So's house in Ota's van, the van continues to Kabasaki and then to the cold storage warehouse, Iris and Ota are killed. From this timeline, it's actually possible that Renju committed all four murders: the first as himself, the second as Iris, and the third and fourth as So. I say "Renju" here, but we can't even be sure that the person living as Renju Okiura is actually him -- the Psync machine in Kabasaki was stolen six years ago, meaning that some of the cast may have been switched back then. If Iris and Renju were switched, that would mean that Date Psynced with Renju, not Iris. That seems viable: the memories we got from the Psync were of the original serial killings and of So Sejima together with someone else, and neither of those seem to have anything to do with Iris. Also, let me just mention the obvious: Manaka Iwai is presumably Iris' biological mother. She was killed 18 years ago shortly after giving birth, meaning that her child would be around Iris' age, and Manaka and Iris look very similar. The missing right eye is an interesting detail -- it resembles the original serial killings, but those didn't occur until twelve years later. There's probably a connection somehow, but I have no idea what it is.
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Jul 22, 2020 20:11
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Ahahaha all-ice. Bless Uchikoshi, the madman I wonder if the second psync machine in the abandoned part of town can also do the swapping thing? Because iirc Iris has been there a few times in other timelines, which has massive implications for who actually killed Renju, and we haven’t touched on it in detail. Maybe the somnium we saw with animal murdering was not actually Iris’ mind but someone else? Like, maybe Renju swapped minds with Iris and killed her in his body and So knows this happened and is after Renju, hence him going after “Iris”. Edit: beaten with more detail, dang if the chain of murders (going by body of the killer) was actually one mind
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Jul 22, 2020 20:13
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Well that explains a lot!
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Jul 22, 2020 20:35
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Well, things just got a whole lot trickier. This might explain why Date can't recall a thing past six years ago: maybe some of the egg white didn't make it inside his new head.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:10
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:Edit: beaten with more detail, dang if the chain of murders (going by body of the killer) was actually one mind Honestly it would be the funniest possible outcome if Uchikoshi spent most of the game demonstrating that these apparent "serial killings" must have been committed by different people just so he could drop this reveal and say "gotcha, it was the same person after all".
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Jul 22, 2020 21:59
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Man, between the all-ice in this episode and an anagram that got solved in the Zero Time Dilemma thread, I'm fully topped off on Uchikoshi's ridiculous bullshit (i love this, i can't wait to see what happens next)
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Jul 22, 2020 23:40
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My "Oh gently caress off Uchikoshi" moment was when someone pointed out that the symbol for capital Delta looks like a triangle and the stage that you can kill him is called Triangle. Edit: Motherfucker this is not the ZTD LP thread. That's a ZTD spoiler. Ibblebibble fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 23:58
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For extra "oh crap": Consider the implications for this in the Mizuki/Ota branches.
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Jul 23, 2020 01:20
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Tau Wedel posted:From this timeline, it's actually possible that Renju committed all four murders: the first as himself, the second as Iris, and the third and fourth as So. I say "Renju" here, but we can't even be sure that the person living as Renju Okiura is actually him -- the Psync machine in Kabasaki was stolen six years ago, meaning that some of the cast may have been switched back then. You could trace that logic backwards another step or two and suggest two more possibilities along the lines of a single killer: - Shoko, rather than Renju, did it all, and the first murder was Renju in Shoko's body (then Iris in Renju's, etc.). - The killer is a third party who swapped with Shoko before the events of the game, and Shoko-in-another-body is most likely dead. The second option would, however, require a break from the killer's established MO of promptly displaying a corpse with a missing eye, but that's not impossible.
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Jul 23, 2020 05:43
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I find it funny that due to the way I ended up playing the game (Examining the photos, turning the dial, interacting with the oil drum first, and following Iris's commands) I never actually saw the plot lock that appears on Don't Believe Iris route.
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Jul 24, 2020 23:45
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New video! Let's take a peek into Hitomi's mind and see what we find.
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Jul 26, 2020 17:38
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Seems like the somnia on the dead Renju timeline has the philosophy of "You need a lot of time to do these stuffs, but here's your timies. Get to it  " While the somnia on the alive Renju timeline has the philosophy "There's a huge time sink at the end and the timies are all hidden. Better hope you found a good one!  "Also, it's easy to found Hitomi running around in circles if you're also running around in circles in the dark. Hooray for kindred spirits! 
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Jul 27, 2020 01:05
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 22:39 |
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1234567890num posted:Seems like the somnia on the dead Renju timeline has the philosophy of "You need a lot of time to do these stuffs, but here's your timies. Get to it All the Somnia really have kind of a gameplay identity, from what I can tell: SINKIN’ IN THE BRaiN (Date->Himself): No time limit PSYNCIN’ IN THE PaiN (Date->Mizuki): Time limit introduced but otherwise not unusual PSYNCIN’ IN THE VILLaiN (Date->So): Somnium divided into discrete areas, all Mental Lock hints are identical (“Make an escape path”) PSYNCIN’ IN THE MaiN 1 (Date->Iris): One puzzle, two solutions; all Timie previews are ??? (until/unless you Make Something Else) PSYNCIN’ IN THE MaiN 2 (Date->Iris): Extremely high object count/pentagram PSYNCIN’ IN THE VaiN (Date->Iris): Two completely different puzzles PSYNCIN’ IN THE SWaiN (Date->Ota): High average time cost per action (as a sign of Date and Ota’s poor compatibility) PSYNCIN’ IN THE SUSTaiN (Date->Mayumi): Most interactions and the Mental Lock hints are dialogue (“Why?”, etc.) instead of actions PSYNCIN’ IN THE CAPTaiN (Mizuki->Date): Certain actions alter the time cost of subsequent actions PSYNCIN’ IN THE CURTaiN (Date->#89): Nonlinearity and In Somniet Prisoner Object Interacts With You PSYNCIN’ IN THE MOUNTaiN (Date->Hitomi): What’s a Timie, can you eat it? (Basically no Timies anywhere)
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Jul 27, 2020 05:53
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